Clarification on my interest.

[insaneinthemembrane]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I am interested in all of the following but wanted a more clear picture of all of them.I would like to peruse neurology as a career. At some point I would also like to obtain a Ph.D.I am aware I am in pre-med and getting into medical school should be and is my main focus. I simply wanted a little clarification on information. I spoke with a neurologist and told him my interest and was recommended the following. I did not have time to get a clear description of each however. Other then a brief description I wanted to know are the MD/Ph.D and dual neurology/psychiatry programs woth the time and money.



My interest when it comes to neurology sub-specialties include:
1: Pediatric neurology
2: Behavioral neurology and neuropsychiatry

My interest in Ph.D programs include:
1: Cognitive neuroscience
2: Neuropsychology

 

[tima]

Will take an essay to answer all of ur questions.

 

[VisionaryTics]

Ah, yes, the pre-med with ridiculously specific career goals. Always a classic.

 

[operaman]

Oh my. It's admirable that you have such defined and noble career goals. Part of achieving big long term goals is learning how to break them up into smaller, more manageable pieces and focusing on the pieces as they come. You're asking a lot of great questions, but only 1 or 2 of them are truly relevant to you at this point, depending on your age and where you are academically.

MDPhD programs have the same pro and con: you have to do a PhD. If you want a PhD, this is a pro; if not, this is a con. Other pro is that they are usually free tuition + a stipend, but you're schooling will be 8 years or more. Many of your fellow M1s will be attendings by the time you graduate.

Personally, I would put all the other questions and goals on the back burner and focus on the most important ones for you:

1) Take the necessary pre-med coursework. Get As. Anything that isn't an A is a step away from medicine.
2) Crush the MCAT (easier said than done)
3) Finish your undergraduate degree
4) Get involved with research as undergrad, start going to meetings, getting authorship on papers. You'll need this for MD/PhD apps.
5) ****Decide whether you want to be strictly research (PhD), strictly clinical seeing/treating patients (MD), or both (MD/PhD)***
[note: you can do high level research with only the MD, but at this stage the above is probably a simpler way to look at it]
6) Apply to medical schools, including both MD and MD/PhD if that still suits your plans
7) Get accepted at AYCU (Anywhere You Can University)
8) Go there
9) Be awesome
10) Find mentors at AYCU and discuss the rest of your original questions with them when the time is right to make those decisions.

Honestly, all of your other questions won't matter unless you get accepted to med school. That's your first and biggest hurdle, so focus all your energy on that. The other things are fun to think about, but don't lose focus on what's most important. Good luck!

 

[FalconSlice]

There a a few knows .
1: I would like to achieve an MD and Ph.D

This is not a "know" for you: you have obviously not researched it or looked into it any further than can be seen from your post, and you cannot make an informed decision right now. The first step is for you to read about it and the different types of MD/PhD programs as well as straight MD programs and the true differences between the two (no-not just the extra degree but its purpose, what it means for your future, how it fits with your goals, etc.).

Do this first step, then apply in the program(s) that you decide. As for your "specialty," you're a premed so you have no clue what any specialty actually entails in terms of being a physician (don't worry nobody has that much of an informed idea until about the third year of med school---and even then some people have trouble figuring this out).

Also, saying you want your "MD to be in neurology" makes you seem naive and misinformed: The diction, for one, and your lack of knowledge about the process of becoming a practicing physician, in general.

Ah, yes, the pre-med with ridiculously specific career goals. Always a classic.

It certainly is

 

[Kahreek]

pediatric neurology!?!!? is that even a thing?

 

[insaneinthemembrane]

https://www.aan.com/uploadedFiles/W.../3.PDFs_of_all_Position_Statements/define.pdf

 

[FalconSlice]

I am interested in all of the following but wanted a more clear picture of all of them.I would like to peruse neurology as a career. At some point I would also like to obtain a Ph.D.I am aware I am in pre-med and getting into medical school should be and is my main focus. I simply wanted a little clarification on information. I spoke with a neurologist and told him my interest and was recommended the following. I did not have time to get a clear description of each however. Other then a brief description I wanted to know are the MD/Ph.D and dual neurology/psychiatry programs woth the time and money.



My interest when it comes to neurology sub-specialties include:
1: Pediatric neurology
2: Behavioral neurology and neuropsychiatry

My interest in Ph.D programs include:
1: Cognitive neuroscience
2: Neuropsychology

You editing your entire post and thread title is pointless as you are saying the same thing as before. We didn't need a clarification.

Everything I said in my previous post still stands. The most useful thing you can do now is to use the SEARCH function on sdn and find your answers about what the MD/PhD programs actually involve (and you better have a damn good reason for wanting to do one).

Also, I just get the hunch that you like saying big words and want to have many letters after your name---I am not saying that this is necessarily you---but that is the impression I get. Like I said before, you do not have a true perspective of knowing what it is like to be a neurologist. Therefore, thinking about subspecialties is pointless especially at your level (unless you like to day dream of introducing yourself as "Dr. so-and-so and I am a pediatric neurologist focusing on neuropsychology and cognitive neuroscience" even if you have no idea what any of that actually means).

Things to do for you:
1. Research and actually UNDERSTAND what an MD/PhD is and if you really should do it, what are the requirements, etc. (do you have clinical experience?, do you have significant research experience?, how have you decided that the dual-degree program is actually for you? Why not do a straight MD and train in a lab later?, etc.)--- these are all important questions which you need to know, and no one can answer them for you.

2. Explore your answers to the above questions over time (if you have any) using personal experiences, mentor relationships and really thinking about your future.


(Also, what "cost" for MD/PhD programs? A lot of MD/PhD programs are fully or partially funded (do you know by who for a specific program?)---you need to do a lot of research and reading. Again, use the SEARCH function here on sdn, visit AAMC website, read mission statements for MSTP and MD/PhD programs, etc.)

 

[Ismet]

pediatric neurology!?!!? is that even a thing?

Technically it's Child Neurology. Mostly saw kids with epilepsy when I was on it.

 

[PL198]

Ah, yes, the pre-med with ridiculously specific career goals. Always a classic.

there's an inverse relationship between current stage : goal specificity
Theres a HS kid who has decided he wants to do hopkins neurosurg residency and has a specific hospital where he wants to be an attending at.
I'm just like " crap get me out of this hell-hole" and literally know 0 about any specific programs.

 

[URHere]

MD/PhD programs are intended for people who want to be physician scientists. Physician scientists prioritize research, and although many will see patients in the clinic or hospital, they generally spend 80% of their time on lab work writing papers, grants, etc and far less time in the clinical world.

It's great that you want a PhD...but that doesn't mean anything until you get involved with research for enough years to understand the career path. You'll also need to meet and talk to physician scientists before you'll know if the MD/PhD path is right for you.

As for combined residency programs, you pick them once you've gone through medical school and realized that you want to train in two fields. Realistically, most people will ultimately choose one field or the other, and combined programs require more time overall. It's not something you plan as a pre-med.

For what it's worth, I'm saying all this as a MD/PhD student applying to a med/peds residency next year. I've been in school for a long time. It feels long and I hate the idea of adding extra time for a combined program, but I'm doing it because I can't imagine doing anything else.

 

[PL198]

I still say 99 % of pre-med career desires are based off salary/prestige. Crap I'm two years in and I don't know the specificities of what each service does or their individual nuances.

 

[FalconSlice]

there's an inverse relationship between current stage : goal specificity
Theres a HS kid who has decided he wants to do hopkins neurosurg residency and has a specific hospital where he wants to be an attending at.
I'm just like " crap get me out of this hell-hole" and literally know 0 about any specific programs.

I still say 99 % of pre-med career desires are based off salary/prestige. Crap I'm two years in and I don't know the specificities of what each service does or their individual nuances.

The above sum up this thread rather well, and, on that note, bye.

 

[insaneinthemembrane]

You editing your entire post and thread title is pointless as you are saying the same thing as before. We didn't need a clarification.

Everything I said in my previous post still stands. The most useful thing you can do now is to use the SEARCH function on sdn and find your answers about what the MD/PhD programs actually involve (and you better have a damn good reason for wanting to do one).

Also, I just get the hunch that you like saying big words and want to have many letters after your name---I am not saying that this is necessarily you---but that is the impression I get. Like I said before, you do not have a true perspective of knowing what it is like to be a neurologist. Therefore, thinking about subspecialties is pointless especially at your level (unless you like to day dream of introducing yourself as "Dr. so-and-so and I am a pediatric neurologist focusing on neuropsychology and cognitive neuroscience" even if you have no idea what any of that actually means).

Things to do for you:
1. Research and actually UNDERSTAND what an MD/PhD is and if you really should do it, what are the requirements, etc. (do you have clinical experience?, do you have significant research experience?, how have you decided that the dual-degree program is actually for you? Why not do a straight MD and train in a lab later?, etc.)--- these are all important questions which you need to know, and no one can answer them for you.

2. Explore your answers to the above questions over time (if you have any) using personal experiences, mentor relationships and really thinking about your future.


(Also, what "cost" for MD/PhD programs? A lot of MD/PhD programs are fully or partially funded (do you know by who for a specific program?)---you need to do a lot of research and reading. Again, use the SEARCH function here on sdn, visit AAMC website, read mission statements for MSTP and MD/PhD programs, etc.)

I am going to assume your intention was instruction and not attempting to passive aggressively imply that I am pompous. I changed my thread because I realized my questions were to broad. I realize I have no direct experience in neurology but, until you become a neurologist who has practiced for several years who does. My goal is simply backwards planning. Its how I operate. I realize very clearly what I lack. I have researched and fully understand what an MD/Phd program is and could even tell you the few colleges that offer a specific neurology MD/Phd. I appreciate the advice on the search tools I had not heard of one of the sources you gave. My main question originally was within my interest what can I pursue to get the best understanding of the subject. That has been my ultimate goal. I am passionate about what I want to do and new to the world of medicine. I don't think it was to much to ask for more information.

 

[VisionaryTics]

I realize I have no direct experience in neurology but, until you become a neurologist who has practiced for several years who does.

Medical students who have rotated through the neurology service.

My goal is simply backwards planning. Its how I operate. I realize very clearly what I lack. I have researched and fully understand what an MD/Phd program is and could even tell you the few colleges that offer a specific neurology MD/Phd.

You don't get an MD/PhD in neurology. You get an MD, which is a broad degree with no specific focus. In the middle, you get a PhD, which is in a basic science (neuroscience, biology, etc), not something like neurology, which is a clinical science.

 

[Kahreek]

Technically it's Child Neurology. Mostly saw kids with epilepsy when I was on it.

I thought so
Kids these days are very choosy

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving to Pre Allo...

why am I doing this between sets on NYE? LOL...

 

[Ismet]

I am going to assume your intention was instruction and not attempting to passive aggressively imply that I am pompous. I changed my thread because I realized my questions were to broad. I realize I have no direct experience in neurology but, until you become a neurologist who has practiced for several years who does. My goal is simply backwards planning. Its how I operate. I realize very clearly what I lack. I have researched and fully understand what an MD/Phd program is and could even tell you the few colleges that offer a specific neurology MD/Phd. I appreciate the advice on the search tools I had not heard of one of the sources you gave. My main question originally was within my interest what can I pursue to get the best understanding of the subject. That has been my ultimate goal. I am passionate about what I want to do and new to the world of medicine. I don't think it was to much to ask for more information.

Your MD will not be in neurology. Your PhD could be in neuroscience.

Your RESIDENCY is where you train to become certified in neurology.

Also, you have direct experience in neuro as medical student, as it is a required rotation. Plus you can do additional electives in the field.

 

[Hermione L Knope MD. Ph.D]

@insaneinthemembrane

It's good to have goals early on in the process even if you don't fully understand how to do it or what all is required right now. I was in your shoes several years ago and will be attending an MD-PhD program in the fall. I also intend on a PhD in neuroscience and I could see myself doing neurology or psych (of course I realize this could change). Don't let other people discourage you from having early plans, it may sound silly to them, but it really helped me get where I am today. PM me if you have specific questions in the future.

 

[LizzyM]

I would rearrange the order of operaman's excellent list and made an addition:

4) Get involved with research as undergrad, start going to research team meetings, get authorship on papers. You'll need this for MD/PhD apps.
1) Take the necessary pre-med coursework. Get As. Anything that isn't an A is a step away from medicine.
1.5) Shadow clinicians in several specialty areas as well as primary care and do some extracurricular activity that involve helping people in need face-to-face.
2) Crush the MCAT (easier said than done)
5) ****Decide whether you want to be strictly research (PhD), strictly clinical seeing/treating patients (MD), or both (MD/PhD)***

6) Apply to medical schools, including both MD and MD/PhD if that still suits your plans
7) Get accepted at AYCMC (Anywhere You Can Medical College)
3) Finish your undergraduate degree
8) Go to AYCMC
9) Be awesome
10) Find mentors at AYCMC and discuss the rest of your original questions with them when the time is right to make those decisions.

If you decide on a MD/PhD you are going to need good grades, good scores, and research experience that demonstrates that you have research skills to build on and a desire to make the laboratory your life's work. Most MD/PhD programs want students who will make careers of laboratory work with one day in the clinic for every 4 days in the lab. If that's how you'd like to divide your time after you've had a chance to spend time in both the lab and the clinic settings, then you might be a good candidate for MD/PhD. If you decide that a 20/80 split between lab and clinic is what you'd prefer, then the lab experience is not for naught and will help pave your way to an MD program. From there you will want to find a residency that will prepare you for a research fellowship in the subspecialty of your choice perhaps with a MS in clinical investigation (or something similar) on the side. (Often paid for by the fellowship program which is sweet.)

 

[operaman]

I would rearrange the order of operaman's excellent list and made an addition:



If you decide on a MD/PhD you are going to need good grades, good scores, and research experience that demonstrates that you have research skills to build on and a desire to make the laboratory your life's work. Most MD/PhD programs want students who will make careers of laboratory work with one day in the clinic for every 4 days in the lab. If that's how you'd like to divide your time after you've had a chance to spend time in both the lab and the clinic settings, then you might be a good candidate for MD/PhD. If you decide that a 20/80 split between lab and clinic is what you'd prefer, then the lab experience is not for naught and will help pave your way to an MD program. From there you will want to find a residency that will prepare you for a research fellowship in the subspecialty of your choice perhaps with a MS in clinical investigation (or something similar) on the side. (Often paid for by the fellowship program which is sweet.)

Beautiful.

OP - LizzyM's advice is pure gold and she is without question one of the most respected and authoritative sources on the forum. There are few, if any, posters who can match her level of inside knowledge and experience with medical school admissions. Do everything on her list and you'll be in good shape for whatever path you ultimately take.