chances?

[mdwannabe177]

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Hi all-- I apologize if this is not the correct thread for this question. I am having a mid medical school crisis.
For the first 3.5 years of school I have been thinking I would pursue neurosurgery and did everything I could to make myself a more competitive applicant. My scores do not make me a good candidate, however, and I am stuck because I do not know what I would be as passionate about. It has been incredibly depressing to have to let go of this dream, but I am afraid that the possibility of not matching, and having to SOAP/apply the following year into something I do not want to do are very real. My question is about what I can realistically pursue with my stats:

- top 10-20? US school
- step 1, low 200s (did not know how to study, and underestimated the value of question banks!)
- step 2, low 230s
- preclinical, average except for one NH, never failed anything
- clinical, IM NH, Family NH, Neurosurg NH, otherwise passed all others with average shelf scores
- research: one neuroscience basic science publication, 4-5 abstract/poster presentations (+1-2 more before ill graduate maybe) in radiology, neurosurg, surg, 1 NIH research award during med school
- will have taken a "research/fellowship year" during medical school in an field I am not interested in, but did so to do more research, get more experience, and line myself up with my fiancé's academic schedule
- will have strong LORs
I had thought for a long time that surgery would be the natural back up for me, however, after a demoralizing meeting with a surgery advisor I have been made aware that I am not competitive for GS.

For my sanity and well-being I have eliminated pediatrics, ob/gyn, and family. Does anyone have any idea what can someone with my stats realistically pursue? I think I am drawn to high acuity, procedural specialties, but with the stats I see on sdn I am afraid that I do not have any hopes of attaining those kinds of specialties. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[pocillopora]

Just an MS1 here but...

I am not sure how interested you are in the field of neuroscience, but Neurology might be a good option for you. You have great research experience in very related fields (neurosurg and radiology) and looking at these charting outcomes (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf), applicants with your step 1 still have around a 90% chance at matching.

Also, the common joke on SDN is "as long as you have a pulse, you can match IM." I am not sure exactly the level of competitiveness of a program you would be able to match, but an IM residency would allow you to pursue further specialties that are procedural and high acuity.

 

[andrek82]

A qualification first: my knowledge of the nsg/surgery interview and match process is second hand via a friend with a research year who just matched one of his top pick neurosurgery programs. Looking at the nrmp match data linked above, just based on Step 1 you'd have a 60% chance of matching general surgery, and an 80% chance based on your Step 2CK. I wouldn't follow scores on SDN. They have significant reporting bias. Heck, you'd even have a very outside chance of neurosurgery (2/7 matched with your Step 1, 26/36 with your Step 2CK). You'd have to apply very broadly and accept that you would miss out on top programs, but strategic aways would help. I'd say neurosurgery without a backup would be a bad idea, but unless someone with more experience thinks otherwise, you have a good shot with your research to get a low/mid tier surgery spot.

 

[GoldenFish]

You have school reputation and some pretty decent research going for you, and will have taken a research year as well. What field is the research year in? Aim to be extra-productive there - go for about 5 pubs.

However, given your scores and grades, it would be extremely difficult to land any surgical subspecialty; they're just fiercely competitive, unfortunately. Your step one is going to hurt you, and your step is below the national average. Grades do not stand out - what percentage of your class gets H/HP/P?

Even GS would tough, but doable. I think, given your school rep, amount of research, and future research year (if productive or possibly relevant to GS), it should be possible to land a GS spot somewhere, assuming you rock your fourth year rotation and get great letters. Again, it would be no guarantee. You'd have to showcase that you're a team player, hard-worker, and dedicated to the field. It'd probably be best to get some other opinions on that.

If you're a really awesome person, and the research year was in Neurosurg or you could get some NSG research out during the year, I would say you could go for a dual apply with NS/GS (as long as you'd truly be happy in GS too). Whether you dual apply or just apply GS or NSG, make sure to apply very broadly. It will be expensive and a pain in the ass, but it's your career here. For neurosurg, select GOOD aways during which you can shine and could increase your chances of matching at that program.

Some other options, just off the top of my head, that you could think about: Radiology (then IR), Anesthesia (would be tougher to get a spot than Rads I think), and IM (Followed by cards/PulmCCM/GI; IM somewhere would be doable, but keep in mind that academic IM is getting more competitive and it's a big factor in getting the aforementioned competitive fellowships).

 

[Slack3r]

Hi all-- I apologize if this is not the correct thread for this question. I am having a mid medical school crisis.
For the first 3.5 years of school I have been thinking I would pursue neurosurgery and did everything I could to make myself a more competitive applicant. My scores do not make me a good candidate, however, and I am stuck because I do not know what I would be as passionate about. It has been incredibly depressing to have to let go of this dream, but I am afraid that the possibility of not matching, and having to SOAP/apply the following year into something I do not want to do are very real. My question is about what I can realistically pursue with my stats:

- top 10-20? US school
- step 1, low 200s (did not know how to study, and underestimated the value of question banks!)
- step 2, low 230s
- preclinical, average except for one NH, never failed anything
- clinical, IM NH, Family NH, Neurosurg NH, otherwise passed all others with average shelf scores
- research: one neuroscience basic science publication, 4-5 abstract/poster presentations (+1-2 more before ill graduate maybe) in radiology, neurosurg, surg, 1 NIH research award during med school
- will have taken a "research/fellowship year" during medical school in an field I am not interested in, but did so to do more research, get more experience, and line myself up with my fiancé's academic schedule
- will have strong LORs
I had thought for a long time that surgery would be the natural back up for me, however, after a demoralizing meeting with a surgery advisor I have been made aware that I am not competitive for GS.

For my sanity and well-being I have eliminated pediatrics, ob/gyn, and family. Does anyone have any idea what can someone with my stats realistically pursue? I think I am drawn to high acuity, procedural specialties, but with the stats I see on sdn I am afraid that I do not have any hopes of attaining those kinds of specialties. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

What's an NH? Is that good or bad?

Neurosurg isn't entirely out of the question, but it's definitely an uphill battle. I know someone that matched ENT with a 207. Applied to every single program and got 3 interviews, but ended up matching (all it takes is one!).

If neurosurg is truly what you want, set up some away rotations at realistic programs (you're likely not going to match at Barrow or MGH), and be ready to apply to every neurosurg program (absolutely forget couples matching). You'll also have to be ready for the probable chance of not matching and have a contingency plan (maybe dual apply neurology?).

Sounds like you have strong research experience, so that will be helpful. Identify a mentor who's willing to support you and stay in contact with them throughout the application season. Best of luck.

 

[intheworkings]

I think you still got a shot at GS.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[mdwannabe177]

What's an NH? Is that good or bad?

Neurosurg isn't entirely out of the question, but it's definitely an uphill battle. I know someone that matched ENT with a 207. Applied to every single program and got 3 interviews, but ended up matching (all it takes is one!).

If neurosurg is truly what you want, set up some away rotations at realistic programs (you're likely not going to match at Barrow or MGH), and be ready to apply to every neurosurg program (absolutely forget couples matching). You'll also have to be ready for the probable chance of not matching and have a contingency plan (maybe dual apply neurology?).

Sounds like you have strong research experience, so that will be helpful. Identify a mentor who's willing to support you and stay in contact with them throughout the application season. Best of luck.

NH=near honors. For sake of anonymity my fellowship/research year, in an unrelated speciality that I am not pursuing, is half way over. But has been very informative and educational about medicine for me though has been very time intensive and work heavy. Has resulted in additional potential LORs, and several case reports, also a potential surgery abstract, and possible publication.

Unfortunately, my PD and advisor have said they would support me but would be very difficult for me to actually match and not matching would ultimately hurt me should I have to apply again.

 

[GoldenFish]

NH=near honors. For sake of anonymity my fellowship/research year, in an unrelated speciality that I am not pursuing, is half way over. But has been very informative and educational about medicine for me though has been very time intensive and work heavy. Has resulted in additional potential LORs, and several case reports, also a potential surgery abstract, and possible publication.

Unfortunately, my PD and advisor have said they would support me but would be very difficult for me to actually match and not matching would ultimately hurt me should I have to apply again.

You're gonna get told you can't do it. I know several people who would have never even tried for their field of choice if they listened to that. The key is to realize the position you're coming from, have a solid backup plan, and be prepared to work hard. Rock your NSG home, pick good aways and rock them, get good letters and then show your best self on interview day. It only takes on interview to match man! I say go for it, if this is really what you want to do.

 

[Psai]

Get in good with the faculty and residents at your home program.

I can see you matching in gs although it probably won't be easy. At the very least, you can get a prelim spot and impress them with your work ethic to try to get a pgy-2 or at least a categorical spot

 

[pd1112]

Just an MS1 here but...

I am not sure how interested you are in the field of neuroscience, but Neurology might be a good option for you. You have great research experience in very related fields (neurosurg and radiology) and looking at these charting outcomes (http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf), applicants with your step 1 still have around a 90% chance at matching.

Also, the common joke on SDN is "as long as you have a pulse, you can match IM." I am not sure exactly the level of competitiveness of a program you would be able to match, but an IM residency would allow you to pursue further specialties that are procedural and high acuity.

A qualification first: my knowledge of the nsg/surgery interview and match process is second hand via a friend with a research year who just matched one of his top pick neurosurgery programs. Looking at the nrmp match data linked above, just based on Step 1 you'd have a 60% chance of matching general surgery, and an 80% chance based on your Step 2CK. I wouldn't follow scores on SDN. They have significant reporting bias. Heck, you'd even have a very outside chance of neurosurgery (2/7 matched with your Step 1, 26/36 with your Step 2CK). You'd have to apply very broadly and accept that you would miss out on top programs, but strategic aways would help. I'd say neurosurgery without a backup would be a bad idea, but unless someone with more experience thinks otherwise, you have a good shot with your research to get a low/mid tier surgery spot.

This is the problem with CTO. You can't meaningfully use the majority of the data because you see each statistical category independently from the others. So it basically shouldn't ever be used in the way you're using it.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[mdwannabe177]

Thanks pd1112, but unfortunately it's one of the few things out there that we have to guide us. Any other helpful tips?