Christian Residencies

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This is a heated debate, which I enjoy thoroughly.

Beyond the various issues in which the Christian church does not agree with the ethics of modern medicine, I don't see a whole lot of conflicts with a Christian residency.

Residency is a strange place which absorbs most of your life for several years. I can understand if people want to go somewhere they will feel more welcomed. Every residency has a particular 'feel' to it, which you may or may not resonate with. Mine is 'mercernary', which is one of the reasons I'm not so happy where I am.

I know of some 'Jewish-friendly' residencies in New York in which religious Jews are not scheduled for Shabbat shifts. They get the crap shifts other days to compensate.

And going beyond this PC BS - A WOMAN HAS A RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!! Anyone who's worked in a urban medical center knows that the saddest thing is an unwanted child, or a hundred thousand of them.
 
Originally posted by beyond all hope
And going beyond this PC BS - A WOMAN HAS A RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!! Anyone who's worked in a urban medical center knows that the saddest thing is an unwanted child, or a hundred thousand of them.

if they are unwanted, why did they have sex to begin with? oh wait rape right? actually rape accounts for less than 1% of abortions... but they dont tell ya that do they??

i am not saying to not talk about pros/cons of abortion or whatever... im saying that if it is NOT a matter of life or death for the mother, then i would never prescribe any means to abortion.

i guess that is my 'choice' in this abortion issue. if the mother to be wants to get an abortion, then im thinking she will find some one, somewhere, such as yourself, to help her to that end. there are free clinics and what not to help abort.

http://www.boundless.org/regulars/kaufman/a0000848.html

http://www.bfl.org/rape_and_incest.htm
 
Originally posted by cooldreams
if they are unwanted, why did they have sex to begin with? oh wait rape right? actually rape accounts for less than 1% of abortions... but they dont tell ya that do they??

i am not saying to not talk about pros/cons of abortion or whatever... im saying that if it is NOT a matter of life or death for the mother, then i would never prescribe any means to abortion.

i guess that is my 'choice' in this abortion issue. if the mother to be wants to get an abortion, then im thinking she will find some one, somewhere, such as yourself, to help her to that end. there are free clinics and what not to help abort.

http://www.boundless.org/regulars/kaufman/a0000848.html

http://www.bfl.org/rape_and_incest.htm


oh shoot, im sorry, i had my numbers a little backwards:

"But how many of these abortions are actually "hard cases?" Here the deception comes to light. Studies of rape victims conclude pregnancy results in less than one percent of rapes. Indeed, in a study of 1,900 abortion clients in 1987, only one woman claimed to be the victim of rape or incest"

so it is not 1% of aborts are from rape, it is 1% of PREGNANCIES are from rape, and then ave about 1 in 1900 abortions are because of rape... sorry about the number mix up.. 😀
 
indeed... bunches of ppl out there doin the horizontal mombo with no concern of their consequences, then expect a simple medical procedure to take them back to square 1. dont work like that.... there is such a tremendous amount of emotional distress that you are left to contend with... then agian,, i guess you could get some psych drugs to make you forget... or drink your sorrows away... shoot - maybe you could do both... i think the psych drugs are supposed to enhance the effects of alcohol right??

🙄
 
I hope at this point that a majority of people on this forum have stopped reading this argument, but because I am personally offended frequently by people like Jesus nut, I felt it necessary to chime in.

When a good personal friend of mine died from a lung disease, I gave the eulogy at his funeral. Surrounded by some of my family but most of his, I poured my heart out about the love I had for this person and the way he impacted the lives of so many people. I spoke with great admiration in the hopes of celebrating his life and what he lived for.

Following the ceremony I received great support from many people there. Then one of Jesus Freak's brethren came and ruined everything for me. She felt she could approach me in my time of need with comments like "Don't you wish you could see your friend again...If you ever want to see your friend again, you need to accept our savior jesus christ." Basically, she ruined my mourning and celebration by trying to cause me to convert to her religion in a very delicate time. She was a friend of a friend and I will never forgive her for this. Every time I see her my hatred boils up inside of me. She had good intentions, much like Jesus dude does, but she, like so many conversionary christians had the tact of a tornado in a trailor park. This has happened to me in other situations with other people as well. It is NEVER done tactfully.

I encourage people like Jesus Freak to go to your Christian residency and treat only Christian patients and not bring your religious obsession inside the institutions I will be learning or treating patients in. You will be valuable to the people who have CHOSEN your hospital as a physician and a religious counselor. In my hospitals, if you are outspoken, you will be a nuisance as often as you help, and the two do not even things out in the end.
 
Originally posted by rustybruce
I hope at this point that a majority of people on this forum have stopped reading this argument, but because I am personally offended frequently by people like Jesus nut, I felt it necessary to chime in.

When a good personal friend of mine died from a lung disease, I gave the eulogy at his funeral. Surrounded by some of my family but most of his, I poured my heart out about the love I had for this person and the way he impacted the lives of so many people. I spoke with great admiration in the hopes of celebrating his life and what he lived for.

Following the ceremony I received great support from many people there. Then one of Jesus Freak's brethren came and ruined everything for me. She felt she could approach me in my time of need with comments like "Don't you wish you could see your friend again...If you ever want to see your friend again, you need to accept our savior jesus christ." Basically, she ruined my mourning and celebration by trying to cause me to convert to her religion in a very delicate time. She was a friend of a friend and I will never forgive her for this. Every time I see her my hatred boils up inside of me. She had good intentions, much like Jesus dude does, but she, like so many conversionary christians had the tact of a tornado in a trailor park. This has happened to me in other situations with other people as well. It is NEVER done tactfully.

I encourage people like Jesus Freak to go to your Christian residency and treat only Christian patients and not bring your religious obsession inside the institutions I will be learning or treating patients in. You will be valuable to the people who have CHOSEN your hospital as a physician and a religious counselor. In my hospitals, if you are outspoken, you will be a nuisance as often as you help, and the two do not even things out in the end.

hmm... another person bringing a very emotionally distraught circumstance to the table, when a christain was trying to convert someone.

guys i have said this time and time again, you cant make someone convert to something, and i am not trying to do that nor could i do that even if i wanted to. if someone is trying to make you convert to whatever, then they are doing everything all wrong. not all christians are like that. i am not like that.

i have not asked any of you to become a christain, and if you do not want to be one, then i certainly dont want you to be one.

also remember that there are many ppl out there 'wolf in sheeps clothes' that say they are one thing, and are really just feeding off of you.

the best thing you can do as a christain is to live as close to the guidelines that have been set down in the bible, reflect the truth and love that IS God. ppl cant help but START conversations with you. man i dont even start any conversations, its always someone else who WANTED to talk about it, and i talk with co-workers, classmates, family, friends, even plain strangers every day.

i can clearly see you are upset about what happend. but you have to move on. taking the loss of a very close friend out on someone who was being naive or obnoxious will do nothing for your friend or for you or for that person.

oh and i must say, based on my current talks, you have still decided to call me a 'Jesus nut' or 'Jesus Freak' or even a 'nuisance'. honestly, i take that as a complement.
 
Originally posted by cooldreams
guys i have said this time and time again, you cant make someone convert to something, and i am not trying to do that nor could i do that even if i wanted to. if someone is trying to make you convert to whatever, then they are doing everything all wrong. not all christians are like that. i am not like that.
i


Here is Cooldreams talking about people being beaten and imprisoned for refusing to be ?converted:? "well, you know, maybe it was harsh or wrong. who knows. maybe it is just what people needed. look at everyone today."

I smell a lot of BS here, I need to log off.
 
Originally posted by alexPDX
Here is Cooldreams talking about people being beaten and imprisoned for refusing to be ?converted:? "well, you know, maybe it was harsh or wrong. who knows. maybe it is just what people needed. look at everyone today."

I smell a lot of BS here, I need to log off.

yes exactly... beaten and probablly even killed... for - REFUSING TO BE CONVERTED. now what did i say ... all this time - you cant make someone believe in God if they refuse. why is that? seems easy to convince many ppl of many things... but not God... interesting to say the least.

now if you are saying that we should start it up again, and start beating ppl... no im not saying to do that. that is obviously wrong, Jesus never said to do that, not even hinted at it - quite the opposite actually.

as far as "maybe it is just what ppl needed. look at everyone today" i am refering to a change in the morals of today, a slide down hill. an increase in crime, and a decrease in ethics and values. maybe it is what some ppl today need to get them to stop doing drugs, hiring hookers and then killing them, goin out and shooting random ppl, etc etc... i dunno... it is not what is gonna happen, so it doesnt even matter. if you have a solution, lets hear it cuz the problem is only getting worse, which means whatever was in existance to begin with was better.

😀
 
Originally posted by cooldreams
yes exactly... beaten and probablly even killed... for - REFUSING TO BE CONVERTED. now what did i say ... all this time - you cant make someone believe in God if they refuse. why is that? seems easy to convince many ppl of many things... but not God... interesting to say the least.

now if you are saying that we should start it up again, and start beating ppl... no im not saying to do that. that is obviously wrong, Jesus never said to do that, not even hinted at it - quite the opposite actually.

as far as "maybe it is just what ppl needed. look at everyone today" i am refering to a change in the morals of today, a slide down hill. an increase in crime, and a decrease in ethics and values. maybe it is what some ppl today need to get them to stop doing drugs, hiring hookers and then killing them, goin out and shooting random ppl, etc etc... i dunno... it is not what is gonna happen, so it doesnt even matter. if you have a solution, lets hear it cuz the problem is only getting worse, which means whatever was in existance to begin with was better.

😀

No offense, but reading your statements I realize that your logic is haphazard at best. Do I have a solution for improoving human condition? Sure I do, but so does everyone else. The problem is that each of us has a different take on what it takes to make our world better. Most likely not one person or group has the whole answer. So don?t tell me that Christianity as we know it IS the answer, when history demonstrates that attempts to ?bring people to God? ended with abuse, suffering, and murder. The number of people who suffered because of religious persecution is vastly higher than the victims of any other social turmoil. And I think that most Christians today realize and recognize that everyone has the right to his or her own set of beliefs, or lack of thereof. Everyone agrees that today?s society has serious problems. But to say that a certain religion and its morals (by the way, Christianity does not have the exclusivity to the term; there are other philosophies of life that are ?moral.?) has the answer to humanities woes, shows a surprising lack of historical insight.
Also, to imply that if you?re not religious you are immoral and unethical is preposterous. But, of course, you will retort with ?I?m not saying that.? Well, what ARE you exactly saying.
 
I am a non-practicing gay jew who is pro-choice and anti-death penalty. Do you think I will fit in well at one of these "Christian" residencies?:horns:
 
Originally posted by Histrionic
I am a non-practicing gay jew who is pro-choice and anti-death penalty. Do you think I will fit in well at one of these "Christian" residencies?:horns:

:laugh: :clap: :laugh:
 
Originally posted by alexPDX
No offense, but reading your statements I realize that your logic is haphazard at best. Do I have a solution for improoving human condition? Sure I do, but so does everyone else. The problem is that each of us has a different take on what it takes to make our world better. Most likely not one person or group has the whole answer. So don?t tell me that Christianity as we know it IS the answer, when history demonstrates that attempts to ?bring people to God? ended with abuse, suffering, and murder. The number of people who suffered because of religious persecution is vastly higher than the victims of any other social turmoil. And I think that most Christians today realize and recognize that everyone has the right to his or her own set of beliefs, or lack of thereof. Everyone agrees that today?s society has serious problems. But to say that a certain religion and its morals (by the way, Christianity does not have the exclusivity to the term; there are other philosophies of life that are ?moral.?) has the answer to humanities woes, shows a surprising lack of historical insight.
Also, to imply that if you?re not religious you are immoral and unethical is preposterous. But, of course, you will retort with ?I?m not saying that.? Well, what ARE you exactly saying.

oh dont worry, you cant offend me 😀

well you said:
"when history demonstrates that attempts to ?bring people to God? ended with abuse"

this is actually getting old. lets see how many times in just this thread i have said "what i am trying to say" shall we?

1) now what did i say ... all this time - you cant make someone believe in God if they refuse. why is that? seems easy to convince many ppl of many things... but not God... interesting to say the least.

2) guys i have said this time and time again, you cant make someone convert to something, and i am not trying to do that nor could i do that even if i wanted to. if someone is trying to make you convert to whatever, then they are doing everything all wrong. not all christians are like that. i am not like that.

3) Christianity is about Jesus. Jesus died on the cross for all of us. It is your choice to choose to accept that or not.

4) you are right, if a doc is trying to convert a dieing patient by scaring them, that is wrong. i would never do that. but if i found a patient open to talk about God, then yes, i would definitely talk about it.

5) you cannot convert someone, it is their choice to do something...

6) have you actually been out there on religious missions?? the ones ive seen... missions give help to everyone... during and after their work they are voluntarily asked about God and such... its amazing... these people WANT to know about God... kinda makes you think that maybe the missionaires would be better used here in usa where it is wrong(??????) to be religious....

eh... so its in reverse chronological order, and i got tire of looking after 6...

the way that i see it, here is the arguement:

YOU SAY: christianity is bad because they force their religion on others

I SAY: christianity teaches us to follow the moral codes of the bible, and that to accept the fact that Jesus died for our sins on the cross is completely your choice-that nothing i say or anyone else says can make you believe.

then you repeat...

if you want to broadent the scope of this arguement go ahead but you are 'beating a dead horse' here so to speak...

religious persecution vs social turmoil?? hmm there is a good ice breaker hehe... check it out :

simple everyday social turmoil:

1) (abortions-25 yr history) - http://www.nrlc.org/news/2001/NRL01/roe.html
estimated at more than 40,000,000 abortions since it became legal. and on average about 1.5million babies a year....

2) USA trivia - the most ppl ever died in American war (200 yr history)? When america was at war with itself! (sounds a bit like social turmoil to me) the estimated total death count is about 650,000 -
http://www.usahistory.com/trivia/historical/hc14d.htm
 
Originally posted by cooldreams
oh dont worry, you cant offend me 😀




1) (abortions-25 yr history) - estimated at more than 40,000,000...bortion, then perhaps YOU shouldn't have one!
 
hey man dont worry, i wont 🙂 that is my choice, and that is what i have been saying all the while....

l8rs!
 
dewds listen.. im not going to condemn anyone for doing it.. that is not my place... that is between you and God.

all im saying is that i am not going to be a party to any procedure sucking the brains out of a baby until its skull collapses and its wiggling arms go limp. if that is what you enjoy, then i guess that is what you want to do with your time here on earth...

have fun man..
 
Interesting topic. I must admit that I never realized there were "Christian Residencies" and although I was raised in a Christian church and have now accepted Christianity as my faith and foundation I would have never considered such a program. I would naive to think that my faith is not incorporated into the way I practice medicine; yet I think it is that belief that would guide me away from such a program.

Spirituality, religion, and cultural beliefs play critical roles in health and the way our patients access and navigate the health care system. To fail to acknowledge this is to do our patients a disservice. I think it's important for us as physicians to be open to our patients and colleagues varied beliefs and backgrounds. It's unrealistic and unethical for us to presume others see the world as we do. It's also dangerous to make presumptions based on outward appearances; sometimes the tough questions need to be asked. But asked in a nonpresumptive, nonjudgemental manner. Honestly I can't imagine not having the cultural and spiritual diversity and I definitely think my residency experience has been richer for it; and I've grown in my faith as result.

As far as praying with patients I think there are times where this can be very appropriate and helpful and I don't think we have to share our patients beliefs to be respectful of them. I had a patients family recently comment that my name "didn't sound Jewish". He was right it doesn't and isn't and I think I said about as much. He was then surprised that I had known to call the Rabbi to come pray with their family as his wife was being transferred to the ICU. Although not Jewish I knew of his wife's strong faith and knew what the right thing to do was (and was fortunate to be at a hospital with multiple chaplaincy links).

My faith guides my daily life, reminds me to be compassionate and not to judge. I see my quest to become a competent physician as a joint effort my own efforts with God's guidance. I have my moments of humbleness (probably not enough of them) when I realize that the successful difficult intubation of a 24 week gestational infant or the one stick central line in the frail 74 year old who's spitfire personalilty reminds me of my own grandmother are merely God's work through my hands. So that is my faith; we all have our own story.
 
Originally posted by RuralMedicine
Interesting topic. I must admit that I never realized there were "Christian Residencies" and although I was raised in a Christian church and have now accepted Christianity as my faith and foundation I would have never considered such a program. I would naive to think that my faith is not incorporated into the way I practice medicine; yet I think it is that belief that would guide me away from such a program.

Spirituality, religion, and cultural beliefs play critical roles in health and the way our patients access and navigate the health care system. To fail to acknowledge this is to do our patients a disservice. I think it's important for us as physicians to be open to our patients and colleagues varied beliefs and backgrounds. It's unrealistic and unethical for us to presume others see the world as we do. It's also dangerous to make presumptions based on outward appearances; sometimes the tough questions need to be asked. But asked in a nonpresumptive, nonjudgemental manner. Honestly I can't imagine not having the cultural and spiritual diversity and I definitely think my residency experience has been richer for it; and I've grown in my faith as result.

As far as praying with patients I think there are times where this can be very appropriate and helpful and I don't think we have to share our patients beliefs to be respectful of them. I had a patients family recently comment that my name "didn't sound Jewish". He was right it doesn't and isn't and I think I said about as much. He was then surprised that I had known to call the Rabbi to come pray with their family as his wife was being transferred to the ICU. Although not Jewish I knew of his wife's strong faith and knew what the right thing to do was (and was fortunate to be at a hospital with multiple chaplaincy links).

My faith guides my daily life, reminds me to be compassionate and not to judge. I see my quest to become a competent physician as a joint effort my own efforts with God's guidance. I have my moments of humbleness (probably not enough of them) when I realize that the successful difficult intubation of a 24 week gestational infant or the one stick central line in the frail 74 year old who's spitfire personalilty reminds me of my own grandmother are merely God's work through my hands. So that is my faith; we all have our own story.

Very well said RuralM! 👍
 
Originally posted by Macken
I guess I'd have to throw my 2 cents in again (sorry if it's unwelcome) and say that religion really has no place in medicine. I, for one, would be offended if I worked with a group of doctors that practiced their religion within the hospital or private practice. It's offensive to those that don't share their religious viewpoint, and could be intimidating to other doctors/residents/patients that might feel left out or awkward being exposed to religion within the practice of medicine.

Heaven forbid one practice their religion lest somebody be offended. So long as your religion stops short of flying planes into buildings, practice it as you like. Religion has place in medicine just as it has place in the rest of life. If you are offended by those who pray, wear crosses, special headgear or who have "strange" habits such as not taking blood transfusions, not smoking, not drinking alcohol, not using stimulants etc, perhaps YOU are the one who "has no place in medicine." Tolerance is a good thing, both for the "wicked" and for the "righteous." Let's all work on being offended less often, and working to understand the viewpoints of others.
 
I quote the great Samuel Shem from House of God

In regards to religion and an increase of MICU deaths

"I don't understand," said Rabbi Fuchs.
"Isn't it just possible that God is punishing us with these deaths, and that we should do everything within our power to follow his Passover Laws? Like paint the doorposts of the Unit, use special Passover dishes, leave a cup of wine for Elijah the Prophet, and so on?" (Roy Basch)
The Black-bearded intellectual Fuchs looked puzzled, peered through his granny glasses at Ollie's sempiternal flickering console, and said, "The Haggadah, the Passover Story to which you refer, is not literal, it's homiletic. Yes, that's it: the exigesis of the Haggadah, since the eleventh century, has produced commentaries that are mostly homiletic, although sometimes mystical, in character."
"Did you understand that, Pinkus?" I asked.
"Nope."
"Me neither. What do you mean, Rabbi?"
"Don't take it literally. It is myth. God doesn't work that way anymore. These deaths have to do with physiological fact, not with the whims of Deity. Body, not soul is what's dying here."
 
I know thread was started ages ago, but for those of you who find it while searching google for Christian residency programs like I did, here's what I eventually found:

CMDA has a list of Christian programs. You have to be a member, so first sign up if you aren't a member (it's free for students). Then log in, and once you've done so, go to http://www.cmda.org/WCM/CMDA/Navigation/Membership/MemberCommunities/ResidentCommunity/FamilyPracticeResidencyPrograms/Family_Practice_Resi.aspx for the list. This list is just Family Practice, but if you go to http://www.cmda.org/wcm/CMDA/Navigation/Membership/MemberCommunities/ResidentCommunity/Resident_Community.aspx there are links to info about specific OB/GYN, Psych, and Med/Peds residencies too.

Hope that helps.
 
I know several physicians who went through a Christian residency and they really enjoyed the experience. My wife and I are both Christians and we have gone on medical mission trips. Although I no longer practice medicine, she works as a primary care provider with another Christian physician in a private practice setting. They offer to pray with patients. Many patients (even the non-religious ones) report that they would accept prayer from a physician.

The unfortunate reality is that the term "Christianity" is often misunderstood and/or misrepresented in this country because so many people and organizations abuse or misuse that label. For example, many politicians claim to be "Christians" when they really aren't.
 
Other, more high-profile examples:

Barnes-JEWISH-Hospital (Washington University)
Beth-Israel-DEACONESS (Harvard)
METHODIST Hospital (Indiana University)
New York PRESBYTERIAN (Columbia University)
Wake Forest University BAPTIST Medical Center (Wake)

I actually did my sub-I at methodist in Indianapolis and aside from a morning semi-non-denominational prayer over the PA system there was nothing more "christian" about it than my other teaching hospitals, at least from a provider perspective.

One of my undergrad majors was religious studies and I could talk for hours about the intersection of health and religion, but I'll try to stay on topic. Honestly, I think trying to find a specific residency geared toward being a christian is kind of dumb, mainly because it's the overwhelming majority religion and you're going to find a decent number of christian staff at any institution you match to. Try to look for private hospitals that have a background with a religious order or sect, because I think they will be more likely to have the things you are looking for. However, ask around at your interviews and any alums you know from the program that have similar views on faith and spirituality.

I've seen faith religion and spirituality enter the medical arena in both positive and negative ways. I think as long as you do a little asking around to people who have been at some specific programs you're interested in you will be fine.
 
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I actually did my sub-I at methodist in Indianapolis and aside from a morning semi-non-denominational prayer over the PA system there was nothing more "christian" about it than my other teaching hospitals, at least from a provider perspective.

One of my undergrad majors was religious studies and I could talk for hours about the intersection of health and religion, but I'll try to stay on topic. Honestly, I think trying to find a specific residency geared toward being a christian is kind of dumb, mainly because it's the overwhelming majority religion and you're going to find a decent number of christian staff at any institution you match to. Try to look for private hospitals that have a background with a religious order or sect, because I think they will be more likely to have the things you are looking for. However, ask around at your interviews and any alums you know from the program that have similar views on faith and spirituality.

I've seen faith religion and spirituality enter the medical arena in both positive and negative ways. I think as long as you do a little asking around to people who have been at some specific programs you're interested in you will be fine.

You do realize you're responding to a 7 year old thread don't you?
 
I know several physicians who went through a Christian residency and they really enjoyed the experience. My wife and I are both Christians and we have gone on medical mission trips. Although I no longer practice medicine, she works as a primary care provider with another Christian physician in a private practice setting. They offer to pray with patients. Many patients (even the non-religious ones) report that they would accept prayer from a physician.

The unfortunate reality is that the term "Christianity" is often misunderstood and/or misrepresented in this country because so many people and organizations abuse or misuse that label. For example, many politicians claim to be "Christians" when they really aren't.


What if a person of a different faith ends up in a hospital with a "christian residency"? I can't imagine that sort of behavior being reassuring to the patient.

In regards to the OP and his/her question "should I go mingle with other religions?"-- how much more narrow-minded can one make oneself by sealing off yourself from people of all the many different religions in our society? Doctors in particular should learn to work with, not just patients of different faiths, but COLLEAGUES of different faiths (because there are MANY represented in our small world that is medicine), and understand each other. By isolating yourself in a christian residency so as not to, God-forbid, "mingle with people of other religions 😱" you will only be making your prejudice and narrowmindedness worse than it already appears to be.
 
My faith guides my daily life, reminds me to be compassionate and not to judge. I see my quest to become a competent physician as a joint effort my own efforts with God's guidance. I have my moments of humbleness (probably not enough of them) when I realize that the successful difficult intubation of a 24 week gestational infant or the one stick central line in the frail 74 year old who's spitfire personalilty reminds me of my own grandmother are merely God's work through my hands. So that is my faith; we all have our own story.

😍

This is how i try to live and practice as well. I feel that we are so fortunate to have the opportunity as doctors to witness so many miracles in our line of work, and to experience being tools in God's hands for other people.
 
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