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Cheating @ Ohio???

Discussion in 'Podiatry Students' started by m326841, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. m326841

    m326841 Banned
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    Did anyone hear anything about the dean going to talk to a class about cheating at the Ohio school? If this is true, I wonder what a dean says to a group of mid 20's adults about doing this type of thing.

    Things like this don't help our reputation as a profession and it's pretty sad to hear about.
     
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  3. Dr_Feelgood

    Dr_Feelgood Guest

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    I'm not sure what the issue is or was but there was a big scandal with the boards a few years back. OCPM students were exonerated with prejudice Barry and NYCPM students were not that lucky.
     
  4. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    I haven't heard anything of the sort.
     
  5. Podman

    Podman Senior Member

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    Yeah, I haven't heard about that either - I've been on academic counsel and work closely with Dr. Heathrington on his research.
     
  6. Podman

    Podman Senior Member

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    yeah that was pertaining to the current 4th years. I can't remember the full details of the case but they ended up suing the NBPME and won.
     
  7. Feli

    Feli ACFAS Member

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    No, it was pertaining to the class of 2004 as far as I know...
    http://www.psych.umn.edu/psylabs/catcentral/pdf%20files/ci04-01.pdf
    To my knowledge, the board exam has always started instantaneously across the nation since then to avoid problems. I'm not aware of any problems since 2002?
    ____________

    As for the topic in general, cheating always is lame at any level. It sounds like it happens a lot more than one might think, though:
    http://biz.yahoo.com/weekend/mbacheat_1.html

    I see no problem with reviewing old exams which professors freely pass back or put on library reserve... you'd be stupid not to use any advantage that your classmates use (especially in classes where you are curved against them). However, when it comes to actually copying someone else's answers, using cheat sheets, or plagiarizing, those are reasons for getting kicked out of graduate school (forever) if you ask me.

    In the end, I think the old saying that "you're only cheating yourself" is actually true, though. Nobody is going to text message you the answers to the NBPME. There's nobody in front of you to copy off in order to solve an oral case workup during a residency interview or ACFAS surgical certification. There are no cheat sheets for anatomy while you're scrubbed and standing in the OR. Building bad habits might get someone slightly better grades, but they have to live with that and their overall knowledge base suffers in the long run.
     
  8. krabmas

    krabmas Senior Member
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    This definitely did not happen to my class.

    It happened to the 2nd years the year before I started, so the 3rd years when I was a 1st year. I started in 2003 so the scandel happened in 2003 (summer) to the class of 2004.

    There was a lawsuit brought against the NBPME which is part of the reason that we now pay $900 to take each set of boards.
     
  9. Podman

    Podman Senior Member

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    you are right. I mixed up the dates and events, my appologies.
     
  10. OCPM2009

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    This is what happens at OCPM. The "religious sect" at OCPM, which is a common religious group at most schools (if you know what I mean) will come out of exams and write the test questions down. They will then pass these questions on to other younger members of their church. These other younger church members will then pass these questions around to their classmates. Is it not moral? Yes. Is it wrong? Totally. But if somebody comes to you with old test question, do you use them? OF COURSE! And if you are so sweet and think that you would not use them then you are lying. People at OCPM tend to be pretty self serving in general. Don't get me wrong, there are some great people in each class. People that will go out of their way to help anybody, but there are also some total poop's that will do anything to get an edge. It is funny, but it seems like these people are the ones that get what comes to them if you know what I mean.
     
  11. Feli

    Feli ACFAS Member

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    This is a touchy subject, but it happens nearly everywhere to varying degrees: pod schools, MD, DO, dental, etc across the nation and probably internationally also.

    I'm not gonna state my opinion of the issue to any great extent in a public forum for obvious reasons of student politics and "big brother." However, I am glad that Barry's old tests are highly centralized and everyone has access to the same ones. Some people get extra advantages from time to time I'm sure, but for the most part, the playing field seems to be pretty level. I can imagine that it's quite different at other schools and certain students do have a sizable "advantage" (which, as you implied, may not actually help their overall knowledge much in the end).

    This link is an old thread but a very interesting read. You'll see that what you're frustrated about is nothing new:
    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=3126723#post3126723
    (FWIW, whiskers is basically correct in my opinion, but he sure could stand to sugar-coat some things a bit more)
     
  12. OCPM2009

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    I also agree with you that certain people do gain somewhat of an extra advantage. However, what it all boils down to is that at the start of each semester we are all given the same "brick" of notes that the professors will lecture from. They also tell us in class that anything that they say in class is fair game for exams. So the losers that do not want to wake up for the 8 am classes tend to miss that information. And on a 60 question exam, that may be 4 or 5 questions. So that automatically puts them almost at a "B" for the test. Then these people are the same ones that are crying racism. They have no time to study for the tests because they have been doing things that they should not have been doing. (sleeping, working, going out, shopping, the list goes on and on). And guess what, it is my or your fault that they cannot pass the exams. Meanwhile, we are studying and busting our butts, while they are out partying and being stupid and its my fault. HA, LAUGHABLE! The bottom line is this, we are all given the same notes, we are all supposed to be in class to hear the lectures. When people take the easy way out, and only look at old exams they tend to barely pass or not pass at all. It is only their fault, not mine, or yours. If you want to supplement old tests to gauge where you are weak at while you are studying great, but to solely rely on those is crazy! READ THE NOTES! Stop crying racism when you fail, because you have not been studying while everyone else who passed has. GROW UP!
     
  13. pRHOfessional7

    pRHOfessional7 SCPM 2011

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    Can you explain to me the relationship between racism and the topic at hand? Maybe it is because I do not attend your school that I do not understand your reference.
     
  14. m326841

    m326841 Banned
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    I heard that the dean talked to the 2009 class about cheating. Some of the folks had at their disposal stolen exam questions for a test and one of the honest students went and complained.

    Most of us are busting our rears trying to learn as much as we can and it doesn't help having cheaters looking for short cuts undermining our profession's hard-earned advancement.

    It's really sad to hear these things from one of our schools.

    As an aside note, I'm getting the impression that there is an underlying issue with the concept of teamwork at OCPM and do they have race relation issues?
     
  15. mildoc2016

    mildoc2016 resident

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    i havent noticed any race relations problems at ocpm so far, but maybe im to busy studying to notice anything like that . . .

    also most of my classmate help each other out .. ...
     
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  17. Dr_Feelgood

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    I hope that any of the students that are involved are expelled. With one cheating scandal in the history of OCPM, they should be very watchful. If they do not handle this firmly and correctly, I will lose all respect for the leaders of the institution. I hope that any interested pre-pod students see this and call the OCPM leaders out.
     
  18. Podman

    Podman Senior Member

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    Hey there, I appologize for the delayed response but I feel that I should shed some light on this topic since there seems to be some bitterness and blatant misconceptions that need to be clarified.

    I serve on the academic committee and I can tell you that the school handles those sort of matters with extreme and serious consideration. We have a solid reputation amongst the medical community and our image is important to upkeep, believe me. I also inquired about the issue mentioned with the class of 2009, and from my understanding, this wasn't a case of 1 or 2 students having a copy of old questions. This was a list a compiled list of old questions from previous years (not just last year) that was made and passed on to the students with the intention to serve as a 'study guide'. My friends in that class told me that people were aware of that list, and that they were accessible. Those who didn't have that list, still managed to do extremely well on that exam as it only covered the material pertaining to the lectures (no imaginary or random questions). I do fault the institution for not taking a proactive role, and have those old exams available to the students in the libarary as they usually do with the other classes. I voiced that opinion in our last meeting. In addition, I also fault the professors for not taking a more active role in writing new questions. This sort of situation happens in other institutions, as I've inquired about this with my friends in the dental and medical schools.

    As for the issue of 'race relations', I don't know where that came from because in my 3 years at that institution, I have yet to experience any problems in that regard. I served on the OPMSA (Ohio Podiatric Medical Students Association) and we deal with the students directly so I would know if there was a major race issue or tension. I'm not saying that everyone is best friends but I am saying that there is at least a level of professionalism and tolerance amongst the students (of different races).

    As for students being "selfish", I really can't speak for individuals because some people are great while others are not. However, as an institution, I have to admit that there is an active effort to help all the students to succeed through tutoring services. If students feel that they are struggling, the professors emphasize to see them during their office hours, and the academic committee offers excellent tutoring services by their peers and upperclassmen. I don't think this is a bad deal. If a student feels that they are struggling, it is ultimately his or her responsibility to seek the help services available.

    Bottom line, as an institution there are faults but there are also many pros. We've graduated many great docs (and not so great ones), and earned a respectful place amongst our medical community. So we're definitely not simpletons by any means.
     
  19. m326841

    m326841 Banned
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    Stealing actual questions from an exam sounds like the best way to get a one heck of a study guide!!!! I can only assume these types of study guides are available for other classes too. Why don't I believe that these type of guides are readily available to all the students (doesn't pass the sniff test).

    Usually things like this, at this academic level, make the local news (at least) to be honest and can damage any institutions reputation and probably could even give a few dents to the rest of the profession, and what does the APMA and the accrediting agencies think of this (if they even know or care) so soon after the last incident concerning the national boards?

    One final item, getting back to the initial post, what DID the administration do to address this seemingly serious matter?

    The race thing was directed at the post by OCPM2009's posts.
     
  20. Podman

    Podman Senior Member

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    I would know the difference between stealing questions and study guides, but thank you for the clarification. Questions used as study guides, are written by upperclassmen in some cases - as reference...not actual exam questions. In addition, old exams are available in the library for reference. So I really don't see the problem with that? You don't go to this school, so please don't pass down your posts with seeming "authority" before checking with your sources first. OCPM has enjoyed a great reputation amongst residency directors, programs, and the medical community for years. While I may disagree with many of the policies there - but it is still a respectable institution.

    As for the situation with this particular incident, like I said earlier - this test was composed of questions by upperclassmen - and usually these things are available in the library - but for this particular course - the instructors chose to not use any new questions, which resulted in this fiasco. Nothing was 'stolen' so no penalties were imposed, but there will be an implemented policy on instructors to use new questions. This was a problem with Case western reserve university as the microbiology professor for OCPM and their dental school is notorious for re-using his old exam question - the result, he was forced by Case (and now OCPM) to use new ones.

    As for the "board incident"...again, last time i checked this matter was taken up in the coarts and the students won the case. So this is no longer an issue as far the CPME accredation are concerned. In my 3 years there, i've yet to see them have problems with their accredation - so surely they must be doing something right.

    At any rate, hope this answers your inquiry. If you want further answers, I recommend you to do your research and ask around and obtain facts, but put more thought in what you post before making unsupported allegations.

    Thank you.
     
  21. m326841

    m326841 Banned
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    Podman, as far as my posts, I am just quoting OCPM2009 who has a somewhat different opinion which seems to jive with the event in question.

    I think, telling lies, cheating and stealing are life long habits that don't go away on their own.

    "This is what happens at OCPM. The "religious sect" at OCPM, which is a common religious group at most schools (if you know what I mean) will come out of exams and write the test questions down. They will then pass these questions on to other younger members of their church."

    In my opinion, it's a disturbing event and it is somewhat disappointing to learn that the administration didn't do more.

    You're right, I do not go to your school...and frankly, I'm glad. No offense, but it just doesn't sound like my kind of environment.

    Thanks for the insight though.
     
  22. PodWif

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  23. OCPM2009

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    What does this mean, the "religious sect"?[/quote]

    The religious sect at OCPM is a group of people that get married when they are between the ages of 18 and 20. Have 5 kids by the age of 25, are most spitefull when others do better than themselves. But you know what? It feels so good when you destroy them on an exam!
     
  24. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    I still have no idea what you are talking about. However, I will warn you that generalizing any group of people is usually dangerous and inaccurate. Besides, anybody that is truly religious probably doesn't believe in cheating!

    I'll also point out the obvious fact that just because a person from any race, creed, color, or religion acts in a poor manor, it doesn't make the entire group guilty.
     
  25. Dr_Feelgood

    Dr_Feelgood Guest

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    Maybe he is talking about that cannibal Christian cult that has been in the news lately, and maybe the cheating is they are cheating on their diet and supplementing their people with other forms of meat such as rhino?
     
  26. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    mmm, rhino.

    If an OCPM student meats a crazed lunatic named Dr. Feelgood on rotations, does that mean that all students from DMU are crazed lunatics??? :laugh:
     
  27. Dr_Feelgood

    Dr_Feelgood Guest

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    Yes.

    Also, was "meat" a Freudian slip referring to the cannibals? Did you mean meet? I did hear that you are a cannibal. That is why you got DMC you ate the competition.
     
  28. krabmas

    krabmas Senior Member
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    The religious sect at OCPM is a group of people that get married when they are between the ages of 18 and 20. Have 5 kids by the age of 25, are most spitefull when others do better than themselves. But you know what? It feels so good when you destroy them on an exam![/QUOTE]

    I did not know there was a group orthodox jews in the OCPM school?:laugh: :confused:
     
  29. IlizaRob

    IlizaRob IlizaRob-erator
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    I know exactly what you are talking about. Although my make-believe evil group are people who wear pants in the winter, shorts in the summer and eat cereal with a spoon in their right hand. But I sure rub it in their face when I do well. I cant stand those losers. :laugh:
     
  30. defboy

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    Look of the definition of sect and what do you find...
    1 a : a dissenting or schismatic religious body; especially : one regarded as extreme or heretical
    b : a religious denomination
    2 archaic
    3 a : a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader

    So do I need to be an extremist or heretical? or is it a member of a religion-of any belief system? or is it a person that adheres to a distinct doctrine or follows the teachings of a leader (Christ for example)? will you clarify for me
    OCPM2009? because from the way you write and generalize this "sect" it may make someone think you are discriminatory-meaning you have acts, practice or instances of discrimination based categorically rather than individually. Where do you stand. To classify an entire religion based on the actions a 1 or for that matter 1000 of a large religion(if we are refering to a world-wide religion) then you may then make the same declaration of medicine for the poor action of some that do not act in accrodance with any medical doctrine-wait a second are doctors a sect? it is a group that adheres to a doctrine, defined as
    a : something that is taught
    b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief
    c : a principle of law established through past decisions
    d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations
    e : a military principle or set of strategies
    to all others sorry for the long post but I really detest descrimination; prejudice is one thing-but the way that classification is occuring in the post here is a totally different object.
    nonetheless my prefered way of rubbing it in is to have my 2 daughters, 1 wife, 3 brothers, 6 sisters, 1 mom and 1 pops call the HOGS! WOOOOOOO-PIG-SOOOOOOIEEEEEEEE! RAZORBACKS.
     
  31. jonwill

    jonwill Podiatrist
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    Don't worry, I'm watching this thread closely.
     

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