Changing residency before July 1st

[NeisseriaGon]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

r/podiatry deleted my post for some odd reason. But here it is,

I was a person who was unfortunately bamboozled by programs. So If I absolutely did not want to go to my matched residency, and wanted to pick something off the list of unfilled positions, how would someone go about that?

 

[heybrother]

You need to talk to your school or one the organizations that runs the match. I don't know that I've ever seen a discussion about this on a podiatry forum. For the MDs they have a bunch of rules related to "Match Violations" that have consequences. It is entirely possible we have them too - it just doesn't come up very often.

Obviously, this forum would love it if you described your bamboozling.

 

[I Drink Riesling]

I personally have seen this happen. It is possible, but it’s highly frowned upon. We even got an email from CPME themselves that this is taboo as you matching to a program is like a verbal contract, but as long as you have not yet signed a paper contract, you’re not married to a program. Another case is you do a few weeks at your matched program before transferring to your new one. Good luck.

 

[Bluecollarmed]

Not to be that guy but why did you rank a program you didn’t want to go to?

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Not to be that guy but why did you rank a program you didn’t want to go to?

 

[itiswhatitis99]

Ngl I’m kinda in same boat. I ranked a program as my absolute back up and somehow ended up there. I didn’t even rotate there, but interviewed and ranked them just in case, and well.. that’s exactly what happened.

Now I’m second guessing it bc the town is far away from family and my partner. They’re a good program and talked about highly amongst peers that rotated there, but a part of me isn’t exactly happy with how it played out, and I’m lowkey softly reading up on how to switch programs and stuff.

I might just stick with it, but I feel played bc one of the programs I was very fond of that told me they liked me somehow still has an open spot.

So I feel you

 

[deleted1235332]

Nowadays there’s good slots in the mp2. You guys shouldn’t be ranking programs you wouldn’t be happy going to. I’m always amazed how many people don’t understand how the match works before they go in it.

 

[Sole Badguy]

I personally haven't seen anybody switch residencies before match, but I have seen it happen for a couple of classmates afterwards. From what I saw, either they:
1. transfer into an unfilled position on the list ASAP (I think a few months after starting) and continued on with their new program through the first year
2. work through the first year, but transfer into an unfilled position on the list to continue there in their second year
3. re-entered the match and started a new residency from the beginning (usually picking from MPII list - reapplying is a "strike" against you)

If I were in your position: I'd go with option two as it seemed to be the easiest option. Stick with your residency, and if your residency sucks then start looking into transferring. Don't switch if you absolutely don't have to though - depending on your program director this may be tough. Unless you're actively being a danger to patients, why would they want to give up their free labor?

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again - name and shame these shady residencies. The people need to know

 

[Adam Smasher]

I've known one resident who had an opportunity to take a spot in a city where he could be with his girlfriend, so he asked the director of the program he matched into to release him, and they agreed. But that was the 2010s when every spot filled.

You could ask your director to release you also. They might not mind, but some directors will be annoyed having unfilled slots, since it reflects poorly on the program plus it's one less sack of meat to scut around. As I understand things, by participating in CASPR, you're contractually obligated to go where you match. I dunno what happens if you renege, no one realistically would sue a podiatry student for breach of contract, but we can be a petty profession.

 

[itiswhatitis99]

Nowadays there’s good slots in the mp2. You guys shouldn’t be ranking programs you wouldn’t be happy going to. I’m always amazed how many people don’t understand how the match works before they go in it.

It says the match is supposed to favor the students/applicants, but I’ve now heard of multiple people not ending up at their first choice, programs perplexed that they didn’t get the student and the student ending up at their 4th or 5th choice.
one of my top programs still has an open position. I reached out to their chief and he stated that they ranked me very high and were shocked when I didn’t match with them, so no one really knows how the match really goes.

I have learnt my lesson tho, don’t have backups, only have places you really wanna go. While the program I matched into is supposed to be good, the idea of living very far away from my sick dad and my partner is one I still haven’t come to terms with.

 

[Weirdy]

Warning for future students- Rank places you would actually go to.
Whether its your 1st or 6th choice.

You need to be OK with going to ANY place on your rank list.

 

[itiswhatitis99]

Warning for future students- Rank places you would actually go to.
Whether its your 1st or 6th choice.

You need to be OK with going to ANY place on your rank list.

While I agree, the problem is there’s a notion that programs that end up in the scramble are normally not good, (I don’t agree with that now bc one of my top programs that’s also a very well ran program in my opinion with knowledgeable residents, great caseloads and case diversity etc.. still have a vacant position) and students don’t wanna scramble into those positions, so rather go to a program you know than a program you don’t know. Idk, it’s just a weird process and there’s more luck to it than we like to admit.

I know I’ll get good training if I do end up going where I matched, I just would hate being far away from family esp my dad and my partner, but scrambling into a program you don’t know and it ending up not being a good fit for you would be a terrible place to be, so I think that’s why backups exist, it just kinda sucks to end up at your very last back up option.

 

[Weirdy]

it just kinda sucks to end up at your very last back up option.

For sure man.
And again a lot of residencies play games. They may not tell you, they may be polite, but some DO play games when they tell you XYZ and actually do something else.

If you switch out just make sure you do it in the most professional, nicest way possible.

Its a small field and even if you both leave on good terms, the program needs a body to fill in for the extra workload- and you are the reason for it.

 

[itiswhatitis99]

For sure man.
And again a lot of residencies play games. They may not tell you, they may be polite, but some DO play games when they tell you XYZ and actually do something else.

If you switch out just make sure you do it in the most professional, nicest way possible.

Its a small field and even if you both leave on good terms, the program needs a body to fill in for the extra workload- and you are the reason for it.

Yea I hear that, that’s why I’m second guessing it, not trying to burn bridges, part of me leaning into just sticking it out, in the grand scheme of things, it is only 3yrs and it’ll fly by bc of how busy I’ll be. I reached out to one of my trusted professors to pick his brain on the situation, he’s younger (I think less than 7yrs post residency), so he’s advice will be very pivotal to what I choose to do.

I do know programs play games, they lie and stuff, I was fed bs at interviews and when I talked to other peers that interviewed there, they fed them same lines, almost like it was rehearsed, so I feel you for sure.

Def a bitter sweet place to be, I should be happy school is over and onto the next step, but here I am second guessing everything lol such is life I guess 😂

 

[deleted1235332]

It wouldn’t be surprising to me if the match is messed up for podiatry. Like the algorithm misfires and screws people.

 

[heybrother]

Podiatry uses National Matching Services for their matching services. This is essentially the same service that everyone else in medicine who runs a match uses.

If someone is still claiming they ranked you after the match (they didn't) then ask them to output their match preference list. They won't.

The Match, Part 3: On Proposals and The Fight for A Student Optimal Match

In Part 2, we began our review of Match algorithms. We covered the original match algorithm; how it encouraged students to submit dishonest rank lists; and the student revolt that led to a better m…

thesheriffofsodium.com

On a more fascinating note - apparently the MDs were using a hospital favored match forever. A hospital "proposing" match is still stable. Students are just less likely to get their first choice.

 

[itiswhatitis99]

Podiatry uses National Matching Services for their matching services. This is essentially the same service that everyone else in medicine who runs a match uses.

If someone is still claiming they ranked you after the match (they didn't) then ask them to output their match preference list. They won't.

The Match, Part 3: On Proposals and The Fight for A Student Optimal Match

In Part 2, we began our review of Match algorithms. We covered the original match algorithm; how it encouraged students to submit dishonest rank lists; and the student revolt that led to a better m…

thesheriffofsodium.com

On a more fascinating note - apparently the MDs were using a hospital favored match forever. A hospital "proposing" match is still stable. Students are just less likely to get their first choice.

Yea I know programs lie and fill students with bs, but I guess seeing a program you had a good interview with, invited to dinner, then a phone call after go unfilled despite ranking them high stings a bit, but yea it is what it is, we move on

 

[Adam Smasher]

Since plural number of students are wondering why good programs scramble:

Sometimes they do it on purpose, sometimes they don't like the way a lot of interviews go so they only rank a small number of candidates and figure they'll take their chances in the scramble. I remember it happened a fair bit back in the 2010s but programs could be a lot more choosey then. I have no idea if this is a good strategy in the current climate.

Also note, according to PM News, that 2 graduates of class of 2026 are not placed while 50 slots are going unfilled. RIP to those 2.

 

[itiswhatitis99]

Since plural number of students are wondering why good programs scramble:

Sometimes they do it on purpose, sometimes they don't like the way a lot of interviews go so they only rank a small number of candidates and figure they'll take their chances in the scramble. I remember it happened a fair bit back in the 2010s but programs could be a lot more choosey then. I have no idea if this is a good strategy in the current climate.

Also note, according to PM News, that 2 graduates of class of 2026 are not placed while 50 slots are going unfilled. RIP to those 2.

Yea I hear that, and I feel same way, maybe they didn’t rank me, but we move on.

And yea not having a spot after the whole process while there are unfilled spots is absolutely brutal and I hope they have their heads up, that’s a hard place to be

 

[heybrother]

Yea I know programs lie and fill students with bs, but I guess seeing a program you had a good interview with, invited to dinner, then a phone call after go unfilled despite ranking them high stings a bit, but yea it is what it is, we move on

Yes. It sucks. But its way healthier for you to accept that its terrible, acknowledge the reality of what happened and move on, and then don't move on and then plan your long term revenge.

The problem for this thread is that we're heading into conspiratorial thinking. Everyone knows someone who knows someone who claims a program said this. It is unfortunate and awful, but in every single case it is someone lying.

We're moving in a direction where no one trusts any component of our professional organizations. The schools, CPME, APMA, ABFAS, ABPM - no one trusts them and probably rightly so. And then what happens - no one wants to go to a conference or let a student shadow.

I think though that we still have to trust the match. Its literally a computer program that exposes painful truths. The match assigns you to a residency based on student preference first. That's it.

It doesn't let in people with a 2.2 GPA and a 1-percentile MCAT. It doesn't change the rules after the fact so that Samuel Merrit can stay accredited. It doesn't let NY have a terrible 4 year graduation rate. It doesn't prevent ACGME from having a meeting to discuss residency accreditation. It doesn't let programs with no surgery survive. It doesn't engage in entirely subjective evaluations or write BS CBPS cases or gatekeep people.

Anyone who believes otherwise needs to present an unmatched program and a student and residency match preference list proving its broken.

Trust the match. Do not trust programs. They are run by podiatrists after all.

 

[Dean’s Chat]

You should never rank a program you don’t want to go to.

I’m sure your Dean, Associate Deans, and everybody else affiliated with your College told you the same thing.

“Trust the Match” - fact.

 

[itiswhatitis99]

Yes. It sucks. But its way healthier for you to accept that its terrible, acknowledge the reality of what happened and move on, and then don't move on and then plan your long term revenge.

The problem for this thread is that we're heading into conspiratorial thinking. Everyone knows someone who knows someone who claims a program said this. It is unfortunate and awful, but in every single case it is someone lying.

We're moving in a direction where no one trusts any component of our professional organizations. The schools, CPME, APMA, ABFAS, ABPM - no one trusts them and probably rightly so. And then what happens - no one wants to go to a conference or let a student shadow.

I think though that we still have to trust the match. Its literally a computer program that exposes painful truths. The match assigns you to a residency based on student preference first. That's it.

It doesn't let in people with a 2.2 GPA and a 1-percentile MCAT. It doesn't change the rules after the fact so that Samuel Merrit can stay accredited. It doesn't let NY have a terrible 4 year graduation rate. It doesn't prevent ACGME from having a meeting to discuss residency accreditation. It doesn't let programs with no surgery survive. It doesn't engage in entirely subjective evaluations or write BS CBPS cases or gatekeep people.

Anyone who believes otherwise needs to present an unmatched program and a student and residency match preference list proving its broken.

Trust the match. Do not trust programs. They are run by podiatrists after all.

Fair point. I guess I’m accepting reality, it is what it is

 

[itiswhatitis99]

You should never rank a program you don’t want to go to.

I’m sure your Dean, Associate Deans, and everybody else affiliated with your College told you the same thing.

“Trust the Match” - fact.

Personally, good training is the most important factor, and all the programs I ranked are places that I know I’ll get good training at.

The second factor is family. I wanted to be close home.

So I ranked all good programs for me, but the rankings were based on how fond I am with the area or how close it is to home.

I’m not mad with how things played out, would’ve just liked it to play out differently, but I’m sure I’ll adapt.

But I largely do agree with you

 

[Bored Snorlax]

At the end of the day, this is about training, morale, and patient care. If a resident is already mentally halfway out the door, they are unlikely to do their best. And if a program knows a resident clearly wishes they were somewhere else, that's not really a win for the program either. That's not preserving the spirit of the match.

I know some ppl will say, “Just transfer later.” Sure, that is one option. But by then the resident has already made major life plans, and both programs have to deal with the disruption of onboarding, training, and reworking schedules after July 1. It makes more sense to fix an obvious mismatch before July 1 than to untangle it after everyone has already settled in.

That is why I think there should be a limited Post-Match Transfer Window.

I’m not saying everyone who regrets their rank list should get a second shot. I’m talking about narrow cases where the fit is clearly off and both sides know it.

The basic idea is simple: no applicant loses their current spot unless the new spot is fully confirmed, and no program loses a resident unless it is protected first.

Only programs with verified openings and applicants who are officially eligible would participate, through an official pool rather than backchannel deals.

Here is how it would work:

1. The applicant asks to switch, but keeps their original match for the time being.
2. A new program can say, “We will take you,” but that offer is only conditional until everything is approved.
3. The original program gets a short priority window to fill that opening from an official pool of eligible candidates in the transfer window, or it can voluntarily agree to the release.
4. If both sides are protected, the transfer is approved. The applicant gets the new program, and the original program gets a replacement.
5. If the original program cannot replace the resident and does not agree to release them, the switch does not happen. The applicant simply stays where they originally matched.

So the rule is simple: no student loses their spot unless they already have a new one, and no program loses a resident unless it is protected first or voluntarily agrees to the release.

To me, that is a fair middle ground. It respects the match, avoids chaos, and still gives people a narrow, reasonable way to fix a real mismatch before July 1.

PS: Surprised this thread hasn’t somehow erupted into ABPM vs ABFAS... yet

 

[Adam Smasher]

We like to think of ourselves as surgeons. And many of us our deluding ourselves. But an important part of surgery is accepting accountability for your actions, even snap judgements. There is no rewind button in life.

 

[deleted1235332]

bored snorlax lay off the chat gpt bro

 

[Bored Snorlax]

bored snorlax lay off the chat gpt bro

I thought my proposal was pretty fair. That said I can’t really disagree with Adam on this one. Tough situation to be in. Hope it works out for the OP

 

[Weirdy]

bored snorlax lay off the chat gpt bro

He's a matched 4th year.
Let the boy dream while he still can.

Edit: That said your idea would be utter chaos bro.
I need you to imagine all of the crazy people in your class.

Now imagine them realizing they have a chance to game the system and get a "2nd chance" at match.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

He's a matched 4th year.
Let the boy dream while he still can.

Edit: That said your idea would be utter chaos bro.
I need you to imagine all of the crazy people in your class.

Now imagine them realizing they have a chance to game the system and get a "2nd chance" at match.

Fair pushback. I'm not proposing a free for all, just rare exception cases or real hardship. Otherwise you're basically asking both sides to start PGY1 knowing the fit is off and hoping it fixes itself over time.

 

[heybrother]

Fair pushback. I'm not proposing a free for all, just rare exception cases or real hardship. Otherwise you're basically asking both sides to start PGY1 knowing the fit is off and hoping it fixes itself over time.

I hope in a few years you'll understand why this should never be.

The people who designed the original match algorithm literally won a Nobel prize in economics.
This unyielding, stubborn profession literally changed and bent itself enough to allow a second match phase - a gift from god to the unmatched.

And now we are to have MP3 for people who literally can't understand that you just rank programs that you actually want to attend.

Do you know the term that people who write about algorithms use to describe how students and programs are matched. "Propose". You "propose" to a program. I think that's a hilarious. Stop proposing to programs you don't want.

People who don't want their program will find a way to leave and will find somewhere else to go. The residency system has already done them a kindness by providing a list of open programs. That's enough. This isn't about fair. Its about what is necessary.

The final most hilarious thing about all this is that its all facilitated by the drop in podiatry applicants. The schools would all gladly return to a world of 1:1 student to residency spots so that there seats can be filled again and you can take what you get in the match.

 

[itiswhatitis99]

We like to think of ourselves as surgeons. And many of us our deluding ourselves. But an important part of surgery is accepting accountability for your actions, even snap judgements. There is no rewind button in life.

What’s podiatry without a little self depreciation huh… you do surgery, that makes you a surgery tech?

I’m in a similar spot as OP, but I’ve accepted that it’s happened. People have backups and mine was a good program with ****ty location, but I’ll live with it, it’s only 3yrs anyways. It’s not like we’re not taking accountability, it’s that it didn’t work out in our favor. Bottom line is no one wants to scramble into a bad program. I rather have the problem that I have right now. I needed a few days to embrace it, and I think I’ve gotten there, it’s not that deep.

 

[NeisseriaGon]

For anyone who cares, I ended up just accepting this is where I’ll be training and now I’m excited. Everything happens for a reason so I’m just gonna roll with it.

My pot-match day feels/shock got the best of me lol

 

[heybrother]

For anyone who cares, I ended up just accepting this is where I’ll be training and now I’m excited. Everything happens for a reason so I’m just gonna roll with it.

My pot-match day feels/shock got the best of me lol

You aren't the first to experience this and you won't be the last. Its just 3 years and then you'll face soome new challenge that will likely seem insurmountable at first that you will ultimately manage.

 

[Feli]

For anyone who cares, I ended up just accepting this is where I’ll be training and now I’m excited. Everything happens for a reason so I’m just gonna roll with it.

My pot-match day feels/shock got the best of me lol

Keep your eyes open for potential transfer. Transfer might be impactful.

There are a lot of subpar programs in podiatry, and if that was your feeling when you interviewed or visited or clerked the one you matched, you are probably right. Nothing wrong with giving it a try, but don't feel stuck with what you initially pegged as an [unacceptably] bad match.

Transferring programs is not very hard (especially if in same metro and don't even need to change rental house/apt)... but it can be life changing in terms of skills, passing boards, job options afterwards, all of that. Residency in podiatry is short, but careers are long.