Chances of Acceptance into Medical School/DO School-Advice

[Kjustin9]

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Hello Everyone!

I am currently a senior. I wanted some help/opinions on what you guys think my odds are of getting into either MD or DO school. My current major is Molecular and Cell Biology, however I decided to stay an extra year to get a degree in Psych to help boost my cum gpa. Currently my cumgpa sits at a 2.44 and my sgpa is at about a 2.7. I have some volunteering experience doing MedLife in Peru and also helping out some food shelters in my area as well as ALOT of research experience working in a microbiology lab in addition to a regenerative engineering lab(program that I completed this summer). I have written a thesis in my microbiology lab as well as a review paper for the regenerative engineering program. In addition to this I have also done SMDEP (Summer Medical and Dental Program) in the Summer at Rutgers as well. What has caused me to do so poorly is I have had various extenuating family/domestic circumstances that I have been placed in and has effected my grades throughout my 4 years in college. I still havent taken the MCAT which i believe will hold a significant amount of weight in my application just wanted to get your thoughts on if I should retake some of the science courses I did poorly in or just try to finish the Psyc Degree. I am looking to take MCAT in Jan. and apply Spring 2019 so any type of feedback would help and be greatly appreciated. 🙂 (Side Note: I am really trying to avoid having to do a Post-Bacc or Masters Program hence why I am trying to add the Psych degree for an extra year to boost my GPA)

 

[Goro]

For anonyminity's sake, I suggest you modify your name and screen name.

Your GPAs are lethal. A Psych degree won't make you amore competitive candidate.

Read this, because you HAVE to do a post-bac SMP.
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

You will also need to resolve your life issues and develop coping skills.

 

[Catalystik]

I am currently a senior. I wanted some help/opinions on what you guys think my odds are of getting into either MD or DO school. My current major is Molecular and Cell Biology, however I decided to stay an extra year to get a degree in Psych to help boost my cum gpa. Currently my cumgpa sits at a 2.44 and my sgpa is at about a 2.7. I have some volunteering experience doing MedLife in Peru and also helping out some food shelters in my area as well as ALOT of research experience working in a microbiology lab in addition to a regenerative engineering lab(program that I completed this summer). I have written a thesis in my microbiology lab as well as a review paper for the regenerative engineering program. In addition to this I have also done SMDEP (Summer Medical and Dental Program) in the Summer at Rutgers as well. What has caused me to do so poorly is I have had various extenuating family/domestic circumstances that I have been placed in and has effected my grades throughout my 4 years in college. I still havent taken the MCAT which i believe will hold a significant amount of weight in my application just wanted to get your thoughts on if I should retake some of the science courses I did poorly in or just try to finish the Psyc Degree. I am looking to take MCAT in Jan. and apply Spring 2019 so any type of feedback would help and be greatly appreciated. 🙂 (Side Note: I am really trying to avoid having to do a Post-Bacc or Masters Program hence why I am trying to add the Psych degree for an extra year to boost my GPA)

I estimate you will not be able to get your GPA high enough with one more year of 4.0 grades to meet meet typical MD school GPA automatic cutoffs. Past poor performance can be forgiven by med schools, but not until you demonstrate a prolonged period of academic excellence. Having good ECs will not help adcomms overlook mediocre performance in classes. And Psych, in general, won't require the hard science classes that you need to boost your BCPM GPA/sGPA, which is the most important parameter by which you will be judged.

 

[Blanky]

You have a 2.44 and no MCAT. All of that other stuff is irrelevant.

 

[candbgirl]

Of course without a MCAT no one can predict but your GPAs are NOT competitive for any med school and your ECs are weak. It would be pointless to take the MCAT until you do something about your GPAs. Besides, with a sGPA that low you probably have big gaps in knowledge that will most likely impact your score in a negative way. You’ll need to do a post bacc of some sort and maybe after that a SMP. YOU’ll need at least two years of full time course work where you achieve >3.7 GPA. The courses should be upper level science classes. The additional psych major will do nothing to help your application. At this point your GPAs probably won’t move much but if you can manage to string together several semesters of As in upper level science courses you MIGHT be able to convince ADCOMS you are up to the rigors of med school. You also need to work on your ECs. Even with all of this you should have a Plan B . Remember, around 60% of applicants are not accepted each year. Currently average GPA for MD accepted students is 3.7+. You did not mention DO schools. You should look into DO. They seem to be more forgiving but even so the average GPA for accepted students is around 3.4+(I think). So you can see you have lots of work ahead of you and you do need to plan for a post bacc.

 

[Catalystik]

1) your ECs are weak.
2) It would be pointless to take the MCAT until you do something about your GPAs.
3) You did not mention DO schools. You should look into DO. They seem to be more forgiving but even so the average GPA for accepted students is around 3.4+(I think).

1) I agree. A longitudinal experience with clinical volunteering would be nice to see. International clinical experience isn't going to help you. And if you did something clinical in the SMDEP, it was only a summer's worth. Hopefully you also got in a decent amount of physician shadowing with that program.
2) Agreed.
3) The thread title did mention DO schools, but this being the Pre-Medical-MD forum, you might consider posting in Pre-Medical-DO for further DO applicant insights. Also, do a Search for their "Underdogs" thread.

 

[Kjustin9]

Of course without a MCAT no one can predict but your GPAs are NOT competitive for any med school and your ECs are weak. It would be pointless to take the MCAT until you do something about your GPAs. Besides, with a sGPA that low you probably have big gaps in knowledge that will most likely impact your score in a negative way. You’ll need to do a post bacc of some sort and maybe after that a SMP. YOU’ll need at least two years of full time course work where you achieve >3.7 GPA. The courses should be upper level science classes. The additional psych major will do nothing to help your application. At this point your GPAs probably won’t move much but if you can manage to string together several semesters of As in upper level science courses you MIGHT be able to convince ADCOMS you are up to the rigors of med school. You also need to work on your ECs. Even with all of this you should have a Plan B . Remember, around 60% of applicants are not accepted each year. Currently average GPA for MD accepted students is 3.7+. You did not mention DO schools. You should look into DO. They seem to be more forgiving but even so the average GPA for accepted students is around 3.4+(I think). So you can see you have lots of work ahead of you and you do need to plan for a post bacc.

So instead of the psychology additional degree I am considering kind of a DIY( Do-It-Yourself Post-Bacc, any recommendations of what classes I should take to help over look some of my downfalls. I would not mind DO schools at all so maybe I will make a similar posting in there. I appreciate all of the help guys, thanks

 

[Goro]

So instead of the psychology additional degree I am considering kind of a DIY( Do-It-Yourself Post-Bacc, any recommendations of what classes I should take to help over look some of my downfalls. I would not mind DO schools at all so maybe I will make a similar posting in there. I appreciate all of the help guys, thanks

Read my guide...i have course suggestions in there.

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

So instead of the psychology additional degree I am considering kind of a DIY( Do-It-Yourself Post-Bacc, any recommendations of what classes I should take to help over look some of my downfalls. I would not mind DO schools at all so maybe I will make a similar posting in there. I appreciate all of the help guys, thanks

Upper level biology courses and you need straight A's

 

[Kjustin9]

Read my guide...i have course suggestions in there.

Ok thank you I will read through your entire guide, I hope that if I do well enough in a year I will have a chance at applying to at least 5 schools and maybe getting into one. Also I forgot to mention I am African American male don't know how much that will help but I would take my chances

 

[Kjustin9]

Upper level biology courses and you need straight A's

Ok, and in addition to this do you suggest anything else? maybe I will turn the psych degree into a minor and aim to take as many upper level courses as possible.

 

[candbgirl]

Ok, and in addition to this do you suggest anything else? maybe I will turn the psych degree into a minor and aim to take as many upper level courses as possible.

They have to be science courses. Psych isn’t going to help so forget about it. Focus on what you need to do. Now go read @Goro’s guide.

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

Ok, and in addition to this do you suggest anything else? maybe I will turn the psych degree into a minor and aim to take as many upper level courses as possible.

URM helps. I think that with a four year degree you will have enough credits built up that a 2 year DIY post bac with all A's in all science courses is necessary, or an SMP. Seriously, goros guide

Don't think that you don't have a steep uphill climb in front of you if you want to be a doctor

 

[Kjustin9]

Read my guide...i have course suggestions in there.

One more question for you Goro, I have taken about 3 upper level science courses already, getting a D+ in Immunology, D in Genetics and B- in microbiology. Do you suggest retaking any of these? I have retaken Genetics already and still did poorly. Let me know what you think? I appreciate it

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

One more question for you Goro, I have taken about 3 upper level science courses already, getting a D+ in Immunology, D in Genetics and B- in microbiology. Do you suggest retaking any of these? I have retaken Genetics already and still did poorly. Let me know what you think? I appreciate it

You need to figure out how to get A's in similar courses, and only retake if you can get an A.

Probably also time to consider if you are able to do this even with changes in study habits.

 

[Kjustin9]

You need to figure out how to get A's in similar courses, and only retake if you can get an A.

Probably also time to consider if you are able to do this even with changes in study habits.

Well I know I am capable, Like I mentioned before lots of personal issues have gotten into the way of this hence, killing my dreams. But I think with this reinvention model I will have a fighters chance

 

[Kjustin9]

One more question for you Goro, I have taken about 3 upper level science courses already, getting a D+ in Immunology, D in Genetics and B- in microbiology. Do you suggest retaking any of these? I have retaken Genetics already and still did poorly. Let me know what you think? I appreciate it

In addition to this I have also not done well in Anatomy and Phys as well getting like a D+ in that course, so I have dug a pretty big hole for myself.

 

[Goro]

One more question for you Goro, I have taken about 3 upper level science courses already, getting a D+ in Immunology, D in Genetics and B- in microbiology. Do you suggest retaking any of these? I have retaken Genetics already and still did poorly. Let me know what you think? I appreciate it

I recommend retaking, even if They're not required

 

[Catalystik]

I have taken about 3 upper level science courses already, getting a D+ in Immunology, D in Genetics and B- in microbiology. Do you suggest retaking any of these? I have retaken Genetics already and still did poorly.

In addition to this I have also not done well in Anatomy and Phys as well getting like a D+ in that course, so I have dug a pretty big hole for myself.

I recommend retaking, even if They're not required

I suggest retaking all but Microbiology.

 

[Kjustin9]

I suggest retaking all but Microbiology.

I have already retaken genetics and got a D, also retook anatomy and phys and got a D as well. The only one I havent retaken in that group would be Immunology, which I plan on retaking this semester. In addition to this is endocrinology considered one of those upper level science courses that you recommend goro?

My upcoming schedule is
Calc2
Cell Bio
Immunology/Endocrinology
Spanish 3
Psych2

 

[candbgirl]

But don’t retake unless you can get an A. If you continue to get Ds and D+s you will never get where you need to be. Every grade you earn is counted in your GPA. Retake grades do not replace grades. If you are serious about this, before you take another class figure out how to get As. I don’t think I’d take any more classes unless I was sure(pretty sure) I would be successful. But that’s me.

 

[Kjustin9]

But don’t retake unless you can get an A. If you continue to get Ds and D+s you will never get where you need to be. Every grade you earn is counted in your GPA. Retake grades do not replace grades. If you are serious about this, before you take another class figure out how to get As. I don’t think I’d take any more classes unless I was sure(pretty sure) I would be successful. But that’s me.

Yes I understand what you are saying, like I said in the above post I've had a few extenuating circumstances that have taken me away from doing my best work. I plan to really perform this semester and after therapist visits and understanding how to deal with life issues a bit better I believe I have restored my drive.

 

[Kjustin9]

Also I really appreciate you guys feed back. I also want to share with you my pre-rec grades because I feel like the numbers arent doing them that much justice. I don't think they are THAT bad but they deff need improving and doing better in some upper level courses would help

Gchem1-B+
gchem2-C+
Ochem1- B
Ochem2- B+
Bio1 (RETAKEN)- C+
Bio2 (RETAKEN)- B-
Physics1(RETAKEN)- C
Physics2- B+
Biochem- C

 

[Goro]

Also I really appreciate you guys feed back. I also want to share with you my pre-rec grades because I feel like the numbers arent doing them that much justice. I don't think they are THAT bad but they deff need improving and doing better in some upper level courses would help

Gchem1-B+
gchem2-C+
Ochem1- B
Ochem2- B+
Bio1 (RETAKEN)- C+
Bio2 (RETAKEN)- B-
Physics1(RETAKEN)- C
Physics2- B+
Biochem- C

No, they not good.

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

Also I really appreciate you guys feed back. I also want to share with you my pre-rec grades because I feel like the numbers arent doing them that much justice. I don't think they are THAT bad but they deff need improving and doing better in some upper level courses would help

Gchem1-B+
gchem2-C+
Ochem1- B
Ochem2- B+
Bio1 (RETAKEN)- C+
Bio2 (RETAKEN)- B-
Physics1(RETAKEN)- C
Physics2- B+
Biochem- C

They are THAT bad

 

[Kjustin9]

No, they not good.

So Goro, personally how would you attack a situation like this if you are doing a DIY postbacc

 

[Kjustin9]

They are THAT bad

So how would you attack a situation like this? Personally just trying to get some really good advice here

 

[Goro]

So Goro, personally how would you attack a situation like this if you are doing a DIY postbacc

In your case, don't retake the pre-reqs, but ace everything from now on.

 

[candbgirl]

Also I really appreciate you guys feed back. I also want to share with you my pre-rec grades because I feel like the numbers arent doing them that much justice. I don't think they are THAT bad but they deff need improving and doing better in some upper level courses would help

Gchem1-B+
gchem2-C+
Ochem1- B
Ochem2- B+
Bio1 (RETAKEN)- C+
Bio2 (RETAKEN)- B-
Physics1(RETAKEN)- C
Physics2- B+
Biochem- C

What are the two grades for Bio I and Bio II? You only listed one grade for each course but you said they were retakes.

And I agree, these grades bad especially for someone looking to go to med school. A C+ in Bio I for a student that needs a science sequence for some reason is okay but it’s not for a pre med student. Bio I is a basic course. I think you might not want to understand what everyone is saying. Your situation isn’t going to be an easy fix. Cs and Bs are not going to help you fix anything. You should take some time and reread this thread. Every year students with impeccable applications, GPAs of 3.8 +, MCATS above 512 and amazing ECs are rejected. None of us have a right to be doctors. Not everyone that wants to be a doctor gets to be one. It’s up to you to turn this around. But you first have to understand that Cs and Bs aren’t going to help you.

 

[Kjustin9]

What are the two grades for Bio I and Bio II? You only listed one grade for each course but you said they were retakes.

And I agree, these grades bad especially for someone looking to go to med school. A C+ in Bio I for a student that needs a science sequence for some reason is okay but it’s not for a pre med student. Bio I is a basic course. I think you might not want to understand what everyone is saying. Your situation isn’t going to be an easy fix. Cs and Bs are not going to help you fix anything. You should take some time and reread this thread. Every year students with impeccable applications, GPAs of 3.8 +, MCATS above 512 and amazing ECs are rejected. None of us have a right to be doctors. Not everyone that wants to be a doctor gets to be one. It’s up to you to turn this around. But you first have to understand that Cs and Bs aren’t going to help you.

So originally when I took Bio1 i received a C+ then I retook it and received a C+, and with Bio2 I took it the first time and got an F(due to me almost dropping out of college at the time and not attending classes dealing with family situations etc) and took it again and got a B-

 

[candbgirl]

Thanks. Just so you know the C+ will be counted twice for Bio I and a B- and a F will be counted for Bio II. That’s how AMCAS and AACOMS figures GPAs. All grades are used to calculate your GPA.

 

[Kjustin9]

Thanks. Just so you know the C+ will be counted twice for Bio I and a B- and a F will be counted for Bio II. That’s how AMCAS and AACOMS figures GPAs. All grades are used to calculate your GPA.

So personally, how would you navigate this grade situation in a DIY postbacc possibly cuz that’s what is the most cost effective for me right now

 

[2001ws6]

A pre-med myself and having never spent a minute in medical school, I don’t know how much weight my words will hold, but if you’re struggling in those undergraduate classes, regardless of the reasons behind those struggles, do you think you’ll be able to cope with medical school classes? It’s a serious question and I don’t mean to insult. You seem to have the confidence that you will, but I don’t know where it’s coming from considering your consistent poor performance in science classes.

The world is a big place with many, many very important professions out there, there’s no shame in realizing you might have another calling. What’s your passion?

 

[Kjustin9]

A pre-med myself and having never spent a minute in medical school, I don’t know how much weight my words will hold, but if you’re struggling in those undergraduate classes, regardless of the reasons behind those struggles, do you think you’ll be able to cope with medical school classes? It’s a serious question and I don’t mean to insult. You seem to have the confidence that you will, but I don’t know where it’s coming from considering your consistent poor performance in science classes.

The world is a big place with many, many very important professions out there, there’s no shame in realizing you might have another calling. What’s your passion?

Don’t think your insulting me cuz it’s an honest question but to be honest with you medical school is where I see myself and I have had a lot of unfortunate circumstances get in the way of me demonstrating that I can handle a rigorous curriculum etc but I know I have the capability. I mean to be completely honest with you if I didn’t have the drive that I have I probably would have ended up dropped out of school but I stuck with it. My passion is medicine my passion is getting into medical school and being able to help people. I’m set on it and I will continue to follow this dream until I get to my destination. So essentially I’m willing to do whatever it takes to get into med school

 

[On_The_Way_Up]

Good lord man. You are retaking multiple classes and still getting F’s and D’s. You say you know you are capable of better but where is the evidence for that? If you were capable you would have done it by now and if you were it doesn’t matter now. Shoulda woulda coulda doesn’t mean anything.

People that reinvent themselves a lot of times still have over a 3.0 GPA or close to it and they have a high MCAT score. They have a VERY STRONG upward trend of 2-3 years with nearly all A’s if not straight A’s. And these people tend to have above average ECs.

Not only are you continuing to make bad grades but you are doing it in classes that you are retaking. Seeing the material a second time and still failing is really bad. People that reinvent themselves don’t fail 5 to 6 classes that they retook. At this point your chances are next to none. Looks like you’ve taken a bunch of upper division level classes already. There isn’t much left to take and any other upper divisions levels courses will only be harder. I really do believe it’s time to look at plan B.

 

[Kjustin9]

Good lord man. You are retaking multiple classes and still getting F’s and D’s. You say you know you are capable of better but where is the evidence for that? If you were capable you would have done it by now and if you were it doesn’t matter now. Shoulda woulda coulda doesn’t mean anything.

People that reinvent themselves a lot of times still have over a 3.0 GPA or close to it and they have a high MCAT score. They have a VERY STRONG upward trend of 2-3 years with nearly all A’s if not straight A’s. And these people tend to have above average ECs.

Not only are you continuing to make bad grades but you are doing it in classes that you are retaking. Seeing the material a second time and still failing is really bad. People that reinvent themselves don’t fail 5 to 6 classes that they retook. At this point your chances are next to none. Looks like you’ve taken a bunch of upper division level classes already. There isn’t much left to take and any other upper divisions levels courses will only be harder. I really do believe it’s time to look at plan B.

Thanks for your input but I’m not giving up on my dream. I’ve only taken 3 upper level courses

 

[candbgirl]

So personally, how would you navigate this grade situation in a DIY postbacc possibly cuz that’s what is the most cost effective for me right now

Have you graduated yet? I don’t know what you can do to fix this mess. You have been told over and over you need several semesters of full time courses where you achieve As or >3.8. I don’t know how much clearer any of us can be. People do retake classes but they get As on the second trip through. You retake and get Ds. Do the GPAs you listed in your first post include EVERY GRADE you have received in any community colle, college, university or dual enrollment from high school? From what you have shared with us, I doubt those GPAs do . You keep saying you can only see yourself being in medicine. But you’ve done nothing to get yourself there. You keep asking the same questions and you keep getting the same answers. You are the one that has to figure out a plan for success. What I would do doesn’t apply to you. It has no relationship at all. Quite bluntly a 2.4 cGPA and a 2.7 sGPA( and I suspect it is much lower with all of the Fs, Ds etc) isn’t going to get you into any medical school. Maybe Plan B and Plan C should be looked at now.

 

[THEBACKANDFORTH]

Thanks for your input but I’m not giving up on my dream. I’ve only taken 3 upper level courses

I kept sending exactly this to NASA in the dream of becoming an astronaut, but sadly, they blocked me

 

[Chlorophyll Oracle]

For anonyminity's sake, I suggest you modify your name and screen name.

Your GPAs are lethal. A Psych degree won't make you amore competitive candidate.

Read this, because you HAVE to do a post-bac SMP.
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

You will also need to resolve your life issues and develop coping skills.

Unfortunately OP, I think Goro is spot on. My understanding is that a GPA like that will hold you back from any med school you apply to. I think you need some long periods of amazing grades to make up for it.

 

[Goro]

Thanks for your input but I’m not giving up on my dream. I’ve only taken 3 upper level courses

The problem is that even with lower level courses that you've repeated, you're not gettings As. Bs won't cut it anymore.

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

Lol the name of this thread says everything. "Medical School/DO School" ultimate disrespect haha

 

[sunshinefl]

Lol the name of this thread says everything. "Medical School/DO School" ultimate disrespect haha

I’ve seen a few people post threads with a similar title/OP saying “Medical school/DO school” and I’ve rolled my eyes so hard they hurt but so far didn’t say anything. But yeah, I noticed too.