Cheaters??

[Planes2Doc]

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I was thinking about this and realized that when you have to go to extreme lengths to prevent future doctors from cheating.. that's a real problem 😱

It's kind of funny... Everyone is talking about whether some schools are too tight or too loose on their restrictions, but we seem to have lost focus on the most basic concept of all, preventing future doctors from cheating. We shouldn't be cheating in the first place, especially when someone's life will be on the line. It's just very sad thinking about this... 🙁

 

[SpecterGT260]

It's kind of funny... Everyone is talking about whether some schools are too tight or too loose on their restrictions, but we seem to have lost focus on the most basic concept of all, preventing future doctors from cheating. We shouldn't be cheating in the first place, especially when someone's life will be on the line. It's just very sad thinking about this... 🙁

Cheating = bad. For most of us honors doesn't mean much and failing is actually kinda hard to do so I don't see the point.

However... for the love of all that is good and holy please stop equating everything to a patients life or death.

You hung the toilet paper roll with it rotating away from you???? Zomg think of the patients!!! 🙄

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

 

[medsurf83]

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[Planes2Doc]

Cheating = bad. For most of us honors doesn't mean much and failing is actually kinda hard to do so I don't see the point.

However... for the love of all that is good and holy please stop equating everything to a patients life or death.

You hung the toilet paper roll with it rotating away from you???? Zomg think of the patients!!! 🙄

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

Haha crap... Now it sounds like I'm preaching from a high horse. 🙄

 

[Planes2Doc]

what's the story behind this?

I posted a link to the story on page one. There was a student in Canada who was using a tiny hidden camera to deliver video feed to two people watching it from somewhere else. These people were duped into thinking they were interviewing for a prospective MCAT teaching position or something like that, but then became suspicious because of the low quality feed. They called the cops and ******* student was arrested.

 

[peteB]

However... for the love of all that is good and holy please stop equating everything to a patients life or death.

I second this.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Cheating = bad. For most of us honors doesn't mean much and failing is actually kinda hard to do so I don't see the point.

However... for the love of all that is good and holy please stop equating everything to a patients life or death.

You hung the toilet paper roll with it rotating away from you???? Zomg think of the patients!!! 🙄

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

👍👍

Also, to Mass Effect, I think you may have a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome based on whhat your school does for ensuring people don't cheat on practicals. I don't really want to get into a discussion, but just know that is not the norm and IMO, is over the top for medical students. I don't think the way my school does it is the best, but it shows some basic trust in us (that I had no desire to break, especially during anatomy practicals). Did some people cheat on practicals? Probably. Did it make a difference to me? Not really. My class wasn't curved, so however you did on the test was the score you got.

 

[SpecterGT260]

👍👍

Also, to Mass Effect, I think you may have a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome based on whhat your school does for ensuring people don't cheat on practicals. I don't really want to get into a discussion, but just know that is not the norm and IMO, is over the top for medical students. I don't think the way my school does it is the best, but it shows some basic trust in us (that I had no desire to break, especially during anatomy practicals). Did some people cheat on practicals? Probably. Did it make a difference to me? Not really. My class wasn't curved, so however you did on the test was the score you got.

our school has an interesting dichotomy with professionalism and student babysitting..

On one hand they expect us to be professionals. Most of what we do is controlled by the honor code alone. You sign a thing that says you wont do anything stupid, they take you at your word. If you violate it, may they have mercy on your soul
At the same time, they do things at an irritatingly often frequency that makes us feel like we are being babysat.

 

[Mass Effect]

Also, to Mass Effect, I think you may have a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome based on whhat your school does for ensuring people don't cheat on practicals..

You're diagnosing Stockholm Syndrome on an Internet forum? That's even funnier than posters who invoke Burnett's Law. LOL, thanks for the laugh.

 

[SpecterGT260]

You're diagnosing Stockholm Syndrome on an Internet forum? That's even funnier than posters who invoke Burnett's Law. LOL, thanks for the laugh.

I think it was a metaphor. You're going to make a terrible doctor and I feel bad for your patients if you didn't catch that

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[Frazier]

I posted a link to the story on page one. There was a student in Canada who was using a tiny hidden camera to deliver video feed to two people watching it from somewhere else. These people were duped into thinking they were interviewing for a prospective MCAT teaching position or something like that, but then became suspicious because of the low quality feed. They called the cops and ******* student was arrested.

Funny to think about:

"Hello, yes it's an emergency. I have reason to believe someone cheated on the mcat!"

 

[peteB]

The flow of events in your story don't make sense.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/05/31/bc-high-tech-mcat-scam.html

 

[wholeheartedly]

Cheating = bad. For most of us honors doesn't mean much and failing is actually kinda hard to do so I don't see the point.

However... for the love of all that is good and holy please stop equating everything to a patients life or death.

You hung the toilet paper roll with it rotating away from you???? Zomg think of the patients!!! 🙄

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile

Normally I hate the whole "you do x so you're going to be a bad doctor" nonsense that goes on here, but in this instance I agree somewhat.

It points to a concerning pattern of behavior and the risk to the patient isn't just that someone's knowledge base will be lacking.

I spent two years as a patient of a resident at a teaching hospital. Something seemed a bit off, guy was incredibly anxious and insecure despite me being polite, low maint., joking a bit, trying to help him relax, etc since I'm planning on going down this career path also. After he flat out lied to me twice, I decided to switch doctors and got my records. Found out that he was repeatedly documenting exams he didn't do and questions he never asked. He was so anxious that apparently he thought if the attending asked if the resident had asked me a question about something or had done a certain exam, he just pretended that he did and made something up because he was too insecure to say he forgot/didn't think it was important. It created an absolute nightmare for me to deal with.

He was so focussed on convincing people of his knowledge base and performance that he was willing to lie/cheat to be evaluated well. Same as someone who cheats on coursework. I'm willing to bet that someone like him who cheats and takes shortcuts in school is more likely (not always but I'd bet on statistical sig) to "cheat" with patients with things like false documentation, fudging billing records, lying about/covering up errors, etc.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Normally I hate the whole "you do x so you're going to be a bad doctor" nonsense that goes on here, but in this instance I agree somewhat.

It points to a concerning pattern of behavior and the risk to the patient isn't just that someone's knowledge base will be lacking.

I spent two years as a patient of a resident at a teaching hospital. Something seemed a bit off, guy was incredibly anxious and insecure despite me being polite, low maint., joking a bit, trying to help him relax, etc since I'm planning on going down this career path also. After he flat out lied to me twice, I decided to switch doctors and got my records. Found out that he was repeatedly documenting exams he didn't do and questions he never asked. He was so anxious that apparently he thought if the attending asked if the resident had asked me a question about something or had done a certain exam, he just pretended that he did and made something up because he was too insecure to say he forgot/didn't think it was important. It created an absolute nightmare for me to deal with.

He was so focussed on convincing people of his knowledge base and performance that he was willing to lie/cheat to be evaluated well. Same as someone who cheats on coursework. I'm willing to bet that someone like him who cheats and takes shortcuts in school is more likely (not always but I'd bet on statistical sig) to "cheat" with patients with things like false documentation, fudging billing records, lying about/covering up errors, etc.

Yes, exactly. This is exactly what I would be concerned about. This is also why I think medical schools are so harsh in admissions with people who have any type of documentation of academic dishonesty at all.

It doesn't take much of an intellectual leap to jump from cheating on medical school exams to making up an answers to questions you never asked as a resident to straight up falsifying paperwork as an attending. Hey it's just one question right? Oh I forgot to check for edema..well it was probably normal anyway. Eh who cares if the CPT code is one price level higher than what I actually did...Medicare won't find out right?

 

[peteB]

It doesn't take much of an intellectual leap to jump from cheating on medical school exams to making up an answers to questions you never asked as a resident to straight up falsifying paperwork as an attending. Hey it's just one question right? Oh I forgot to check for edema..well it was probably normal anyway. Eh who cares if the CPT code is one price level higher than what I actually did...Medicare won't find out right?

Sounds like the argument for gateway drugs 😀 Not a huge leap from alcohol to cocaine right??

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Sounds like the argument for gateway drugs 😀 Not a huge leap from alcohol to cocaine right??

Apparently.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1746-1561.2012.00712.x/abstract

 

[SpecterGT260]

which is why schools take it seriously. That said, I still think automatically equating it to patient safety is a stretch and an overreaction.

 

[Guillemot]

Cheating happens in medical school. No ****. Why do you think they have electronic finger print scanners for the usmle exams. so mother****ers cant cheat.

 

[SeekerOfTheTree]

Cheating happens in medical school. No ****. Why do you think they have electronic finger print scanners for the usmle exams. so mother****ers cant cheat.

You're lying. You are all liars. We don't cheat. We are too good to cheat. Why would you say this. Next you're going to tell me docs commit fraud and watch pornography.