Cheated on attendance

[nwts]

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Im not arguing with you brother, it absolutely was absurd. I think the students that were reported basically had to write an essay on why cheating is bad and were off the hook other than that. Still ridiculous though.

I was definitely not trying to tell you that you were wrong in your post. I hope you didn't think that I was saying that. When I said, "That's completely ridiculous," I meant the professor reporting them, not your post. I'm just lamenting that I feel bad for those students if he reported them after only one day because he actually has no idea if any of those students had cheated. I agree with you that it is absurd.

 

[mehc012]

ownership of learning is primarily on the student not the professor

where it appears that some see those points as meaningless, I see them as easy points = A

I have no problem with owning my learning. A prof making me waste 3hrs/wk on a lecture that PREVENTS me from spending my own time learning the material (the only case where I'd skip) is a different story.

Points are meaningless when they don't reflect your mastery of the material. Getting the grades is important for demonstrating what you've learned, but it's not the actual goal of taking a course. The point is learning the material.

 

[Tommyguns89]

I have no problem with owning my learning. A prof making me waste 3hrs/wk on a lecture that PREVENTS me from spending my own time learning the material (the only case where I'd skip) is a different story.

Points are meaningless when they don't reflect your mastery of the material. Getting the grades is important for demonstrating what you've learned, but it's not the actual goal of taking a course. The point is learning the material.

In an ideal world. I dont believe that to be the case in practice though, at least in pre-professional classes. Often there is a curve that necessitates that a certain percentage of the class receive certain grades regardless of their absolute mastery of the material. This means that a certain % will get an A even if nobody in the class deserves an A based on mastery of the material. Even worse a certain percentage will receive a C- or lower even if nobody deserves a C- or lower based on the same standard. College has largely become a sorting mechanism for jobs/graduate schools.

 

[mehc012]

In an ideal world. I dont believe that to be the case in practice though, at least in pre-professional classes. Often there is a curve that necessitates that a certain percentage of the class receive certain grades regardless of their absolute mastery of the material. This means that a certain % will get an A even if nobody in the class deserves an A based on mastery of the material. Even worse a certain percentage will receive a C- or lower even if nobody deserves a C- or lower based on the same standard. College has largely become a sorting mechanism for jobs/graduate schools.

My classes were never curved, so that helps 😀

Regardless, even if the curve shifts the standard up to a ridiculously high level, you should score better in a class if you master more material more thoroughly. If the points you earn are irrelevant to whether you learned the material, if they don't mean what they ought to (that you learned), then they are meaningless. In my mind, if a class has a bunch of meaningless points, something's not right, but that's up to the professor (and on their shoulders).

 

[Grace184]

Thank you everyone for your help.

To everyone who thinks there's more to the story-- you're right I guess. The policy is set up so that there's a random question you have to answer in order to get points. The prof looked back and my friend and I had similar answers all semester, which is totally normal because he told us at the beginning of the year that collaboration is allowed on clicker questions. He used this as evidence that we had been switching clickers for the entire semester.

I finally posted this because I learned that you have to report IAs on applications. I thought since May (when I got my honor board final statement) that I would just roll with the F and hopefully make up for it in my GPA. Even though this isn't showing up on my transcript, it's still in my judicial record-- which means I have to report it right? My understanding is that the professor "recommended the punishment" and the school "enforced it". If I explain this properly in the section that asks for previous IAs, do I still have a chance at med school?

I didn't bring this up to the dean because I didn't know I could. I appealed to the appeals board for the punishment being too high but they stood by it. The statement said "this is the last avenue for appeals, after this all decisions are final". Should I bring it up to the dean next year? The hearing officer in charge of my case tried convincing the professor and failed. Please help.

So was it an F WITH an IA....very big difference. You need to find this out. @notheory

 

[Moose A Moose]

Better hope telling each adcom that you went to a "top 25 undergrad" balances everything out. Lol.






You will be okay.

 

[Grace184]

Better hope telling each adcom that you went to a "top 25 undergrad" balances everything out. Lol.






You will be okay.

I love when things like that are added in! Especially an Ivy....lol

 

[LizzyM]

Attendance was 2% of the grade. I presume this was for an entire term of 30-45 hours of classroom attendance and not an all or nothing 2% for perfect attendance. Therefore, attendance at one class was worth <0.1% of the grade. What is so sad and so ironic is that handing off a clicker on a single day could be enough to trigger an F for the course, an institutional action and a Game Over in terms of med admissions. To lose so much over so little.

 

[Goro]

As I tell my kids all the time, "actions have consequences".

Attendance was 2% of the grade. I presume this was for an entire term of 30-45 hours of classroom attendance and not an all or nothing 2% for perfect attendance. Therefore, attendance at one class was worth <0.1% of the grade. What is so sad and so ironic is that handing off a clicker on a single day could be enough to trigger an F for the course, an institutional action and a Game Over in terms of med admissions. To lose so much over so little.

 

[GoPens]

This entire thread makes me glad that my college didn't have enough of a budget for clickers...

 

[efle]

This entire thread makes me glad that my college didn't have enough of a budget for clickers...

The classes I had with clickers made us pay for them

 

[Grace184]

The classes I had with clickers made us pay for them

I'm so glad our system connection was so crappy they never worked. Everyone one would sit there clicking and the poll would say 0%