Cheating Dilemma

[Andrew87]

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I have an ethical dilemma because i am in a very tricky situation. My stats are 3.35sci and 3.5c and before everyone starts bashing me as a cheater, i understand where you are coming from. And after this happen to me i was disgusted every time someone cheated and felt mad about it. Anyway here is my story and if you don't feel lire reading it just skip to the bolded part for my question to you.

I cheated in a science class in my sophomore year on a quiz and i received a failing grade for the class and the professor wrote an incident report to the school which however took no actions at all. No warnings, no prohibitions not even a letter, nothing. After that happen in my senior year my grades improved tremendously over the past semesters, i am talking 3.73 and 3.85 for the two senior semesters and i got all As in my upper level science classes and i retook the failed class and got an A. I started an organization which, one of the purposes was to increase cheating awareness ect.

Anyway i am not looking for forgiveness but now my dilemma is with this question from PharmCas.
Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

I emailed it to the professor that failed me for cheating and asked her if i should answer yes to it. This is her response:

Unless you have been reported for cheating in a second class, that information will remain confidential, and will be destroyed two years after you graduate. You don't need to include it on your application.

As you see she said i don't have to include it in the application however during interview a question may arise of why do i have an F when my next lowest grade is an B-. Than i would have to tell them what happened with that class during the interview and it may come as a bomb. I somehow feel that if i came clean right away with it during the application i dont have to disclose it during the interview which might totally ruin my chances.

Anyone has any suggestions.
Regards,
Andrew87

PS: We always get criticized for the mistakes we made but rarely rewarded for overcoming them.

 

[IrishHammer]

I have an ethical dilemma because i am in a very tricky situation. My stats are 3.35sci and 3.5c and before everyone starts bashing me as a cheater, i understand where you are coming from. And after this happen to me i was disgusted every time someone cheated and felt mad about it. Anyway here is my story and if you don't feel lire reading it just skip to the bolded part for my question to you.

I cheated in a science class in my sophomore year on a quiz and i received a failing grade for the class and the professor wrote an incident report to the school which however took no actions at all. No warnings, no prohibitions not even a letter, nothing. After that happen in my senior year my grades improved tremendously over the past semesters, i am talking 3.73 and 3.85 for the two senior semesters and i got all As in my upper level science classes and i retook the failed class and got an A. I started an organization which, one of the purposes was to increase cheating awareness ect.

Anyway i am not looking for forgiveness but now my dilemma is with this question from PharmCas.
Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

I emailed it to the professor that failed me for cheating and asked her if i should answer yes to it. This is her response:

Unless you have been reported for cheating in a second class, that information will remain confidential, and will be destroyed two years after you graduate. You don't need to include it on your application.

As you see she said i don't have to include it in the application however during interview a question may arise of why do i have an F when my next lowest grade is an B-. Than i would have to tell them what happened with that class during the interview and it may come as a bomb.

Anyone has any suggestions.
Regards,
Andrew87

PS: We always get criticized for the mistakes we made but rarely rewarded for overcoming them.

Yes, I would include it. Cheating is a terrible thing to do (if you're caught), but nobody's perfect. If you made a mistake, realize that what you did was wrong, have paid the price for it, and moved on, that's no reason for your chance at pharmacy school to be thrown out the window.

This is what the personal statement is for. Own up to it and show that you learned from your mistake. Put it right in the personal statement. It takes character to always make good decisions, but learning from poor decisions is what builds that character (you can use that line if you'd like). Trust me, the hypothetical interview situation you brought up will happen, and if that's how the adcom finds out, you're screwed.

 

[Passion4Sci]

The first question that popped into my head is this:

If you got caught once, how many times did you successfully cheat? I.e., maybe you cheated to get those superb grades in your senior year. I am not saying that's what happened, but it's a likely logical conclusion and that's why people are not completely forgiven for overcoming their errors. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

As far as PharmCAS goes, this question came up a couple weeks ago, and I'd advise you to read through that thread. To me, the verbiage, "Were you ever the recipient of action... for any conduct violation..." means you need to report it, if we accept the premise that the "F" grade was an action and cheating was a conduct violation. If I was in your place right now, I'd put it on PharmCAS and remove all doubt from it coming up later and biting you in the ass.

 

[tomk]

you have to make absolutely sure that its not on your record if you aren't going to report it.
and if you are the morally "ethical" person that you claim to be, be prepared to tell the truth on why you got that F if asked, but then again if you were morally ethical person, you wouldn't lie on your app.

if you aren't the ethical person that you now claim to be, you can always lie about why you got the F.

the decision is yours.

ps. you shouldn't get rewarded for overcoming your mistake, its to be expected that you do overcome it. why reward the cheater for not being a cheater anymore; instead reward the guy who never cheated.

I think thats what most pharmacy schools do, unless the guy who cheated did something extraordinary to make up for the fact he cheated.

what you do is a personal choice, if its not documented, you can lie on your app, and lie about why you got the F.

Personally, i say tell the truth, and talk of how you felt and what you did in return (your organization to create cheating awareness) and pray that someone will understand.

 

[drjmariesegars]

I have an ethical dilemma because i am in a very tricky situation. My stats are 3.35sci and 3.5c and before everyone starts bashing me as a cheater, i understand where you are coming from. And after this happen to me i was disgusted every time someone cheated and felt mad about it. Anyway here is my story and if you don't feel lire reading it just skip to the bolded part for my question to you.

I cheated in a science class in my sophomore year on a quiz and i received a failing grade for the class and the professor wrote an incident report to the school which however took no actions at all. No warnings, no prohibitions not even a letter, nothing. After that happen in my senior year my grades improved tremendously over the past semesters, i am talking 3.73 and 3.85 for the two senior semesters and i got all As in my upper level science classes and i retook the failed class and got an A. I started an organization which, one of the purposes was to increase cheating awareness ect.

Anyway i am not looking for forgiveness but now my dilemma is with this question from PharmCas.
Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

I emailed it to the professor that failed me for cheating and asked her if i should answer yes to it. This is her response:

Unless you have been reported for cheating in a second class, that information will remain confidential, and will be destroyed two years after you graduate. You don't need to include it on your application.

As you see she said i don't have to include it in the application however during interview a question may arise of why do i have an F when my next lowest grade is an B-. Than i would have to tell them what happened with that class during the interview and it may come as a bomb. I somehow feel that if i came clean right away with it during the application i dont have to disclose it during the interview which might totally ruin my chances.

Anyone has any suggestions.
Regards,
Andrew87

PS: We always get criticized for the mistakes we made but rarely rewarded for overcoming them.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you need to include it on your application. Yes, as much as it sucks, you have to tell the truth. Honestly you aren't the first person for this to happen to, trust me. But your personal statement and EVERYTHING else better be on point.
I hate to lecture and sound like someone's mother but-just because you did better from then on doesn't mean there still won't be residuals in the future. This might be one of them. If I'm not mistaken, you release your records...they will find out anyway.
I hope that they will overlook it. It sounds like you are trying to make a better effort now. You know that you should include it or else you wouldn't have asked.

 

[tootoo30]

What you need to do is order a copy of your transcript from the school and see if there's any disciplinary comments on there. If not, then you don't have to report anything to PharmCAS. The only information that PharmCAS and pharmacy schools request are your transcripts, so see what they are seeing when they get your transcript before you send it to PharmCAS.

HTH

 

[Sparda29]

Getting caught not reporting that is gonna be trouble.

 

[ffpickle]

"Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?"

Well, were you? The university took no action against you and the professor says the record will be expunged altogether. You did not have to go to University Court. It may not even come up in an interview. The answer to the above question would be "NO." Worst case scenario, you say that you didn't incldue it in your app. because you were instructed not to by the instructor involved.

 

[Passion4Sci]

"Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?"

Well, were you? The university took no action against you and the professor says the record will be expunged altogether. You did not have to go to University Court. It may not even come up in an interview. The answer to the above question would be "NO." Worst case scenario, you say that you didn't incldue it in your app. because you were instructed not to by the instructor involved.

The "action" was the F OP got for cheating (the conduct violation).

 

[jasonbourne]

Order a copy of your official transcript and check to see if this incident was indicated. If it was not indicated, dont report it. I am serious with you, DO NOT REPORT IT. Dont try to be Jesus at your interview by acknowledging it. It is better to make up another excuse. Seriously, dont let anyone know. If i was u, I guarantee u that i will never report it. This incident can block your access to pharm school. Dont give the school opportunities to disqualify you from the applicant pool.

 

[jyw003]

Yes, I would include it. Cheating is a terrible thing to do (if you're caught)

cheating in general is a bad thing to do...."if you're caught" implies you cheat and don't get caught and its a wonderful thing...

i suggest you write about it and explain the reasons why you cheated and what you did to make up for this misconduct~

 

[catchsomezz]

it all depends on whether you interepret getting a F as an action for the conduct violation, by whatever pharmcas defines as an action.

 

[ffpickle]

The "action" was the F OP got for cheating (the conduct violation).

The action was administered by the instructor, not the formal mechanism or body of the school. i.e. the University Senate did not take action against the student. The prof. told him not to include it in the application, in writing. I think he is safe by not including it.

 

[Passion4Sci]

The action was administered by the instructor, not the formal mechanism or body of the school. i.e. the University Senate did not take action against the student. The prof. told him not to include it in the application, in writing. I think he is safe by not including it.

But the professor is no one of consequence, using your own logic (the "F" in the course was not an action because it was not official). Therefore, the professor could say, "Sure, go ahead and leave it out" and if it gets uncovered later, OP will have ZERO recourse.

OP should own up to his mistake. He's obviously grown from it and hell, he could mention the extra-curricular group he started as a result of his behavior.

Furthermore, I see nothing in PharmCAS that states that the action must be done via Academic Senate or anything of that nature. It simply requires "an ACTION", and receiving an F resulting from cheating (As is usually outlined on the syllabus, right?) is most certainly an ACTION.

The professor filed an incident report, which may or may not be accessed by the Pharmacy schools. Professor states that the incident report will be destroyed 2 years post-graduation, however I am not a slouch in math and can say with relative certainty OP will be applying to schools, and probably interviewing with them, before those 2 years expire. And, coming from the military, I can also safely say that a lot of things that SHOULD be destroyed after X amount of time often go undestroyed, and later resurface much to the chagrin of people involved.

Why take ANY of those chances? And let's make a hypothetical interview scenario: Op sits for his interview and the first question of out either of their mouths is: "So OP, you have pretty much straight As, a couple of B+s here and there, how can you explain this one F? Not an entire semester of Fs, just one?"

It's sticky. Plus OP won't be able to mention the anti-cheating organization s/he founded.

All in all, integrity and honesty here is chief.

 

[IrishHammer]

But the professor is no one of consequence, using your own logic (the "F" in the course was not an action because it was not official). Therefore, the professor could say, "Sure, go ahead and leave it out" and if it gets uncovered later, OP will have ZERO recourse.

OP should own up to his mistake. He's obviously grown from it and hell, he could mention the extra-curricular group he started as a result of his behavior.

Furthermore, I see nothing in PharmCAS that states that the action must be done via Academic Senate or anything of that nature. It simply requires "an ACTION", and receiving an F resulting from cheating (As is usually outlined on the syllabus, right?) is most certainly an ACTION.

The professor filed an incident report, which may or may not be accessed by the Pharmacy schools. Professor states that the incident report will be destroyed 2 years post-graduation, however I am not a slouch in math and can say with relative certainty OP will be applying to schools, and probably interviewing with them, before those 2 years expire. And, coming from the military, I can also safely say that a lot of things that SHOULD be destroyed after X amount of time often go undestroyed, and later resurface much to the chagrin of people involved.

Why take ANY of those chances? And let's make a hypothetical interview scenario: Op sits for his interview and the first question of out either of their mouths is: "So OP, you have pretty much straight As, a couple of B+s here and there, how can you explain this one F? Not an entire semester of Fs, just one?"

It's sticky. Plus OP won't be able to mention the anti-cheating organization s/he founded.

All in all, integrity and honesty here is chief.

I agree. Sure, any referrals or things of that sort may get destroyed, but that F on his transcript isn't going to go away. He has to account for it somehow, he might as well be honest and upfront about it.

 

[ffpickle]

But the professor is no one of consequence, using your own logic (the "F" in the course was not an action because it was not official). Therefore, the professor could say, "Sure, go ahead and leave it out" and if it gets uncovered later, OP will have ZERO recourse.

OP should own up to his mistake. He's obviously grown from it and hell, he could mention the extra-curricular group he started as a result of his behavior.

Furthermore, I see nothing in PharmCAS that states that the action must be done via Academic Senate or anything of that nature. It simply requires "an ACTION", and receiving an F resulting from cheating (As is usually outlined on the syllabus, right?) is most certainly an ACTION.

The professor filed an incident report, which may or may not be accessed by the Pharmacy schools. Professor states that the incident report will be destroyed 2 years post-graduation, however I am not a slouch in math and can say with relative certainty OP will be applying to schools, and probably interviewing with them, before those 2 years expire. And, coming from the military, I can also safely say that a lot of things that SHOULD be destroyed after X amount of time often go undestroyed, and later resurface much to the chagrin of people involved.

Why take ANY of those chances? And let's make a hypothetical interview scenario: Op sits for his interview and the first question of out either of their mouths is: "So OP, you have pretty much straight As, a couple of B+s here and there, how can you explain this one F? Not an entire semester of Fs, just one?"

It's sticky. Plus OP won't be able to mention the anti-cheating organization s/he founded.

All in all, integrity and honesty here is chief.

PharmCAS says action by the school......not just "any action," as you imply. It is rather specific. The prof wrote an incident report to the school and they took no action. So the answer to the question, as stated on PharmCAS is "no" IMO. Sure, he cheated....but that is not what is being asked.

 

[Passion4Sci]

PharmCAS says action by the school......not just "any action," as you imply. It is rather specific. The prof wrote an incident report to the school and they took no action. So the answer to the question, as stated on PharmCAS is "no" IMO. Sure, he cheated....but that is not what is being asked.

"by the college or university" - Can't we reasonably assume whatever action a professor takes is acting as an agent of the college or university? After all, the grade is official and the school certifies it as such. Therefore it's a logical conclusion that whatever action the professor performs is on behalf of the school, because if it wasn't, then it'd mean nothing.

Additionally, the incident report the professor filed is an action, and again, as a professor is an agent of the school, it follows that such an action is quite official.

 

[Kirbypuff]

Call PharmCAS and ask if receiving an F for cheating warrants checking Yes to that question. Also ask the schools too.
...of course, though, this issue demands an opinion, like that of ffpickle and passion4sci, which will vary from person to person.

I would get as technical as possible if it would help you avoid disclosing that information on your application.

EDIT: After reading what diastole said, I think you should definitely not disclose it. ffpickle makes a good point about the technicality that the school didn't punish you right? And tootoo has a good point too that all the schools are going to see is your official transcript. If they don't ask, don't tell. If they do ask, think of another legit excuse why you failed that class. (i.e. "I didn't study" ---it's still the truth!) I just realized that the last course I took, EVERYONE cheated and the professor did nothing to stop the cheaters because he was interested in getting good reviews from students so that he could attain a permanent teaching position in the school.

 

[diastole]

But the professor is no one of consequence, using your own logic (the "F" in the course was not an action because it was not official). Therefore, the professor could say, "Sure, go ahead and leave it out" and if it gets uncovered later, OP will have ZERO recourse.

OP should own up to his mistake. He's obviously grown from it and hell, he could mention the extra-curricular group he started as a result of his behavior.

Furthermore, I see nothing in PharmCAS that states that the action must be done via Academic Senate or anything of that nature. It simply requires "an ACTION", and receiving an F resulting from cheating (As is usually outlined on the syllabus, right?) is most certainly an ACTION.

The professor filed an incident report, which may or may not be accessed by the Pharmacy schools. Professor states that the incident report will be destroyed 2 years post-graduation, however I am not a slouch in math and can say with relative certainty OP will be applying to schools, and probably interviewing with them, before those 2 years expire. And, coming from the military, I can also safely say that a lot of things that SHOULD be destroyed after X amount of time often go undestroyed, and later resurface much to the chagrin of people involved.

Why take ANY of those chances? And let's make a hypothetical interview scenario: Op sits for his interview and the first question of out either of their mouths is: "So OP, you have pretty much straight As, a couple of B+s here and there, how can you explain this one F? Not an entire semester of Fs, just one?"

It's sticky. Plus OP won't be able to mention the anti-cheating organization s/he founded.

All in all, integrity and honesty here is chief.

I can think of a reason not to take that chance. There is a real chance that the OP may not get into pharmacy school at all if he/she admits to cheating. Schools get many more applicants for each spot and can easily pass over the person who cheated for the one that didn't. We can advise this person to be upfront and honest but what if it means that no school takes them? Being honest would be the right thing to do but the costs could be quite severe. We could at least acknowledge that that is a possibility before we give potentially life altering advice.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I can think of a reason not to take that chance. There is a real chance that the OP may not get into pharmacy school at all if he/she admits to cheating. Schools get many more applicants for each spot and can easily pass over the person who cheated for the one that didn't. We can advise this person to be upfront and honest but what if it means that no school takes them? Being honest would be the right thing to do but the costs could be quite severe. We could at least acknowledge that that is a possibility before we give potentially life altering advice.

There is also a very real chance that the truth will be brought out during the admissions process or later in the student's pharmacy school curriculum. If s/he is found to have falsified information in PharmCAS, do you not think that would be grounds for dismissal?

 

[Albo]

I think the OP needs to decide which option would be better!

Option 1. Come clean on the PharmCas and write about his/her struggle to overcome this and mention your organization as well as other steps you took.
This is a plus because you already told them about this incident and it is much easier to do this in writing than face to face in front of an admission comity. Also you wont waste money and time going to interviews that may stop considering you after you tell them about the incident.

Option 2. Not put it on PharmCas and hope they dont ask you about the F during the interviews.

I think i would rather take option one since every bad thing has a good side and im sure some pharmacy school will look at the good side in this.

 

[diastole]

There is also a very real chance that the truth will be brought out during the admissions process or later in the student's pharmacy school curriculum. If s/he is found to have falsified information in PharmCAS, do you not think that would be grounds for dismissal?

Yes, but the odds of it coming out are probably not that high. I doubt that they are going to ask about that grade in all the interviews so even if it comes up in one or two, the event could go unnoticed at other schools. The OP could increase the chances of it not coming up by applying to schools with closed file interviews. Should he get accepted to a school, the chances of the event coming out get extremely remote unless the OP blabs to people. First off, somebody would have to have a reason to go looking for old reports beyond transcripts. I can't even fathom a reason why someone would do that. Even if they did, this is a confidential file that should be destroyed in two years. This incident is likely to remain buried unless the OP chooses to divulge it.

Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure that he would get dismissed if it came out. I was reading in the pharmacy forums about students caught cheating while in pharmacy school who didn't get kicked out because they hired a lawyer to fight it. I doubt a school would go through the trouble of fighting it out in court over something that happened years ago and didn't occur at their school.

 

[confettiflyer]

I would normally say not to mention it if the incident specifically was not on an official school transcript/record...but in this case, the random "F" can only be explained away by mentioning being implicated in academic dishonesty.

So this is a pretty tough situation, if you omit the incident from PharmCAS you technically aren't lying (since it's not recorded)....BUT if it comes up in interview and you explain it was due to AD, you just essentially admitted to lying on PharmCAS.

I would vote for full disclosure since that F is pretty glaring, but I'd downplay the actual incident--that you were implicated in AD and given an F for the course, but the matter was never pursued formally with the university.

Or you could lie and say the F was due to attendance issues, considering the high stakes admissions process, I wouldn't be surprised if you did. I wouldn't recommend it though.

 

[aboveliquidice]

I don't care who you were / are. If you cheated - you would not be recommended for acceptance.

Character flaws are interesting things. You may have "corrected" the flaw - but I would not be willing to bank your tarnished record against an equally talented (and trust me, most applicants are talented) peer that has not had such a history. You will have to explain your "F" at some point.

What will you say then? Will you lie to cover it up? You can start to see where this goes - one lie begets another... Thus, the character flaw is once again revealed.

If you do not disclose it in your application, but then reveal it in an interview - you have now falsely completed your application. On and on...

I have no recommendations - you could probably lie your way out of the situation - but I wouldn't want you filling my scripts.

 

[WhiteSnows]

I am sorry to hear this man. I find it very difficult in either way for you to say. My best advice is to be sincere if they ask you why. However, do not stress this issue on your personal essay. You can "check the box" . There are always reason why a person cheated. I would explain to them that the need to have a high grade to be competitive have done you a wrong thing. Tell them that you are very regret for done such a thing, and ashamed of yourself. Tell them what do you do to make it up such as volunteering, participate in club, be in dean's list, or something that proves you are a ethical student.

You can also tell them that your school did not take any action. You can ask the school for a proof of such a thing.

One more advice is do not try to excuse yourself for cheaing. In stead, show them you are so regret for doing so. I am sure that as an human being, they know that we make mistake, but that does not prove that person is unethical. Remember, do not excuse, show them your regretful thought, and they will show you how human they are.

 

[diastole]

You will have to explain your "F" at some point.

Is this true? I think I have some kind of record for getting into pharmacy school with the most Fs. On my application, there was an essay question about explaining academic difficulties. I left it blank. In my interview, there were no questions about my past transcripts. I did apply to a school with academic forgiveness and apparently they really meant it. But I seem to recall reading about other people accepted to pharmacy school with Fs and some said it never came up in the interview. I have heard it said that you should address poor grades at some point on your application or the adcoms will fill in the blank but in this case, the reality is the worst case scenario and the adcoms will probably imagine a situation not so dire.

 

[Passion4Sci]

Is this true? I think I have some kind of record for getting into pharmacy school with the most Fs. On my application, there was an essay question about explaining academic difficulties. I left it blank. In my interview, there were no questions about my past transcripts. I did apply to a school with academic forgiveness and apparently they really meant it. But I seem to recall reading about other people accepted to pharmacy school with Fs and some said it never came up in the interview. I have heard it said that you should address poor grades at some point on your application or the adcoms will fill in the blank but in this case, the reality is the worst case scenario and the adcoms will probably imagine a situation not so dire.

Liquid's not talking about people with "Fs". This particular person has a 3.5 cumulative GPA and one F. He re-took the class and got an A...

That is going to stand out. He sits on interview panels, he knows what he's talking about.

 

[catchsomezz]

does anyone know of a situation(s) where a person was accepted to pharmacy school despite being caught cheating? this implies the whole probabtion/university court/etc shindig.

if applying as a "cheater", for the lack of a better word, basically invalidates you as an applicant...OP, you might want to weigh the best/worst case scenarios here.

edit: this is, of course, looking at it from a no morals/ethics restraints point of view
^which i am good at xP

 

[diastole]

Liquid's not talking about people with "Fs". This particular person has a 3.8-3.9 GPA and one F.

That is going to stand out. He sits on interview panels, he knows what he's talking about.

He also said that a person who cheated would not be recommended for acceptance. It doesn't get worse than that.

 

[Passion4Sci]

He also said that a person who cheated would not be recommended for acceptance. It doesn't get worse than that.

Right - Reading between the lines of Ice's post, "you're screwed" seems to show up.

Sometimes the choices we make in life preclude other activities. Sad but true.

 

[charfdorn]

What you should have done was fight it when you got the F. I mean, if the school isn't taking action against you, why did you get an F?

Too late for that now, though. You're a little bit screwed here. Your best shot for getting in is to lie. Double check, though, that nothing shows up on your transcript. As long as there's nothing there, just lie about it. Say you slept in on the day of the final, or say that you had a job that kept you up too late the night before that particular class on a regular basis, and that you made an adjustment in later semesters.

But really, shame on you.

 

[tomk]

OP is in a tough spot.

If he does lie, how does he explain the F that logically makes sense (lie or not).

A 3.5 student with a good track record is not going to have very many C's (maybe 1 or 2) and no D's and F's. This guy has a stellar record (no C's) with only one F, and its in a science class. How do you explain it.

"Ya, even though i got an A in organic 1, i totally forgot everything and got an F in org 2?" Logically doesn't make sense. Can't use stress, family problems etc, due to the fact he probably got A/B in every other class that semester.

now if it was in a humanities type course, he could lie that he dumped the class to focus on a science class and forgot to get his W. However, he got his F (not a logical W) in a science class, probably an important one. I don't think adcoms are stupid, so his situation is going to raise red flags because a 3.5 student doesn't mess up bad enough to get an F, C yes, F no. For this situation it would've been better for him to tank the entire semester, cause then he could come up with a plausible lie.

OP has a choice, lie on app get interview, don't lie and most likely get passed over (too much in talent pool these days).

Profs don't lie, consequences for cheating are grave, and the consequences for cheating on your App could even be worse. Worse case scenario is 3 years in pharm, get found out & kicked out with 150k debt. Chances of that happening however are probably low.

 

[catchsomezz]

"my grandma died", "i overslept the final", "my apartment was on fire"......."my dog ate my final"
i think the excuse is the easy part. deciding whether to lie is the hard part

OP is in a tough spot.

If he does lie, how does he explain the F that logically makes sense (lie or not).

A 3.5 student with a good track record is not going to have very many C's (maybe 1 or 2) and no D's and F's. This guy has a stellar record (no C's) with only one F, and its in a science class. How do you explain it.

"Ya, even though i got an A in organic 1, i totally forgot everything and got an F in org 2?" Logically doesn't make sense. Can't use stress, family problems etc, due to the fact he probably got A/B in every other class that semester.

now if it was in a humanities type course, he could lie that he dumped the class to focus on a science class and forgot to get his W. However, he got his F (not a logical W) in a science class, probably an important one. I don't think adcoms are stupid, so his situation is going to raise red flags because a 3.5 student doesn't mess up bad enough to get an F, C yes, F no. For this situation it would've been better for him to tank the entire semester, cause then he could come up with a plausible lie.

OP has a choice, lie on app get interview, don't lie and most likely get passed over (too much in talent pool these days).

Profs don't lie, consequences for cheating are grave, and the consequences for cheating on your App could even be worse. Worse case scenario is 3 years in pharm, get found out & kicked out with 150k debt. Chances of that happening however are probably low.

 

[charfdorn]

"my grandma died", "i overslept the final", "my apartment was on fire"......."my dog ate my final"
i think the excuse is the easy part. deciding whether to lie is the hard part

My thought is that the OP is screwed if the adcom finds out, whether that's by his own admission or through another means. His best shot is probably lying. I don't think it's the right thing to do, but this person clearly has no qualms about that.

 

[catchsomezz]

totally agree

My thought is that the OP is screwed if the adcom finds out, whether that's by his own admission or through another means. His best shot is probably lying. I don't think it's the right thing to do, but this person clearly has no qualms about that.

 

[diastole]

One time I showed up for my final and it wasn't my final. I got the days mixed up. Luckily for me, it wasn't until the next day but it very easily could have been the day before. I was lucky I didn't get an F in that class just out of sheer idiocy. So things do happen that have nothing to do with how prepared you are for a class.

 

[Jetninjin]

I think we are the wrong people to ask. There are professional admissions consultants who have served on adcoms who can answer these thorny questions much better. I would advise the OP to contact one, cough up the fee, and ask someone who has doubtlessly had first hand experience as an adcom member.

 

[confettiflyer]

I think we are the wrong people to ask. There are professional admissions consultants who have served on adcoms who can answer these thorny questions much better. I would advise the OP to contact one, cough up the fee, and ask someone who has doubtlessly had first hand expeilrience as an adcom member.

Heck no, I love hearing all the ways the OP can circumvent the system

 

[AKN16]

I have an ethical dilemma because i am in a very tricky situation. My stats are 3.35sci and 3.5c and before everyone starts bashing me as a cheater, i understand where you are coming from. And after this happen to me i was disgusted every time someone cheated and felt mad about it. Anyway here is my story and if you don't feel lire reading it just skip to the bolded part for my question to you.

I cheated in a science class in my sophomore year on a quiz and i received a failing grade for the class and the professor wrote an incident report to the school which however took no actions at all. No warnings, no prohibitions not even a letter, nothing. After that happen in my senior year my grades improved tremendously over the past semesters, i am talking 3.73 and 3.85 for the two senior semesters and i got all As in my upper level science classes and i retook the failed class and got an A. I started an organization which, one of the purposes was to increase cheating awareness ect.

Anyway i am not looking for forgiveness but now my dilemma is with this question from PharmCas.
Were you ever the recipient of any action (e.g. dismissal, disqualification, suspension, probation etc.) by any college or university for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violations?

I emailed it to the professor that failed me for cheating and asked her if i should answer yes to it. This is her response:

Unless you have been reported for cheating in a second class, that information will remain confidential, and will be destroyed two years after you graduate. You don't need to include it on your application.

As you see she said i don't have to include it in the application however during interview a question may arise of why do i have an F when my next lowest grade is an B-. Than i would have to tell them what happened with that class during the interview and it may come as a bomb. I somehow feel that if i came clean right away with it during the application i dont have to disclose it during the interview which might totally ruin my chances.

Anyone has any suggestions.
Regards,
Andrew87

PS: We always get criticized for the mistakes we made but rarely rewarded for overcoming them.

def include it, it's better to get things out in the open now, than having it biting you in the ass later...

btw, don't ask that professor that caught you cheating to write you a LOR...

 

[confettiflyer]

Who wants to get a pool going? The OP should omit it from pharmcas, I'd love to bet on:

a) whether the interviewer will bring up the F
b) how the OP explains it
c) whether he gets an acceptance


look, the OP is probably going to omit the fact that he was implicated in academic dishonesty and come up with a cover story for the random F should it come up during the interview.

with that out of the way, the OP should NOT disclose the schools he is applying to or otherwise participate in SDN the way most people do. people have been busted on here before, and simply knowing his interview timeframe, applied schools, and geographic location will be identifying enough.

It's probably too late, his s/n "Andrew87" probably just gave up the fact that he was born in 1987 and just might be named Andrew. His previous posts indicate he's either a non-citizen permanent resident, a son/daughter of immigrants, or possibly even 2nd generation. Also revealed is that he volunteered at a hospital and soup kitchen (generic enough). We have his GPA's as stated above and the fact that he got a glaring F amidst a transcript with the next highest grade of B-.

If you're one of the handful of adcom members that randomly peruse SDN with 1200 applicants, 40% of them male...you figure out how hard/easy it would be to pick out the applicant after reading this.

 

[Passion4Sci]

I agree... Although I (sadly) think we'll never hear from OP again. =[

 

[desmoulins45179]

One time I showed up for my final and it wasn't my final. I got the days mixed up. Luckily for me, it wasn't until the next day but it very easily could have been the day before. I was lucky I didn't get an F in that class just out of sheer idiocy. So things do happen that have nothing to do with how prepared you are for a class.

My friend was in a similar situation - She mixed up the days for her final except the final was the day before (it was really a tuesday instead of a wednesday)

The prof was nice and gave her an Incomplete. The next year (she was a junior when it happened) she signed up for the class and just retook the final.

 

[Passion4Sci]

My friend was in a similar situation - She mixed up the days for her final except the final was the day before (it was really a tuesday instead of a wednesday)

The prof was nice and gave her an Incomplete. The next year (she was a junior when it happened) she signed up for the class and just retook the final.

I was so incredibly anxious about every final I ever took, every day before I went to bed during finals week I drilled the times/locations into my head and had them written just about everywhere.

Not showing up for a final was probably on the top of my list in terms of 'worst nightmare' until I went to Iraq.

 

[rhythmspirit]

So if nothing shows on the transcript, they won't know?

Also, isn't it permanent on your record only if you've been dismissed from the university for cheating (which is usually second or third time)? First time offenders don't get that permanent mark, do they?

 

[iamjohn123]

they probably won't ask you about your grades during the interview. the interview portion is more to see what kind of person you are. the grades certainly get you into the interview portion so after you're granted an interview, they want to know more about you, not your grades. but like everyone is saying, be prepared to answer such a question if they ask you during your interview. they might not ask a direct question like "why did you get that F" but maybe more something along the lines of "if you saw someone cheating, how would you feel and react to it"

 

[Jetninjin]

So if nothing shows on the transcript, they won't know?

Also, isn't it permanent on your record only if you've been dismissed from the university for cheating (which is usually second or third time)? First time offenders don't get that permanent mark, do they?

Depends on the school. My alma mater had a single-sanction policy. Are there really any schools who would tolerate 3-time offender?! That is deplorable if so...

 

[rhythmspirit]

Depends on the school. My alma mater had a single-sanction policy. Are there really any schools who would tolerate 3-time offender?! That is deplorable if so...

yeah my school suspends you 2nd time and then dismiss 3rd time. First time offenders get a sanction that involves online activities and writing a paper. either way, i think it will only stays permanent on your record if you get dismissed, not base on how many times because schools have different policies.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

If the OP decides to lie about why he got that F, he hasn't changed at all in my opinion, which contradicts what he said about overcoming his past. There's one of two things I can think of doing. 1) Get it all out in the open on the PharmCAS and through your personal statement or 2) Don't mention it in your app (based off what was told by the professor), but if someone ask you about your F be prepared to state the reason.

It's good that you overcame your mistake, but like someone else stated it's expected of you to not cheat. You don't get rewarded for that, and be prepared to face your consequences.

 

[charfdorn]

The more I think about it, the more I want to know the specifics. What did you do, and what does the prof think you did? Is this something you could have appealed and chose not to, or was it a decision solely by the prof that the administration chose not to comment on?

 

[Sparda29]

The more I think about it, the more I want to know the specifics. What did you do, and what does the prof think you did? Is this something you could have appealed and chose not to, or was it a decision solely by the prof that the administration chose not to comment on?

Yeah, I mean its one thing like if you got a text message during the exam (still shouldn't be given an F if that text message had nothing to do with the exam), or if your textbook fell out of your bag and somehow opened to the corresponding subject matter of the test, compared to you like being caught actively talking to someone else, or looking at their paper, or like having another paper in your hand.