Chances for post-bacc program?

[kevin17ym]

Hi. I am becoming a music conservatory senior and I am considering pursuing medicine after graduation. Since my school primarily trains its students to become professional musicians, I do not have much opportunities take pre-med courses or get help from a pre-med advisor.
I am hoping to get into a formal post-bacc program that has a solid linkage programs with medical schools so that I can finish the program in one year and matriculate to medical school immediately.
I have looked in to several post-bacc programs (JHU, Bryn Mawr, Columbia, Goucher, UPenn, Temple, etc...) and most of them required that I turn in a standardized test score (in my case SAT). I am confident that my undergraduate GPA of 3.7 will be more impressive to look at than my SAT score of CR-560, M-700, W-580, totaling 1840. I don't think 1840 is a too bad of a score but my CR and W scores are below 600. I also have volunteered as a public elementary school classroom tutor since freshman year of college for about 4-6 hours a week. As a semi-professional musician, I have won several awards and performances. This coming year, I am planning to begin volunteering in hospitals.I also registered myself for biology and general chemistry at a university through our cross-registration program at my conservatory. I thought if I have some of those science grades before I apply, it will help them see my potentials in sciences better. It's also for a back-up plan of doing informal post-bacc program at Harvard Extension or UC-Berkeley Extension.
I am considering if I should re-take SAT. I didn't really care for my SAT score in high school because I knew I wanted to go to a conservatory and pursue music. Right now, I took a practice test and I am hitting each sections above 650, giving me an overall score of 1950~2000. I don't think I can get an equivalent score on GRE since the Critical Reading section on GRE has a large vocabulary section which is my worst fear.
If I am planning on applying this coming January AFTER I have my Fall Semester grades, and assuming that my GPA will be maintained or raised, should I re-take the SAT? It would be great if I can get comments about each specific programs (JHU, Bryn Mawr, Columbia, Goucher, UPenn, and Temple). How important is the SAT score than GPA to each of these programs? Will (hopefully) my 3.7 GPA be good enough for forgiveness of my SAT score? Any suggestions of other 1-year linkage post-bacc programs out there? What are my overall chances of getting into a 1-year linkage program? I also know that I don't have much health-care related activities, so will it be better to just do a informal post-bacc instead (it will save money but it will take 1 year of classes + 1 glide year)?

Thank you for reading!

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[DrMidlife]

Start clinical volunteering now. You're expected to have several hundred volunteer hours before a postbac, so you want to have a lot before you apply this fall. At this point you won't get rejected for your GPA/SAT, you'll get rejected for lack of clinical exposure.

Look at the admissions websites for info on how happy (or not) these postbacs are about students who already have some science. Generally you are expected to *not* have taken much science. Taking intro classes that don't count as prereqs would be smart.

Look in the postbac forum for more info from current & former students. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Best of luck to you.

 

[cnhampton]

Generally speaking, the admissions counselors at these institutions are really good about telling you if a specific element of your application package is going to be a deal breaker, or if there's something they'd recommend you do before applying. I'd just try calling 2 or 3 of them, and talking to someone. These are all post-bacc classes, for the most part freshman and sophomore level undergrad courses for your medical pre-reqs, and you have essentially proven that you can handle a bachelors level degree of some kind, so (to my understanding) it _should_ count massively more than the old exam score.

 

[kevin17ym]

Start clinical volunteering now. You're expected to have several hundred volunteer hours before a postbac, so you want to have a lot before you apply this fall. At this point you won't get rejected for your GPA/SAT, you'll get rejected for lack of clinical exposure.

Look at the admissions websites for info on how happy (or not) these postbacs are about students who already have some science. Generally you are expected to *not* have taken much science. Taking intro classes that don't count as prereqs would be smart.

Look in the postbac forum for more info from current & former students. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

Best of luck to you.

Hey man. Thanks for the reply.
So when you say "you'll get rejected" you're CONFIDENT that I'll get rejected based on my insufficient clinical exposure? I was thinking of doing 10 hours a week starting this September, but I probably need to spend time attending orientation and training before volunteering at a hospital. So if I start beginning of October after orientation/training, that's like 10~12 weeks, 10 hours each, so 100~120 hours before application? I'm spending my summer far away from my school right now and most volunteering opportunities ask the volunteers to do it for more than 3 months minimum so I don't think I can start volunteering now... It's definitely puny compared to other applicants, but is that good enough reason to expect rejections from everyone of these programs? JHU, Bryn Mawr, Columbia, Goucher, UPenn, and Temple.

It matters how confident you are when you say "you'll get rejected" because I need to plan accordingly:
If you say you're confident, then I'll probably take those two science course, biology and general chemistry, this coming year and plan to enter an informal post-bacc program. (If I'm going into an informal post-bacc, I need to take those two pre-req classes so I can finish my pre-reqs faster)
If you say 50/50 and if you think it will help my chances SIGNIFICANTLY (I emailed JHU about this, they said I am "eligible" to apply) if I DON'T take those pre-req courses, then I'll probably take statistics, calculus (oh yea and I also have 4 on my AP Calc AB test if it means anything) and maybe non-pre-req science courses this coming year instead.
If you say I'll probably get in at least ONE of those programs regardless of if I take those science classes or not, then I'll take it easy, take just calculus and statistics instead and with the time that I have, take up more volunteering hours.
Or combinations of these three paths...
What do you suggest?

Also, thank you cnhampton

 

[thlaxer]

I had about 3 months of shadowing (~5 hr/week) and 2-3 months of volunteering (~7 hr/week) when I applied to a post-bac. Not sure how this compares to other applicants but most schools (e.g. Columbia, HES, Penn, NYU, etc.) seemed to think that this was sufficient. Just my n=1 experience. Would it be possible for you to fit in some shadowing over the next few months? That might help you (both experience- and numbers-wise). Generally speaking, most post-bac programs are not very picky on who they choose to admit. The 'top-tier' programs (e.g. Bryn Mawr and Goucher, etc.) are very selective though. Good luck!

It's definitely puny compared to other applicants, but is that good enough reason to expect rejections from everyone of these programs? JHU, Bryn Mawr, Columbia, Goucher, UPenn, and Temple.

 

[AmbitiousMind07]

Does it matter how long ago these clinical hours were completed? I volunteered/shadowed for three years back in high school. I'm now a senior in college and haven't had much clinical experience since. Will this gap prove to be a problem or will three years plus strong letters of support from the primary care clinic I volunteered at be sufficient?

 

[DrMidlife]

Does it matter how long ago these clinical hours were completed? I volunteered/shadowed for three years back in high school. I'm now a senior in college and haven't had much clinical experience since. Will this gap prove to be a problem or will three years plus strong letters of support from the primary care clinic I volunteered at be sufficient?

This is a problem. Activities from high school don't belong on a med school app, with the arguable exception of AP credit. You might get a postbac to ignore the gap, but think long term. A med school won't ignore it.

Best of luck to you.

 

[NightGod]

Does it matter how long ago these clinical hours were completed? I volunteered/shadowed for three years back in high school. I'm now a senior in college and haven't had much clinical experience since. Will this gap prove to be a problem or will three years plus strong letters of support from the primary care clinic I volunteered at be sufficient?

General rule is: if it happened in high school, it didn't happen as far as med school admissions is concerned. About the only exception to that would be things like "Olympic Athlete" or "Won the Intel Science Fair at the national level". In short, get thee to the volunteer office at the local hospital ASAP

 

[AmbitiousMind07]

Bahahahaaaa - thanks guys! Well that's unfortunate, I slaved at that place! (Started when they first opened the clinic) - at least it got me into college Gonna take your advice.

 

[abumblingbee]

As far as the testing goes, you could try applying with your SAT score, but I would also advise studying and sitting for the GRE. In my opinion, since the SAT is supposed to test on what high schoolers learn before college, and the GRE is supposed to test what college students learn before grad school, it would be a waste of time to retake the SAT.

The point of having the score is so that the admissions committee can see how well you handle standardized testing. By seeing an SAT/GRE score, they are checking to make sure you won't bomb the MCAT even after having taken a full load of pre-reqs. I understand that you're worried about your vocab skills, but studying for about a month and doing as best you can will probably make your application much stronger.

Good luck! I just did finished my post-bacc and was accepted last month via a linkage, and I start med school in just a few weeks. I'm sure you'll be in the same spot as me soon!

 

[abumblingbee]

Oh, and don't worry that your high school volunteer hours count for zilch. You'll certainly need to do a lot more before you apply to medical school, but from what I know of post-bacc programs it'll be a big help to your applications now. Since you have put in a significant amount of hours in the healthcare setting, you know about the profession and you're not just some shiny-eyed new graduate who's like "well I didn't get that cushy office job I wanted so now I guess I'll go be a DOCTOR!"

Depending on your application time frame for post bacc programs, it can't hurt to get in more clinical hours now (shadowing or volunteering) if you can, but from what you say it sounds like your high school hours weren't insignificant and I think would help your post bacc apps.

 

[spacetomatoes]

I can't particularly help you with your specific questions, but I just wanted to shout out as a fellow music major! I just finished my post-bacc in May, and am going through the application process now. When I get overwhelmed about how much farther ahead everyone else seems, I try to think about what I've learned studying music that will make me an awesome doctor, and how that makes me really unique. We WILL be doctors!

 

[kevin17ym]

I can't particularly help you with your specific questions, but I just wanted to shout out as a fellow music major! I just finished my post-bacc in May, and am going through the application process now. When I get overwhelmed about how much farther ahead everyone else seems, I try to think about what I've learned studying music that will make me an awesome doctor, and how that makes me really unique. We WILL be doctors!

That's very encouraging! I hope the best of luck to you!

 

[columbiapostbac]

Hi. I am becoming a music conservatory senior and I am considering pursuing medicine after graduation. Since my school primarily trains its students to become professional musicians, I do not have much opportunities take pre-med courses or get help from a pre-med advisor.
I am hoping to get into a formal post-bacc program that has a solid linkage programs with medical schools so that I can finish the program in one year and matriculate to medical school immediately.
I have looked in to several post-bacc programs (JHU, Bryn Mawr, Columbia, Goucher, UPenn, Temple, etc...) and most of them required that I turn in a standardized test score (in my case SAT). I am confident that my undergraduate GPA of 3.7 will be more impressive to look at than my SAT score of CR-560, M-700, W-580, totaling 1840. I don't think 1840 is a too bad of a score but my CR and W scores are below 600. I also have volunteered as a public elementary school classroom tutor since freshman year of college for about 4-6 hours a week. As a semi-professional musician, I have won several awards and performances. This coming year, I am planning to begin volunteering in hospitals.I also registered myself for biology and general chemistry at a university through our cross-registration program at my conservatory. I thought if I have some of those science grades before I apply, it will help them see my potentials in sciences better. It's also for a back-up plan of doing informal post-bacc program at Harvard Extension or UC-Berkeley Extension.
I am considering if I should re-take SAT. I didn't really care for my SAT score in high school because I knew I wanted to go to a conservatory and pursue music. Right now, I took a practice test and I am hitting each sections above 650, giving me an overall score of 1950~2000. I don't think I can get an equivalent score on GRE since the Critical Reading section on GRE has a large vocabulary section which is my worst fear.
If I am planning on applying this coming January AFTER I have my Fall Semester grades, and assuming that my GPA will be maintained or raised, should I re-take the SAT? It would be great if I can get comments about each specific programs (JHU, Bryn Mawr, Columbia, Goucher, UPenn, and Temple). How important is the SAT score than GPA to each of these programs? Will (hopefully) my 3.7 GPA be good enough for forgiveness of my SAT score? Any suggestions of other 1-year linkage post-bacc programs out there? What are my overall chances of getting into a 1-year linkage program? I also know that I don't have much health-care related activities, so will it be better to just do a informal post-bacc instead (it will save money but it will take 1 year of classes + 1 glide year)?

Thank you for reading!

General FYI: Columbia accepts almost everyone who applies. The minimum requirement is that you have at least a 3.0 GPA. They rely on applicants to be self-selecting, since you will be taking the exact same courses as the Columbia undergrads, who tend towards the lower end of the curve. Also, physics weeds out as many students as orgo does, and bio more than both of them put together. So you'll be competing with regular Columbia undergrads, other post-bacs who do even better, and just for fun, will have 3 weeding courses instead of 1. In other words, it's tough. Plus it's expensive. If you think you can handle it, go for it! It's a two-year program, but you can link to save the lag year. As others have stated, you need more clinical time, so a two-year program might not be a bad idea. Plus, you're really young, take your time to make sure it's what you want to do. The adcoms will want to be sure too.

PS - what do you play? I'm a singer, and used to be an instrumentalist.

 

[kevin17ym]

General FYI: Columbia accepts almost everyone who applies. The minimum requirement is that you have at least a 3.0 GPA. They rely on applicants to be self-selecting, since you will be taking the exact same courses as the Columbia undergrads, who tend towards the lower end of the curve. Also, physics weeds out as many students as orgo does, and bio more than both of them put together. So you'll be competing with regular Columbia undergrads, other post-bacs who do even better, and just for fun, will have 3 weeding courses instead of 1. In other words, it's tough. Plus it's expensive. If you think you can handle it, go for it! It's a two-year program, but you can link to save the lag year. As others have stated, you need more clinical time, so a two-year program might not be a bad idea. Plus, you're really young, take your time to make sure it's what you want to do. The adcoms will want to be sure too.

PS - what do you play? I'm a singer, and used to be an instrumentalist.

Hey, thanks for the reply... Yea I realized that Columbia is a 2 year program, I'm actually trying to finish it in 1 year. Looks like a great program there but I guess it's not for me.

PS - I'm a composition major, so I compose, play piano, and violin. I'm an amateur singer as well not classically trained though.