Choosing target med schools

[apples5]

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[gyngyn]

A CA resident needs to identify at least a dozen schools that might interview him/her. Even with your stellar stats you may have as few as 4 on on your list. Depending on the timing of your ap and your interview skills this might be enough but UCI, UCD and and a few more OOS would be more consistent with a successful first (and hopefully only) application.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Need moar safeties

 

[apples5]

A CA resident needs to identify at least a dozen schools that might interview him/her. Even with your stellar stats you may have as few as 4 on on your list. Depending on the timing of your ap and your interview skills this might be enough but UCI, UCD and and a few more OOS would be more consistent with a successful first (and hopefully only) application.

Thanks for replying! How many schools total should I apply to? As a CA resident, should I apply to more than 20?

 

[apples5]

Need moar safeties

This is my list of target schools. I was asking whether these would be adequate target schools, and then building my list of safeties and reaches around that. Thanks for replying though!

 

[Charles Darwin]

Penn and UCSF would be considered reaches. If you add the UC's and a few more safeties, you'll have a solid list.

Good luck!

 

[apples5]

Any more input would really be appreciated! 🙂

 

[mcloaf]

Fleshing out that list with the rest of the UC's and more mid-tier MD schools would be wise. You have a great MCAT, but the lower sGPA will make things a little harder I suspect. I wouldn't add more reaches than what you've listed as research is a big part of what top-tier schools are interested in, and seems to be a weakness in your app.

If you can afford it, applying to 20+ is not that unreasonable these days--though if you choose wisely you likely won't need that many.

 

[sliceofbread136]

This is my list of target schools. I was asking whether these would be adequate target schools, and then building my list of safeties and reaches around that. Thanks for replying though!

Well I think the list is alittle top heavy to be your target schools. A few of those are reaches for everyone.

 

[penguinism]

You should consider Penn a reach. For top 20 schools, your sGPA is weak and you have minimal research experience. You do have a great MCAT, though, which will help you.

Even as a CA resident, you shouldn't have to apply to more than 15-20 schools if you choose wisely. Realize that the CA schools are all very competitive, so don't bank on interviews from UCLA/UCSF/UCSD (or even UCI/UCD for that matter).

I believe that Brown only has a limited number of spaces for students outside of the combined program, though I'm not positive about the exact numbers. BU receives a ton of applications each year, so inherently many qualified candidates get rejected pre-interview (and again, you're competing for only about 120-130 spots due to several combined/linkage/SMP programs that send students to BUSM). I'm curious as to how you chose your target med schools. Also, what are your "safety" schools?

 

[apples5]

You should consider Penn a reach. For top 20 schools, your sGPA is weak and you have minimal research experience. You do have a great MCAT, though, which will help you.

Even as a CA resident, you shouldn't have to apply to more than 15-20 schools if you choose wisely. Realize that the CA schools are all very competitive, so don't bank on interviews from UCLA/UCSF/UCSD (or even UCI/UCD for that matter).

I believe that Brown only has a limited number of spaces for students outside of the combined program, though I'm not positive about the exact numbers. BU receives a ton of applications each year, so inherently many qualified candidates get rejected pre-interview (and again, you're competing for only about 120-130 spots due to several combined/linkage/SMP programs that send students to BUSM). I'm curious as to how you chose your target med schools. Also, what are your "safety" schools?

I chose my target schools by using a LizzyM excel spreadsheet that categorizes schools by "Hopeful," "Go For It," "High Chance," "Very High Chance," and "Very, Very High Chance" based on my LizzyM score, and narrowing it down by location and OOS-friendliness. I have the MSAR and am using it to further refine my list.

I haven't chosen my "safety" schools yet, but I will post here when I do. Do you have any suggestions? Would a school like NYMC be a safety or a target?

 

[apples5]

I just chose my target schools from "High Chance," to be more specific. But it sounds like I should be choosing from "Very High Chance" and "Very, Very High Chance?"

 

[sliceofbread136]

I chose my target schools by using a LizzyM excel spreadsheet that categorizes schools by "Hopeful," "Go For It," "High Chance," "Very High Chance," and "Very, Very High Chance" based on my LizzyM score, and narrowing it down by location and OOS-friendliness. I have the MSAR and am using it to further refine my list.

I haven't chosen my "safety" schools yet, but I will post here when I do. Do you have any suggestions? Would a school like NYMC be a safety or a target?

This is not a good method for top schools. Schools like Upenn could have an avg MCAT in the 40s if they wanted to. They choose their applicants based on fit and outside accomplishments mostly (that is if you already have the numbers). This process can be seemingly random and is why it is sometimes known as a "crapshoot".

 

[apples5]

This is not a good method for top schools. Schools like Upenn could have an avg MCAT in the 40s if they wanted to. They choose their applicants based on fit and outside accomplishments mostly (that is if you already have the numbers). This process can be seemingly random and is why it is sometimes known as a "crapshoot".

I see. So how should I go about choosing schools? More mid-tiers and just two or three schools like UPenn?

 

[sliceofbread136]

I see. So how should I go about choosing schools? More mid-tiers and just two or three schools like UPenn?

Personally I would apply to a good mix of mid tier, top tier, and some safeties (with your "target" being mid tier). Try to apply to alot of schools.

It seems you want to attend a top tier, so apply to as many as you want. Just be sure to have a foundation of mid tiers and safeties. The only thing that should limit the amount of schools is the $$ u can spend. Just dog it through those secondaries. Oh and apply EARLY, I cannot stress this enough.

I think you may have a chance to get a top tier acceptance. The only thing that may hold you back is your somewhat lackluster research. Goodluck!

 

[apples5]

Personally I would apply to a good mix of mid tier, top tier, and some safeties. Try to apply to alot of schools.

It seems you want to attend a top tier, so apply to as many as you want. Just be sure to have a foundation of mid tiers and safeties. The only thing that should limit the amount of schools is the $$ u can spend. Just dog it through those secondaries. Oh and apply EARLY, I cannot stress this enough.

I think you may have a chance to get a top tier acceptance. The only thing that may hold you back is your somewhat lackluster research. Goodluck!

Would it help to do some research during my upcoming spring semester prior to applying, or should I just focus on putting my application together? Thanks for all of your help!

 

[sliceofbread136]

Would it help to do some research during my upcoming spring semester prior to applying, or should I just focus on putting my application together? Thanks for all of your help!

More research is always better, especially if you can produce something substantial with it like a poster or even a pub. You should still have time to work on your app, just try to get started on it in may and get it in early june. I didn't get my app in to mid july, and it sucks to see your chances at some schools take a big hit because you got your app in later.

 

[penguinism]

Would it help to do some research during my upcoming spring semester prior to applying, or should I just focus on putting my application together? Thanks for all of your help!

If you're interested in research (and attending a research-oriented school), then YES get involved in more research ASAP. Be prepared to continue working on the project throughout the application season so that you can discuss it during interviews.

If you hate research and are just doing it to check a box, then don't bother. You'd be better off attending a school that places more of an emphasis on clinical care.

How I chose my schools: I began with a geographic boundary that I was comfortable with, as I had no interest in relocating to the other side of the country. I used the spreadsheet as a general guide, but it honestly was not super useful. I looked through the MSAR and targeted schools that were within my geographic boundary and had stats that were close to mine (using my MCAT score as my guide since it was weaker than my GPA). I also looked at the schools' websites to find out more about their mission, curriculum, student body, and opportunities. I chose the schools that I thought would be a good fit for me and tacked on a few safeties and reaches. I spent a long time putting together my school list, but it definitely paid off. Out of my completed applications, <5 schools did not offer me an interview. One caveat is that I had a fairly strong research background that made me competitive enough for a few top 20 schools to give me a shot (and I currently attend one).

 

[apples5]

If you're interested in research (and attending a research-oriented school), then YES get involved in more research ASAP. Be prepared to continue working on the project throughout the application season so that you can discuss it during interviews.

If you hate research and are just doing it to check a box, then don't bother. You'd be better off attending a school that places more of an emphasis on clinical care.

How I chose my schools: I began with a geographic boundary that I was comfortable with, as I had no interest in relocating to the other side of the country. I used the spreadsheet as a general guide, but it honestly was not super useful. I looked through the MSAR and targeted schools that were within my geographic boundary and had stats that were close to mine (using my MCAT score as my guide since it was weaker than my GPA). I also looked at the schools' websites to find out more about their mission, curriculum, student body, and opportunities. I chose the schools that I thought would be a good fit for me and tacked on a few safeties and reaches. I spent a long time putting together my school list, but it definitely paid off. Out of my completed applications, <5 schools did not offer me an interview. One caveat is that I had a fairly strong research background that made me competitive enough for a few top 20 schools to give me a shot (and I currently attend one).

Thanks so much! It's true that I don't like research, so I guess it makes sense to not go for the top 20 despite how tempting it is.

 

[anguisette]

USC, Boston, NYU, Rochester, UCLA, U of Virginia, Dartmouth, Brown, Tufts, UCSF, UCSD, and UPenn.

Here's some info about me:
cGPA: 3.66 (upward trend, expected 3.71 after next semester), sGPA: 3.52 (expected 3.57)
MCAT: 38 (PS13, VR13, BS12)

I agree with what everyone else is saying. Consider UPenn a reach. For the most bang for your buck, Brown isn't a good choice because of the limited seats for OOS people and Boston isn't a good choice because the large number of people that apply.

CA schools are a bit unpredictable in general I think, but you should apply to all the UCs no matter what.

Some other safer "target" schools around that range you may want to consider: Case Western, Baylor, and Emory.

 

[apples5]

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[apples5]

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[anguisette]

Thanks for everyone's input! I've done some more research and come up with a full list of schools encompassing safeties to reaches. How is it?

1) UCSD
2) UCSF
3) UCLA
4) USC
5) UCI
6) UCD
7) UCR
8) Yale
9) Northwestern
10) Baylor
11) Columbia
12) UPenn
13) U Rochester
14) UConn
15) U Wisconsin
16) Tufts
17) U Maryland
18) U Vermont
19) SUNY Downstate
20) Rush

Overall, I mostly care about the location. I'd prefer to be somewhat close to either coast. Are there any schools I should remove or consider adding? Early exposure to patients is also nice.

It looks pretty good to me. You may want to double check the OOS odds for UConn, Wisconsin, and Maryland. They didn't make my initial cut off for med schools and I think it may have been because they're some of the less friendly OOS schools. If you do replace them with other state schools, the SUNYs seem pretty friendly to California applicants. Maybe SUNY Stony Brook or Buffalo? If you're looking for other private schools, Albert Einstein, NYU, and Hofstra are all in NY too and have better OOS int%.

Also, you are a bit light on research. I would try to do some more before your app if you can.

 

[apples5]

It looks pretty good to me. You may want to double check the OOS odds for UConn, Wisconsin, and Maryland. They didn't make my initial cut off for med schools and I think it may have been because they're some of the less friendly OOS schools. If you do replace them with other state schools, the SUNYs seem pretty friendly to California applicants. Maybe SUNY Stony Brook or Buffalo? If you're looking for other private schools, Albert Einstein, NYU, and Hofstra are all in NY too and have better OOS int%.

Also, you are a bit light on research. I would try to do some more before your app if you can.

Thank you! I'll check them out!

 

[darkjedi]

Consider Jefferson and Temple on top of the NYC schools the others have mentioned.

Due to the disparity between your spectacular MCAT and more mediocre cGPA/sGPA, you need to cast a wider net. It would be very easy for a top tier school to dismiss your application due to your lower GPA, but also for a lower tier school to dismiss it due to your high MCAT.

 

[apples5]

Consider Jefferson and Temple on top of the NYC schools the others have mentioned.

Due to the disparity between your spectacular MCAT and more mediocre cGPA/sGPA, you need to cast a wider net. It would be very easy for a top tier school to dismiss your application due to your lower GPA, but also for a lower tier school to dismiss it due to your high MCAT.

By wider net, do you mean that I should apply to more schools in general? Like 25+?

 

[darkjedi]

By wider net, do you mean that I should apply to more schools in general? Like 25+?

I submitted a primary to about 18 schools with somewhat similar stats to you and was very close to winding up with zero acceptances. Your stats will likely not get you screened anywhere, which is good, but you may have to work your butt off convincing adcoms to give you interviews. Applying to more schools that you are interested in increases your chance of being accepted at least somewhere.

 

[apples5]

I submitted a primary to about 18 schools with somewhat similar stats to you and was very close to winding up with zero acceptances. Your stats will likely not get you screened anywhere, which is good, but you may have to work your butt off convincing adcoms to give you interviews. Applying to more schools that you are interested in increases your chance of being accepted at least somewhere.

It's definitely interesting to hear from somebody with similar stats! Your MDapps was really helpful. Hopefully I can end up in a good school like you 🙂

 

[aspiring20]

Consider Jefferson and Temple on top of the NYC schools the others have mentioned.

Due to the disparity between your spectacular MCAT and more mediocre cGPA/sGPA, you need to cast a wider net. It would be very easy for a top tier school to dismiss your application due to your lower GPA, but also for a lower tier school to dismiss it due to your high MCAT.

i thought that this is mostly a "myth"? are you basically saying that your MCAT can be too high?

 

[darkjedi]

i thought that this is mostly a "myth"? are you basically saying that your MCAT can be too high?

It's a highly denied myth, but if a lower-tier school can only interview 800 applicants a year, why waste spots for for applicants that they know are going to be accepted to better schools and go there instead? There's a lot of talk about 'school mission' congruence and what not, but in the end the admissions committees are trying to fill their classes with the most qualified people they can recruit.

You can lower the risk of that happening by expressing direct interest in the schools you apply for. Figure out what makes a school unique and the programs they offer for their students. While most medical schools are relatively homogenous, they still pride themselves on things that set them slightly apart. Don't be afraid of writing them letters of interest and letting them know you really are serious about their schools.

 

[sliceofbread136]

It's a highly denied myth, but if a lower-tier school can only interview 800 applicants a year, why waste spots for for applicants that they know are going to be accepted to better schools and go there instead? There's a lot of talk about 'school mission' congruence and what not, but in the end the admissions committees are trying to fill their classes with the most qualified people they can recruit.

You can lower the risk of that happening by expressing direct interest in the schools you apply for. Figure out what makes a school unique and the programs they offer for their students. While most medical schools are relatively homogenous, they still pride themselves on things that set them slightly apart. Don't be afraid of writing them letters of interest and letting them know you really are serious about their schools.

Direct interest is critical to avoiding that fate. Sends letters and explain your interest thoroughly in secondaries.

 

[jcaptian]

Thanks for everyone's input! I've done some more research and come up with a full list of schools encompassing safeties to reaches. How is it?

1)UCSD
2)UCSF
3)UCLA
4)USC
5)UCI
6)UCD
7)UCR
8)Yale
9)Northwestern
10)Baylor
11)Columbia
12)UPenn
13)U Rochester
14)UConn
15)U Wisconsin
16)Tufts
17) U Maryland
18)U Vermont
19)SUNY Downstate
20)Rush

Overall, I mostly care about the location. I'd prefer to be somewhat close to either coast. Are there any schools I should remove or consider adding? Early exposure to patients is also nice.

Let me start by saying I think you list is ok for the most part. I think you should drop UConn and UWisconsin due to their strong IS preference. Replace those schools with two mid tiers (30+) with 6000 or less applicants. Once you get above 6000 I really believe it becomes much more difficult (I'm looking at you GWU, Jefferson, Georgetown). Be weary of that fact. Also realize CA is a very competitive state so those IS schools may also be a challenge. Although I think your MCAT is stellar may negate that fact.

I also diagree with Darkjedi in having to apply to more schools to gain acceptance. Not to attack Darkjedi, but most of his schools came from the top 30 school (with the exception of BU, Jefferson, Georgetwon, and Einstein which are all in very desirable cities and have 7000+ applicants). Many will debate where the cut off is, I think anything inside the top 30 is a challenging ball game. If you are apply strategically you will not need to apply to more than 15.

Since your research experience is limited, and your GPA is on the lower side, be flexible where you apply. I think you will get some IIs in the top 30 if you apply early. Maybe aim for 6/7 in the top tier and 8/9 schools 30+. Put in your best effort in all areas (researching and selecting schools you FIT well at - GPA, MCAT, mission, research experience emphasis, diversity emphasis, applicant pool size, IS/OOS preference, location - working on your PS, primary, secondary) and hope for the best. I think you'll be fine in the end. Best of luck!

 

[aspiring20]

It's a highly denied myth, but if a lower-tier school can only interview 800 applicants a year, why waste spots for for applicants that they know are going to be accepted to better schools and go there instead? There's a lot of talk about 'school mission' congruence and what not, but in the end the admissions committees are trying to fill their classes with the most qualified people they can recruit.

You can lower the risk of that happening by expressing direct interest in the schools you apply for. Figure out what makes a school unique and the programs they offer for their students. While most medical schools are relatively homogenous, they still pride themselves on things that set them slightly apart. Don't be afraid of writing them letters of interest and letting them know you really are serious about their schools.

but isnt that only true for high MCAT and high GPA? if your GPA is low (3.3ish) but your MCAT is high (>34), shouldn't "lower-tiered" (god i hate using that phrase) schools still serious consider you?

 

[darkjedi]

but isnt that only true for high MCAT and high GPA? if your GPA is low (3.3ish) but your MCAT is high (>34), shouldn't "lower-tiered" (god i hate using that phrase) schools still serious consider you?

That may be the case if your GPA is much below the average, however you have a respectable GPA (around the average MD matriculant), but a very good MCAT. There are not many applicants that have drastically disparate stats, so it is difficult to predict what exactly will happen. I should point out that it is only a risk that "lower"-tier schools will pass over your application. Such a risk, as sliceofbread and I have pointed out can be minimized as long as you express interest directly in the school.

 

[aspiring20]

That may be the case if your GPA is much below the average, however you have a respectable GPA (around the average MD matriculant), but a very good MCAT. There are not many applicants that have drastically disparate stats, so it is difficult to predict what exactly will happen. I should point out that it is only a risk that "lower"-tier schools will pass over your application. Such a risk, as sliceofbread and I have pointed out can be minimized as long as you express interest directly in the school.

i see. i agree the OP definitely have a good GPA but a terrific MCAT. so in his case, he should focus on mid-upper tier schools.

 

[darkjedi]

i see. i agree the OP definitely have a good GPA but a terrific MCAT. so in his case, he should focus on mid-upper tier schools.

oops i mistook you for OP, haha sorry

 

[aspiring20]

oops i mistook you for OP, haha sorry

haha no problem. i would certainly WISH to be OP with his overall great stats. my sGPA will never reach OP's number, but my cGPA is good and i am studying hard for the MCAT right now