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Civil disobedience arrest?
Started by quadomatic
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Care to elaborate?
Anything that labels you less than an ideal candidate is harmful to your application. There are to many stellar applications that it becomes very difficult to still stand out when you are redflagged to begin with, even if it is something extremely insignificant or something that has been disproven. I would advise you to elaborate and to also search for some similar posts that LizzyM has responded to. She always provides very good information in regards to dealing with these sorts of issues.
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I would rather not, merely because I don't want to invite discussions on the "worthiness of the cause". I'm dealing with a moral quandary, because the only reason I haven't been willing to get arrested is because of med school applications, and I now feel like I'm allowing this process to make decisions for me, despite my values.
This probably won't stop anyone, but I would ask that any potential responders refrain from arguing that "well-run protests" don't result in people getting arrested. Non-violent, organized civil-disobedience can and often does result in arrest.
Are you the 99%?
Just to be clear: In your OP, you only talk about being arrested for civil disobedience.
Most med schools could care less if you've been arrested for something; you are only asked to disclose misdemeanor and felony convictions on your primary application (a few schools will ask for more detailed information such as arrests on the secondary, but that is not the norm)
A website I found contained the following info for planning your civil disobedience:
Of course, such information will vary by jurisdiction (usually state law, I'm guessing) so you would want to check out the local laws prior to doing it. You don't want a felony, plain and simple. You also don't want a misdemeanor either if you can avoid it.
If you seriously plan on applying to medical school, avoid any red flags like the plague, and having to mark "Yes" to either a felony or misdemeanor conviction is a red flag
Yes, but there're small red flags and big ones. How much of a red flag is "just about failing a class" vs. a minor arrest? Will the arrest show up on all your records?
That was my thought as well.
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If you are asking now, there is no need to expound; I'm not sure why anyone is trying to get you to give detail that is not needed.
The question is: is it worth it to you?
If your convictions are worth the price, and you can explain them I personally think you will be fine.
If you are involved because this is the first incident of public civil outrage in your lifetime; then you will look like you got caught up in the moment and could hurt you.
As has been pointed out, being arrested is not a big deal as long as you aren't convicted. Most of the time you would be booked, released w/o bail and if you can show you didn't do anything drastic likely get the charges dropped.
I would suggest you do some reading on how to act when you are arrested so you make sure you don't run afoul of accusations of resisting arrest.
Ultimately, do what your heart tells you and deal with the consequences later.
I have worked with at least two medical school faculty members who were arrested for civil disobedience in the 1960s when they were college students. One was jailed for more than a week and was on parole while in college; the other had an outstanding warrant for failure to appear in court that had to be listed on every license application for years (it never prevented getting a license). Both are very highly regarded in their fields and both attend very prestigious undergrad institutions. Both were protesting for causes they believed in and felt strongly about. If I saw an application from someone who did the same, I would not consider it an impediment to medical school.
Maybe, maybe not, but he's definitely protesting for them/us.
OP, it's pretty obvious that you were more than likely involved in the Occupy movement. As someone else said, you more than likely won't have to list arrests (though some secondaries might request that you list ALL law enforcement action against you). Even if you do, if you can explain your position and your reasons for being arrested, I think you'll be fine. Is it a risk? Definitely. But it's not like you were arrested for alcohol or drug use or assault. There are worse things that are more indicative of actual character flaws.
I'm a veteran of civil disobedience (never arrested, but at several since I was a little kid), but I did write one of my secondary essays on it. Wasn't a problem. As Lizzy M. said, those who lived through the 60s probably did it themselves or know someone who did. Just make sure you can defend the disobedience and avoid the next step in protests.
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I would just say that the OP would probably need to be more open about WHAT was he/she was arrested for to the adcoms than he/she is being with us.
If the adcoms ask you what you were arrested for, and the answer is, "Eh... I'd rather not talk about it...", then I'd say the chances of this being overlooked simply because it was "civil disobedience" would become pretty slim. 😉
If the adcoms ask you what you were arrested for, and the answer is, "Eh... I'd rather not talk about it...", then I'd say the chances of this being overlooked simply because it was "civil disobedience" would become pretty slim. 😉
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ohhh lawd!!!
So you're going to go get arrested now that you've asked on SDN? So much fail.
I find the Occupy Wall Streeters hilarious. While you're protesting, they are working, widening the gap, you are fighting against.
I find the Occupy Wall Streeters hilarious. While you're protesting, they are working, widening the gap, you are fighting against.
If the OP is arrested the fall of 2011 in Chicago for civil disobedience (or any other large city in the US) the AdCom's won't need to ask why.
That is like saying someone arrested in the '60s at UCLA has to give details as to why they were sitting on the ground locked arm-in-arm.
The current movement is not near as large or defined, but in the timeframe the OP will be applying it won't have been forgotten either.
Let's try to keep this from devolving into a debate on the merits of the Occupy WallStreet movement.
Well it certainly plays a part. I think the other movements quoted like Civil Rights are far more worthwhile and widely accepted reasons to get arrested.
I mean the OP (as I read it) hasn't been arrested yet but plans to by going to protest.
I seriously would question anyone's judgement of doing something with the intent to commit a crime.
I mean the OP (as I read it) hasn't been arrested yet but plans to by going to protest.
I seriously would question anyone's judgement of doing something with the intent to commit a crime.
What your suggesting is that the adcom will determine whether or not they consider the OP's cause "worthy", and if not, hold it against them. What most others are suggesting (including the single adcom member to respond here) is not that the subjective opinion of a cause's "worthiness" will not be held against an applicant with whom it resonates.
Also, the OP does not "plan" to get arrested, but is concerned about the potential for being arrested. To participate in the protest is to knowingly accept the potential for arrest.
Again, this thread is an interesting opportunity to talk about the admissions process and how certain types of unusual applicant behavior are interpreted, not the merits of various political statements (though that could be a fine topic for another thread).
Her two examples were from faculty members protesting during the 1960s. Looking back those protests were quite notable in history.
I doubt this most recent protest will be anything more than a footnote in history and quite a bit more fringe than in the 1960s hence why I think the cause matters.
That's sort of like saying, "The adcom's won't allow the fact that you are an acknowledged priest in the Church of Satan to affect their decision", but that's not necessarily true. Even if they shouldn't, they can, and someone will.
Or, "The adcom's won't allow your sexuality to affect their decision to admit you." If only, right?
In other words, nobody, not even LizzyM, can speak for every adcom as an absolute, because there are going to be SOME adcom's out there who will have issues with someone protesting, especially since most doctor's aren't in "the 99%", yeah? And if they have such an easy excuse as an arrest on the record to boot that guy out of the process, you don't think they'll jump on it? After all, they don't have to give much more justification than, "the guy was arrested, and none of the other applicants were."
Or, if they really wanted to, they could go after it in the interview and ask why the cause was worth getting arrested for. I'm not so worried about them judging whether or not the cause was worthy; I'm more concerned about the fact that nobody in the protest seems to have a real answer for why OWS is even happening, at least not as far as an objective, and if there is no objective to be reached by getting arrested, then the adcom has no issue logically deciding that the OP's critical thinking skills might be suspect. 🙂
If the OP thinks that this is really a cause worth of risking medical school for, then all power to him. But while we can sit here and debate whether or not the protests are worth risking ARREST for, it's entirely up to the OP as to whether or not it's worth risking MEDICAL SCHOOL for. That's not something any of us can answer for him/her.
But the protests in the 60s were considered fringe at the time, otherwise they wouldn't have been protests. It's rather tough for the "mainstream" or "accepted" opinion/stance on something to conduct civil disobedience. Regardless whether your or pro or anti OWS, it is the most relevant issue of the day.
not sure if serious...
No one gives a damn about a parking ticket unless you refused to pay it. I know UVM asks about speeding tickets, but some speeding tickets can be criminal offenses (e.g misdemeanors). You don't have to report any civil violations because by definition they are not disclosed public records and are sealed (this depends on your jurisdiction of course).
"If they give you ruled paper, write the other way"
-Juan Ramón Jiménez
🙂
-Juan Ramón Jiménez
🙂
Sorry to burst your bubble but most Drs ARE in the 99%.
Per the WSJ to be in the top 1% you need a household income over $506K/yr or significant accumylated wealth.
Very few physicians make over $500k,and thus are still in the 99%.
This opinion might hold water for more liberal-minded campuses- likely less so for more mainstream admission faculty.
^ Did you mean this?
I'm not sure I would want to attend a school that didn't support reasonable action taken to support a cause that one feels is important.
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While yes you are correct about the 1% cutoff, Do you really think people in the top 5% are welcomed with open arms into the movement?
Doctors are definitely public enemy #2 behind investment banker/CEO types.
The point is that people who make over $150K a year probably aren't going to be heavily involved in a movement made up of people angry because of how money is being distributed in this country. There will be some, but again, I personally don't think it's worth risking a bombed med school application in the irrational hope that the doctor interviewing you sympathizes with a poorly-defined protest.
100% serious. I was surprised too. Oh well....it is one of the few schools which hasn't sent me a interview, so maybe it had something to do with it? I'd like to believe that
You can never count on the doctor interviewing you sympathizing with anything. Sometimes they even question your personal motives for entering medicine 🙁
Aren't they supposed to?
Welcome to the punchline of the joke. So good of you to join us.
I took what Morsetlis said as implying more cynicism on the part of the interviewer than normal. My bad.
