Choosing hours in the medical profession

[45408]

umm no way am I becoming a nurse... I don't want to be embarrassed when I tell people my career.

Then I can't wait until you get laughed out of most of your potential employers' offices when you tell them how much you want to work.

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[medicinesux]

Props to you for even thinking the way you are! You are way ahead of the curve ball on this one. Expect to get a lot of slack from others for such a revolutionary way of thinking and going against the grain. In America we are programmed to toil away our lives to fatten the wallets of higher ups in our highly commercialized crap buying society.
You are right....time is priceless. How much is your free time worth? As a physician in the United States expect to work more and more hours to make less and less money in the future. Realistically speaking, to make the median income you need to put in the median hours which amount to around 60 hrs a week after residency. Dont forget to add in another 10 hrs to account for getting ready in the morning, commuting, and decompressing after work-- so you are looking at around 70 hrs a week of your life taken away from you (times this by 48 weeks and times this yet again by 30-40 years)! Oh and don't forget outside reading and attending conferences. And don't think you can just walk out of the hospital or clinic and completely forget about medicine- worries from work always find a way of creeping into your "free time". My advice, if you are having these thoughts do not go to medical school! I cannot say it enough. You will spare yourself years of agony and regret.

 

[Slide]

umm no way am I becoming a nurse... I don't want to be embarrassed when I tell people my career. Some of these suggestions are good though, but there's no way you can tell me ER physicians who specialize in overnight work aren't ever gonna be in demand; everywhere I hear about employers begging these types to come to them.

Plus a lot of you are getting the impression that I'm just in it for the money and I don't enjoy medicine. I can see how you might think that but it is not true. I wouldn't do some **** like real estate to get rich quick because I don't enjoy the profession. Like I said before, my most enjoyable future career (medicine) just happens to be one of the highest paying. Just because I am going against your status quo and would like long breaks in between practicing doesn't mean I don't value it. Who said that to enjoy a career you have to be a 10 hour a day monotonous drone for 40 years of your life?

Damn, nice troll, even I fell for it. Props.

 

[howelljolly]

umm no way am I becoming a nurse... I don't want to be embarrassed when I tell people my career. Some of these suggestions are good though, but there's no way you can tell me ER physicians who specialize in overnight work aren't ever gonna be in demand; everywhere I hear about employers begging these types to come to them.

Plus a lot of you are getting the impression that I'm just in it for the money and I don't enjoy medicine. I can see how you might think that but it is not true. I wouldn't do some **** like real estate to get rich quick because I don't enjoy the profession. Like I said before, my most enjoyable future career (medicine) just happens to be one of the highest paying. Just because I am going against your status quo and would like long breaks in between practicing doesn't mean I don't value it. Who said that to enjoy a career you have to be a 10 hour a day monotonous drone for 40 years of your life?

I think the 2 zillion EM residency slots that are 100% filled right now, will take care of the Night-shift EP shortage that you've noticed.... long before you ever get into EM.

Go to nursing school. Work in a Baylor program (i think thats what they are called) where you work 6 weekend shifts a month, and get paid a FT salary +benefits. You dont have to tell people you are a nurse.

 

[Hoo\/er]

Thanks for the replies... Locum Tenens looks like it's for me. I can probably rake in some good money too for my limited time since I am considering being a night owl in EM if I do this... I will hopefully always be in need somewhere in a decent sized city so I'll be able to have a permanent location. With the long breaks I won't even burn out!

Also, I'm not planning on taking vacations during a majority of my time off. Chilling at home is good enough for me. Lots of families make it just fine with 60k a year and hell we may even end up getting government benefits haha.

The way I see it, this is the wisest choice with the taxing on the rich and its future. Time is money, except it can't be taxed. What's the use of working all year when after the first few months you're making half of your hourly wage because of taxes? I'm gonna stop working when I feel my tax bracket is getting unfair and rake in the rest of my earnings in free time. The only property that can't be taxed is your time, and i'm gonna be as rich in time-dollars as anyone.


Well there's my manifesto, blow some holes in it

There's nothing at all wrong with what the OP is trying to do. He wants to live life now and not wait until he's dried-up and frail to enjoy it. Chances are you guys want it too, but are too proud to admit it. What he's talking about is taking "mini retirements" instead of vacations, and the people who live such a lifestyle are termed the new rich.

It can be done, and more information can be found in an awesome book called The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferris. It'll be the best $12 you've spent in a long time.

 

[Hurricane95]

Prostitution comes to mind.

But if you're fat and/or ugly, you may have to work more than 3 hours a day though.

 

[RosesRainbows]

Hi all, I couldn't find a general medicinal work forum but I figured this would be a good place to ask a general question about the medical profession.

Now, I really like medicine and science, but the one thing I like more is free time. I am going into medicine because I think it's a very interesting, rewarding, and enjoyable field, but truthfully I don't need or want a big house and cars and $250k a year (if I have to work 8 hour days all year for it...).

So, once I've worked full time a while and payed off my debts (which should be relatively low), I figure 50-60k a year is enough for me. Is it possible to work 4 months a year, and make 1/3 (even 1/4 is fine) of the yearly salary? That would be my preferred option, but working around 3 hours a day all year for a proportional pay would be fine as well.

Is this possible and in which specialties would it be easiest to do this in?

I would like to work part-time as a physician. We should both go into the same specialty and then apply for jobs together, telling them that we'll split the hours and the pay and the work.

I'm just kidding, but it's too bad that we can't do that. Or at least, not that I know of, but I'm just a pre-med.

 

[vtucci]

Our generation is going to change the way medicine is practiced. We will likely see more residency sharing and individuals (not just women) working part-time in a variety of specialties.

As has been said by other posters, you can find just about any set up if you are willing to make certain sacrifices (maybe with respect to pay and/or location).

I am going into emergency medicine and there are alot of EM docs who have a lot of interests. However, please do NOT go into EM only because it has some flexibility with scheduling. EM is an attitude, a calling like other specialties and tends to be best suited for certain people/personality types (not to say all different types cannot do this and be brillant at it). You may well be one of us. I recommend hanging out in the ED and seeing if you like emergency medicine and can see being part of this club.

 

[THP]

How about the PGA tour. You get to golf all over the world, can choose which tournaments to enter, and even the guy who comes in last makes a grip of money.

 

[USCguy]

Troll or not, I like the idea of not working 70 hours/week for the next 20 years. While I don't know if you will be able to do 3 hrs/day, you can probably find a situation that suits your needs well enough.

Hospitalist offers: 7days, ~12hr shifts in a row; 7 off; 7 ~12hr night shifts; 7 off...3 weeks vacation (plus the 6 months you already have off)...~130-160k (depending on area)...the hospitalist I shadowed worked this schedule (5 years out of residency). Interestingly, I also shadowed his brother (Colorectal surgeon in solo practice) who worked 361 days last year (seriously, he only took off christmas, wife's b-day, and 2 random saturdays). he was 20 years out of residency (and had a lot less hair)

check out the back of a JAMA

 

[TMP-SMX]

Certain people that want to work and don't want to be with family tend to gravitate to certain specialties that allow them to avoid those types of responsibilities. Your occupation obviously reduces some flexibility in your family life, but you should know this going in to certain specialties.

 

[Nappalachian]

How noble of PWA 33 to not want lots of money or fancy things, but then to criticize the profession of nursing. This kid says he loves the practice of medicine, but obviously knows nothing about it, due to his/her juvenile comments. This thread should end and so should this kids future.

 

[vtucci]

umm no way am I becoming a nurse... I don't want to be embarrassed when I tell people my career. Some of these suggestions are good though, but there's no way you can tell me ER physicians who specialize in overnight work aren't ever gonna be in demand; everywhere I hear about employers begging these types to come to them.

Plus a lot of you are getting the impression that I'm just in it for the money and I don't enjoy medicine. I can see how you might think that but it is not true. I wouldn't do some **** like real estate to get rich quick because I don't enjoy the profession. Like I said before, my most enjoyable future career (medicine) just happens to be one of the highest paying. Just because I am going against your status quo and would like long breaks in between practicing doesn't mean I don't value it. Who said that to enjoy a career you have to be a 10 hour a day monotonous drone for 40 years of your life?

I am planning in entering emergency medicine and I get incredibly frustrated when I hear about students entering the field solely for the perceived hours/lifestyle. No doubt that the hours are not like surgery or Ob/Gyn but they are often not set (i.e., not M-Th 8 hours each night each week of the year). They rotate and involve nights, overnights and days. I do not believe the OP is wrong in asserting docs who are willing to work overnights will be sought after.

To the OP, if you are only interested in the hours, you will hate your job and it will rub off on the people/staff around you. Emergency medicine is a calling. It is not for the weak or faint of heart. It is not for people playing at medicine and who are not interested in working hard. We work hard and we play hard. I would suggest you spend a good deal of time in the emergency department before making a decision. Many intelligent people are not able to handle the pace of EM. There is no shame in it. We all have our strengths. If after spending some time in the ED, you believe it is for you then I say welcome aboard and be happy in the knowledge that the hours are a great perk of the job and not the primary motivation of most of us.

And for heaven's sake to the OP, DO NOT EVER CRITICIZE NURSES. They are the glue that holds the medical profession together. Whoa to he/she who forgets that salient fact.

 

[Hallm_7]

There are ways to work less than 50 hours a week in most any specialty. You may have to give up income, but it's doable. There are countless small hospitals (<100 beds) in the US that need specialists desperately. The interesting thing is that many of these hospitals will supplement income in order to attract these docs, so while you're practice income might be down your total income would be closer to normal since the hospital would throw in some extra cash.

The hours that attendings work across the country is not equal to the hours that attendings work in the tertiary care centers that medical students rotate through. So using our attendings' hours as a basis for what we expect to work 10 years from now is not the most accurate way to extrapolate.

 

[cici1]

I am sick and tired of hearing that things are "a calling". How many of you said in your interviews you wanted to be a doctor because it was a calling? If you did and still got in... . Is it still a calling if you fail miserably at it? Is it still a calling if you hate what you do but you're only looking at the end goal?

And to the OP, best of luck! Maybe you should get your MBA. One of my relatives has it and spends less time working, travels a lot in the country and overseas, and he loves what he's doing! Perhaps you could do consulting.

 

[vtucci]

Medicine is a calling. There are easier ways of making a good living.

That being said many people enter the field for reasons other than the fact that they feel it is their calling (re: $$$, prestige, parental pressure etc). Moreover, even those who believe that medicine is their calling may end up choosing a specialty that they are not suited for. The result in the end is a miserable doctor.

 

[Law2Doc]

And to the OP, best of luck! Maybe you should get your MBA. One of my relatives has it and spends less time working, travels a lot in the country and overseas, and he loves what he's doing! Perhaps you could do consulting.

Just to let you know, an MBA is not, per se, a professional degree and so not really an alternative to MD, JD, etc. People don't tend to get them to get started in business. Folks usually start working and then later get the MBA (often at their employer's dime) as a "skill enhancer" in order to get promoted in the industry they have selected. So I wouldn't advise folks to get an MBA as an alternate career path.

 

[cici1]

Medicine is a calling. There are easier ways of making a good living.

That being said many people enter the field for reasons other than the fact that they feel it is their calling (re: $$$, prestige, parental pressure etc). Moreover, even those who believe that medicine is their calling may end up choosing a specialty that they are not suited for. The result in the end is a miserable doctor.

I agree that people who become doctors are miserable if they did it for prestige or because of parental pressure. However, I still respectfully disagree with you about medicine being a calling.

Are other areas of life callings? Like law? How do you know if you have this calling? Something indescribable pulls you to it? You want to help people, save lives, etc. (which you could do as a PA, nurse, nurse practitioner, teacher, fireman, etc.)?

Someone not being able to articulate reasons why they choose medicine, to me, shows they don't fully understand what they're getting into or what to expect. It's illogical. It's like like those horrible singers on American Idol who know that singing is what they were meant to do when really they are bad and people tell them that. Or like religious fanatics who say that they were called upon to do the work of G-d.

BUT if people say they want to do it because they love it, and can explain why (other than it's a calling), knowing all the pitfalls, then that's different. Even if they say it's cause of $, that's fine because they're being honest, and they know they'll have to work super hard to make the big bucks unless they get into a super competitive specialty.

Just to let you know, an MBA is not, per se, a professional degree and so not really an alternative to MD, JD, etc. People don't tend to get them to get started in business. Folks usually start working and then later get the MBA (often at their employer's dime) as a "skill enhancer" in order to get promoted in the industry they have selected. So I wouldn't advise folks to get an MBA as an alternate career path.

You're right Law2Doc. I guess I was just thinking about how one of my relative's friend does consulting but I forgot how he pointed out to me she never really wanted to go into medicine. She did get it to give her a leg up in the business like you said and get into consulting. My bad .

 

[vtucci]

When I said medicine was a calling I was referring to the profession as a whole and not just physicians but PAs, nurses, MAs etc.

It takes a certain type of person to truly help their fellow man when they are at their worst/most vulnerable. However, to make a difference in another person's life does not require an MD after our name.

Having been in law, I do not believe that most fields in law are truly a calling. Certainly being a prosecutor, human rights advocate etc can be but general corporate law? Not so much.

 

[Ross434]

just work part time as a hospitalist. shift work. 3 days a week? easy jobs to get. probably be able to clear 80k/year easy.

 

[uzybear]

I'm not planning on taking vacations during a majority of my time off. Chilling at home is good enough for me

i've just read between the lines: you want to play videogames all day, right?


btw, i am not a stranger to the desire to "work less, make less". i make **** right now and i don't feel a great need for a lot of money, but i do value TIME, mostly for music, books, writing, rock climbing, kayaking, surfing.................however, i also have a blazing desire to help folks and to study biology; whether this will balloon into medicine or teaching/research i've yet to see; and i'm considering switching to computer science, so i'm really ****ed with confusion right now, especially since i've found out i can go back to school (undergrad) in a MONTH, rather than wait a year for residency here in OR like i thought it's good to be confused, it means you're thinking peace

 

[uzybear]

Time is money, except it can't be taxed. What's the use of working all year when after the first few months you're making half of your hourly wage because of taxes? I'm gonna stop working when I feel my tax bracket is getting unfair

honestly, there is some truth in this, not a bad thought

 

[uzybear]

Unless you plan to be single, in which case it would be an ascetic lifestyle

lol, that's good; 60k/year = nothing but top-ramen and rice it's funny what counts as "ascetic" for med students.........

 

[uzybear]

umm no way am I becoming a nurse... I don't want to be embarrassed when I tell people my career

oops, i thought i was talking to an adult...................................forget what i said previously (well, keep the videogames), go fly a kite


just because i like to hear myself type, i'll wrap this up with the one true universal truth/answer to this:

to be a good doctor you must be PASSIONATE about what you do, determined, and interested; and if you are that, you won't want to work 3hrs a day; secondly, becoming a good doctor takes time (read: ongoing EXPERIENCE), and again, it has to be your THING, not just a part-time fling

 

[deleted77919]

lol, that's good; 60k/year = nothing but top-ramen and rice it's funny what counts as "ascetic" for med students.........

Did you read my post? I you have no debt, then fine. But if you borrowed $200,000 to go to school (bare minimum at my school without parental support), and somehow manage not to accrue interest during residency (not realistic), then your monthly payments will be $1,303.85, or $15,646.20 per year (for 30 years!) that comes out of after tax dollars. And you didn't get to start making any money before 30.