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Which ones are good?
chicago programs
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Do a search.
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multiple threads on that topic. look again.
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Heard Advocate Masonic and U Illinois @ Chicago have very happy residents don't remember much from the rest of the posts. Have a friend at Loyola, she likes it. Northwestern is probably good. The rest are in chicago 'nuff said. JK there are some old good posts on the subject, try searching Ventdependent's replies he is always willing to put in good advice about the windy city area.
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Chitown places
U of Chicago = quite a popular one among their own students, and all of them tend to stay rather than go elsewhere except this last year I believe. That says a lot about a program. I just don't get why people don't give it credit as deserved. It's not MGH or JHU, but I also like programs that keep me sane over 3 years and probably can get you a good fellowship.
UIC = popular probably because the hours are very resident friendly. I hear the interview process doesn't really show this off so only the away rotators get the real scoop. However, the OR director can be quite intimidating if you don't get on his good side.
NWMH = hardwork but no one lied about that so I like that. I hate programs who downplay the level of intensity just to attract people to their programs, and then pull a "bait-n-switch." NW is pretty honest.
Rush = I don't know much except a fellow at my institution was from there and hated the residency. That may have changed. Best to PM VentDependent since he is in it.
Loyola = no clue. Not really popular amongst interviewers. Once again, my take on it.
Cook County and Illinois Masonic = FMG or those who switched out desperately looking for another residency.
Overall, NWMH and U of Chicago will probably get you the best chance towards a fellowship. U of Cs chair is the president-elect of ASA so he probably has good connections to get you what you want after CA-3 year. I assume that is important for many out there.
I ENCOURAGE out of towners to apply to Chicago programs since you will be surprised on what they have to offer. Chicago has its appeal especially if you come from a climate that actually has snow. It's not bad at all except like 2 weeks in Feb. And unlike many other big cities in the US, we aren't rude and act like we're the only thing that matters on the planet (NYC...cough, cough).
U of Chicago = quite a popular one among their own students, and all of them tend to stay rather than go elsewhere except this last year I believe. That says a lot about a program. I just don't get why people don't give it credit as deserved. It's not MGH or JHU, but I also like programs that keep me sane over 3 years and probably can get you a good fellowship.
UIC = popular probably because the hours are very resident friendly. I hear the interview process doesn't really show this off so only the away rotators get the real scoop. However, the OR director can be quite intimidating if you don't get on his good side.
NWMH = hardwork but no one lied about that so I like that. I hate programs who downplay the level of intensity just to attract people to their programs, and then pull a "bait-n-switch." NW is pretty honest.
Rush = I don't know much except a fellow at my institution was from there and hated the residency. That may have changed. Best to PM VentDependent since he is in it.
Loyola = no clue. Not really popular amongst interviewers. Once again, my take on it.
Cook County and Illinois Masonic = FMG or those who switched out desperately looking for another residency.
Overall, NWMH and U of Chicago will probably get you the best chance towards a fellowship. U of Cs chair is the president-elect of ASA so he probably has good connections to get you what you want after CA-3 year. I assume that is important for many out there.
I ENCOURAGE out of towners to apply to Chicago programs since you will be surprised on what they have to offer. Chicago has its appeal especially if you come from a climate that actually has snow. It's not bad at all except like 2 weeks in Feb. And unlike many other big cities in the US, we aren't rude and act like we're the only thing that matters on the planet (NYC...cough, cough).
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Good luck with that. He is not that helpful.
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You gotta be friggen kidding me. There are tons of threads on Chicago programs.
Lemme dig up some crap I wrote on my emails and post it on here.
Lemme dig up some crap I wrote on my emails and post it on here.
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I got wayyyyyyy too many messages to dig through all of em.
RUSH
Pluses:
New Program Director: Ken Tuman. Been in the department for a lonnnnnnng time. He's in any cardiac chapter you'll read in the big books. Guy is fantastic. Listens to the residents. Huge advocate for us. Multiple great things have happened since he grabbed the reigns. Was head of the ABA. Top dog in Cardiac Anesthesia. I doubt you'll find anyone who has anything bad to say about the guy.
New machines. We got the drager appolo's. Bently of the anesthesia machines. Every friggen vent setting you can imagine on the damn things. Pieces of art.
Clinical volume: You'll get sick of taking back train wreck ASA 4's. You'll get sick of doing massive bloody liver transplant cases. You'll be an epidural master. Ever knee and hip gets one. New huge thoracic guy. You'll be slappen in gobs of DLT's for wedge, vats, and pneumo's. Those patients are THE SICKEST. You'll get your pheo's, aortic dissections, whipples, IVC slopfests, bowel disasters, plenty of hearts to at least make your numbers (including PEDI hearts, I've done about 7 of em), vasculopaths. I can't imagine too many places doing more large spine cases than we do. You'll do tons of crani's. Even though we aren't a level one trauma center someone is always fallin and crackin their noggin, or bursting a blood vessel in their head, or having a chunk of bowel explode, or a heart with a filling pericardium from the earlier cabg, you get my point.
Autonomy: you show that you give a damn, you got it. You wanna run a precedex drip fine. You wanna run remi for a crani or bronch? fine. Explain it like you care and its a done deal almost all of the time. Tiva fine. Fastrach the patient for the hell of it? OK. Wanna FOI someone for the hell of it? OK. Mac a difficult case with regional cause you dont wanna tube em? OK. Some attendings aren't as open but most are. I doubt that differs from anywhere.
Relationship with outside services: I'm constantly joking it up with every service, save some of the ortho guys, and I enjoy the atmosphere. Chicago people. Down to earth. Some of the Gen Surg people are my good friends. Sure you'll get into it with certain surgeons but YOU wont be the middle man. If you don't get into it with surgeons every once in a while than whats the point? Its good fun I tells ya.
Call: Ca-1. NO CALL for first 3 months. Then ONE CALL per month for the next 6-8 months or so. CA-3's average Q 4 until the CA-1's start eating up some calls. Attendings buy you dinner every night. Calls can run long and hard but its residency. Post Call GONE at 7am.
Regional: You'll do plenty at the surgicenter. Its can get a little weird over there but you'll do about a gazillion ax-blocks, interscalenes, and fem-sci. We have a big resident advocate for regional in the main OR, and we have tons of ortho. Add those together and you'll be poppen in continuous interscalene's like a champ...among other blocks. You will certainly have your basics down: Fem-sci, ax, popliteal, supraclavic, interscalene. What more do ya need?
Rush North Shore: Calls are breezy. You'll do cases on a more outpatient based population. Its private practice. Some of the attendings are truly brilliant. Great guys to work with. Anes techs are the bomb. Hilarious guys. They are big into U/S guided regional techniques. Good times.
Fellow Residents: These are the people that'll get you through your residency. Most of us love going out, cracking jokes, commiserating, and just hanging out during downtime during the day. This is probably the best part of our program. Down to earth people. So I think. For what its worth.
In Room Stock Carts: Circuits, tubing, IV bags and tubing, Epidural kits, Spinal needles, hetastarch, albumin, all located in large carts next to yer drug cart/anes cart. Used to be a problem having residents run to local room to get stuff but thats over now. No more cutting your own suction tubing. =)
MINUS:
Workload. Pushen 60-70 hrs a week. SICU 80. Pain service 40. Average day out around 5. Reading can be a burden if you choose to look at it that way. I haven't had any issues with this and I am FAR from being the brightest bulb in the shop.
Pain pager can be a killer. Pain service can be a killer. We have a monster pain service = lots of patients.
PRECALL: getting out at a decent hour used to be somewhat of a problem. That has been mainly corrected through multiple arenas. PRECALL now your out before or at 2pm...unless you're doing a heart, thoracotomy, crani...etc.
Transplant: you'll be doing livers till ya puke. Plenty of kidney transplants. Some pancreas. Maybe ONE heart a year. No lung or bowel.
Ancillary staff: Anes techs are fantastic. But they only help out for machines and brining big equip like scopes to the room. Sometimes its a pain to trouble shoot monitors, find some equipment like WORKING tripplepumps, etc. We are working on this and Tuman is very serious about rectifying this problem The Hearts and thoracic rooms are now fully stocked all the time with all equipment. Used to be a problem
There ya go man....
100% pass rate last year with boards
No regrets. Residency is residency. Its not the time to "cold chill." I'm sure there are places you can find with lighter work hours. No matter what Anesthesia is NOT surgery or OBGYN or N-SURG. Hours will never be that heavy. If you want to stay in Chicago Rush will get you where you wanna go. No problem.
I didn't spell check this, and...I guess thats it. Plus I burned my mouth on some pizza.
RUSH
Pluses:
New Program Director: Ken Tuman. Been in the department for a lonnnnnnng time. He's in any cardiac chapter you'll read in the big books. Guy is fantastic. Listens to the residents. Huge advocate for us. Multiple great things have happened since he grabbed the reigns. Was head of the ABA. Top dog in Cardiac Anesthesia. I doubt you'll find anyone who has anything bad to say about the guy.
New machines. We got the drager appolo's. Bently of the anesthesia machines. Every friggen vent setting you can imagine on the damn things. Pieces of art.
Clinical volume: You'll get sick of taking back train wreck ASA 4's. You'll get sick of doing massive bloody liver transplant cases. You'll be an epidural master. Ever knee and hip gets one. New huge thoracic guy. You'll be slappen in gobs of DLT's for wedge, vats, and pneumo's. Those patients are THE SICKEST. You'll get your pheo's, aortic dissections, whipples, IVC slopfests, bowel disasters, plenty of hearts to at least make your numbers (including PEDI hearts, I've done about 7 of em), vasculopaths. I can't imagine too many places doing more large spine cases than we do. You'll do tons of crani's. Even though we aren't a level one trauma center someone is always fallin and crackin their noggin, or bursting a blood vessel in their head, or having a chunk of bowel explode, or a heart with a filling pericardium from the earlier cabg, you get my point.
Autonomy: you show that you give a damn, you got it. You wanna run a precedex drip fine. You wanna run remi for a crani or bronch? fine. Explain it like you care and its a done deal almost all of the time. Tiva fine. Fastrach the patient for the hell of it? OK. Wanna FOI someone for the hell of it? OK. Mac a difficult case with regional cause you dont wanna tube em? OK. Some attendings aren't as open but most are. I doubt that differs from anywhere.
Relationship with outside services: I'm constantly joking it up with every service, save some of the ortho guys, and I enjoy the atmosphere. Chicago people. Down to earth. Some of the Gen Surg people are my good friends. Sure you'll get into it with certain surgeons but YOU wont be the middle man. If you don't get into it with surgeons every once in a while than whats the point? Its good fun I tells ya.
Call: Ca-1. NO CALL for first 3 months. Then ONE CALL per month for the next 6-8 months or so. CA-3's average Q 4 until the CA-1's start eating up some calls. Attendings buy you dinner every night. Calls can run long and hard but its residency. Post Call GONE at 7am.
Regional: You'll do plenty at the surgicenter. Its can get a little weird over there but you'll do about a gazillion ax-blocks, interscalenes, and fem-sci. We have a big resident advocate for regional in the main OR, and we have tons of ortho. Add those together and you'll be poppen in continuous interscalene's like a champ...among other blocks. You will certainly have your basics down: Fem-sci, ax, popliteal, supraclavic, interscalene. What more do ya need?
Rush North Shore: Calls are breezy. You'll do cases on a more outpatient based population. Its private practice. Some of the attendings are truly brilliant. Great guys to work with. Anes techs are the bomb. Hilarious guys. They are big into U/S guided regional techniques. Good times.
Fellow Residents: These are the people that'll get you through your residency. Most of us love going out, cracking jokes, commiserating, and just hanging out during downtime during the day. This is probably the best part of our program. Down to earth people. So I think. For what its worth.
In Room Stock Carts: Circuits, tubing, IV bags and tubing, Epidural kits, Spinal needles, hetastarch, albumin, all located in large carts next to yer drug cart/anes cart. Used to be a problem having residents run to local room to get stuff but thats over now. No more cutting your own suction tubing. =)
MINUS:
Workload. Pushen 60-70 hrs a week. SICU 80. Pain service 40. Average day out around 5. Reading can be a burden if you choose to look at it that way. I haven't had any issues with this and I am FAR from being the brightest bulb in the shop.
Pain pager can be a killer. Pain service can be a killer. We have a monster pain service = lots of patients.
PRECALL: getting out at a decent hour used to be somewhat of a problem. That has been mainly corrected through multiple arenas. PRECALL now your out before or at 2pm...unless you're doing a heart, thoracotomy, crani...etc.
Transplant: you'll be doing livers till ya puke. Plenty of kidney transplants. Some pancreas. Maybe ONE heart a year. No lung or bowel.
Ancillary staff: Anes techs are fantastic. But they only help out for machines and brining big equip like scopes to the room. Sometimes its a pain to trouble shoot monitors, find some equipment like WORKING tripplepumps, etc. We are working on this and Tuman is very serious about rectifying this problem The Hearts and thoracic rooms are now fully stocked all the time with all equipment. Used to be a problem
There ya go man....
100% pass rate last year with boards
No regrets. Residency is residency. Its not the time to "cold chill." I'm sure there are places you can find with lighter work hours. No matter what Anesthesia is NOT surgery or OBGYN or N-SURG. Hours will never be that heavy. If you want to stay in Chicago Rush will get you where you wanna go. No problem.
I didn't spell check this, and...I guess thats it. Plus I burned my mouth on some pizza.
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That's pretty funny. I have had EVERY question answered within 48 hours. Try getting that response from a help desk.
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Posted by DCGas
I can tell you about 2 programs I considered:
Rush University: Nice program with friendly residents, a mix of singles and married types, that work very hard. The faculty seemed distant from the residents and the Junior faculty member that interviewed me brought up how hard the residents work here, but that the location and proximity to the city should be an important consideration in my decision, not the work load. The Program Director explained the planned OR expansion to 40 OR's by saying that the hospital realized that they made the most money on surgical patients and hence the drive to expand that service. He also explained that they would be bringing on more top notch surgeons to boost the volume even further in the face of the OR expansion over the next 4 years. He said this will probably require on call residents to do more scheduled night cases so that they can accommodate the anticipated volume. This sounded a lot like what goes on at UCLA, where lots of elective cases get scheduled for early AM hours due to the lack of OR slots. Several residents commented that they liked the program,but that the didn't have the best relations with the administration and I could feel the palpable air of distinction between faculty and residents during my day there. Oh, Rush also gets a lot of Extended Criteria Liver Transplant cases, making those cases even longer and that much more difficult. Rush hasn't filled for at least the last 3 years and I can see why now. Given different leadership and a more in touch faculty, Rush could turn around since they definitely have the clinical component of resident training down.
Loyola Univ: Reputed to be the "hardest working" anesthesia program in Chicago, but I found it to be quite the opposite. Residents did state the have frequently worked past 5, but usually never longer than 7. Interestingly the Chair at Loyola brought up the fact that they were also adding 10 new ORs, but for exactly a different reason than Rush. The Chair said they were looking to expand the number of ORs in order to relieve the load and backlog of cases so that cases finished earlier and thus residents got out earlier as well. I found Loyola to be the most resident resident focused program with some of the friendliest residents. During their reception several approached me before I could even order a drink. There was a higher predominance of married couples, but many of them seemed to be newly married and living in the city and counter commuting. Downtown to Loyola in Maywood is purportedly only 20 minutes door to door in the early AM, but 40 minutes on the way back in the PM. Facilities were newer than Rush and the faculty were considerably more approachable.
Clearly I favored Loyola after my interviews, but I had exactly the opposite thoughts going into it and almost didn't even go for the Loyola interview. I didn't match there, but I would have been very happy there having been a prior resident of the great city of Chicago and finding the residents and faculty to be the friendliest of the programs I interviewed at.
Best of luck and I recommend you make your own assessment of these two programs after interviews. I think NW and UC are also clearly strong, but are far more academic in their approach.
I can tell you about 2 programs I considered:
Rush University: Nice program with friendly residents, a mix of singles and married types, that work very hard. The faculty seemed distant from the residents and the Junior faculty member that interviewed me brought up how hard the residents work here, but that the location and proximity to the city should be an important consideration in my decision, not the work load. The Program Director explained the planned OR expansion to 40 OR's by saying that the hospital realized that they made the most money on surgical patients and hence the drive to expand that service. He also explained that they would be bringing on more top notch surgeons to boost the volume even further in the face of the OR expansion over the next 4 years. He said this will probably require on call residents to do more scheduled night cases so that they can accommodate the anticipated volume. This sounded a lot like what goes on at UCLA, where lots of elective cases get scheduled for early AM hours due to the lack of OR slots. Several residents commented that they liked the program,but that the didn't have the best relations with the administration and I could feel the palpable air of distinction between faculty and residents during my day there. Oh, Rush also gets a lot of Extended Criteria Liver Transplant cases, making those cases even longer and that much more difficult. Rush hasn't filled for at least the last 3 years and I can see why now. Given different leadership and a more in touch faculty, Rush could turn around since they definitely have the clinical component of resident training down.
Loyola Univ: Reputed to be the "hardest working" anesthesia program in Chicago, but I found it to be quite the opposite. Residents did state the have frequently worked past 5, but usually never longer than 7. Interestingly the Chair at Loyola brought up the fact that they were also adding 10 new ORs, but for exactly a different reason than Rush. The Chair said they were looking to expand the number of ORs in order to relieve the load and backlog of cases so that cases finished earlier and thus residents got out earlier as well. I found Loyola to be the most resident resident focused program with some of the friendliest residents. During their reception several approached me before I could even order a drink. There was a higher predominance of married couples, but many of them seemed to be newly married and living in the city and counter commuting. Downtown to Loyola in Maywood is purportedly only 20 minutes door to door in the early AM, but 40 minutes on the way back in the PM. Facilities were newer than Rush and the faculty were considerably more approachable.
Clearly I favored Loyola after my interviews, but I had exactly the opposite thoughts going into it and almost didn't even go for the Loyola interview. I didn't match there, but I would have been very happy there having been a prior resident of the great city of Chicago and finding the residents and faculty to be the friendliest of the programs I interviewed at.
Best of luck and I recommend you make your own assessment of these two programs after interviews. I think NW and UC are also clearly strong, but are far more academic in their approach.
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Old post by bullard
Biases: I'm a PGY-1 at Northwestern.
NWU vs UChicago:
Call schedule: UChicago wins, for the moment. On the other hand, we are expanding our classes at NWU from 18 to 21. There was some unhappiness with the call schedule a few years ago because one class had dropped from 18 to 14 b/c people left for reasons unrelated to the program (mostly family stuff). The classes that are full seem happy with the schedule.
Caseload: NWU wins. 35 ORs downtown, another 16 or so at Children's Memorial, and a bunch more at Evanston. Tons of regional, tons of sick OB, 4 months of dedicated peds months, tons of cardiac (one of our cardiac surgeons did leave recently but 1) he sucked and 2) he will be replaced very soon). Try asking UoC's program director about his caseload. You will not find a more defensive guy on the interview trail.
Patients: I don't know where this "rich healthy patients go to NWU, poor patients who never see a doctor go to uchicago" meme got started, but it is utter bulls h i t. Just came off a month of wards, where everybody was sick as s h i t, and half of my patients were homeless and/or free care. Nobody going to the OR gets away from having an anesthesiology resident on the case (unless it's a chip-shot case, in which case a CRNA might do it). Speaking of which...
Relations with CRNAs: very cordial at U of C, as far as I could tell. At NWU, CRNAs stop work at 3 pm (!) and guess who replaces them...attendings! OK, usually it's residents, but it's not unusual to see a few attendings a day with their own rooms...there's just that much work to go around.
Categorical internship: NWU. NWU's is harder but you're taking care of sicker patients -- U of C's involves a number of relatively cush months at a community hospital. NWU's is also 10 months long -- you start anesthesia in May of your intern year ahead of your counterparts starting in July.
ICU training: I'm calling this a toss-up. U of C anesthesia covers the CVICU and burn ICU. U of C residents were enthused about burn ICU being an easy month more than anything else -- I'm sure CVICU there is tough and a good educational experience. NWU covers the neurosurg ICU and is in the process of taking over the CVICU. Neurosurg ICU is rough. At the moment, PGY1s and PGY4s rotate through the CVICU with an attending but the CT surgeons and their fellows are calling the shots with NPs (!) doing the grunt work -- we're basically there on a consult basis and for lines, tubes, and other associated bitch-work. Next year, we will have more residents there and the PGY4s will start taking overnight call with (or maybe instead of?) the CT surg fellows. Eventually, the CVICU will function just like the NSICU (surgeons admit to the unit, and then we run the show). Growing pains at the moment though.
Moonlighting: UChicago. NWU doesn't have moonlighting at all, and has no plans to change this.
Didactics: probably U of C.
Location, facilities, ancillary staff: NWU.
Job and fellowship opportunities after residency: tossup
Sorry for the long post; hope it helps somebody.
Biases: I'm a PGY-1 at Northwestern.
NWU vs UChicago:
Call schedule: UChicago wins, for the moment. On the other hand, we are expanding our classes at NWU from 18 to 21. There was some unhappiness with the call schedule a few years ago because one class had dropped from 18 to 14 b/c people left for reasons unrelated to the program (mostly family stuff). The classes that are full seem happy with the schedule.
Caseload: NWU wins. 35 ORs downtown, another 16 or so at Children's Memorial, and a bunch more at Evanston. Tons of regional, tons of sick OB, 4 months of dedicated peds months, tons of cardiac (one of our cardiac surgeons did leave recently but 1) he sucked and 2) he will be replaced very soon). Try asking UoC's program director about his caseload. You will not find a more defensive guy on the interview trail.
Patients: I don't know where this "rich healthy patients go to NWU, poor patients who never see a doctor go to uchicago" meme got started, but it is utter bulls h i t. Just came off a month of wards, where everybody was sick as s h i t, and half of my patients were homeless and/or free care. Nobody going to the OR gets away from having an anesthesiology resident on the case (unless it's a chip-shot case, in which case a CRNA might do it). Speaking of which...
Relations with CRNAs: very cordial at U of C, as far as I could tell. At NWU, CRNAs stop work at 3 pm (!) and guess who replaces them...attendings! OK, usually it's residents, but it's not unusual to see a few attendings a day with their own rooms...there's just that much work to go around.
Categorical internship: NWU. NWU's is harder but you're taking care of sicker patients -- U of C's involves a number of relatively cush months at a community hospital. NWU's is also 10 months long -- you start anesthesia in May of your intern year ahead of your counterparts starting in July.
ICU training: I'm calling this a toss-up. U of C anesthesia covers the CVICU and burn ICU. U of C residents were enthused about burn ICU being an easy month more than anything else -- I'm sure CVICU there is tough and a good educational experience. NWU covers the neurosurg ICU and is in the process of taking over the CVICU. Neurosurg ICU is rough. At the moment, PGY1s and PGY4s rotate through the CVICU with an attending but the CT surgeons and their fellows are calling the shots with NPs (!) doing the grunt work -- we're basically there on a consult basis and for lines, tubes, and other associated bitch-work. Next year, we will have more residents there and the PGY4s will start taking overnight call with (or maybe instead of?) the CT surg fellows. Eventually, the CVICU will function just like the NSICU (surgeons admit to the unit, and then we run the show). Growing pains at the moment though.
Moonlighting: UChicago. NWU doesn't have moonlighting at all, and has no plans to change this.
Didactics: probably U of C.
Location, facilities, ancillary staff: NWU.
Job and fellowship opportunities after residency: tossup
Sorry for the long post; hope it helps somebody.
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By DrRobert
My 2 cents...
NW:
- Top 20 program
- One of the best clinical training programs in the country. period.
- The focus is definitely clinical medicine and not academics, although opportunities exist for research.
- You will get worked here.
- Great location, facilities.
- Relationship between residents and faculty is cold.
U of C:
- Top 20 program
- Adequate clinical training but the focus is more on academics.
- Works hours better than NW.
- Location and facilities not on par with NW, yet.
- Relationship between residents and faculty is warm.
Two very different top 20 programs that will both prepare you for a career in academics or private practice. They just offer different means to an end.
My 2 cents...
NW:
- Top 20 program
- One of the best clinical training programs in the country. period.
- The focus is definitely clinical medicine and not academics, although opportunities exist for research.
- You will get worked here.
- Great location, facilities.
- Relationship between residents and faculty is cold.
U of C:
- Top 20 program
- Adequate clinical training but the focus is more on academics.
- Works hours better than NW.
- Location and facilities not on par with NW, yet.
- Relationship between residents and faculty is warm.
Two very different top 20 programs that will both prepare you for a career in academics or private practice. They just offer different means to an end.
