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Hi, I am a MD pathology graduate from my home country. My step 1 score is 259. I will be having about 6 months of USCE in pathology by next year. But I have have failed CS once. Hoping that I clear CS next time around and get a decent step 2ck score. what are my chances of getting matched for pathology residency for 2016? Can anyone plz guide me as to which programs accept students with more than 1 CS attempts for pathology residency programs.
thanks a lot
 

LoaLoa

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I'd consider the CS failure a "yellow flag", but not a deal-breaker. You crushed Step 1. If you have good letters from your US rotations I think you should should be able to land some interviews. I think your interviews will make or break you.

I think your chances will be poor at top-tier programs (Harvard, Hopkins, Mayo, Duke, etc), unless you rotated there and they like you. I think you still have a reasonable chance at mid- and and certainly at lower-tier academic and community programs. Gotta pass step 2 though.
 
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Sep 30, 2014
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Hi, I am a MD pathology graduate from my home country. My step 1 score is 259. I will be having about 6 months of USCE in pathology by next year. But I have have failed CS once. Hoping that I clear CS next time around and get a decent step 2ck score. what are my chances of getting matched for pathology residency for 2016? Can anyone plz guide me as to which programs accept students with more than 1 CS attempts for pathology residency programs.
thanks a lot

Hi
I need ur urgent advice
I am an IMG with step 1 only (238), old IMG graduation year2004,

I am an IMG with step 1 only (238), old IMG graduation year2004, completed pathology residency outside US and a one year fellowship, i an now in US got a green card... Can I still apply now for interviews and catch 2015 match?

And can you advice me on how to get pathology USCE? I am located in Houston, I tried to contact many programs but they all told me they dont accept observerships nor volunteer work, and I cant find a research position too
 

mlw03

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Hi
I need ur urgent advice
I am an IMG with step 1 only (238), old IMG graduation year2004,

I am an IMG with step 1 only (238), old IMG graduation year2004, completed pathology residency outside US and a one year fellowship, i an now in US got a green card... Can I still apply now for interviews and catch 2015 match?

And can you advice me on how to get pathology USCE? I am located in Houston, I tried to contact many programs but they all told me they dont accept observerships nor volunteer work, and I cant find a research position too
You did the thing one can do, which is contact programs and ask. As has been discussed on here many times, there is little incentive for a program to allow observerships. They slow down the attendings and there's really nothing gained. Another option is to contact private pathology groups in the area, but likewise, it's a tough sell. You offer nothing. Sorry to be blunt, but there's no point giving you false hope.
 
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Hi
I need ur urgent advice
I am an IMG with step 1 only (238), old IMG graduation year2004,

I am an IMG with step 1 only (238), old IMG graduation year2004, completed pathology residency outside US and a one year fellowship, i an now in US got a green card... Can I still apply now for interviews and catch 2015 match?

And can you advice me on how to get pathology USCE? I am located in Houston, I tried to contact many programs but they all told me they dont accept observerships nor volunteer work, and I cant find a research position too
Go into primary care.
 

mlw03

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You mean I should apply for primary care? Is it easier to get one?
But I want to go on in pathology practisr
Yes, he's saying to apply for primary care. Yes, it is generally easier to get a residency spot in primary care than pathology. That said, English is clearly not your first language, and you should consider whether you can provide patients the level of care they deserve working in a non-native language. I harp on language skills a lot on here, but it's because I see how weak verbal and written English make pathology even more difficult, particularly so in my area (forensic path), where writing very nuanced opinions is bread-and-butter FP. Heck, even that kind of idiomatic stuff illustrates how important language skills are.
 
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Yes, he's saying to apply for primary care. Yes, it is generally easier to get a residency spot in primary care than pathology. That said, English is clearly not your first language, and you should consider whether you can provide patients the level of care they deserve working in a non-native language. I harp on language skills a lot on here, but it's because I see how weak verbal and written English make pathology even more difficult, particularly so in my area (forensic path), where writing very nuanced opinions is bread-and-butter FP. Heck, even that kind of idiomatic stuff illustrates how important language skills are.
Indeed. I am awfully tired of English proficiency being considered "optional" for pathology residency recruitment. I am sure that its even worse for the forensics guys, as mlw03 has communicated.

You should apply for primary care because it is easier to get into, is more in demand and has better job opportunities. But first, learn how to communicate in English effectively.
 
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Yes, he's saying to apply for primary care. Yes, it is generally easier to get a residency spot in primary care than pathology. That said, English is clearly not your first language, and you should consider whether you can provide patients the level of care they deserve working in a non-native language. I harp on language skills a lot on here, but it's because I see how weak verbal and written English make pathology even more difficult, particularly so in my area (forensic path), where writing very nuanced opinions is bread-and-butter FP. Heck, even that kind of idiomatic stuff illustrates how important language skills are.


Yes english is not my first language as you deduced; however, you are the only people I have seen that made this comment as a key point in order to get a path residency, a pointless point that no body would ever just think of in evaluating people who are new to the country,.. Of course poinless because the guys in the immigration never care about that when they gave me the green card stamp, and guys in the archives of pathology never even questioned when I published my first author publication.... I would better listen to people who make me optimistic... Good bye folks
 

LoaLoa

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Yes english is not my first language as you deduced; however, you are the only people I have seen that made this comment as a key point in order to get a path residency, a pointless point that no body would ever just think of in evaluating people who are new to the country,.. Of course poinless because the guys in the immigration never care about that when they gave me the green card stamp, and guys in the archives of pathology never even questioned when I published my first author publication.... I would better listen to people who make me optimistic... Good bye folks
While some of the advice you received here has been harsh, there is a kernel of truth to the suggestions the above posters gave you. English proficiency is certainly not "pointless", and there is a difference between what is acceptable in the research setting and what is called for in clinical practice. In a sense, language is the pathologist's work product. It is critical to recognize your limitations.

One way I have seen non-native speaker pathologists successfully deal with this issue is to have a sense of humor about it. Ask colleagues for help with wording and practice getting it right. A defensive attitude will do you no good whatsoever, and will identify you as a difficult person to work with.
 
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mlw03

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Yes english is not my first language as you deduced; however, you are the only people I have seen that made this comment as a key point in order to get a path residency, a pointless point that no body would ever just think of in evaluating people who are new to the country,.. Of course poinless because the guys in the immigration never care about that when they gave me the green card stamp, and guys in the archives of pathology never even questioned when I published my first author publication.... I would better listen to people who make me optimistic... Good bye folks
You came on here asking a question. It's an internet forum, and my opinion is that language skills are crucial in the practice of medicine, as it is at the core of how we (pathologists) communicate our work product. Your position that language is pointless is part of why some people are so anti-FMG, and that's a shame for the many FMGs that know how important language is and work very hard to improve their English language skills. You want to practice medicine in the English speaking country. No one put a gun to your head and told you to leave your home country. Communicating nuanced opinions is not easy with perfect language skills. With mediocre skills, it's darn near impossible. Montreal is a lovely place I hear, but I'd never go try to work there... because I don't speak fluent French. As noted above, there's a big difference between speaking English well enough to get into the US or do research versus practicing real medicine in an English speaking country.

Regardless of your language skills, if that attitude is what comes through, you probably won't get a residency spot anyway. PITA FMG... yeah, program directors are banging down the door for them.
 
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You came on here asking a question. It's an internet forum, and my opinion is that language skills are crucial in the practice of medicine, as it is at the core of how we (pathologists) communicate our work product. You position that language is pointless is part of why some people are so anti-FMG, and that's a shame for the many FMGs that know how important language is and work very hard to improve their English language skills. You want to practice medicine in the English speaking country. No one put a gun to your head and told you to leave your home country. Communicating nuanced opinions is not easy with perfect language skills. With mediocre skills, it's darn near impossible. Montreal is a lovely place I hear, but I'd never go try to work there... because I don't speak fluent French. As noted above, there's a big difference between speaking English well enough to get into the US or do research versus practicing real medicine in an English speaking country.

Regardless of your language skills, if that attitude is what comes through, you probably won't get a residency spot anyway. PITA FMG... yeah, program directors are banging down the door for them.
dont worry. albany or any of the other horrible programs would love to have an inarticulate grossing monkey.

****ty programs recruiting weak imgs to be path techs is about as close to indentured servitude as you can get.

oh and btw op, research experience means squat in the real world of medical practice.
 
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English language is an easy language which I can learn by sitting in star bucks every week and talking to the waiters.. It's a matter of time and we IMGs can speak at a comparable level to you guys.. It's knowledge that what killing you AMGs... In your country they always choose the best in knowledge.. Language comes easy after that in a couple of months... Anyways I wouldn't listen to you both...I will go on in my way and I will find many good people with clear minds that will encourage people like me to grow and give to the humankind... Go find something more useful to do better than working in the forums and actung like a source of frustration to everybody
 

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English language is an easy language which I can learn by sitting in star bucks every week and talking to the waiters.. It's a matter of time and we IMGs can speak at a comparable level to you guys.. It's knowledge that what killing you AMGs... In your country they always choose the best in knowledge.. Language comes easy after that in a couple of months... Anyways I wouldn't listen to you both...I will go on in my way and I will find many good people with clear minds that will encourage people like me to grow and give to the humankind... Go find something more useful to do better than working in the forums and actung like a source of frustration to everybody

*IS* that right?

 

mlw03

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Ok, I'm done with this. This was your original question:
And can you advice me on how to get pathology USCE? I am located in Houston, I tried to contact many programs but they all told me they dont accept observerships nor volunteer work, and I cant find a research position too

Keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like it is working splendidly for you. And in case you didn't pick it up in the coffee shop: adviSe is a verb and adviCe is a noun.
 

chooks

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Honestly, if this is your response to criticism (whether justified or not) you may want to examine whether residency in ANY field is right for you at the moment. Even in Pathology, which is a generally easier residency than others, you will have your share of criticisms, negative feedback, and general interpersonal conflicts that may be deserved or not. I do not know any of your background but you come across as being petulant. This is not going to help you match if this is how you come across in real life.

That being said, pathology programs do not fill every year so if you have the appropriate scores/LORS/etc... then I am sure you can match someplace. Put on your big boy pants, start doing your research, and stop getting incensed at random internet forum users trying to answer your questions.

Sincerely,

Yet Another Internet Know-it-all
 
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You mean I should apply for primary care? Is it easier to get one?
But I want to go on in pathology practisr
Depending on what you have been doing since your 2004 graduation, matching in path may be easier than in primary care even though the stats suggest the opposite. I also was a 10+ year old grad, non-US IMG, and applied in both. My application in pathology was much better received, probably because I had been doing path related research since arriving in the US.

I am sure it's true (in general, anyway) that an institution gains little from hosting an observer. However, some institutions will host them anyway due to personal connections or sometimes just an attending's desire to help someone else. E-mail, network, call, and don't give up. Many path attendings themselves were IMGs once; someone helped them and they don't mind paying it forward. Try to connect to alumni of your medical school or from your home country. There may be a professional association of US pathologists from your country--make sure to look. Such an association existed for my country, but it was not well advertised and I didn't know it existed until I searched.

The diagnostic specialties are all about communication. You should not dismiss language skills and social skills, as both are crucial. The other side of the coin is that sometimes people pick on accent/grammar/foreignness even in situations where it is not impacting medical care in any way. Such is life.

Finally, even the most well intentioned AMGs typically have limited knowledge of IMG-specific issues, including how difficult it is for an IMG to go through the match. Until you match, you will probably get more useful advice on one of the IMG specific forums than on studentdoctor.
 
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I'm an IMG in a path program.

My words of advice: please learn english. For the love of God.

This is not to keep on adding to the previous discussion but bear this in mind:

What do you think will happen if you match to a program that does everything through a dictation system? (I think most of them if not all are handled this way now)
Can you imagine dictating things twice or thrice ??!?!?! that will seriously mess with your life.

Think about it.
 
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Hi, I am a MD pathology graduate from my home country. My step 1 score is 259. I will be having about 6 months of USCE in pathology by next year. But I have have failed CS once. Hoping that I clear CS next time around and get a decent step 2ck score. what are my chances of getting matched for pathology residency for 2016? Can anyone plz guide me as to which programs accept students with more than 1 CS attempts for pathology residency programs.
thanks a lot
Good chances
 

DermViser

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English language is an easy language which I can learn by sitting in star bucks every week and talking to the waiters.. It's a matter of time and we IMGs can speak at a comparable level to you guys.. It's knowledge that what killing you AMGs... In your country they always choose the best in knowledge.. Language comes easy after that in a couple of months... Anyways I wouldn't listen to you both...I will go on in my way and I will find many good people with clear minds that will encourage people like me to grow and give to the humankind... Go find something more useful to do better than working in the forums and actung like a source of frustration to everybody
If it's that easy why haven't you done it? This is the United States. Just doing well on exams. I don't know why you come to a forum asking for advice, and think you know more than residents and attendings in the field. Go ahead and do it your way, and see how it works out for you.
 

yaah

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We have had applicants with a poor grasp of english apply to our group when we had open positions. Some have been essentially dismissed from consideration after a brief five minute phone call where the person talking to the applicant couldn't understand anything.
 
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Come on, guys.
Why do you think he failed CS because of English?
I took it a year ago and barely passed from the first attempt. My spoken english proficiency was far above the borderline but my ICE component was on the borderline. So English is not the main problem on this exam, this is not only my opinion.

Who told you that it is easier to get to primary care nowdays? Absolutely disagree. Both FM and IM are extremely competitive for the FMG who needs visa. My friends with scores above 250, fresh grads with good LOR's are only able to get interviews in the malignant programs of NYC, Baltimore and Chicago ghettos.

Pathology is extremely noncompetitive nowdays because of the reasons we are all aware about...
 

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hopenews..

Pathology field does not care much about English. In my experience, almost 20-40% of the academic pathologists in US (including at top universities) are foreigners and have poor english skills, sometimes both spoken and written. This is partly because as a pathologist you don't have to communicate directly with the patients. You deal mostly with other physicians, who have generally become adapt at understanding and tolerant of bad english, as long as they get accurate diagnosis and interpretation from you. Forensic pathology is an exception, however.

You flew off the handle quickly, that is concerning. If that is your usual temperament, I guess you may have to hide it during the interviews. Bad attitude is common among all nationalities, but would be less tolerated of a foreigner since they are already tolerating your less than average communication skills.

Hope this helps. Godspeed with the career of your choice.
 

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hopenews..

You deal mostly with other physicians, who have generally become adapt at understanding and tolerant of bad english, as long as they get accurate diagnosis and interpretation from you.
That has not been my experience in private practice. I have found that most private clinicians have little patience for poor communication skills.

It is probably a little different in academia, where your your clinicians are generally a captive audience.
 

TheTao

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As a person who has spent a considerable amount of my career thus far in academia, I don't think foreigners should even be allowed into the country to take opportunities away from folks who were born here ( yes, my Scientist angst!). It's one thing that many of them have poor English skills, but for them to get an attitude with you because you can't understand them in your country, really chaps my a**!
 

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As a person who has spent a considerable amount of my career thus far in academia, I don't think foreigners should even be allowed into the country to take opportunities away from folks who were born here ( yes, my Scientist angst!). It's one thing that many of them have poor English skills, but for them to get an attitude with you because you can't understand them in your country, really chaps my a**!
Try moving to a non-English speaking country and work there. Bet you can't do it.
 
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mlw03

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Try moving to a non-English speaking country and work there. Bet you can't do it.
Agree, but that's why I would not do it, and why I work in an English speaking province, not Quebec. Immigrating is a CHOICE. I respect people who do it, and recognize the challenges involved, but at the end of the day, it is a choice and thus it is incumbent on the person to learn the local language. If you want to talk about a real challenge, I think about Syrian refugees moving to Germany or Sweden - not easy transitions for an Arabic speaker. English is at least the world's lingua franca, and French was a colonial language in the Levant. But someone who moves of their own free will... learn the language.
 
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TheTao

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"Try moving to a non-English speaking country and work there. Bet you can't do it."

And I bet I'd NEVER want to.

Of course it that country is Spain or Mexico, I'd be in great shape given that I'm bilingual so chill on the assumptions dude/dudette.;)

But if I did want move to a non-English speaking country I strenuously doubt I'd have ANY chance getting a job before those who are born in that country. Or even better, having a research group that consisted of Americans only. In fact, I'm certain that would be damn near impossible as an American woman.
 

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But if I did want move to a non-English speaking country I strenuously doubt I'd have ANY chance getting a job before those who are born in that country.
And I bet that would not be due to the language issue, but because of your attitude.
 
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Pollux, why no more interesting cases...moved on now that you're in fellowship? There were some good ones. It kept us community types on our toes as we don't see the zebras as often as the academics do.
 
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Pollux

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Pollux, why no more interesting cases...moved on now that you're in fellowship? There were some good ones. It kept us community types on our toes as we don't see the zebras as often as the acdemics do.
Yup fellowship has been keeping me fairly busy, but I'll try to post some cases once in a while. I see a lot of zebra cases nowadays. :)
 

TheTao

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"And I bet that would not be due to the language issue, but because of your attitude."

Yes, I ABSOLUTELY have an "attitude" about foreigners taking positions from Americans. And if they're going to live here, all I'd ask is that they leave their often misogynous pr*ck attitudes in the countries they left. And throw yours in there for good measure.;)
 

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Yes, I ABSOLUTELY have an "attitude" about foreigners taking positions from Americans. And if they're going to live here, all I'd ask is that they leave their often misogynous pr*ck attitudes in the countries they left. And throw yours in there for good measure.;)
I doubt that I'm taking positions from Americans like you. You're not even an MD.
 
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TheTao

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"I doubt that I'm taking positions from Americans like you. You're not even an MD".

Let me guess, the mysogynous pr*ck comment struck a nerve?

I hope you end up working for a woman for the rest of your career!!!!;)
 
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Non-American IMG here, from a country where English is not the primary language.

Any country benefits from attracting the best physicians (or scientists) from around the world. Personally, if I ever get a serious illness, I want to receive the best medical care available; I really don't care what country the provider was born in.

That said, part of what makes a good physician is communication and social skills. No doubt it helps if one becomes fluent in whatever language s/he is practicing in.
 
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But if I did want move to a non-English speaking country I strenuously doubt I'd have ANY chance getting a job before those who are born in that country. Or even better, having a research group that consisted of Americans only. In fact, I'm certain that would be damn near impossible as an American woman.
I know many American scientists who have emigrated and taken their research groups with them. It's not at all impossible and in fact in some fields it's pretty common. I personally know people who packed up and left for Singapore, India, Japan, China, Dubai, and the UAE. (Granted English is pretty widely spoken in at least some of these countries). Anyway it's not at all impossible to move abroad as a research scientist and especially in countries trying to build up programs in basic research, US scientists are often welcomed with open arms.
 
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I have no issue with recruiting top-notch foreign physicians.

I vehemently oppose recruiting ANY foreign physician, regardless of suitability for practice, because there is a shortage of domestic interest in whatever particular field or geographic region, or because foreign doctors are more desperate and therefore more likely to produce more work for less money and hassle (notice how I did not mention quality?).
 

TheTao

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The willingness to work for less money and/or for FREE as I've often observed in Academia, is the reason many Scientists have to do multiple postdocs and also why salaries are ridiculously LOW.

Physicians have done a pretty good job "protecting their turf" from foreign invasion.
 

Pollux

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Let me guess, the mysogynous pr*ck comment struck a nerve?

I hope you end up working for a woman for the rest of your career!!!!;)
I have no issue working for female bosses. I do have a problem working for closed-minded, xenophobic women like you.
 
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TheTao

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"I know many American scientists who have emigrated and taken their research groups with them. It's not at all impossible and in fact in some fields it's pretty common."

I've seen this as well, Indian Scientists (whether or not they were born in the US) returning/moving to India, Chinese Scientists to China, or Asian Scientists to any other Asian country. What I have not seen is a Scientist that does not share culture with a foreign country going to that country for long term work as a Scientist.
 

mlw03

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Glad this thread has stayed on focus, civil, and productive.

Let's try to keep the comments relevant and not insulting. I think most of us would agree with this statement: 'Proficiency, both verbal and written, in the local language is an important part of being a successful physician.' Let's move on.
 

Jamie561

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"I doubt that I'm taking positions from Americans like you. You're not even an MD".

Let me guess, the mysogynous pr*ck comment struck a nerve?

I hope you end up working for a woman for the rest of your career!!!!;)
Really, just wow