Chances with 25 MCAT

[Anthrobiochem]

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So I just got my MCAT scores, they're a 25; 11VR, 9 Bio, and 5PS. What do you think my chances are if I apply broadly to just DO schools? I have a 3.7 cumulative GPA and a 3.5 science. I have two bachelors degrees (anthropology and bio w/chem minor) and a masters in geo-science. I'm also an army veteran who served in Afghanistan (if you think that might help at all). I think if it were a little higher or a little lower it would be easier to decide whether to retake it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Low to almost none. You need to retake.

 

[Major]

OP, do you mean apply this cycle or the upcoming 2015-2016 cycle?

 

[TheDarkNeuron]

.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Low to almost none. You need to retake.

So I just got my MCAT scores, they're a 25; 11VR, 9 Bio, and 5PS. What do you think my chances are if I apply broadly to just DO schools? I have a 3.7 cumulative GPA and a 3.5 science. I have two bachelors degrees (anthropology and bio w/chem minor) and a masters in geo-science. I'm also an army veteran who served in Afghanistan (if you think that might help at all). I think if it were a little higher or a little lower it would be easier to decide whether to retake it.

I'm not sure but I think being a vet will help you. I'm going to tag @Goro so we can be sure. 25 is on the lower side and that 5 is a killer but your GPA is good.I would say retake to try and get a more balanced score. However you might stand a chance if you apply wisely!

 

[Anthrobiochem]

OP, do you mean apply this cycle or the upcoming 2015-2016 cycle?

I'm talking about the upcoming cycle.

 

[Mad Jack]

A 5 in PS is an app killer literally anywhere.

You would stand a great chance if you retook and got whatever the new equivalent of a balanced 8/8/8 or higher is, but a 5 in PS shows that you likely lack some of the core knowledge to successfully complete a medical school curriculum.

 

[Anthrobiochem]

I know LECOM for instance states on their website that they consider 24 to be competitive. It's really more the imbalance that seems problematic

 

[Major]

I'm talking about the upcoming cycle.

Gotcha. That 5 hurts, but some DO schools look at the overall score and others break it down. Example, PCOM says you need at least an 8 in each section. Others state you need atleast a 21 minimum. Just depends.

 

[Anthrobiochem]

A 5 in PS is an app killer literally anywhere.

You would stand a great chance if you retook and got whatever the new equivalent of a balanced 8/8/8 or higher is, but a 5 in PS shows that you likely lack some of the core knowledge to successfully complete a medical school curriculum.

I've never been good at quickly doing arithmetic in my head, which is what most of the PS section seemed like. I'm sure how relevant that is to medical school.

 

[MrChance2]

I would say its very unlikely. Most of the people that get in with ~25 MCAT these days have masters degrees.

 

[MrChance2]

I've never been good at quickly doing arithmetic in my head, which is what most of the PS section seemed like. I'm sure how relevant that is to medical school.

quick mental math is essentially completely useless during medical school. That said I don't think it entirely explains a 5 PS.

 

[ananasmed]

It's not the 25 that is the problem. It's the 5. Without question. I understand your situation as I also struggled with PS - but unfortunately you need to retake. Even if the schools don't specifically say they prefer >8 or 24 or whatnot, this 5 will get you screened out.

 

[Mad Jack]

I've never been good at quickly doing arithmetic in my head, which is what most of the PS section seemed like. I'm sure how relevant that is to medical school.

That's why they give you scratch paper. 90% of the problems on the MCAT can be solved with simple two digit (round most anything larger or smaller) multiplication by hand, but only if you understand the concepts presented. A great number of the problems are also conceptual and not numerical- to get a five means you missed the majority of these as well.

I'm just giving you an honest assessment as to how the adcoms will view a 5 in PS, whether it's fair or not. While your ability to do the mathematical equations will not be important in medical school, your ability to understand the concepts presented and break them down to a simple and fairly easy to solve problem will. It isn't about the material, it's about how you think. Accepting you would be a risk of unacceptable magnitude, unfortunately.

 

[DocWinter]

Wow, a lot of harsh opinions. The average at most of the newer schools is about a 26. So you're in the ballpark. I know ALOT of people who get accepted with a 25. Personally, a lot.
Your flaw is the 5 in ps. You should retake. Your 25 is about as attractive as a balanced 22/23. You have a chance, but if you have the chance to retake, I would like your odds much better

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I personally know two people that got in with a 25.

Unlikely with a 5 in PS and a lackluster 9 in BS. It's really unimpressive and doesn't communicate to me assurances that the OP will do well on the comlex or usmle.

 

[Osteopath999]

OP, you are almost there in terms of the MCAT.... Bringing up your PS score is not really hard. Try to spend more time going over the concepts and practice tests, and I am sure you can bring that up to a 10 at least. But with the change in 2015 MCAT version, be prepared to learn some more materials. Best of luck !

 

[Anthrobiochem]

OP, you are almost there in terms of the MCAT.... Bringing up your PS score is not really hard. Try to spend more time going over the concepts and practice tests, and I am sure you can bring that up to a 10 at least. But with the change in 2015 MCAT version, be prepared to learn some more materials. Best of luck !

Thanks for the encouragement, and thanks to everyone else for your replies. I'll probably just retake it. Standardized tests have never been something I'm good at and reasoning out problems (mathematical or conceptual) within a rigid time limit seems almost nonsequitur to being successful in med school. I have A's in pretty much all my anatomy and genetics based classes and have very disciplined study habits. It is what it is though. I just wanted to get an appropriate feel for the reality of my situation. Thanks for helping with that.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Thanks for the encouragement, and thanks to everyone else for your replies. I'll probably just retake it. Standardized tests have never been something I'm good at and reasoning out problems (mathematical or conceptual) within a rigid time limit seems almost nonsequitur to being successful in med school. I have A's in pretty much all my anatomy and genetics based classes and have very disciplined study habits. It is what it is though. I just wanted to get an appropriate feel for the reality of my situation. Thanks for helping with that.

Don't retake until you're ready!

 

[Major]

Unlikely with a 5 in PS and a lackluster 9 in BS. It's really unimpressive and doesn't communicate to me assurances that the OP will do well on the comlex or usmle.

 

[Goro]

First off, many thanks to you for your service to our country.

While I am very fond of veterans, I am inclined to suggest a retake, but only after fixing your deficits. I'm worried about either your test taking ability, or your endurance. You need to be able to excel in multiple areas, not master 2/3.

Even with a 25, there are a number of DO schools for which you're competitive. I would rule out CCOM, the NY and CA Touros, Western, KCUMB and AZCOM. The newest schools will probably give you the most love.

So I just got my MCAT scores, they're a 25; 11VR, 9 Bio, and 5PS. What do you think my chances are if I apply broadly to just DO schools? I have a 3.7 cumulative GPA and a 3.5 science. I have two bachelors degrees (anthropology and bio w/chem minor) and a masters in geo-science. I'm also an army veteran who served in Afghanistan (if you think that might help at all). I think if it were a little higher or a little lower it would be easier to decide whether to retake it.

While schools have stated minimums, there are actually what I call effective minimums. The floor for a school that says 21 is probably 24 in reality.

Gotcha. That 5 hurts, but some DO schools look at the overall score and others break it down. Example, PCOM says you need at least an 8 in each section. Others state you need atleast a 21 minimum. Just depends.

This is NOT conducive to success in medical school, alas. We're addicted to standardized tests, and we like people to be able to engage in 2nd and 3rd order level reasoning, in, yes, short periods of time.
Standardized tests have never been something I'm good at and reasoning out problems (mathematical or conceptual) within a rigid time limit seems almost nonsequitur to being successful in med school.

 

[Goro]

Actually, there's a good data showing that poor MCAT performance is a risk factor for failing Step I, and/or failing out of medical school.

 

[Major]

@ Goro

I wasn't trying to make an argument for or against mcat/step 1 score comparisons. Just poking a lil fun is all

 

[DocWinter]

@ Goro

I wasn't trying to make an argument for or against mcat/step 1 score comparisons. Just poking a lil fun is all

I don't blame you. The internet is a great outlet for people to impress other with how much they think they know about something they have never experienced.... ah gunners...

 

[ZooPoo]

I got accepted with a 25. Getting an interview will be the tough part for you (as it was for me), but if you do you can explain. I have a pretty solid research background (authorship on a few publications) and I basically said "Look, I thought research was a more productive use of my time than studying for an exam."

It worked for 2 out of the 8 schools I applied to, lol.

 

[bcurtis]

Good advice here. I would say that you would be a real underdog if you applied with a 25 (especially with a 5 subscore). Just retake and hit a more balanced 27ish and up and you're golden.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Haven't seen that meme in a while.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I don't blame you. The internet is a great outlet for people to impress other with how much they think they know about something they have never experienced.... ah gunners...

I don't think I'm really a gunner tbh. I'm not saying that you need a 35, but to deny that showing some issue with the Mcat is not correlated or exactly an ideal position to be in.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Refer to this thread for a little optimism: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/25-mcat-what-are-my-chances-at-do.1010934/

 

[cabinbuilder]

I know that I went to school in 2001 with a 24 MCAT but my breakdown was 8,8,8 so I would agree the overall number is ok, but the breakdown is not. The entire course of medical school, the board exams, the residency inservice exams, the SHELF exams during rotations, the board certifying exams are ALL standardized multiple choice exams. If you are a poor test taker (I struggled) you will always be on the verge of failing out and not passing, etc. It becomes important if you end up failing any portion of the STEP exams because states licensing boards require passing on so many tries. Many states if you fail 3 times you cannot get licensed there. In Texas if you fail any of the steps three time while in residency you are kicked out of residency and will have to find one to take you in another state.

Soooo.... Your PS on your MCAT is low. You need to retake as you will be only helping yourself for future testing requirements.

 

[user3]

I don't think I'm really a gunner tbh. I'm not saying that you need a 35, but to deny that showing some issue with the Mcat is not correlated or exactly an ideal position to be in.

I know that I went to school in 2001 with a 24 MCAT but my breakdown was 8,8,8 so I would agree the overall number is ok, but the breakdown is not. The entire course of medical school, the board exams, the residency inservice exams, the SHELF exams during rotations, the board certifying exams are ALL standardized multiple choice exams. If you are a poor test taker (I struggled) you will always be on the verge of failing out and not passing, etc. It becomes important if you end up failing any portion of the STEP exams because states licensing boards require passing on so many tries. Many states if you fail 3 times you cannot get licensed there. In Texas if you fail any of the steps three time while in residency you are kicked out of residency and will have to find one to take you in another state.

Soooo.... Your PS on your MCAT is low. You need to retake as you will be only helping yourself for future testing requirements.

anytime MCAT vs med school performance gets discussed, those with lower scores often get incited. Even at my school, the people who did poorly are often the first to state how much they despised the test and that there is zero correlation with performance.

 

[IslandStyle808]

anytime MCAT vs med school performance gets discussed, those with lower scores often get incited. Even at my school, the people who did poorly are often the first to state how much they despised the test and that there is zero correlation with performance.

Do those classmates feel like med school exams are easier to study for than the MCAT? In the sense that they get more out of what they put in.

 

[user3]

Do those classmates feel like med school exams are easier to study for than the MCAT? In the sense that they get more out of what they put in.

I don't know, they never usually say how they do. They just seem to harbor an unnecessary resentment for the MCAT (I mean, why when you're already in?).

 

[cabinbuilder]

anytime MCAT vs med school performance gets discussed, those with lower scores often get incited. Even at my school, the people who did poorly are often the first to state how much they despised the test and that there is zero correlation with performance.

I don't recall that I said this. I said you need to be up on your test taking skills from the get go because the MCAT is only the beginning and is the first of many future hateful exams to come. Don't twist my words as I was agreeing with the rest of the pack.

 

[user3]

I don't recall that I said this. I said you need to be up on your test taking skills from the get go because the MCAT is only the beginning and is the first of many future hateful exams to come. Don't twist my words as I was agreeing with the rest of the pack.

I wasn't referring to you, just mentioning something that seems to be a common response when this topic comes up.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't know, they never usually say how they do. They just seem to harbor an unnecessary resentment for the MCAT (I mean, why when you're already in?).

They probably believe that their scores might have closed a lot of doors and created a far more stressful cycle for them. This is my guess, it might be something else possibly as well.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I wasn't referring to you, just mentioning something that seems to be a common response when this topic comes up.

Ok, it sounded like you were by commenting on my post but saying the opposite what I was trying to relay.

 

[midweststudent1]

Thanks for the encouragement, and thanks to everyone else for your replies. I'll probably just retake it. Standardized tests have never been something I'm good at and reasoning out problems (mathematical or conceptual) within a rigid time limit seems almost nonsequitur to being successful in med school. I have A's in pretty much all my anatomy and genetics based classes and have very disciplined study habits. It is what it is though. I just wanted to get an appropriate feel for the reality of my situation. Thanks for helping with that.

You say that "reasoning out problems within a rigid time limit seems almost non sequitur to being successful in med school"........

That's actually complete opposite of the truth. It's sad, but I'd say 75% of succeeding in med school is being able to test well. It's something you just have to learn to do. Clinical vignettes that are a whole paragraph long and you only have 72 seconds to read, comprehend, and answer will be what decides whether you pass boards or not. So take an MCAT self assessment test, see what in particular you need to work on, and work on strategies that help you succeed. Best of luck. Keep your head up and keep working

 

[DocWinter]

anytime MCAT vs med school performance gets discussed, those with lower scores often get incited. Even at my school, the people who did poorly are often the first to state how much they despised the test and that there is zero correlation with performance.

Like cabin, that's not really how I said it. I'm making a case (like you very often have, user) for people without a 30+ MCAT to get accepted and made it through and be good docs. I did tell the OP to retake, not on the basis of a 25, but on the lopsided PS.

 

[DocWinter]

Med school exams are tough, but they're not nearly as bad as the MCAT was.

Yeah, but you have those exams every 2 weeks in medical school....

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Like cabin, that's not really how I said it. I'm making a case (like you very often have, user) for people without a 30+ MCAT to get accepted and made it through and be good docs. I did tell the OP to retake, not on the basis of a 25, but on the lopsided PS.

That's essentially what I did. I made the point that an adcom will look at the score and not like it for so and so.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Yeah, but you have those exams every 2 weeks in medical school....

Yes, or at LECOM it's EVERY MONDAY (at least when I went)

 

[user3]

Like cabin, that's not really how I said it. I'm making a case (like you very often have, user) for people without a 30+ MCAT to get accepted and made it through and be good docs. I did tell the OP to retake, not on the basis of a 25, but on the lopsided PS.

That's essentially what I did. I made the point that an adcom will look at the score and not like it for so and so.

I think he will be able to get in somewhere as is. Despite likely being able to get an acceptance, some posters seem to be expressing (or lending credence to) concerns regarding low scores or low sub-section scores and ability to handle the onslaught of medical school exams and boards. I was simply stating that there are many who vehemently object to this idea and strongly question any correlation. And with that in mind, if he can get in as is (and isn't picky), is it really worthwhile to worry about any of that?

 

[user3]

I personally know two people that got in with a 25.

I would say its very unlikely. Most of the people that get in with ~25 MCAT these days have masters degrees.

It is not unusual at all to get into DO school with a 25, master's or not.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I think he will be able to get in somewhere as is. Despite likely being able to get an acceptance, some posters seem to be expressing (or lending credence to) concerns regarding low scores or low sub-section scores and ability to handle the onslaught of medical school exams and boards. I was simply stating that there are many who vehemently object to this idea and strongly question any correlation. And with that in mind, if he can get in as is (and isn't picky), is it really worthwhile to worry about any of that?

Honestly if it were a 5-9-11 or 9-5-11 I'd say maybe. But a 5 subscore in ps and then a 9 in BS basically spells a bleak picture.

 

[user3]

Honestly if it were a 5-9-11 or 9-5-11 I'd say maybe. But a 5 subscore in ps and then a 9 in BS basically spells a bleak picture.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-my-chances-do-mcat-24-sci-3-6-gpa.1043613/

Remember this thread? She made it in with a 4 VR, and I was the only responder who predicted that she would.

TBH, getting in somewhere won't be an issue for OP. Whether a 5 PS score really poses a risk of poor performance in medical school is what seems to be concerning to people.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/what-are-my-chances-do-mcat-24-sci-3-6-gpa.1043613/

Remember this thread? She made it in with a 4 VR, and I was the only responder who predicted that she would.

TBH, getting in somewhere won't be an issue for OP. Whether a 5 PS score really poses a risk of poor performance in medical school is what seems to be concerning to people.

Idk, OP has plenty of time to push through that red spot on his app. If it were august or October it's be something different.