Chief Resident taking a pic of the ROL and sending it to an applicant to prove his/her number 1 spot

[danvasta]

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I know of couple of applicants both from this year and last who had this done to them, both because they showed commitment to the program and because the program liked them (obvi).. They ended up matching at their no.1 spot (this one in particular was their no.2 spot ) but isn't this a total violation of NRMP rules? Do you reckon that the PD knows about this? And how bad does it look when the applicant matches into their number 1 spot after showing that much commitment and dedication to a particular program. I'm guessing you wouldn't want to burn bridges even before your career has started (especially in a field where programs definitely do talk to each other?)

 

[danvasta]

Sorry last year and year before last*

 

[Raryn]

I know of couple of applicants both from this year and last who had this done to them, both because they showed commitment to the program and because the program liked them (obvi).. They ended up matching at their no.1 spot (this one in particular was their no.2 spot ) but isn't this a total violation of NRMP rules? Do you reckon that the PD knows about this? And how bad does it look when the applicant matches into their number 1 spot after showing that much commitment and dedication to a particular program. I'm guessing you wouldn't want to burn bridges even before your career has started (especially in a field where programs definitely do talk to each other?)

Any program can share whatever they want with any applicant without breaking the NRMP rules. What they cannot do is request (... or demand) the applicant share anything back. I've never heard of a program being quite so blatant, but *shrug*.

Also, I hope they cropped out the names/info of anyone else when they sent a picture of the ROL. Otherwise, if they shared other applicants information with their #1, that's extraordinarily poor form (and would likely be against some kind of rules, whether NRMP or privacy or something).

 

[j4pac]

Anyone can go back and change their ROL. I think that it all sounds a little stupid.

Not to mention...it is very poor form and I really hope that applicants aren't ranking programs based on where those programs will be ranking them. Rank where you want to go the most...period.

 

[tiedyeddog]

And how bad does it look when the applicant matches into their number 1 spot after showing that much commitment and dedication to a particular program. I'm guessing you wouldn't want to burn bridges even before your career has started (especially in a field where programs definitely do talk to each other?)

Why would it look bad to match into the program that wanted you number 1 and you yourself wanted number 1?

 

[tiedyeddog]

If I understand the vague scenario correctly...

The applicant planned on ranking the pic-snapping program #2, not #1 - but has shown them "commitment and dedication". So to the point of possibly being construed as misleading.

ah, I see now that I reread it and you explained it.

I think it would look bad only if you falsely told #2 that you were ranking them #1. During interviews this year I had some PD's flat out say not to do that and then if I did there would be repercussions down the line if I tried to stay in academics.

If you just expressed interest it won't matter. You can express interest in your entire rank list, that doesn't really mean much.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Agree.

It's certainly weird, but I suppose it's an attempt to provide "proof"?

But as a resident - I'm pretty sure if I took a picture of our ROL I'd be in major trouble with my PD. We aren't allowed to take copies of the list out from the rank meeting.

We never even got to see the rank list for ours. We had our resident session where we got to talk about everyone, but the final rank list was made after us and without our input.

 

[danvasta]

ah, I see now that I reread it and you explained it.

I think it would look bad only if you falsely told #2 that you were ranking them #1. During interviews this year I had some PD's flat out say not to do that and then if I did there would be repercussions down the line if I tried to stay in academics.

If you just expressed interest it won't matter. You can express interest in your entire rank list, that doesn't really mean much.

This applicant in particular told both(HER/HIS) #1 and #2 that she was ranking them BOTH #1 but they ended up matching into her/his actual #1, but I guess showed commitment to both. It ended up being the #2 program that sent this pic which I thought was weird. I merely expressed interest to my top programs and I specifically said I was "going to rank you high" but did not mention the actual rank.
What kind of repercussions are we talking about?

 

[gutonc]

This applicant in particular told both(HER/HIS) #1 and #2 that she was ranking them BOTH #1 but they ended up matching into her/his actual #1, but I guess showed commitment to both. It ended up being the #2 program that sent this pic which I thought was weird. I merely expressed interest to my top programs and I specifically said I was "going to rank you high" but did not mention the actual rank.
What kind of repercussions are we talking about?

Probably nothing until next March when it's time to sign the next year's contract. And conveniently 6 months too late to get back in the Match and 2 months too late to SOAP.

Or maybe no repercussions. Who can really say?

 

[tiedyeddog]

This applicant in particular told both(HER/HIS) #1 and #2 that she was ranking them BOTH #1 but they ended up matching into her/his actual #1, but I guess showed commitment to both. It ended up being the #2 program that sent this pic which I thought was weird. I merely expressed interest to my top programs and I specifically said I was "going to rank you high" but did not mention the actual rank.
What kind of repercussions are we talking about?

I applied to a very, very small field so I guess there is a higher chance you'd run into these people eventually if you stayed in academics. One PD said he remembered every applicant who told him they ranked his program #1 but actually didn't once the match came out. He said those people were denied spots on committees he was on and also they rejected for faculty positions when they interviewed for them at his program. He is well known in one of the large organized societies for my field so it seems very, very believable to me.

 

[Law2Doc]

1. In this day of computers, it's incredibly easy to create a fake list to take a picture of.

2. If the chief resident is graduating I'm not sure he really cares if the guy ranked first versus tenth ends up coming to the program enough to bother. You'd do your best sales pitch on interview day, but you are unlikely to go down such a hard sell road after that point. You'd leave the "ranked to match" crap to the PD. More often the residents on the committee tend to be advocates for the good applicants the residents all liked but the faculty isn't already trying to rank at the top.

 

[Law2Doc]

The OP appears to be applying to internal medicine, where the chief residents are people who've chosen to stay an extra year in an administrative position. It makes sense that they would be more actively involved in recruiting.

A person already calling themselves chief in March will be done in July. He didn't say incoming chiefs

 

[laboringaway]

I applied to a very, very small field so I guess there is a higher chance you'd run into these people eventually if you stayed in academics. One PD said he remembered every applicant who told him they ranked his program #1 but actually didn't once the match came out. He said those people were denied spots on committees he was on and also they rejected for faculty positions when they interviewed for them at his program. He is well known in one of the large organized societies for my field so it seems very, very believable to me.

Gah. I mean, it does not look good if an applicant does that, but why hold such a grudge? PD has NO IDEA what may have happened. Applicant may not have been lying and genuinely had that program as#1 until a family or spouse or health or (etc.) situation changed and they changed their mind.

 

[North meets South]

Gah. I mean, it does not look good if an applicant does that, but why hold such a grudge? PD has NO IDEA what may have happened. Applicant may not have been lying and genuinely had that program as#1 until a family or spouse or health or (etc.) situation changed and they changed their mind.

Integrity and following through matters. If one of the things you speculated was true, then he/she should have informed the program of the change if he/she didn't want to look like a weasel.

Granted, programs and applicants shouldn't be formulating their ROL based on how they're being ranked, but I guess that's too much to ask at this point.