PhD/PsyD Chances of getting an internship while on probation?

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student9295

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I’ve heard mixed feedback about the impact of any sort of probation on chances of securing an APA internship. Some have said that any history of such disciplinary actions (current or past) will eliminate all chances. In contrast, others have said that it is not necessarily a complete road block. I know APPIC requires all applicants to disclose if they have ever been put on probation. I imagine some sites will probably use that as the basis for rejecting applicants including those that receive a large volume of applicants. However, I am curious if all sites will respond the same way.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated.
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Are you on probation?

Probation may make getting a fingerprint card impossible.
 
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I think he means academic probation. It depends on what happened and how it was addressed. It should be something that is written about by both the applicant and the DCT. It is essential for the applicant's version to be consistent with the DCT's. If it's not, it looks REALLY bad. It still gets reviewed at my site but it has to get passed the initial reviewers and ultimately the team to get an interview. It could be a matter of sheer luck so the best thing you can do is present a consistent story focusing on positive & professional attitudes and growth, apply to sites, and hope your other strengths are enough to overshadow whatever happened.
 
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If it's probation through the criminal justice system, this could prevent you from successfully passing the background check required to start an internship, especially for state and federal agencies.

If it's program-based probation, in addition to what @niceman wrote, it can depend on each site's perceived quality of its applicant pool and whether a site traditionally matches with their top ranked choices or struggles to fill its spots, which may influence how 'risk averse' each site is and how/whether they want to consider the nature of the probation, how it's addressed in your application, and whatever steps have been taken to address the original concern(s).
 
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If it's academic probation, it won't necessarily nix any chance of securing an accredited internship, you'll just need to listen to the advice and responses above RE: explaining the situation, being consistent in that explanation with your DCT, etc. It being ongoing would probably affect things more than if it were already resolved, since sites are taking a gamble on your successfully completing whatever stipulations are in place; that might be the biggest sticking point. I would probably apply widely and include multiple sites that might be viewed as "less competitive."
 
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Adding on, if it's academic probation, make as sure as you can that you have no other marks against you. As an anecdote, at my institution, we evaluate on a case-by-case basis. We had an applicant who had been on academic probation, but explained it well enough and both the applicant and DCT wrote it as growth, etc. However, the applicant also had another (minor, non-academic) disciplinary thing as well. We might have overlooked one or the other, but not both.
 
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AcronymAllergy said:
If it's academic probation, it won't necessarily nix any chance of securing an accredited internship, you'll just need to listen to the advice and responses above RE: explaining the situation, being consistent in that explanation with your DCT, etc. It being ongoing would probably affect things more than if it were already resolved, since sites are taking a gamble on your successfully completing whatever stipulations are in place; that might be the biggest sticking point. I would probably apply widely and include multiple sites that might be viewed as "less competitive."
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It’s non-academic, program related.
 
Too tough to say without knowing specifics about the issue. Sounds like it's definitely a red flag, so the rest of your application needs to be better to make up for the issue. If it's bad enough, it's a DNR.
 
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Most sites may not consider it disqualifying provided other items , GPA, reference letters and CV look good. Only a few sites would reject it outright. So you still have a good chance, Good Luck.
 
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thebalmofhurtminds said:
Adding on, if it's academic probation, make as sure as you can that you have no other marks against you. As an anecdote, at my institution, we evaluate on a case-by-case basis. We had an applicant who had been on academic probation, but explained it well enough and both the applicant and DCT wrote it as growth, etc. However, the applicant also had another (minor, non-academic) disciplinary thing as well. We might have overlooked one or the other, but not both.
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What was the other disciplinary infraction? I believe the AAPI only asks about probation, complaints, and legal history
 
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It's understandable that you want to be vague on details to avoid identifying info. I wouldn't advise being specific about it either. But, no one can give very specific advice here on the issue, it really depends on the issue itself. Some issues are minor blips if in the past, isolated, and they cover it well in their explanatory statement. Some issues are immediate disqualification for ranking at many sites.
 
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student9295 said:
What was the other disciplinary infraction? I believe the AAPI only asks about probation, complaints, and legal history
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It was a minor legal history thing.

It really does depend, I'm sorry to say. It's an automatic red flag, but might not be an automatic DNR.
 
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thebalmofhurtminds said:
It was a minor legal history thing.

It really does depend, I'm sorry to say. It's an automatic red flag, but might not be an automatic DNR.
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For legal history, we don’t outright disqualify people for things like DUIs. But we do look at how the person addresses the issue in the letter, how they are doing now, etc. No one is perfect. I think what you can do is make every effort to address the issue in a succinct and straightforward manner in your application materials. This sounds stressful. I hope you have some good ways to cope and give yourself a bit of a break.
 
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dcpsychdoc said:
For legal history, we don’t outright disqualify people for things like DUIs. But we do look at how the person addresses the issue in the letter, how they are doing now, etc. No one is perfect. I think what you can do is make every effort to address the issue in a succinct and straightforward manner in your application materials. This sounds stressful. I hope you have some good ways to cope and give yourself a bit of a break.
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Chronicity and frequency matters. We not uncommonly have applicants with remote DUIs, which is not an automatic disqualification as you detailed. However, I have reviewed an application wherein an applicant had 3 DUIs, with the most recent being in the year of applying for internship. That person did not get an interview.
 
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Doctor Koala said:
“Give us better deidentified specifics, or we can’t provide feedback,” is basically what I’m reading in the replies here.
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I get OP not wanting to out themselves, but being so cryptic prevents anyone from being able to substantively help them.
 
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psych.meout said:
I get OP not wanting to out themselves, but being so cryptic prevents anyone from being able to substantively help them.
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I apologize for being cryptic at this point and I sincerely appreciate the guidance and support from all of you. I can say that the issue was an isolated event and stems from misunderstanding about a particular procedure. I now know to seek clarification whenever anything is unclear.
 
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student9295 said:
I’m wondering if VAMCs have a policy about non-academic program related probation.
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My experience of reviewing apps within the VA and outside the VA, was that they do not differ much. There are no real policies about reviewing non-academic probation aside from activties which would legally preclude someone from federal employment.
 
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Am I the only one that had to get a full background check and fingerprinting at the VA? Might have been a lab thing.
 
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I think it depends very much on the site and if it is something that you need to report on the APPI.

I know someone who was still on legal probation (I am not sure the specifics of the incident but I always assumed DUI) and reported it on the APPI. This person got some interviews in the first round but ultimately matched in the second round. They did not receive any interviews at government sites -- which was surprising, given how good and relevant this individual's application must have been. They now are doing a postdoc at a really competitive site.
 
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kittenlady said:
I think it depends very much on the site and if it is something that you need to report on the APPI.

I know someone who was still on legal probation (I am not sure the specifics of the incident but I always assumed DUI) and reported it on the APPI. This person got some interviews in the first round but ultimately matched in the second round. They did not receive any interviews at government sites -- which was surprising, given how good and relevant this individual's application must have been. They now are doing a postdoc at a really competitive site.
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It seems that current and past probations have to be disclosed on the AAPI.
 
As previously indicated, the nature of the probation is quite complex. I could PM someone on here if anyone would want to review the details.

I suspect that this probation has significantly impacted my chances, as I have received nothing but rejections thus far.
 
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student9295 said:
As previously indicated, the nature of the probation is quite complex. I could PM someone on here if anyone would want to review the details.

I suspect that this probation has significantly impacted my chances, as I have received nothing but rejections thus far.
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Are you currently on probation or it was in the past? I think in my program you have to have come off of probation to be allowed to apply to internship, but maybe I’m wrong.

also, did you talk to your DCT about this before applying? They should have offered you advice about how to navigate it and how to address it in your apps.
 
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discolemonade said:
Are you currently on probation or it was in the past? I think in my program you have to have come off of probation to be allowed to apply to internship, but maybe I’m wrong.

also, did you talk to your DCT about this before applying? They should have offered you advice about how to navigate it and how to address it in your apps.
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It’s a complex situation. I am technically currently on probation. The program agreed to allow me to apply for internship but my DCT mentioned that no student has applied while on probation.
 
student9295 said:
It’s a complex situation. I am technically currently on probation. The program agreed to allow me to apply for internship but my DCT mentioned that no student has applied while on probation.
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Did your DCT give uou help with how to address it in your app? Or offer any feedback on if they thought it would prevent you from matching?
 
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student9295 said:
It’s a complex situation. I am technically currently on probation. The program agreed to allow me to apply for internship but my DCT mentioned that no student has applied while on probation.
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Well this definitely sucks and am guessing this is why other programs do not allow students to apply if they are on probation. It creates an understandable concern for internship sites because what happens if this probation is never lifted or what happens if you don't finish your program? Well they would have spent a year on training that may then be viewed as a waste. I wonder if you can use APPIC's informal problem consultation to get some additional thoughts on how you should proceed or what options may be available if Phase I does not go as planned.
 
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student9295 said:
It’s a complex situation. I am technically currently on probation. The program agreed to allow me to apply for internship but my DCT mentioned that no student has applied while on probation.
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Generally the DCT addresses this in the letter that they write for each student. At my program, our DCT let us see the letter beforehand. Were you able to?
 
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student9295 said:
It’s a complex situation. I am technically currently on probation. The program agreed to allow me to apply for internship but my DCT mentioned that no student has applied while on probation.
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yeah, unfortunately it doesn’t make sense for a site to gamble on an applicant when there’s no evidence that the problem that led to probation has been successfully remediated. Surprised your DCT let you apply this year.

In general, I’d advise people on academic probation/remediation to get an outsider to read their explanation and see if it makes sense. Applications where the description of circumstances is super vague or seems disproportionately trivial in light of the disciplinary action reads as if the applicant is trying to hide something or doesn’t appreciate the seriousness. It helps when both the applicant and the DCT can speak to (1) specific steps taken to rectify the situation and (2) concrete evidence of change/improvement.
 
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I'm only a student applying to internship this year so I can't provide insight on your question, but feel free to PM me if you want to process or vent about anything. The application process is stressful enough to begin with, sorry you've had to deal with this as well. Good luck!
 
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Internship TD here. It's a big it depends. Some issues we won't overlook. Others we will give a pass if the application is otherwise stellar. However if the applicant makes excuses or doesn't take ownership over what happened its a DNR no matter what the issue was.
 
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beantownpsych said:
Internship TD here. It's a big it depends. Some issues we won't overlook. Others we will give a pass if the application is otherwise stellar. However if the applicant makes excuses or doesn't take ownership over what happened its a DNR no matter what the issue was.
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Thanks for your clarification
 
student9295 said:
As previously indicated, the nature of the probation is quite complex. I could PM someone on here if anyone would want to review the details.

I suspect that this probation has significantly impacted my chances, as I have received nothing but rejections thus far.
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It is still November. Hanging there. When I applied, I sent 15 applications in October and received 0 invitation by mid-November. Out of panic, I applied to 12 less competitive sites. Then the interview invitations started arriving in December. Some worries can be motivational but too much can cause unnecessary stress that demands additional emotional labor to cope. Take good care of yourself. Eventually, we all ended up where we belong. It is important to work with people who appreciate you, value your strengths, and invested in your growth. We all make mistakes and regretful decisions at some point in life. If your intuition is correct that your application was rejected because of this probation, it could be a clue that it might not be a good match. Maybe go back and review your application materials and see if any improvement can be made. For example, getting strong recommendation letter(s) that offer detailed examples instead of generic statements. For example, an illustration of your effectiveness and/or ability to connect with patients/clients, their experience of you as a trainee, your utilization of supervision time, your engagement in class, their evaluation of your understanding and applications of theories, your ability to conceptualize complex cases and personalize treatment plans under what level or intensity of supervision...
A letter of good standing from the Director of Training is typically required by VA sites. If your TD has the time to write a personalized letter for you, that can be very helpful. It is a busy letter-writing season. if you have not yet, you might want to ask sooner rather than later. Good luck with everything!
 
Class 2016 CSPP said:
It is still November. Hanging there. When I applied, I sent 15 applications in October and received 0 invitation by mid-November. Out of panic, I applied to 12 less competitive sites. Then the interview invitations started arriving in December. Some worries can be motivational but too much can cause unnecessary stress that demands additional emotional labor to cope. Take good care of yourself. Eventually, we all ended up where we belong. It is important to work with people who appreciate you, value your strengths, and invested in your growth. We all make mistakes and regretful decisions at some point in life. If your intuition is correct that your application was rejected because of this probation, it could be a clue that it might not be a good match. Maybe go back and review your application materials and see if any improvement can be made. For example, getting strong recommendation letter(s) that offer detailed examples instead of generic statements. For example, an illustration of your effectiveness and/or ability to connect with patients/clients, their experience of you as a trainee, your utilization of supervision time, your engagement in class, their evaluation of your understanding and applications of theories, your ability to conceptualize complex cases and personalize treatment plans under what level or intensity of supervision...
A letter of good standing from the Director of Training is typically required by VA sites. If your TD has the time to write a personalized letter for you, that can be very helpful. It is a busy letter-writing season. if you have not yet, you might want to ask sooner rather than later. Good luck with everything!
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I am concerned about my DCT’s letter of approval. She has refused to let me review it, which is concerning.
 
student9295 said:
I am concerned about my DCT’s letter of approval. She has refused to let me review it, which is concerning.
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I don’t understand why she would let you apply if she was going to write bad things/make it difficult for you to match.
 
discolemonade said:
I don’t understand why she would let you apply if she was going to write bad things/make it difficult for you to match.
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If a student has met all of the objective criteria as put forward in the student handbook, there is not much they can really do if a student wants to go forward with the application process.
 
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WisNeuro said:
If a student has met all of the objective criteria as put forward in the student handbook, there is not much they can really do if a student wants to go forward with the application process.
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Even while on probation?
 
WisNeuro said:
If a student has met all of the objective criteria as put forward in the student handbook, there is not much they can really do if a student wants to go forward with the application process.
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Yeah the program manual does not say anything about holding students back from internship.
 
discolemonade said:
Even while on probation?
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Probably depends on the type and severity of probation. But I have definitely reviewed apps of students currently on probation. Usually, they can only hold you back for academic reasons or haven't made the completion benchmark on dissertation that is required of the program.
 
WisNeuro said:
Probably depends on the type and severity of probation. But I have definitely reviewed apps of students currently on probation. Usually, they can only hold you back for academic reasons or haven't made the completion benchmark on dissertation that is required of the program.
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Have students on probation received interviews?
 
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