MD & DO Chances for another "Reinvention story"

[Dr Turkelton]

American citizen who is instate in Missouri with ties to Virginia and Michigan

• Graduated with a 2.9 from a top 25 International school. Sort of an upward trend (2.9, 2.0, 3.0, 3.7). Major in Human Biology with Physiology and Psychology minors.
• After graduating I took Orgo 1 and 2 and Physics 1 and 2 at an American school with A's in all of them.
• At an SMP where we take the same classes as med students (but not with them) with a 4.0 so far and that shouldn't change this semester
• I have an expiring MCAT score of 31. Retaking it june and am pretty confident I can get above a 36 considering I am averaging a 34 right now
• Should have 2 really good reference letters from SMP professors, along with a few average one from undergrad.

As far as EC's:

• 2 years as Head leader for Freshman Orientation
• 1 year House President on Residence Council
• 2 summers of Research in separate fields, one benchwork and one clinical-ish (Chart review, no Pt contact). no publications from either
• About 60 hours of Shadowing in various Specialties (IR, Radiology, Nephrology and FP)
• 9 months of volunteering at an afterschool center in a low income neighborhood. ( 3 hours/wk on average)
• Peer mentor for a bit.
• Recent EMT-B certification. Looking to start volunteering in the next few weeks.
• Currently volunteering at a free clinic taking vitals and Histories
• 1 summer working for various charities as a fundraiser
• 3 week medical mission trip
• A few minor jobs here and there

As for an explanation for my poor grades I don't really have a one. There was a personal issue I was dealing with my sophomore year when I got a 2.0 but I don't think I'll be disclosing it. The plan right now is to take full personal responsibility for my low grades and view them as a learning experience moving forward. The one thing I will hope to convey in my interviews and essays is the degree to which I have matured since the first few years of undergrad and that I am no longer the same person I was then.

Right now my school list is looking like this:

• Wayne State
• MSUCHM
• MSUCOM
• EVMS
• VCU
• Albany
• NYMC
• Drexel
• RFU
• Penn State
• Mizzou (instate)
• VT
• TCMC
• Tulane
• A handful of completely out of my league reaches (SLU,GWU, Georgetown, Case...)
• Still need to come up with a list of DO schools to apply to other than MSUCOM. Will likely be applying to around 10

I would love to hear some opinions on my application. I am leaning towards applying next cycle but am also considering spending another year taking undergrad classes while working at a 911 agency to improve my application.

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[Catalystik]

American citizen who is instate in Missouri with ties to Virginia and Michigan

• Graduated with a 2.9 from a top 25 International school. Sort of an upward trend (2.9, 2.0, 3.0, 3.7). Major in Human Biology with Physiology and Psychology minors.
• After graduating I took Orgo 1 and 2 and Physics 1 and 2 at an American school with A's in all of them.
• At an SMP where we take the same classes as med students (but not with them) with a 4.0 so far and that shouldn't change this semester
• I have an expiring MCAT score of 31. Retaking it june and am pretty confident I can get above a 36 considering I am averaging a 34 right now
• Should have 2 really good reference letters from SMP professors, along with a few average one from undergrad.

As far as EC's they are pretty cookie cutter:

• 2 years as Head leader for Freshman Orientation
• 1 year House President on Residence Council
• 2 summers of Research in separate fields, one benchwork and one clinical-ish (Chart review, no Pt contact). no publications from either
• About 60 hours of Shadowing in various Specialties (IR, Radiology, Nephrology and FP)
• 9 months of volunteering at an afterschool center in a low income neighborhood. ( 3 hours/wk on average)
• Peer mentor for a bit.
• Recent EMT-B certification. Looking to start volunteering in the next few weeks.
• Currently volunteering at a free clinic taking vitals and Histories
• 1 summer working for various charities as a fundraiser
• 3 week medical mission trip
• A few minor jobs here and there

As for an explanation for my poor grades I don't really have a one. There was a personal issue I was dealing with my sophomore year when I got a 2.0 but I don't think I'll be disclosing it. The plan right now is to take full personal responsibility for my low grades and view them as a learning experience moving forward. The one thing I will hope to convey in my interviews and essays is the degree to which I have matured since the first few years of undergrad and that I am no longer the same person I was then.

Right now my school list is looking like this:

• Wayne State
• MSUCHM
• MSUCOM
• EVMS
• VCU
• Albany
• NYMC
• Drexel
• RFU
• Penn State
• Mizzou (instate)
• VT
• TCMC
• Tulane
• A handful of completely out of my league reaches (SLU,GWU, Georgetown, Case...)
• Still need to come up with a list of DO schools to apply to other than MSUCOM. Will likely be applying to around 10

I would love to hear some opinions on my application. I am leaning towards applying next cycle but am also considering spending another year taking undergrad classes while working at a 911 agency to improve my application.

When you include the OChem and Physics A grades, are your cumulative undergrad cGPA and BCPM GPAs above a 3.0, as calculated by AMCAS? If so, I think you'll be less likely to get auto-screened out by school computers, so that your excellent SMP performance will be appreciated by human eyeballs at more med schools. A 34-36 MCAT score on retake will definitely help.

How many months of active clinical experience do you have? Do you continue to engage or plan to re-engage in some nonmedical community service?

 

[Dr Turkelton]

When you include the OChem and Physics A grades, are your cumulative undergrad cGPA and BCPM GPAs above a 3.0, as calculated by AMCAS? If so, I think you'll be less likely to get auto-screened out by school computers, so that your excellent SMP performance will be appreciated by human eyeballs at more med schools. A 34-36 MCAT score on retake will definitely help.

How many months of active clinical experience do you have? Do you continue to engage or plan to re-engage in some nonmedical community service?

Science gpa is like a 3.02, cGPA is 2.97. Unfortunately I will not have a chance to take anymore undergrad classes before applying Both are above a 3 if you include graduate grades. I am still volunteering at the after school center and just started at the Red Cross. In terms of clinical months it would probably be like 5 or 6?

 

[Catalystik]

Did you use an AMCAS GPA calculator since they give a different value to A, A-, B+, B, etc than many schools do, to be absolutely sure of your stats since you're so close to the line?

Based on your undergrad cGPA above, I'd suggest that if you are set on applying this coming season, and want your best shot at MD, you might consider either 1) limiting your applications only to schools that don't have an explicit undergrad cGPA cutoff of 3.0, 2) calling around in case an SMP will override the cutoff, or 3) considering an online class, if three more hours of A would get you over the hump. There a number of DO schools that won't cut off at 3.0.

Based on clinical ECs, I'm inclined to agree that your suggestion of waiting a year to beef up your Experiences is a good idea. A secondary advantage of this timeline would be more time to study for the MCAT.

 

[Dr Turkelton]

Did you use an AMCAS GPA calculator since they give a different value to A, A-, B+, B, etc than many schools do, to be absolutely sure of your stats since you're so close to the line?

Based on your undergrad cGPA above, I'd suggest that if you are set on applying this coming season, and want your best shot at MD, you might consider either 1) limiting your applications only to schools that don't have an explicit undergrad cGPA cutoff of 3.0, 2) calling around in case an SMP will override the cutoff, or 3) considering an online class, if three more hours of A would get you over the hump. There a number of DO schools that won't cut off at 3.0.

Based on clinical ECs, I'm inclined to agree that your suggestion of waiting a year to beef up your Experiences is a good idea. A secondary advantage of this timeline would be more time to study for the MCAT.

Thanks! I just plugged all my grades into a calculator and they are actually a bit lower than I thought. Not counting grad classes my uGPA and bcpm GPA are a 2.95. Counting grad they are a 3.1. I can take 8 hours of undergrad classes and both my uGPA's would be above a 3. Do you think it would be worth it delay my sending in my primary until late july if that means I can take summer classes and bump it up above a 3? If I do this I would also have about 100 more hours of clinical experience to include on my application as well.

 

[Catalystik]

1) Thanks! I just plugged all my grades into a calculator and they are actually a bit lower than I thought.
2) Not counting grad classes my uGPA and bcpm GPA are a 2.95. Counting grad they are a 3.1.
3) I can take 8 hours of undergrad classes and both my uGPA's would be above a 3. Do you think it would be worth it delay my sending in my primary until late july if that means I can take summer classes and bump it up above a 3?
4) If I do this I would also have about 100 more hours of clinical experience to include on my application as well.

1) Bummer!
2) Unfortunately, MD schools never combine the undergrad and grad GPAs, like AACOMAS does.
3) Assuming a good number of your school targets say they won't consider a sub 3.0 undergrad GPA no matter what: A late July submission means a 6ish week wait for verification. In mid-August, schools would get your entire application (if AMCAS isn't further behind than that again this year) which is leaning toward "Late" though not terribly so. You can pre-write all your Secondaries so you could turn them around quickly when invited to submit them, becoming Complete at every school by perhaps mid-September. The negative I see is that studying for the retake on the MCAT could be substantially impeded by taking science coursework and taking on mega hours of volunteering. And of course, applying later does put you to some disadvantage.
4) Eight months of clinical experience is still below the average listed of 1.5 years, but better than 6 months. If you decided to submit your application this year, you would have to live the next year as if you would need to reapply, which means continuing to boost ECs. It also means you'd have something substantial to report on Secondaries (if asked,) and to mention at interviews and within update letters (where permitted).

 

[Goro]

There are a number of schools that reward reinvention. Forget MI state MD schools is you're a MO resident. SLU might be doable, but Case other reach schools will appreciate the donations in the form of your app fess. Save your money and apply more strategically.

My suggested list

• MSUCOM
• EVMS
• VCU
• Albany
• NYMC
• Drexel
• RFU
• Penn State
• Mizzou (instate)
• TCMC
• Tulane
• Jefferson
• Temple

Tufts
BU
AT Still
KC-COM
LMU-DeBusk
MarionCom
CCOM
DMU
Wm Carey
KYCOM
LECOM
ACOM or OHCOM

 

[Dr Turkelton]

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Dr Turkelton]

Just got my MCAT score and I ended up with a balanced 38 (12/13/13). I've also started volunteering as an EMT for 50 hours a month and got a full time job as a lab manager in a very well known PI's lab. Any updated chances or school advice?

 

[gyngyn]

Just got my MCAT score and I ended up with a balanced 38 (12/13/13). I've also started volunteering as an EMT for 50 hours a month and got a full time job as a lab manager in a very well known PI's lab. Any updated chances or school advice?

You have the classic gpa/MCAT dissonance issue. Apply to all IS schools. Shoot for OOS privates with a median MCAT closer to 32.

 

[Goro]

Everything is encouraging but schools MIGHT want a full year of excellence out of that SMP.

Goro suggests

• Wayne State
• MSUCOM
• EVMS
• VCU
• Albany
• NYMC
• Drexel
• RFU
• Penn State
• Mizzou (instate)
• VT
• TCMC
• Tulane
• Case
• vanderbilt
• Tufts
• BU
• AT Still
• MUCOM
• CCOM
• DMU
• PCOM
• the Touros
• Western
• KCUMB

I think given your excellence in all your post-bac work, then the dissonance that my learned colleague gyngyn speaks of shouldn't be an issue. there are schools that value reinvention.

 

[Catalystik]

Just got my MCAT score and I ended up with a balanced 38 (12/13/13). I've also started volunteering as an EMT for 50 hours a month and got a full time job as a lab manager in a very well known PI's lab. Any updated chances or school advice?

Congratulations!

If you are set on applying this cycle with an undergrad cGPA and BCPM GPA less than 3.0, I think it would be well worth your while to check school websites or call admissions offices for evidence of hard computer-driven cutoffs that will keep eyeballs from appreciating your SMP accomplishments and excellent MCAT score, rather than blindly applying to schools and paying expensive Seondary fees where you have no chance at all.

Did you complete a 1-year SMP by now, and if so, what was the final GPA for the second term?

 

[Dr Turkelton]

Congratulations!

If you are set on applying this cycle with an undergrad cGPA and BCPM GPA less than 3.0, I think it would be well worth your while to check school websites or call admissions offices for evidence of hard computer-driven cutoffs that will keep eyeballs from appreciating your SMP accomplishments and excellent MCAT score, rather than blindly applying to schools and paying expensive Seondary fees where you have no chance at all.

Did you complete a 1-year SMP by now, and if so, what was the final GPA for the second term?

Thanks!

I did complete the program, I received one B second semester to finish with an overall GPA of 3.85. I haven't been able to find any school willing to say they screen at 3.0, but I have been mainly focusing on schools that have given interview/acceptances to people with sub 3.0 GPA's on mdapplicants.com.

 

[Catalystik]

Good alternate strategy. And: Well done on the SMP.

 

[Catalystik]

Update?

 

[Dr Turkelton]

Update?

Interview Invites at Wayne State, VCU, SLU and WashU. Accepted at VCU

 

[Catalystik]

Yeehah! Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Dr Turkelton]

Yeehah! Thanks for letting us know.

Thanks for all the advice you've given me!

 

[Catalystik]

Happy to help. Any advice you'd care to pass on to future "underdogs" in your shoes?