Changing jobs?

[raindrop]

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Hello all,

As some of you may know, I am a RPh with CVS. I've been thinking of jumping ship and signing on with another company. If I decide to do this, how should I handle it? Call my DM and leave him a voice mail message to call me (at work? at home? at the other job? j/k) E-Mail him? Send him a letter via snail mail? Find out which store he's visiting and confront him there?

Also, the DM of the OTHER company has made some nice offers. Everyone is telling me to "get it in writing" How does that work? Does it make me seem paranoid and unwilling to trust? Do I say "No dice until it's on paper?"

I also ask because when I signed with CVS, years ago, the DM's didn't fulfill all their "promises" and when I confronted them, they said they "couldn't recall" making them in the first place. 😡

So, if I ask for it in writing, is it done on company letterhead, typewritten, like a contract? I've never done this before. Should it be notarized? 😕

All input greatly appreciated.

Lynn e-mail

PS - for some details on why I'm thinking of jumping ship, read my blog on
Xanga

 

[tupac_don]

Hello all,

As some of you may know, I am a RPh with CVS. I've been thinking of jumping ship and signing on with another company. If I decide to do this, how should I handle it? Call my DM and leave him a voice mail message to call me (at work? at home? at the other job? j/k) E-Mail him? Send him a letter via snail mail? Find out which store he's visiting and confront him there?

Also, the DM of the OTHER company has made some nice offers. Everyone is telling me to "get it in writing" How does that work? Does it make me seem paranoid and unwilling to trust? Do I say "No dice until it's on paper?"

I also ask because when I signed with CVS, years ago, the DM's didn't fulfill all their "promises" and when I confronted them, they said they "couldn't recall" making them in the first place. 😡

So, if I ask for it in writing, is it done on company letterhead, typewritten, like a contract? I've never done this before. Should it be notarized? 😕

All input greatly appreciated.

Lynn e-mail

PS - for some details on why I'm thinking of jumping ship, read my blog on
Xanga

Tell them you are intrested in their company, but unfortunately you had a bad experience in the past and wanted to know if they can make the offer official put it in writing. Or in the contract itself. You have to play hardball. If they try to wiggle out of it, be firm and say that although you are very interested, you need to have some assurance. As far as CVS is concerned, I think you have to talk first with your manager and advise him/her that you are leaving, and then maybe a week later, follow up to your DM. You might even say that you like the company (CVS I mean) and if they are willing to give you what the other company offers, you would stay. But then I don't know if you like it at CVS or not. But yea, when you negotiate make sure that everything is in writing. B/c they will promise you anything/everything until you sign up, once you do, then it's like ok whatever we got him and that's it. Good luck to you.

 

[bananaface]

A written letter of resignation is always appropriate. However, it might be best to ask your DM to schedule a conference with you, telling him you have something you would like to discuss in person. Then you can break the news to him and give him the official letter for your file. The letter can simply say that you are resigning because you have recieved and accepted an offer elsewhere and specify your last day of availability. Honestly, there may come a time when you are again looking for a job and CVS may be one of your options. Never burn your bridges. You can say that you have enjoyed your career at CVS but will be leaving to pursue other opportunities. Be euphamistic. For all you know you may get a counter offer and decide to take it.

I agree that getting an offer in writing is the best thing. You really shouldn't have to justify yourself for asking for a written offer. You can tell just them that you would like to have a written offer in hand before you give notice to your current employer. Your new potential employer would not feel mistrusted if you phrased it that way since they would probably feel the same way if they were in your shoes. And, it gives them an incentive to give you an offer quickly. If they ask you why you want a written offer and give you a mistrusting glare, run for your life! 😱 Either that or play hardball and say, "(Ahem) Is there a problem with that?." 😎 They will probably give you a typed, signed letter on company letterhead. But, as long as it is a job offer addressed to you from them with a signature then that is good enough to hold them to in court.

Are you worried that your DM will try to give you a guilt trip? He knows that few people stay with one company forever. Having to replace people is just a part of his job description. If it was easy, he wouldn't make so much money. You should never have to feel bad for moving to a new position if it is a better fit for you. It's about your life, not his.

 

[GravyRPH]

I've always just told my store manager. That usually gets the ball rolling, and your DM will probably call YOU within the day. If he/she doesn't, I'd consider it an insult. I never bothered wasting time writing a resignation letter either, and I never had a problem with burning any bridges. I was always honest in my reasons for leaving. But I guess honesty appears to be a rare feat nowadays for fear of confrontation...? Don't be rude about it, or flip the DM off, but be frank. Afterall, it might actually improve the job for the next person. Anyhow...

Definitely get it in writing. Just simply ask. Usually there will the list of promises and places for you and your DM to sign. Don't be so concerned with what other people will think. Trust me, they would do the same if they were in your position.

 

[bananaface]

I think raindrop IS the pharmacy manager. Am I wrong?

 

[MALA]

It is normal business practice to wait for your offer letter before starting a a new job. Your salary in addition to stock options vacation time or whatever you negotiated for needs to be stated in the offer letter. Do not start the other job until you receive that offer in writing. Until you have confirmed 100% that you are going to start with the other company, do not speak with anyone. Once you have accepted the other offer, your only obligation is to give 2 weeks notice, and you can also let them know that this other opportunity was excellent and you couldn't pass it up. Who knows? they may counter-offer if they don't want to lose you.
That's not burning bridges, it's just business and it happens everyday.

 

[GravyRPH]

Not the pharmacy manager. The Store manager.

Also, don't forget to notify the State Board if required in your state. In California, you must notify them in writing within 30 days that you have left your management position. I have faxed it my last day with the exact time and date that I will no longer be the responsible party for whatever may go wrong after I'm gone.

 

[bananaface]

If the store manager doesn't have to power to hire/fire you why would they be the one you direct your notice to? It would be nice of you to tell the store manager personally soon after you give notice. But, the DM is the one who will end up releasing and replacing you so I still lean towards the DM being the one you officially notify of your plans to leave.

I would also be worried that without a paper letter they could choose to dispute your claim as to which day you gave notice. Once one of my previous employers tried that tactic. But, the paper letter in my file was there to back me up.

 

[jdpharmd?]

I would also be worried that without a paper letter they could choose to dispute your claim as to which day you gave notice. Once one of my previous employers tried that tactic. But, the paper letter in my file was there to back me up.

You're free to leave at any time. It's polite to give 30 days notice, but you can leave whenever you want. Were they trying to jail you or something? Was this under communism? 😀 You're quitting the job. I don't really think you would care all that much about their opinions.

 

[bananaface]

Were they trying to jail you or something?

Working there felt like jail. Does that count? 😛

I was taught that two weeks notice is proper, regardless of whether you are "at will" or not. Isn't one of the questions places calling to verify job history can ask is if you gave notice before leaving? Maybe it isn't. I just worry that they will ask anyway. It was my birthday when I gave them my letter of resignation. I should have given myself a better present and just gone home. 🙄

 

[28657]

Isn't one of the questions places calling to verify job history can ask is if you gave notice before leaving?

The only question future employers are "allowed" to ask past employers are the dates of your employment. That being said, I think we all know they delve a little deeper than that sometimes.

 

[GravyRPH]

If the store manager doesn't have to power to hire/fire you why would they be the one you direct your notice to? It would be nice of you to tell the store manager personally soon after you give notice. But, the DM is the one who will end up releasing and replacing you so I still lean towards the DM being the one you officially notify of your plans to leave.

I've always had a much closer relationship with my store manager then my DM. In stores I have worked, my store manager was still considered "over" me, but that may be different elsewhere. I've never really liked my DM's. I think they all go through a-hole school before they start the position, so I never felt inclined to talk to them first. Yet, I know they would still hire me back if they could.

 

[loo]

raindrop--

I know how you feel. I worked for CVS for over 10 years and was treated like crap until I finally had enough and quit. The only reason I did not leave earlier was the loyalty I felt towards my partner.

No job is worth it if it is stressing you out. I, too was hesitant to embrace change, but I unlocked the the golden handcuffs and found another job immediately with a better company.

You can too. PM me if you want.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Once you have some firm offers run it up the flag pole to see who salutes.
You may be pleasantly suprised.

The way to get ahead in the pharmacy industry is by running across the street. Two examples. At my hospital in Ft Worth you could expect 7% if you walked on water. A 4% raise was more typical. A colleague got frustrated and ran off to Childrens Hospital in Dallas for 12%. He stayed for a year and came back home for 12% once again. A net gain over two years of 24% compared to the 8% he would have gotten. Hardball works.

Another fellow went through the motions of leaving his position as assistant director ar Arlington memorial to be director at my hospital. It was a done deal and we were expecting him to come. Once he had it in the bag he ran it up the flagpole at his home base. They couldn't stand the idea of his leaving and made him an offer he could not refuse. I don't know what it was but it topped the directors pay at my place. At the last minute he declined our offer and remained where he was.

With an offer in the bag air your grievances openly. Do not make idle threats. Pack your bags and be prepared to leave. Your only loyalty is to your license and the best offer. With that attitude you hold all the cards **UNLESS** you are trying to move to a highly coveted area such as Colorado Springs. In such a place the employer holds all the cards

I left Walgreens after five years for Rite Aid. Walgreens offered me squat to move. Rite Aid offered me a package which topped twenty grand in return for two years. Once on board I realized how bad twelve hour shifts suck and started making noise. What I wanted was to split the days apart. No 12 hour days back to back. Initially I was ignored, then I made noises about returning to Walgreens and their eight hour shifts. My store has NEVER had a second pharmacist. I got what I wanted; a four day work week 13 miles from my home at five dollars an hour more than I was making previously with only one twelve hour day a week. I have died and gone to pharmacy heaven. The only better deal is to have your spouse work for the same money and you stay home....or win the lotto and you both stay home.

There is one better deal. I am sending my wife to pharmacy school. Once she graduates we will both work for Rite Aid two twelve hour days a week making one full time schedule. It just doesn't get any better than that. Well maybe. A two pharmacist family I knew in Florida both worked night shift for Walgreens on the same week. Seven days on, seven days off. They could sleep together all the time and have TWO count them TWO seven day vacations each month. Carefully planned you can travel on such a schedule and together they are making **VERY** good money

 

[raindrop]

But yea, when you negotiate make sure that everything is in writing. B/c they will promise you anything/everything until you sign up, once you do, then it's like ok whatever we got him and that's it. Good luck to you.

Thanks, that's exactly what happened with CVS. They promised me WXYZ but only delivered on W and some of X. I was too trusting and naive to question them.

Are you worried that your DM will try to give you a guilt trip? He knows that few people stay with one company forever. Having to replace people is just a part of his job description. If it was easy, he wouldn't make so much money. You should never have to feel bad for moving to a new position if it is a better fit for you. It's about your life, not his.

You hit the nail on the head, Banana. For some reason, I do feel a sense of loyalty and guily. Not sure why, but probably because it's part of my nature. I'll have to mentally prepare myself for when (if) I actually decide to leave so that he won't give me a guilt trip.

Definitely get it in writing. Just simply ask. Usually there will the list of promises and places for you and your DM to sign.

Really? Like when I bought my house, the contract had 4 pages to sign and I had no idea what the heck I was signing/initialing. I don't know the first thing about contracts (never had to have one) so this is all new to me.

The only question future employers are "allowed" to ask past employers are the dates of your employment. That being said, I think we all know they delve a little deeper than that sometimes.

That's funny, because I didn't know that a few months ago. Someone called me asking about a former tech and I just let it all out, the good, the bad and all the ugly. For my newest tech, when I called her previous employer, they wouldn't tell me much, other than they would rehire her if given the opportunity. It's too bad you can't get all the dirt on ppl before you hire them.

I know how you feel. I worked for CVS for over 10 years and was treated like crap until I finally had enough and quit. The only reason I did not leave earlier was the loyalty I felt towards my partner.

Like you, I feel a sense of loyalty. To my company, my store, my partner, my manager, my front store crew and most of all, my patients. But as many have told me, I gotta look out for #1. Sad and invigorating at the same time.

 

[bananaface]

I think a "Letter of Intent" is what you would call this letter you are asking to be provided with.

 

[raindrop]

Well, I went to meet the RPh working at the store (I would be his partner, and also his pharmacist-in-charge) The pharmacy is so tiny! The company doesn't have their own warehouse for meds, so everything is ordered through the outside vendor. Most everything on the shelf was a half-bottle full (Not like the dozens of bottles of one item I'm used to at CVS)

After I met with him, and walked around the pharmacy, I went home with a major anxiety attack. I didn't know it at the time, but I felt SO uneasy and my stomach was all in knots. I felt like puking, but really really didn't want to. I felt miserable, almost like I had the flu. I was asking myself, "Should I take this job? Can I adapt to this new pharmacy? Will I figure out the computer system? "

Of course, it makes it worse that it's a low volume store, aka minimal tech help store. I don't know if, even after a round of training, I'll feel comfortable on my own lonesome self without anyone helping me.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Well, I went to meet the RPh working at the store (I would be his partner, and also his pharmacist-in-charge) The pharmacy is so tiny! The company doesn't have their own warehouse for meds, so everything is ordered through the outside vendor. Most everything on the shelf was a half-bottle full (Not like the dozens of bottles of one item I'm used to at CVS)

After I met with him, and walked around the pharmacy, I went home with a major anxiety attack. I didn't know it at the time, but I felt SO uneasy and my stomach was all in knots. I felt like puking, but really really didn't want to. I felt miserable, almost like I had the flu. I was asking myself, "Should I take this job? Can I adapt to this new pharmacy? Will I figure out the computer system? "

Of course, it makes it worse that it's a low volume store, aka minimal tech help store. I don't know if, even after a round of training, I'll feel comfortable on my own lonesome self without anyone helping me.

I made the transition from hospital to retail several years ago and had some anxiety as you described over my ability to handle the work flow in a busy store. My suggestion to help you over this hump would be to ease into the transition by doing some floating. Some nice Sunday shifts to test the water and see if you like it. If they really want you they will understand and help you through the transition

 

[raindrop]

I made the transition from hospital to retail several years ago and had some anxiety as you described over my ability to handle the work flow in a busy store. My suggestion to help you over this hump would be to ease into the transition by doing some floating. Some nice Sunday shifts to test the water and see if you like it. If they really want you they will understand and help you through the transition

Thanks, it's a good idea, BUT, since both are retail chains, it'd be a conflict to work for two different competitors.

Also, they offered my a $7,500 sign-on bonus for a 3 yr contract. The bonus is NOT prorated if I leave, meaning, if I leave after 2 yrs, I'd have to give the whole $7,500 and not just $2,500. I think I'm gonna ask them to prorate it. It's a big commitment; what if I don't like it (and I've already spent the money 😀 ?) I feel very uncomfortable with that part and I think I'll tell them no dice if it's not prorated.

Any other suggestions?

 

[GravyRPH]

Have you "shopped around". That doesn't seem like a very big bonus for an awful long time. But, I suppose I'm just used to California rates. I'm thinking more like 20k for 2 years.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Have you "shopped around". That doesn't seem like a very big bonus for an awful long time. But, I suppose I'm just used to California rates. I'm thinking more like 20k for 2 years.

Agreed. I think it's 10-20k for 2 years around here.

 

[bananaface]

raindrop, is this a job you would consider if you were unemployed or are you just wanting away from CVS really badly? It sounds like you might be uncomfortable with more than just leaving your old job.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Thanks, it's a good idea, BUT, since both are retail chains, it'd be a conflict to work for two different competitors.

Also, they offered my a $7,500 sign-on bonus for a 3 yr contract. The bonus is NOT prorated if I leave, meaning, if I leave after 2 yrs, I'd have to give the whole $7,500 and not just $2,500. I think I'm gonna ask them to prorate it. It's a big commitment; what if I don't like it (and I've already spent the money 😀 ?) I feel very uncomfortable with that part and I think I'll tell them no dice if it's not prorated.

Any other suggestions?

Take the bonus and sock it away in the bank for an appropriate probationary period. If you don't like it you are free to go. CVS would welcome you home with open arms AND you would not necessarily have to be a manager.

I view being PIC as a liability that the extra twentyfive cents an hour does not justify 🙁

 

[raindrop]

raindrop, is this a job you would consider if you were unemployed or are you just wanting away from CVS really badly? It sounds like you might be uncomfortable with more than just leaving your old job.

I'm getting anxiety attacks thinking about working in a new store, new company, new computer system with no help. I think I might turn down the offer after all. (I'm SO conflicted) Who knows, they might sweeten the deal?

Also, I might tell my current DM that I received an offer. Wonder if they'll do anything to get me to stay?

 

[J Lucas]

Also, I might tell my current DM that I received an offer. Wonder if they'll do anything to get me to stay?

I think thats your best option right now. Lets play Ball!

 

[jdpharmd?]

I'm getting anxiety attacks thinking about working in a new store, new company, new computer system with no help. I think I might turn down the offer after all. (I'm SO conflicted) Who knows, they might sweeten the deal?

Also, I might tell my current DM that I received an offer. Wonder if they'll do anything to get me to stay?

Your situation will never improve if you don't have the courage to do anything about it. I'd say that's pretty much the cause of all your problems.

 

[GravyRPH]

It's also unlikely they will give you anything unless you actually give a 2 week notice. Even then, more likely than not they will let you go. Either way, you must be willing to follow through with leaving if they don't bite.

 

[bananaface]

I agree with Gravy that you should not try to use the offer as a negotiation point unless you are actually willing to take the new offer. Also, I thought you were looking fo a new job to improve your working conditions, not to entice CVS to raise your income. Why would you stay at CVS under any conditions if you don't like it? What is it about CVS you would need to chage to make it a good job for you? Is there a possibility of negotiating these things with your DM?

To make positive changes in your life you are eventually going to have to learn to become your own advocate. I know that it is hard for you to put yourself before others much of the time. But, when it comes down to it, you deserve to be happy with your job. It is such a big part of your life that you can't just let it go because you are worried about disappointing other people. They will adapt when you move on. But, you could be unhappy forever if you continue to work someplace you do not enjoy.

Learning a new store would be like learning the CVS system for the first time, or moving to a new rotation site during the last year of pharmacy school. You are definitely capaple of making the transition if you choose to. The basic functions you perform at any store are all the same, even though there are variations in the execution sequence.

 

[GravyRPH]

Very well said. I think all of us know, except Raindrop, that she would have no problems switching companies. Or even switching to in-patient. I have been there, and I also had anxiety over it. In the end, it was well worth the initial stress it produced for a better life in the long run.

 

[baggywrinkle]

Go Raindrop Go!

We support you!

 

[raindrop]

Well, I decided to take the job. Panic attacks aside, I think it will be a good move for me. Not that I think CVS is a bad company, I actually think it's a good company. I just think my DM is irresponsible and unresponsive to my needs. I'd rather stay in my area and switch companies than stay with my company and move away.

I meet with my current DM's shortly to "announce" my decision. I have already talked to other pharmacists about my decision, so I strongly suspect that my DM's are already aware.

I have to prepare myself for the counter-offer. What if it's very generous? I already told the other DM I'd take the job. Actually, if it's very generous, I might be insulted, because, hey, you didn't reward me when I was working, you just want to bribe me to stay.

Wish me luck, everyone. I've been a RPh for about 7 years, but this is all so new to me.

 

[JD_USD]

Well, I decided to take the job. Panic attacks aside, I think it will be a good move for me. Not that I think CVS is a bad company, I actually think it's a good company. I just think my DM is irresponsible and unresponsive to my needs. I'd rather stay in my area and switch companies than stay with my company and move away.

I meet with my current DM's shortly to "announce" my decision. I have already talked to other pharmacists about my decision, so I strongly suspect that my DM's are already aware.

I have to prepare myself for the counter-offer. What if it's very generous? I already told the other DM I'd take the job. Actually, if it's very generous, I might be insulted, because, hey, you didn't reward me when I was working, you just want to bribe me to stay.

Wish me luck, everyone. I've been a RPh for about 7 years, but this is all so new to me.

Good luck Raindrop

I'm sure you'll be their best RPh once you get comfortable!

 

[GravyRPH]

Rock on Lynn! I hope things will be a BIG improvement. Next time you switch for another big bonus will be that much easier. 😉

 

[npp71681]

Hi!
raindrop,

GO for it!
"To get something, you've to loose something"
YOU can do it!

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[GravyRPH]

Just don't loosen it too much, or it might fall off. And that'd be bad news. 😉

 

[loo]

Good for you! It says a lot about a company when you have to quit to get their attention. Don't look back---it's their loss, not yours!