Chances of Getting Accepted?

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dannramm

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Currently a Senior Biochemistry Pre-Med student, 3.1 GPA, 2.7 sGPA, 492 MCAT (retaking in Janurary). So far I've gotten secondary applications from LECOM and ACOM, is that a good sign?

Also, I've gotten accepted Caribbean, although I get told there isn't "as much of a stigma anymore", is it worth it to go Caribbean if I don't get accepted to US? So far AUA is acceptance, Ross is interview and still waiting on St. George.
 
dannramm said:
Currently a Senior Biochemistry Pre-Med student, 3.1 GPA, 2.7 sGPA, 492 MCAT (retaking in Janurary). So far I've gotten secondary applications from LECOM and ACOM, is that a good sign?

Also, I've gotten accepted Caribbean, although I get told there isn't "as much of a stigma anymore", is it worth it to go Caribbean if I don't get accepted to US? So far AUA is acceptance, Ross is interview and still waiting on St. George.
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Was it, perchance, one of the Caribbean schools that told you the bolded? Stigma is worse than ever. With the residency merger, it is expected that IMGs are going to get more shut out of residencies than ever.

It is probably a good sign to have received secondaries from those schools but with your stats I do not think you have a strong chance of acceptance.

Caribbean med schools are also set up differently than US med schools. They have virtually no admissions criteria but the real difficulty is making it through the program and succeeding in gaining a US residency and becoming a physician. They cut a huge portion of their med students after they fail, at any point during the 4 years. I would tell you statistics about this but they won't tell us the actual statistics. I have seen estimates that ~50% of any given class does not go on to practice medicine. So that is where their true admissions criteria are. I believe they are actually set up to perpetuate this, because they do not have enough rotation sites for all of the 1st/2nd years that matriculate. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.

Given this, going to the Carribean with your stats would be a tragic move. Your stats indicate that you would have poor likelihood to succeed in med school (there is some correlation between undergrad grades and MCAT and med school performance). So if you attended a Carribean school, you would be very likely to not make it through the program, and would have tons of debt.

If you are serious about pursuing medicine, you ought to prove to yourself and US admissions committees that you are capable of succeeding in med school. You can do this by taking undergrad coursework and performing well. If you can get your s/c GPAs above 3.0, and do much better (~505) on the MCAT, you would have a strong chance at matriculating into a DO program at some point.
 
dannramm said:
Currently a Senior Biochemistry Pre-Med student, 3.1 GPA, 2.7 sGPA, 492 MCAT (retaking in Janurary). So far I've gotten secondary applications from LECOM and ACOM, is that a good sign?

Also, I've gotten accepted Caribbean, although I get told there isn't "as much of a stigma anymore", is it worth it to go Caribbean if I don't get accepted to US? So far AUA is acceptance, Ross is interview and still waiting on St. George.
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*sigh*
Secondaries are often a tax on the hopelessly naïve, if not pathologically optimistic. Unless you have had a massive rising GPA trend, you are in a huge risk zone for failing out of med school and/or Boards.

Don't even think about going Carib unless you like the idea of driving for Uber after never getting a residency.
 
dannramm said:
So far I've gotten secondary applications from LECOM and ACOM, is that a good sign?
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They give it to almost everyone. LECOM can give secondaries based on ACT/SAT, which means nothing.

You need to reinvent yourself. It' possible. But with 2.7 sGPA and 492 MCAT.....I don't know.

People, with 3.2-3.6 don't get in, how will 2.7 make it work?
 
I usually recommend podiatry school to people with low stats like yours, but I cant even recommend any type of medical school right now with a science GPA lower than 3.0 unless you have a super GPA uprising trend.
 
You have some work to do but don't give up hope if this is what you really want to do. You need to get your sGPA to a 3.0 or very close to it before worrying about the MCAT. 3 years ago I had lower stats than you without an MCAT when I graduated w/ my bio degree. Long story short, I retook classes at my local CC, got into LECOM postbac program and did very well and am now in my first year of medical school.
 
Just so everyone is clear, my problem is classes has never been failing. I've never received lower than a C. My problem has just a flush of B/C grades. Thanks for the advice though everyone.
 
Ibn Sina MD said:
Why you SHOULDN'T go to the Caribbean:

The stigma is still there and getting worse. Program directors (PD), the people that decide if you get into their residency program/allow you to actually become a doctor don't always take kindly to Caribbean grads. Many Caribbean grads do get into residency in the US, which ultimately makes their degrees not worthless like it would be if they didn't get into a residency program. But those programs are normally the least competitive (not: lucrative, exciting, good location) out there. Many Caribbean medical students (I've heard ~25% of those that graduate) don't even get into a program (match) which means their degree and debt were useless, they can't practice medicine.

That's if you can graduate. The estimate I have heard is around 50-75% of Caribbean medical students don't even graduate because of high failure rates at those schools. The thing is if you're not ready for medical school, have a 2.5gpa and 480 on the MCAT you're just not ready for medical school. Students like that sometimes may say say "No, I am going to be a doctor." They go to the Caribbean and fail. Leaving them in at least $100,000 to $300,000 in debt without a medical license to pay for that debt. Those aren't your stats, but it looks like at this moment you are not ready for medical school in general.

MCAT

Study for the MCAT like it's a full time job. I recommend you study about ~200-300 hours total in a month and a half or two months. I mean 40-60 hours a week, take 5-10 practice exams, and get over a 502 on each practice test you take. If you can do that DO is an option. If you want the MD get over a 510.

GPA repair

@Goro, also known as a Guru is a valuable source on SDN. He is an adcom at a DO school. Take his advice with great weight. He just posted a post on GPA repair, I'm linking it below and make note of my post on that post.

Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

The key is you should do a post-bacc or SMP and get that GPA to a 3.5+ for DO or 3.7+ for MD. Retake any classes you got below a C- in.

Extracurriculars

Become a leader in some leadership position, volunteer at a hospital, shadow a doctor, and volunteer for another causes you support like food for the homeless.

I recommend you have 200+ clinical hours, volunteering counts towards this. If you can, become a scribe. You didn't ask about this but this is information I think you need.

Secondaries

They mean nothing. Everyone and their uncles get secondaries from schools. You can fill them out but everyone gets secondaries for schools they apply for. They aren't very selective at all.

Next Cycle

I don't recommend you apply this following cycle. Wait until you get above a 3.4 GPA in a SMP or post bacc program and a 500+ on the MCAT. If you have those scores, let's say anything below a 3.6 GPA and 507 MCAT apply ONLY DO. Apply broadly with every new school you find.

You

I know it's a lot and you could be trolling but in case you aren't, I believe in you. I know you want to be a doctor and if you work very hard and excel in a post-bacc program you can ****ing do it. I know you can.
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Thank you for the very extensive response. I really appreciate the encouragement and advice.
 
Your chances of getting accepted are essentially zero, as well as your chances of actually making through the Caribbean. That’s the harsh reality. You need to retake the MCAT and get 500+ and then get your gpas up to 3.2 and you could probably get into a new school, if you only get the gpa to about 3.0 and don’t break 500 on the MCAT I would then suggest podiatry.
 
OP,

First off, do not go to the Caribbean. Ever. Even if you have 3 unsuccessful cycles, go be a pharmacist before doing that. Go start your own business, it has a higher chance of succeeding than the Caribbean. Even with the saturation in Pharmacy, you are far more likely to land a full time job as a PharmD making 150K/year (Kind of a dream for PharmD) than becoming an MD (let alone being able to practice) from the Caribbean.

Before you go down this DO road, which is now much harder thanks to AACOMAS pulling the rug out from under everyone with grade replacement, you also have to realize that just because you hike up your GPA to a 3.2 and your MCAT above a 500, doesnt mean you will be guaranteed an acceptance in medical school.

What happens if you spend the next two years trying getting all As and finally making a 502 MCAT? Well, there are plenty of other people with higher scores, you might not get in. Plus, unless you are independently wealthy, you just spent 30-50K+ trying to achieve a goal and now interest is accruing.

Im going to be frank, unless you do an SMP, its time for plan B. There is more to life than medicine, in fact, not getting into medical school might just be the best thing that will ever happen to you. Look into OD, PharmD, Dentistry, etc.

Your best bet is doing an SMP, but even then I would advise against that because you have not demonstrated that you can get As in your sciences. Bs do not cut it, because medical school classes of equivalent course name are about 3 times as much material as undergrad. Literally, I look at my undergrad class microbiology, and each slide has about 1/3 of the content we needed to know vs medical school coursework. Instead of a single lecture being 50 slides, it is 150.

If you still want to be a "doctor", the closest to actual medicine you are going to get at this point is Podiatry, but even then, the first two year coursework is still the same, 3 schools take the same exact classes in the same classroom at the same time with DO students. How are you going to manage a 2.0 GPA in podiatry school when you can barely manage a 2.7 GPA now? Its still 3 times the work. After 3rd and 4th year Pod school becomes a bit easier than MD/DO, as they dont have shelf exams, but you still have to take a minimum of 3 boards before you can practice.

At this point, I would recommend doing a year worth of medical school classes, starting in the fall. Take Cell Bio, Biochem, Anatomy/Physio, etc. Basically mirror the first curriculum of medical school. Get As in these. You need to prove to yourself that you can actually hack these classes. After a year, you can stop and reassess if you want to continue down this path. Getting a 4.0 in 30 credits worth of upper level hard sciences is HARD. There is a reason MD school averages are in the 3.7-3.8 and the 510+ MCAT range. This stuff is HARD.

Ironically, your saving grace is the MCAT. You have only taken it 1 time, and if you can break a 500 on it, you can start down this road. Embarrassingly enough, it is fine as is for some of the larger Podiatry schools.
 
MCAT needs to be 495+, and you need to find a way to increase that sGPA. Then that only gives you "a chance" at some newer DO schools.


500+ MCAT and 3.2+ GPAs are a safer bet for some newer DO schools.

Also, polish up your EC's. You'll need them.

All I know for certain, is that carribeans are a dangerous game.

With carribeans, youu don't play to win, you play to not lose.
 
GypsyHummus said:
OP,

First off, do not go to the Caribbean. Ever. Even if you have 3 unsuccessful cycles, go be a pharmacist before doing that. Go start your own business, it has a higher chance of succeeding than the Caribbean. Even with the saturation in Pharmacy, you are far more likely to land a full time job as a PharmD making 150K/year (Kind of a dream for PharmD) than becoming an MD (let alone being able to practice) from the Caribbean.

Before you go down this DO road, which is now much harder thanks to AACOMAS pulling the rug out from under everyone with grade replacement, you also have to realize that just because you hike up your GPA to a 3.2 and your MCAT above a 500, doesnt mean you will be guaranteed an acceptance in medical school.

What happens if you spend the next two years trying getting all As and finally making a 502 MCAT? Well, there are plenty of other people with higher scores, you might not get in. Plus, unless you are independently wealthy, you just spent 30-50K+ trying to achieve a goal and now interest is accruing.

Im going to be frank, unless you do an SMP, its time for plan B. There is more to life than medicine, in fact, not getting into medical school might just be the best thing that will ever happen to you. Look into OD, PharmD, Dentistry, etc.

Your best bet is doing an SMP, but even then I would advise against that because you have not demonstrated that you can get As in your sciences. Bs do not cut it, because medical school classes of equivalent course name are about 3 times as much material as undergrad. Literally, I look at my undergrad class microbiology, and each slide has about 1/3 of the content we needed to know vs medical school coursework. Instead of a single lecture being 50 slides, it is 150.

If you still want to be a "doctor", the closest to actual medicine you are going to get at this point is Podiatry, but even then, the first two year coursework is still the same, 3 schools take the same exact classes in the same classroom at the same time with DO students. How are you going to manage a 2.0 GPA in podiatry school when you can barely manage a 2.7 GPA now? Its still 3 times the work. After 3rd and 4th year Pod school becomes a bit easier than MD/DO, as they dont have shelf exams, but you still have to take a minimum of 3 boards before you can practice.

At this point, I would recommend doing a year worth of medical school classes, starting in the fall. Take Cell Bio, Biochem, Anatomy/Physio, etc. Basically mirror the first curriculum of medical school. Get As in these. You need to prove to yourself that you can actually hack these classes. After a year, you can stop and reassess if you want to continue down this path. Getting a 4.0 in 30 credits worth of upper level hard sciences is HARD. There is a reason MD school averages are in the 3.7-3.8 and the 510+ MCAT range. This stuff is HARD.

Ironically, your saving grace is the MCAT. You have only taken it 1 time, and if you can break a 500 on it, you can start down this road. Embarrassingly enough, it is fine as is for some of the larger Podiatry schools.
Click to expand...
Im starting a petition for you to be compensated by the APMA for your marketing of podiatry.
 
There is a reddit post of some guy at Kent who had a 3.2 and 494 GPA and he barely passed anatomy with a C and is in danger zone of being put on academic probation because he has a 2.4 GPA after first year. He is debating wether or not to drop out, and he is 40k in debt just on tuition alone.

The road to becoming a doctor is hard, and all that premeds see is the fun side of Medicine, like doing the procedures, the 200k+ salary, the patients saying thank you, the cool lab coat with your name on it, the hot nurses, etc. Premeds don’t see the paperwork involved in seeing just 1 patient, the malpractice side of things, the 60+ hour workweeks, the taxes you have to pay on 200k, the 80+ hours you do in residency, not being able to see your kids, and did I mention paperwork?

The trade off is you get to do things a normal human won’t ever get to do, but there is a cost, and there isn’t a back door to paying for these costs. For every comeback story, there are 4 people who fail.

smurfeyD said:
Cause, like he said, with OPs stats, the curriculum for podiatry school is risky, despite the lack of competition to matriculate.
Click to expand...
 
GypsyHummus said:
The trade off is you get to do things a normal human won’t ever get to do, but there is a cost, and there isn’t a back door to paying for these costs. For every comeback story, there are 4 people who fail.
Click to expand...

The Monkey's Paw - Wikipedia

Monkey's paw: You have 3 wishes
Person: I want to make 200k a year!
Monkey's paw: thy will be done
Person: Wait, residency...what...Oh no! Noooo!
 
dannramm said:
Currently a Senior Biochemistry Pre-Med student, 3.1 GPA, 2.7 sGPA, 492 MCAT (retaking in Janurary). So far I've gotten secondary applications from LECOM and ACOM, is that a good sign?

Also, I've gotten accepted Caribbean, although I get told there isn't "as much of a stigma anymore", is it worth it to go Caribbean if I don't get accepted to US? So far AUA is acceptance, Ross is interview and still waiting on St. George.
Click to expand...
Whatever you do, please do not go to Ross.
 
dannramm said:
Currently a Senior Biochemistry Pre-Med student, 3.1 GPA, 2.7 sGPA, 492 MCAT (retaking in Janurary). So far I've gotten secondary applications from LECOM and ACOM, is that a good sign?

Also, I've gotten accepted Caribbean, although I get told there isn't "as much of a stigma anymore", is it worth it to go Caribbean if I don't get accepted to US? So far AUA is acceptance, Ross is interview and still waiting on St. George.
Click to expand...

I would very much consider the advice others are giving you here regarding the Caribbean route. Please, don't do it. I was a second time applicant this cycle before I got accepted here in the states and would have applied a THIRD time if things didn't work out. What I will tell you is that you are n o t ready to enter medical school at this point in your life. As much as you don't want to hear it and want to jump right into getting a move on with your career, you have to be realistic. Why jump into something that will more than likely be short term satisfaction and end up setting you back even further than you originally were? Take your time and pace yourself.

Improve that GPA tremendously (NOT just so it looks pretty on your application but because you genuinely need it. You need to become more familiar with a tough science curriculum and do better than C's and C-'s in order to have an easier transition as a medical student). And second, study long and hard for the MCAT. Again, this is not only for your application but you're just as importantly helping prepare yourself to have a basis for medical school. You do not want to go in blindly or get accepted knowing far less than you should.

The last thing I'll say is do not get super stuck on numbers but still know there's an "acceptable" range. Your numbers aren't there yet but they can be. I received 6 II's this cycle (all osteopathic) and multiple acceptances with a 497 MCAT (I would still suggest striving much higher than my 497, other aspects of my application have tremendously made up for my low score. But just trying to show you its possible without a "505-510" or whatever they say is the minimum nowadays). I wish you the best of luck and hope you post here some day that you've received that acceptance you've been looking for.
 
jab12 said:
I would very much consider the advice others are giving you here regarding the Caribbean route. Please, don't do it. I was a second time applicant this cycle before I got accepted here in the states and would have applied a THIRD time if things didn't work out. What I will tell you is that you are n o t ready to enter medical school at this point in your life. As much as you don't want to hear it and want to jump right into getting a move on with your career, you have to be realistic. Why jump into something that will more than likely be short term satisfaction and end up setting you back even further than you originally were? Take your time and pace yourself.

Improve that GPA tremendously (NOT just so it looks pretty on your application but because you genuinely need it. You need to become more familiar with a tough science curriculum and do better than C's and C-'s in order to have an easier transition as a medical student). And second, study long and hard for the MCAT. Again, this is not only for your application but you're just as importantly helping prepare yourself to have a basis for medical school. You do not want to go in blindly or get accepted knowing far less than you should.

The last thing I'll say is do not get super stuck on numbers but still know there's an "acceptable" range. Your numbers aren't there yet but they can be. I received 6 II's this cycle (all osteopathic) and multiple acceptances with a 497 MCAT (I would still suggest striving much higher than my 497, other aspects of my application have tremendously made up for my low score. But just trying to show you its possible without a "505-510" or whatever they say is the minimum nowadays). I wish you the best of luck and hope you post here some day that you've received that acceptance you've been looking for.
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Just curious, what were your other stats? a 497 MCAT with 6 II's is impressive. How many DO schools did you apply to in total?
 
Robin-jay said:
Just curious, what were your other stats? a 497 MCAT with 6 II's is impressive. How many DO schools did you apply to in total?
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Thank you! So I applied to a total of 13 DO schools with a cGPA of 3.63 and sGPA of 3.45. Still average but I was smart with the schools I chose to apply to (did research on all of their averages to make sure I wasn't ridiculously far off). I truly believe that my ECs and personal statement played a huge role as well and also made sure not to lack in any of those aspects.
 
Last edited:
jab12 said:
Thank you! So I applied to a total of 13 DO schools with a cGPA of 3.63 and sGPA of 3.45. Still average but I was smart with the schools I chose to apply to (did research on all of their averages to make sure I wasn't ridiculously far off). I truly believe that my ECs and personal statement played a huge role as well and also made sure not to lack in any of those aspects.
Click to expand...

Very cool. What were your EC's and what made your PS stand out?
 
Robin-jay said:
Very cool. What were your EC's and what made your PS stand out?
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I was a lab assistant in undergrad, did research in neuropharmacology, shadowed 2 physicians (1 MD, 1 DO 50 hours each), hundreds of hours as a hospice volunteer, first aid & rescue squad volunteer, and hospital volunteer (sorry for inexact numbers, I just can't recall exactly atm), >3000 hours as a medical scribe in the ER where I currently work. And regarding my PS, I had no "tragic" moment in my life to write about particularly but I do consider myself a decent writer and spent countlesss hours revising it and making it super meaningful. I always believed that once they pick up your app and you make it past the "acceptable gpa/mcat" screening, the next thing they pick up is that PS and it better stand out! Lol
 
jab12 said:
I was a lab assistant in undergrad, did research in neuropharmacology, shadowed 2 physicians (1 MD, 1 DO 50 hours each), hundreds of hours as a hospice volunteer, first aid & rescue squad volunteer, and hospital volunteer (sorry for inexact numbers, I just can't recall exactly atm), <3000 hours as a medical scribe in the ER where I currently work. And regarding my PS, I had no "tragic" moment in my life to write about particularly but I do consider myself a decent writer and spent countlesss hours revising it and making it super meaningful. I always believed that once they pick up your app and you make it past the "acceptable gpa/mcat" screening, the next thing they pick up is that PS and it better stand out! Lol
Click to expand...

The part I bolded above is probably why you were accepted. Thousands of hours working in a clinical setting was probably just enough to offset a slight sub-500 MCAT score.

I'm not surprised you were accepted with a 497, that seems pretty common. I'm surprised you had the 6 II's though.
 
Robin-jay said:
The part I bolded above is probably why you were accepted. Thousands of hours working in a clinical setting was probably just enough to offset a slight sub-500 MCAT score.

I'm not surprised you were accepted with a 497, that seems pretty common. I'm surprised you had the 6 II's though.
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I agree. As far as all the IIs, who knows what adcoms think when they review apps. Especially when I see people on here with 515s post that they're still waiting for IIs from certain schools I've been accepted and I'm looking at my 497 lol. It's a roll of the dice honestly.
 
jab12 said:
I agree. As far as all the IIs, who knows what adcoms think when they review apps. Especially when I see people on here with 515s post that they're still waiting for IIs from certain schools I've been accepted and I'm looking at my 497 lol. It's a roll of the dice honestly.
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Yup I never really understood that. I understand that many DO schools think applicants with 510+ scores will end up matriculating else where, but its surprising that people with as low as 20-25th percentile MCAT are getting accepted to places people with a 90% are not (or even the interview).
 
Robin-jay said:
Yup I never really understood that. I understand that many DO schools think applicants with 510+ scores will end up matriculating else where, but its surprising that people with as low as 20-25th percentile MCAT are getting accepted to places people with a 90% are not (or even the interview).
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True, although I wouldn't say as low as 20-25th percentile. I'm at the 40th but I get what you're saying. Hopefully every one of us deserving pre meds has our shot. Best of luck with your own endeavours!
 
jab12 said:
True, although I wouldn't say as low as 20-25th percentile. I'm at the 40th but I get what you're saying. Hopefully every one of us deserving pre meds has our shot. Best of luck with your own endeavours!
Click to expand...

Haha, I know a 497 is closer to 40th percentile, but there have been a few people on here with as low as 492 getting some love from places that are turning down 515 applicants. And thanks.
 
Robin-jay said:
Haha, I know a 497 is closer to 40th percentile, but there have been a few people on here with as low as 492 getting some love from places that are turning down 515 applicants. And thanks.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, very interesting. We also don't know what the rest of their application entails though. Yes, they may have that amazing score but the rest of the app is just as important and we have no idea if they're lacking in anything...whether that be in ECs, rec letters, gpa, or even remotely showing an interest in medicine. Some people get so cocky about their numbers that they forget how seriously admissions takes clinical experience. So, in those cases it's understandable why the outstanding MCATs would be looked over but in other cases, we'll never know lol.
 
jab12 said:
Oh wow, very interesting. We also don't know what the rest of their application entails though. Yes, they may have that amazing score but the rest of the app is just as important and we have no idea if they're lacking in anything...whether that be in ECs, rec letters, gpa, or even remotely showing an interest in medicine. Some people get so cocky about their numbers that they forget how seriously admissions takes clinical experience. So, in those cases it's understandable why the outstanding MCATs would be looked over but in other cases, we'll never know lol.
Click to expand...

Ya who knows. I think from viewing all these threads, that I would have to say clinical experience is not to be underestimated. But you're right, the process seems very random sometimes.
 
DO NOT GO THE CARRIBEAN. Students who feel hopeless and pressured by time may end up going Caribbean, but the schools are literally exploiting that to make profit. While the education may be excellent, the residency match rates are horrible. They unfortunately over-admit students than residency positions can fill. You do NOT want to go 300K in debt based on that. What I would recommend is doing a special masters program that is connected with a med school. Those programs are designed to test your ability in the med school, and if you can show that you're doing well, they'll usually grant you and interview or accept you, i know a number of my friends who studied at LMU-COM were able to do that. Don't lose hope and don't go Caribbean!
 
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