Class of 2016 Acceptances- Statistics

[Rx MPLS]

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but the cropping up of more schools will not fix the shortages in rural areas. I really don't think that making pharmacy more restrictive would change the availability of pharmacists in rural areas, either.

Why? Because graduating students from our current system will, for the most part, be too in debt to practice in those locations. I read an article about a pharmacy in a small town that will soon close down when the current pharmacist retires. The place does ~50 prescriptions per day. That isn't going to pay a salary that will allow a student with pharmacy school debt to pay down their loans in a timely manner, no matter how cheap the cost of living is in rural locations.

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[B1uePi11]

Actually, that's incorrect as well. The effort is to allow students to study and practice as student pharmacists in order to build a rapport within communities. These students are realizing that they don't have to leave their rural communities in order to practice. Granted, practicing within a CVS/WAGS may not be much of an option considering the overhead expense, but being a business owner and establishing independent pharmacies are largely the motivators that keep students coming back to these communities. That said, government subsidizes loan repayment in Lesser Served, Rural areas. Gov't subsidized loan repayment in these rural communities might look pretty appealing once the deferment halo evaporates.

Many states have followed this trend with satellite campuses. Univ of Kansas's main campus is in Lawrence but has a satellite campus in Wichita. The School of Medicine does the same thing with campuses in Wichita and Salina (pop ~48k).

 

[Rx MPLS]

I'm fairly aware of these programs (and was interested myself before I began school and started to see the reality of the situation) but have yet to hear of any students who have qualified for the loan repayment schemes. This may differ by state, but where I live it isn't common to qualify as a pharmacy student (they seem to want primary care more than pharmacy).

 

[B1uePi11]

I'm fairly aware of these programs (and was interested myself before I began school and started to see the reality of the situation) but have yet to hear of any students who have qualified for the loan repayment schemes. This may differ by state, but where I live it isn't common to qualify as a pharmacy student (they seem to want primary care more than pharmacy).

There are several government loan repayment programs. The ones that I have found that cover pharmacists in my state are administered by the State. It doesn't look like pharmacists are encompassed in the federal gov't subsidy programs. However, I know many pharmacists that have taken advantage of those State programs at the pleasure of rural communities.

Nonetheless, these govt subsidies are working. Students are going back to rural communities and the pharmacist shortage in our state is being remedied to some degree. Additionally, the satellite campus(es) are addressing the rural pharmacist problem. At the very least, these two measures are a start and have made an impact.

On the other hand, increasing the admission standards to a level that is ridiculous and decreasing the number of nationwide schools would just exacerbate the rural pharmacist shortage. Fifty pharmacy schools in the U.S. would correspond to a single pharmacy school per state. Imagine one pharmacy school for each of NY, TX, and CA. Unless those states had one pharmacy school that was pumping out >600 pharmacists per class, you would have people dying in droves.

 

[SHC1984]

There are only 53 dental schools in the country and there aren't any problems. A small shortage is a good thing. A surplus of any kind however is NOT a good thing at all even if it's a small surplus.

SHORTAGE? R you kidding me? Is this something you read off an articled that's published in 2000?

What shortage? Where? Please name one city that has a shortage. I can't think of ONE sorry.

If you don't believe me why don't you go read the thread on a STICKY in the pharmacy forum talking about the surplus of pharmacist out there.

Better yet...why don't you go PM user WVU.....he was out of a job for over 1 year...he was looking EVERYWHERE for a job and couldn't find one...he just recently found a job after over 1 year of unemployement. If there was a shortage he could have found a job easily...he was willing to move anywhere and he couldn't find anything.

Seriously, what have you been reading? Is the article even in the last 5 years? (2000-2005 really don't count now) What shortage? I haven't heard of any shortages since 2008. And that was like the last time I heard someone got a sign on bonus. It's been downhill since 2008.

Please give me one reason why you are in favor of a surplus over a shortage? Of course a shortage is a good thing. Things are only special if it's RARE! How can you not know that?

Being RARE, being a shortage is a great thing...hence why diamonds are so valuble and so loved by many and so expensive and treasured while rocks are not....it's bc diamonds are rare and not everywhere....

Do you want pharmacists to be valuble like diamonds or to be trash like rocks? (I hope I painted a nice enough picture for you to understand....I don't know how else to explain this! lol...)

 

[B1uePi11]

There are only 53 dental schools in the country and there aren't any problems. A small shortage is a good thing. A surplus of any kind however is NOT a good thing at all even if it's a small surplus.

SHORTAGE? R you kidding me? Is this something you read off an articled that's published in 2000?

What shortage? Where? Please name one city that has a shortage. I can't think of ONE sorry.

If you don't believe me why don't you go read the thread on a STICKY in the pharmacy forum talking about the surplus of pharmacist out there.

Better yet...why don't you go PM user WVU.....he was out of a job for over 1 year...he was looking EVERYWHERE for a job and couldn't find one...he just recently found a job after over 1 year of unemployement. If there was a shortage he could have found a job easily...he was willing to move anywhere and he couldn't find anything.

Seriously, what have you been reading? Is the article even in the last 5 years? (2000-2005 really don't count now) What shortage? I haven't heard of any shortages since 2008. And that was like the last time I heard someone got a sign on bonus. It's been downhill since 2008.

Please give me one reason why you are in favor of a surplus over a shortage? Of course a shortage is a good thing. Things are only special if it's RARE! How can you not know that?

Being RARE, being a shortage is a great thing...hence why diamonds are so valuble and so loved by many and so expensive and treasured while rocks are not....it's bc diamonds are rare and not everywhere....

Do you want pharmacists to be valuble like diamonds or to be trash like rocks? (I hope I painted a nice enough picture for you to understand....I don't know how else to explain this! lol...)

Actually, there being 53 dental schools is a huge problem. Because it simply yields fewer dentists whether applicants are qualified or not. Those 53 schools can graduate only so many. The problem with there being such a drastic shortage of service providers when speaking of the healthcare field (as opposed to any other field) is that money is not the only thing at stake. When people don't have access, the state of their health declines.

You don't think this is the case? http://www.kansasdental.com/ The Kansas Dental Project states that only 12 counties of Kansas' 105 counties have enough dentists to satisfy resident needs. That's 11.4%. I know you think that correlates to "optimal demand" for dentists, but 88.6% of Kansas counties have residents who are in danger of not having access to dental care. It doesn't only affect old people either. I understand that you are only worried about six figures and could not care less about people having access to dental care or pharmaceuticals. I'm a fan of six figures too, but when it comes at the detriment of 88.4% of my state, I'd be willing to find a reasonable admission level that could provide more dentists to those rural areas even if it meant a pay cut.

As far as the shortage of pharmacists, it still exists for those willing to move to rural places. I don't know where WVU looked for jobs. I'll assume she/he lives in West Virginia and being nearby a saturated market like the Northeast doesn't help. I don't know much about those markets other than what I read on here. But, if what you say is true and WVU scoured the country for jobs, then I find it hard to believe she/he was out of a job for a year without having unreasonable criteria for said job. If she/he was a retail pharmacist working the day shift, she/he may have to become a clinical pharmacist working the night shift in a rural area to get started again.

You seem befuddled about the pharmacy shortage. But, I can only cite 36 counties in Kansas where a shortage exists and those numbers are only as current as January 2011. Of those 36 counties, 6 counties don't have any pharmacists. The other 30 counties have a single pharmacists. Beyond those numbers, a third of the independent, Kansas pharmacists are 54 years old (now 55), or older. There is a huge shortage here. http://www.khi.org/news/2011/jan/17/will-kansas-able-find-enough-rural-pharmacists/

As previously stated, I suspect the same in many of the states in the Midwest and Northwest.

I know in Nebraska they have 57 counties that the State designates as a "shortage-area". There are four other Nebraska counties where a partial portion of the county has been deemed a "shortage-area". So, 61/93 (65.6%) Nebraska counties are either shortage-areas or partial-shortage areas. But again, those numbers are only current as of December 2010 http://dhhs.ne.gov/publichealth/Documents/State_Shortage_Pharmacist_2010.pdf .

Do you want numbers for Montana, Texas, Idaho, Alaska, Colorado, Wyoming and the Dakotas? Because I imagine there are numbers to support what I say in Arkansas, Utah, Nevada, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and portions of Missouri too.

Name one town where there is a shortage? Manhattan, KS. Columbia, MO. Kearney, NE.
There are several reasons why WVU may have not been able to land a job for a year as a full-time pharmacist and none of them are a nationwide surplus of pharmacists. One reason could be that she/he lives in the Northeast. Another reason was the unwillingness to move to a rural area. Another reason could be (gasp) the unwillingness to try clinical. I can tell you that she/he never looked into the Midwest or Northwest though because she/he would have had a job the day she/he left the last job.

You're analogy with diamonds is ridiculous and does not account for patient health. That analogy solely focuses on your income. Considering the massive omission of patient health within that analogy and how patient health is imperative to this discussion, it doesn't even warrant me addressing it further.

You said, "Please give me one reason why you are in favor of a surplus over a shortage?"
I say that's a False Dichotomy. Never did I say I was pro-surplus. Just because I'm not in favor of a considerable shortage doesn't mean I want a surplus. States should assess the needs of their State in a responsible manner and address the demand accordingly. Reducing the number of pharmacy schools to 50 and raising admission standards to such an inflated level would be irresponsible and would negatively impact communities that are already hurting because of the current pharmacist shortage.

 

[SHC1984]

Fair enough. I never been to a rural area in my life so I might not be aware of those problems. I grew up in Charlotte, NC and now live in Atlanta, GA and when I open the phone book I see a MILE LONG list of dentists and pharmacies.

Every corner I see orthodontist offices, law offices, pharmacies, dental practices....I can literally choose between the thousands of pharmacises and dental offices in the city.

If I live in a rural area with a shortage....then I can always drive an hour or 2 to get to a dentist or pharmacy right? Sure, that isn't very convienent and is a waste of my time...but most people go to the dentist once or twice a year...so driving 2 hrs once a year for the dentist doesn't seem like a HUGE problem in my opinion. Same with pharmacies...just pick up your Rx every 3 months...get a 90 day supply and drive 1 or 2 hours every 3 months to pick up your Rx.

Sure, rural areas might have shortages, but that only means the people have to drive further away to see a dentist or pharmacist...it doesn't mean we must increase the number of schools and pump out more pharmacist!

Being in a rural area means you have to drive 1+ hrs to get to anything! dentist, pharmacies, the mall, civilization (lol), or anything else for that matter. You want to live in a quiet area with very few people it means driving 1+ hrs for the things you need. You CHOOSE to live in the rural area, you want the advantage of quietness and no traffic...so cool, that means you take the disadvantages of driving 1 hour to the dentist and pharmacy. That's all that is.

If someone wants to go to a dentist or a pharmacy it's very easy. ANYONE can do it. Although some people might have to drive further for it that is all. I don't see a huge problem at all with this. I don't think driving 1 or 2 hrs every 3 months to a year will kill anyone. LOL...

 

[B1uePi11]

Fair enough. I never been to a rural area in my life so I might not be aware of those problems....I don't see a huge problem at all with this. I don't think driving 1 or 2 hrs every 3 months to a year will kill anyone. LOL...

Well, a few things. First, the roads in those areas aren't necessarily the best nor are they always paved. You don't want people traveling on those roads any longer than is necessary. Often is the case that these residents are elderly. You're suggesting having a bunch of elderly people make +1hr treks (one-way) cross-state at the very minimum once every 3 months to get meds is an issue that doesn't need to be addressed? Interesting thought. Hahaha. Also, what if these people had diabetes and had to get supplies at a greater frequency than once every 3 months? It's safe to say that insurance companies don't always approve 3-month supplies. In fact, they don't approve 3-month supplies the majority of the time. Thus, the frequency of that +1hr trek becomes more like 12 times per year (if everything goes perfectly and no medication is misplaced or a dosage is changed within a month) for maintenance drugs.

This whole digression has been to prove that limiting the number of pharmacy schools to 50 and increasing the admission standards would likely make the distance those people would have to travel greater and compound the problem we currently have. You stated it is their choice to live in rural areas and you are correct, but that leads into a discussion about the pros and cons of family farming vs large-scale corporate farming. Let's just say, for the long-term benefit of your family, there are families living in rural Kansas that are farming the land and practicing conservation. That discussion/digression is for another thread!

Bottom Line: It's absurd to think your suggestion could be universally implemented to alleviate the metro-surpluses of pharmacists that we have now considering it would have catastrophic ramifications on rural areas. The solution is not to inflate admission standards and scale back the number of schools. The solution is for pharmacists living in metropolitan areas to find work in other locations rather than always complaining about a stupid surplus. I'm sure the same 300 metropolitan pharmacists apply at the same metropolitan WAGS store in the same metropolitan neighborhood for the same job, time and time again. Eventually, 299 resumes get rejected, then they sit on their thumbs complaining about competition. You know how people in rural areas feel when they hear about the complaints from these 299 people? Applying is fine. Getting rejected is fine. Complaining about nationwide surplus is ridiculous.

While I'm on this soap box, one more thing. You know who is hurting right now? People that have truly been out of a job for awhile and who are truly willing to move cross-country and take any job remotely related to their profession. It's the unemployed, non-IT/non-engineer/non-health care people. When you have been long-term unemployed as a pharmacist, that just means you are stubborn and don't want to take a job in a certain town possibly doing clinical for a meager $90k/yr. You know how the non-IT/non-engineer/non-health people feel when they hear pharmacists talk about "how hard it is to find a job?" Insulted. You have no idea how it feels to not be able to find a job in your profession.

 

[lavenderhearts]

I would like to know how the people with high PCAT scores studied for the PCAT?

 

[SHC1984]

I would like to know how the people with high PCAT scores studied for the PCAT?

Just read the kaplan book and take the practice exams. I did that for both the PCAT and DAT and scored high on both. Make sure to time yourself on the exams of course.

 

[SHC1984]

Well, a few things. First, the roads in those areas aren't necessarily the best nor are they always paved. You don't want people traveling on those roads any longer than is necessary. Often is the case that these residents are elderly. You're suggesting having a bunch of elderly people make +1hr treks (one-way) cross-state at the very minimum once every 3 months to get meds is an issue that doesn't need to be addressed? Interesting thought. Hahaha. Also, what if these people had diabetes and had to get supplies at a greater frequency than once every 3 months? It's safe to say that insurance companies don't always approve 3-month supplies. In fact, they don't approve 3-month supplies the majority of the time. Thus, the frequency of that +1hr trek becomes more like 12 times per year (if everything goes perfectly and no medication is misplaced or a dosage is changed within a month) for maintenance drugs.

This whole digression has been to prove that limiting the number of pharmacy schools to 50 and increasing the admission standards would likely make the distance those people would have to travel greater and compound the problem we currently have. You stated it is their choice to live in rural areas and you are correct, but that leads into a discussion about the pros and cons of family farming vs large-scale corporate farming. Let's just say, for the long-term benefit of your family, there are families living in rural Kansas that are farming the land and practicing conservation. That discussion/digression is for another thread!

Bottom Line: It's absurd to think your suggestion could be universally implemented to alleviate the metro-surpluses of pharmacists that we have now considering it would have catastrophic ramifications on rural areas. The solution is not to inflate admission standards and scale back the number of schools. The solution is for pharmacists living in metropolitan areas to find work in other locations rather than always complaining about a stupid surplus. I'm sure the same 300 metropolitan pharmacists apply at the same metropolitan WAGS store in the same metropolitan neighborhood for the same job, time and time again. Eventually, 299 resumes get rejected, then they sit on their thumbs complaining about competition. You know how people in rural areas feel when they hear about the complaints from these 299 people? Applying is fine. Getting rejected is fine. Complaining about nationwide surplus is ridiculous.

While I'm on this soap box, one more thing. You know who is hurting right now? People that have truly been out of a job for awhile and who are truly willing to move cross-country and take any job remotely related to their profession. It's the unemployed, non-IT/non-engineer/non-health care people. When you have been long-term unemployed as a pharmacist, that just means you are stubborn and don't want to take a job in a certain town possibly doing clinical for a meager $90k/yr. You know how the non-IT/non-engineer/non-health people feel when they hear pharmacists talk about "how hard it is to find a job?" Insulted. You have no idea how it feels to not be able to find a job in your profession.

1) They can always use a mail order pharmacy if they don't want to drive. If you want something bad enough you will get it. There is no such thing as something being too far or "too hard to get" so it's impossible for me to get it. The beach is 5 hrs away from my house...so that means it's impossible for me to go huh? NO WAY. I go on a regular basis b/c I want to...I will drive or fly just to go there b/c I love it. SO you are telling me rural folks can't make it to a pharmacy b/c it's a few hrs away? hahahaha...I don't believe it. That's just an excuse..if someone want something BAD ENOUGH they will get it. If being too far makes it impossible...then it would techinically be impossible for me to ever go to the beach as it is almost 6 hrs away from me but I go on a regular basis. Plus like I added before...they always had the luxury of using a mail order pharmacy and have NO hassle either...so I still don't see the problem of 50 pharmacy schools.

2) Living in rural areas pretty much means you have to drive far for everything right? How else do they get groceries, clothes, shoes etc. By driving FAR right? I lived in Rome, GA last summer to do my summer internship and it was RURAL to me. The city had a populartion of 37,000 only. I had to drive 2 hrs just to go to Atlanta so I can go to a mall that actually had stores that I would shop in. LOL... My point is rural folks should be use to driving far for things right?

3) No one in their right minds would move to rural areas...it's too inconvienent...there is nothing there at all. I lived in Rome for 2 months and I almost died...I don't know how anyone can stand it. If you want children you better live in the city...rural areas have the crappest school systems. If you want your child to attend the best private schools than the city is the way to go. I rather die than move to a rural area.

4) Pharmacy is becoming like all the other jobs. In the other thread I have other people reporting that the class of 2012 have an umemployment rate of 15% to 20%. That is NOT counting the people in residencies who are techincally unemployed too. So pharmacy NOW has an unemployment rate of 20%. So not too different than most other jobs. Yes, you are right...10 year ago pharmacist did have it all...now? NO way. Pharmacy is no better than law or any other career now. Yes, 10 years ago you would be right in that pharmacy had it better...now it's much WORST...it has the same unemployment rate but everyone else has NO student loans but pharmacy students do! Good trade huh?

5) Yes, other jobs have it bad too...of course. But other jobs didn't require 8 years of college after high school and other jobs do not require any student loans. If I didn't have to go to college at all and took out ZERO student loans then of course I would care much less. Most people graduate undergrad with no student loans anyways...so even if you got a bachelors degree with no loans then you would most likely care LESS compare to a pharmacy student with 100K in debt! If I didn't have 80K from pharmacy school I would careless myself.

 

[hye345]

1) They can always use a mail order pharmacy if they don't want to drive. If you want something bad enough you will get it. There is no such thing as something being too far or "too hard to get" so it's impossible for me to get it. The beach is 5 hrs away from my house...so that means it's impossible for me to go huh? NO WAY. I go on a regular basis b/c I want to...I will drive or fly just to go there b/c I love it. SO you are telling me rural folks can't make it to a pharmacy b/c it's a few hrs away? hahahaha...I don't believe it. That's just an excuse..if someone want something BAD ENOUGH they will get it. If being too far makes it impossible...then it would techinically be impossible for me to ever go to the beach as it is almost 6 hrs away from me but I go on a regular basis. Plus like I added before...they always had the luxury of using a mail order pharmacy and have NO hassle either...so I still don't see the problem of 50 pharmacy schools.

2) Living in rural areas pretty much means you have to drive far for everything right? How else do they get groceries, clothes, shoes etc. By driving FAR right? I lived in Rome, GA last summer to do my summer internship and it was RURAL to me. The city had a populartion of 37,000 only. I had to drive 2 hrs just to go to Atlanta so I can go to a mall that actually had stores that I would shop in. LOL... My point is rural folks should be use to driving far for things right?

3) No one in their right minds would move to rural areas...it's too inconvienent...there is nothing there at all. I lived in Rome for 2 months and I almost died...I don't know how anyone can stand it. If you want children you better live in the city...rural areas have the crappest school systems. If you want your child to attend the best private schools than the city is the way to go. I rather die than move to a rural area.

4) Pharmacy is becoming like all the other jobs. In the other thread I have other people reporting that the class of 2012 have an umemployment rate of 15% to 20%. That is NOT counting the people in residencies who are techincally unemployed too. So pharmacy NOW has an unemployment rate of 20%. So not too different than most other jobs. Yes, you are right...10 year ago pharmacist did have it all...now? NO way. Pharmacy is no better than law or any other career now. Yes, 10 years ago you would be right in that pharmacy had it better...now it's much WORST...it has the same unemployment rate but everyone else has NO student loans but pharmacy students do! Good trade huh?

5) Yes, other jobs have it bad too...of course. But other jobs didn't require 8 years of college after high school and other jobs do not require any student loans. If I didn't have to go to college at all and took out ZERO student loans then of course I would care much less. Most people graduate undergrad with no student loans anyways...so even if you got a bachelors degree with no loans then you would most likely care LESS compare to a pharmacy student with 100K in debt! If I didn't have 80K from pharmacy school I would careless myself.

Let's see...

Your first point implies that people should/will travel great distances and undergo inconveniences to acquire the items that they want/need. Your second point applies this concept directly to those who live in a rural environment, and you cite yourself as an example. No argument so far.

Your third point however, says that no one in their right mind (AKA you) would want to live in a rural area, as it is too... inconvenient.

This seems like a contradiction: if group A (rural people) should be expected to compromise in an area of their lives (having to drive far) to achieve a goal (acquiring items that they want/need), then shouldn't group B (pharmacists) be expected to sacrifice (by moving to outside of a major city) in order to achieve a goal (getting a job to pay off loans)? Otherwise, you are holding yourself to a higher standard.

You could argue that people have a choice as to where they live, and that its their fault for living in the outskirts of society (though personally, a town of 37,000 hardly qualifies as the 'boonies' but that's a topic for another day). But, I could just as easily argue that no one held a gun to your head and made you chose a career that is saturated in major cities.

 

[B1uePi11]

3) No one in their right minds would move to rural areas...it's too inconvienent...there is nothing there at all. I lived in Rome for 2 months and I almost died...I don't know how anyone can stand it. If you want children you better live in the city...rural areas have the crappest school systems. If you want your child to attend the best private schools than the city is the way to go. I rather die than move to a rural area.

You're absolutely right. You won. I guess I was being delusional considering I came from one of the crappest school systems in America. Good Day

 

[SHC1984]

You're absolutely right. You won. I guess I was being delusional considering I came from one of the crappest school systems in America. Good Day

Finding a typo b/c I don't proof read typing 70 words a minute still makes you wrong and me right!

Rural=redneck=crappy I think everyone should know that by now.

 

[rxlea]

Finding a typo b/c I don't proof read typing 70 words a minute still makes you wrong and me right!

Rural=redneck=crappy I think everyone should know that by now.

Saving this for posterity.

 

[rxlea]

SHC, not all rural people are rednecks. Do you consider native americans "redneck"? That's just one example.

 

[SHC1984]

This seems like a contradiction: if group A (rural people) should be expected to compromise in an area of their lives (having to drive far) to achieve a goal (acquiring items that they want/need), then shouldn't group B (pharmacists) be expected to sacrifice (by moving to outside of a major city) in order to achieve a goal (getting a job to pay off loans)? Otherwise, you are holding yourself to a higher standard.

You could argue that people have a choice as to where they live, and that its their fault for living in the outskirts of society (though personally, a town of 37,000 hardly qualifies as the 'boonies' but that's a topic for another day). But, I could just as easily argue that no one held a gun to your head and made you chose a career that is saturated in major cities.

I think me getting a PharmD and suffering through school while everyone else was partying should allow me to put myself at a higher standard. I only go thru inconviences when it's for something I love like the beach for example. LOL...but living in a rural area for longer than 2 months will be worst than dying. Not sure if I can suffer through that. And I did compromise...I lived in a rural area for 2 months b/c I couldn't find an internship in Atlanta...none of them will hire me for just the summer time.

When I pick this career it was still pretty hot. I went into it in 2008/2009 when it was still a good career. However, schools started opening up when they really shouldn't be and admission standards started to decrease dramatically etc. which lead to a saturation in all nice places to live. I had no idea this was going to happen 4 years ago.

Back to my original point in an ideal world the admission standards would be high and only the best would get in and pharmacists (being that they work the hardest) would never have to compromise or be inconvienced at all. I went into pharmacy b/c I don't like to compromise and the reason why I have to is b/c money hungry schools want to open up and accept any idiot with a pulse. This is a problem and most people know it.

 

[B1uePi11]

"Yes, 10 years ago you would be right in that pharmacy had it better...now it's much WORST...it has the same unemployment rate but everyone else has NO student loans but pharmacy students do!"

"I only go thru inconviences when it's for something I love like the beach for example. LOL...but living in a rural area for longer than 2 months will be worst than dying."

Initially, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought you may have made the WORST error possible when constructing a retort based on poor rural education as a premise. The reason for my forgiveness was because I have heard much WORSE said about rural communities. Coincidentally, matters only got WORSE when your grammar continued to decline. I have never claimed urban schools were the WORST in the United States, but you're not doing them any favors.

 

[hye345]

I think me getting a PharmD and suffering through school while everyone else was partying should allow me to put myself at a higher standard. I only go thru inconviences when it's for something I love like the beach for example. LOL...but living in a rural area for longer than 2 months will be worst than dying. Not sure if I can suffer through that. And I did compromise...I lived in a rural area for 2 months b/c I couldn't find an internship in Atlanta...none of them will hire me for just the summer time.

When I pick this career it was still pretty hot. I went into it in 2008/2009 when it was still a good career. However, schools started opening up when they really shouldn't be and admission standards started to decrease dramatically etc. which lead to a saturation in all nice places to live. I had no idea this was going to happen 4 years ago.

Back to my original point in an ideal world the admission standards would be high and only the best would get in and pharmacists (being that they work the hardest) would never have to compromise or be inconvienced at all. I went into pharmacy b/c I don't like to compromise and the reason why I have to is b/c money hungry schools want to open up and accept any idiot with a pulse. This is a problem and most people know it.

And here I thought I lived in an idealistic bubble...

If the length and/or difficulty of training for a field was a perfect indication of how "convenient" your life will be afterwards (in salary, professional mobility, quality of life, etc...), then those who get a PhD in the humanities deserve many times more than they currently get.

 

[SHC1984]

"Yes, 10 years ago you would be right in that pharmacy had it better...now it's much WORST...it has the same unemployment rate but everyone else has NO student loans but pharmacy students do!"

"I only go thru inconviences when it's for something I love like the beach for example. LOL...but living in a rural area for longer than 2 months will be worst than dying."

Initially, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and thought you may have made the WORST error possible when constructing a retort based on poor rural education as a premise. The reason for my forgiveness was because I have heard much WORSE said about rural communities. Coincidentally, matters only got WORSE when your grammar continued to decline. I have never claimed urban schools were the WORST in the United States, but you're not doing them any favors.

English is my second language. I speak 4 languages. What's your excuse for your stupidity? Besides being a redneck from the woods with NO education.

 

[B1uePi11]

Four languages? Dang! I bet you can throw a football over those mountains too..

 

[SHC1984]

And here I thought I lived in an idealistic bubble...

If the length and/or difficulty of training for a field was a perfect indication of how "convenient" your life will be afterwards (in salary, professional mobility, quality of life, etc...), then those who get a PhD in the humanities deserve many times more than they currently get.

Fair enough...no one ask me to do pharmacy (well, actually my parents force me to do it LOL..) but anyways...whatever. I'll look on the bright side. I only owe 80K when I get out...so I'll just work hard and get that paid off ASAP and get the hell out of pharmacy.

There is no reason for me to be so annoyed...afterall it's just a job. I can find something I love much more and if there are no pharmacy jobs left...OH well. I can find something else much better to do. It's not a big deal...It's not life or death. It's a job and if there are none left then I'll just do something else. I will survive.

Even though I wish I did NOT owe any money or spent years of my life in schools when I could be partying....other than those things I can't think of any other reason for me to be upset that there are no more pharmacy jobs left. It's really no big deal at the end.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

English is my second language. I speak 4 languages. What's your excuse for your stupidity? Besides being a redneck from the woods with NO education.

Inability to communicate well in English will hold you back, unfortunately. Particularly in written communication. When I'm hiring for my company, it's one of the most important qualities I consider, because we're communicating directly with providers and bad spelling/grammar/excessive errors are unprofessional and inappropriate. They hurt our credibility.

Calling people stupid isn't nice.

 

[SHC1984]

Inability to communicate well in English will hold you back, unfortunately. Particularly in written communication. When I'm hiring for my company, it's one of the most important qualities I consider, because we're communicating directly with providers and bad spelling/grammar/excessive errors are unprofessional and inappropriate. They hurt our credibility.

Calling people stupid isn't nice.

For important things that are job related or school related etc. I do take the extra time out to prove read and look up spelling and grammar etc. I had a kick ass PS for pharmacy school and dental school etc. for example.

I do admit that English is my weakness. If I don't read everything and double check and spend a lot of time on this etc...I will have errors in my papers. But I do double check and take extra time out for important documents etc.

That person is pretty messed up in the head....

First of all he felt the need to comment on my opinion of pharmacy schools accepting too many unqualified students...that's cool.

He made comments. I made my comments...then he made his and I made mine again....everything is pharmacy related and on TOPIC..but out of no where he decided that he wants to comment on my English...OKAY? I guess he doesn't have anything to add to my debate so he figured insulting my English and changing the subject will make him look better? Okay...So I guess the next time I can't come up with anything relevant for a debate I should try to insult someone's english, looks, clothes, or family member to change the subject?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

For important things that are job related or school related etc. I do take the extra time out to prove read and look up spelling and grammar etc. I had a kick ass PS for pharmacy school and dental school etc. for example.

I do admit that English is my weakness. If I don't read everything and double check and spend a lot of time on this etc...I will have errors in my papers. But I do double check and take extra time out for important documents etc.

That person is pretty messed up in the head....

First of all he felt the need to comment on my opinion of pharmacy schools accepting too many unqualified students...that's cool.

He made comments. I made my comments...then he made his and I made mine again....everything is pharmacy related and on TOPIC..but out of no where he decided that he wants to comment on my English...OKAY? I guess he doesn't have anything to add to my debate so he figured insulting my English and changing the subject will make him look better? Okay...So I guess the next time I can't come up with anything relevant for a debate I should try to insult someone's english, looks, clothes, or family member to change the subject?

No, I would say you should try to act like a mature adult and not get involved in name calling. That's sincere advice. You're always going to encounter people in life who behave badly. Does behaving badly yourself make you better than them?

As to the English... I'm in a business where every bit of written communication is important. And it's important to work quickly. It slows me down when I have to go back and correct someone's work. So I need employees who can write well, get work done quickly and correctly. That way, it takes me less time to review their work, we get more work done and make more money.

 

[SHC1984]

No, I would say you should try to act like a mature adult and not get involved in name calling. That's sincere advice. You're always going to encounter people in life who behave badly. Does behaving badly yourself make you better than them?

As to the English... I'm in a business where every bit of written communication is important. And it's important to work quickly. It slows me down when I have to go back and correct someone's work. So I need employees who can write well, get work done quickly and correctly. That way, it takes me less time to review their work, we get more work done and make more money.

It's my HOT temper more than anything else. I am the nicest person, but have the hottest temper and I need to change that.

What kind of pharmacist are you looking to hire? PBM? Where are you located?

Yes, I am a slow reader and writer my weak point...but I am very fast and good a math. Any advice on the English and reading? LOL...

 

[ekimed]

For important things that are job related or school related etc. I do take the extra time out to prove read and look up spelling and grammar etc. I had a kick ass PS for pharmacy school and dental school etc. for example.

I do admit that English is my weakness. If I don't read everything and double check and spend a lot of time on this etc...I will have errors in my papers. But I do double check and take extra time out for important documents etc.

That person is pretty messed up in the head....

First of all he felt the need to comment on my opinion of pharmacy schools accepting too many unqualified students...that's cool.

He made comments. I made my comments...then he made his and I made mine again....everything is pharmacy related and on TOPIC..but out of no where he decided that he wants to comment on my English...OKAY? I guess he doesn't have anything to add to my debate so he figured insulting my English and changing the subject will make him look better? Okay...So I guess the next time I can't come up with anything relevant for a debate I should try to insult someone's english, looks, clothes, or family member to change the subject?

He didn't comment on your English out of no where. I think he made a comment about your English because you made a comment about how education sucks in rural areas...I think he was trying to prove how ironic it is for someone to bash education in these areas in a post littered with incorrect grammar and spelling.

 

[SHC1984]

He didn't comment on your English out of no where. I think he made a comment about your English because you made a comment about how education sucks in rural areas...I think he was trying to prove how ironic it is for someone to bash education in these areas in a post littered with incorrect grammar and spelling.

I didn't mean that as an insult...that's like a Harvard graduate saying I attended the best school in the country. The graduate could techinically tell me he attended a better college than me and I would agree...it's not an insult..it's the truth. Harvard is rank #1 in US news. Education in general are better in the big cities with private schools than they are in the rural area with very little resources. That's a pretty well known fact just like Harvard is a better college than the college I attended for undergrad....I don't see how that is offensive. I have had UNC pharmacy students claim to me that their education is superior over other pharmacy schools...again most likely true...UNC is ranked #2 in the country...cool beans...What's so offensive about that? I don't get it....it's a fact.

 

[ekimed]

I didn't mean that as an insult...that's like a Harvard graduate saying I attended the best school in the country. The graduate could techinically tell me he attended a better college than me and I would agree...it's not an insult..it's the truth. Harvard is rank #1 in US news. Education in general are better in the big cities with private schools than they are in the rural area with very little resources. That's a pretty well known fact just like Harvard is a better college than the college I attended for undergrad....I don't see how that is offensive. I have had UNC pharmacy students claim to me that their education is superior over other pharmacy schools...again most likely true...UNC is ranked #2 in the country...cool beans...What's so offensive about that? I don't get it....it's a fact.

Your words --> "redneck=rural=crappy" How is this a fact? Sounds more like your personal opinion to me. It's one thing to argue that the education system in rural areas need work and it's another to say that its blatantly crappy. The words you use matter...and your word choice was quite poor.

 

[hye345]

I didn't mean that as an insult...that's like a Harvard graduate saying I attended the best school in the country. The graduate could techinically tell me he attended a better college than me and I would agree...it's not an insult..it's the truth. Harvard is rank #1 in US news. Education in general are better in the big cities with private schools than they are in the rural area with very little resources. That's a pretty well known fact just like Harvard is a better college than the college I attended for undergrad....I don't see how that is offensive. I have had UNC pharmacy students claim to me that their education is superior over other pharmacy schools...again most likely true...UNC is ranked #2 in the country...cool beans...What's so offensive about that? I don't get it....it's a fact.

Well, just like how you say its unbearable if you don't live in a big city: Its blatant honesty of opinion at best, and massively uninformed generalization at worst. Either present some hard evidence to back up your claims, or spare us.

 

[B1uePi11]

Well, just like how you say its unbearable if you don't live in a big city: Its blatant honesty of opinion at best, and massively uninformed generalization at worst. Either present some hard evidence to back up your claims, or spare us.

I have evidence to the contrary. But, it's primarily anecdotal and is mainly composed of quotes.

"Education in general are better in the big cities with private schools than they are in the rural area with very little resources."

Forgive me, but the credibility of these school rankings and generalizations touting the high-quality of private school (city) education essentially implodes when you have spokespeople from these schools who can't communicate effectively in proper English?

 

[SHC1984]

Your words --> "redneck=rural=crappy" How is this a fact? Sounds more like your personal opinion to me. It's one thing to argue that the education system in rural areas need work and it's another to say that its blatantly crappy. The words you use matter...and your word choice was quite poor.

My apologies. Rural=boring. Better?

 

[Rx MPLS]

I have evidence to the contrary. But, it's primarily anecdotal and is mainly composed of quotes.

"Education in general are better in the big cities with private schools than they are in the rural area with very little resources."

Forgive me, but the credibility of these school rankings and generalizations touting the high-quality of private school (city) education essentially implodes when you have spokespeople from these schools who can't communicate effectively in proper English?

I think you are out of line. Clearly, reading her posts, English is not her first language. To continually harp on that is rude. I'm not saying that you shouldn't disagree with what she wrote, but nitpicking the English of somebody who came here at an older age is uncalled for and unprofessional.

 

[SHC1984]

I think you are out of line. Clearly, reading her posts, English is not her first language. To continually harp on that is rude. I'm not saying that you shouldn't disagree with what she wrote, but nitpicking the English of somebody who came here at an older age is uncalled for and unprofessional.

It's not a big deal. I had to deal with rude rednecks all the time when I worked in Rome, GA. They are from the woods and very rude to everyone. So it's not a surprise. They don't know any better and I won't argue with them. They think they know everything, so they should act rude all the time...so I just let them be. No biggie.

They lack something call MANNERS.

It's funny now that we bring this up...I know a guy that have an accent when he talks...he can't speak English without an accent b/c he is from a different country.

And stupid rednecks will always be really rude to him and treat him very poorly when they hear his accent...BUT later on they are all SHOCKED and try to suck up to him when they find out that he is actually worth MILLIONS of dollars...he is a very rich man and very smart...he only has an accent b/c he isn't from the USA...only been here for a few years...

But it's okay, rednecks will always be rednecks.Chances are he probably have a very poor PCAT score and GPA so he is arguing with my post in the first place. *sigh* REDNECKS will be rednecks.

 

[Rx MPLS]

It's not a big deal. I had to deal with rude rednecks all the time when I worked in Rome, GA. They are from the woods and very rude to everyone. So it's not a surprise. They don't know any better and I won't argue with them. They think they know everything, so they should act rude all the time...so I just let them be. No biggie.

They lack something call MANNERS.

It's funny now that we bring this up...I know a guy that have an accent when he talks...he can't speak English without an accent b/c he is from a different country.

And stupid rednecks will always be really rude to him and treat him very poorly when they hear his accent...BUT later on they are all SHOCKED and try to suck up to him when they find out that he is actually worth MILLIONS of dollars...he a very rich man and very smart...he only has an accent b/c he isn't from the USA...only been here for a few years...

But it's okay, rednecks will always be rednecks.Chances are he probably have a very poor PCAT score and GPA so he is arguing with my post in the first place. *sigh* REDNECKS will be rednecks.

Though I get what you are saying about people being judgmental, this argument won't help your cause. Calling people rednecks or uneducated is considered offensive, too.

 

[SHC1984]

Though I get what you are saying about people being judgmental, this argument won't help your cause. Calling people rednecks or uneducated is considered offensive, too.

I mean it's just very ironic that all the people that make fun of other people's English or accent are almost always uneducated people that don't know any better. I have yet to hear a smart, educated person make fun of anyone's English...especially when it's because they are just pissed off b/c they are losing an arguement and can't find anything else to add.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

It's not a big deal. I had to deal with rude rednecks all the time when I worked in Rome, GA. They are from the woods and very rude to everyone. So it's not a surprise. They don't know any better and I won't argue with them. They think they know everything, so they should act rude all the time...so I just let them be. No biggie.

They lack something call MANNERS.

It's funny now that we bring this up...I know a guy that have an accent when he talks...he can't speak English without an accent b/c he is from a different country.

And stupid rednecks will always be really rude to him and treat him very poorly when they hear his accent...BUT later on they are all SHOCKED and try to suck up to him when they find out that he is actually worth MILLIONS of dollars...he is a very rich man and very smart...he only has an accent b/c he isn't from the USA...only been here for a few years...

But it's okay, rednecks will always be rednecks.Chances are he probably have a very poor PCAT score and GPA so he is arguing with my post in the first place. *sigh* REDNECKS will be rednecks.

I hate to break it to you, but your manners are very bad too. You really need to work on how you present yourself and treat other people. It's going to hold you back in life, if it hasn't already.

 

[SHC1984]

I hate to break it to you, but your manners are very bad too. You really need to work on how you present yourself and treat other people. It's going to hold you back in life, if it hasn't already.

I am actually the nicest person. I was very nice the entire time until Farmer Boy decided to make fun of me when he had nothing else to add to the topic on hand.

I would say I am more HOT temper than anything else. I am always very nice and stay very nice until someone piss me off than I am like a firecracker.

But in this situation I should have just been the bigger person and ignore him. That I agreed with.

Yes, my hot temper doesn't always do me favors...I need to learn to just ignore jerks instead of arguing with them.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I am actually the nicest person. I was very nice the entire time until Farmer Boy decided to make fun of me when he had nothing else to add to the topic on hand.

I would say I am more HOT temper than anything else. I am always very nice and stay very nice until someone piss me off than I am like a firecracker.

But in this situation I should have just been the bigger person and ignore him. That I agreed with.

Yes, my hot temper doesn't always do me favors...I need to learn to just ignore jerks instead of arguing with them.

OK, this response shows some improvement but you are STILL calling him names. So, overall... still .

 

[SHC1984]

OK, this response shows some improvement but you are STILL calling him names. So, overall... still .

It's a huge improvement from 10 years ago. When I was 17 yo I worked for a guy that needed help b/c he is short staffed (not a surprise he was a huge jerk!)...I was only going to be there for 2 weeks. I was always nice there of course...and the sweetest person etc.

Until one day I made a mistake with one of the orders...it was a small mistake that could have been easily fixed...he got mad at me and started calling me all kinds of names!

I got PISSED that I pour a pitcher of tea on him and threw a plate at him and cussed him out and walked out of there!

I was only 17 yo at the time and my temper was 1000X worst back then...It's getting better now but still not good at all.

But man, I really shouldn't have threw a plate at him...glad I didn't get sue! now looking back..I think it would have been better to just walk outta there without saying anything.

 

[PolymeraseIII]

1) They can always use a mail order pharmacy if they don't want to drive. If you want something bad enough you will get it. There is no such thing as something being too far or "too hard to get" so it's impossible for me to get it. The beach is 5 hrs away from my house...so that means it's impossible for me to go huh? NO WAY. I go on a regular basis b/c I want to...I will drive or fly just to go there b/c I love it. SO you are telling me rural folks can't make it to a pharmacy b/c it's a few hrs away? hahahaha...I don't believe it. That's just an excuse..if someone want something BAD ENOUGH they will get it. If being too far makes it impossible...then it would techinically be impossible for me to ever go to the beach as it is almost 6 hrs away from me but I go on a regular basis. Plus like I added before...they always had the luxury of using a mail order pharmacy and have NO hassle either...so I still don't see the problem of 50 pharmacy schools.

2) Living in rural areas pretty much means you have to drive far for everything right? How else do they get groceries, clothes, shoes etc. By driving FAR right? I lived in Rome, GA last summer to do my summer internship and it was RURAL to me. The city had a populartion of 37,000 only. I had to drive 2 hrs just to go to Atlanta so I can go to a mall that actually had stores that I would shop in. LOL... My point is rural folks should be use to driving far for things right?

3) No one in their right minds would move to rural areas...it's too inconvienent...there is nothing there at all. I lived in Rome for 2 months and I almost died...I don't know how anyone can stand it. If you want children you better live in the city...rural areas have the crappest school systems. If you want your child to attend the best private schools than the city is the way to go. I rather die than move to a rural area.

4) Pharmacy is becoming like all the other jobs. In the other thread I have other people reporting that the class of 2012 have an umemployment rate of 15% to 20%. That is NOT counting the people in residencies who are techincally unemployed too. So pharmacy NOW has an unemployment rate of 20%. So not too different than most other jobs. Yes, you are right...10 year ago pharmacist did have it all...now? NO way. Pharmacy is no better than law or any other career now. Yes, 10 years ago you would be right in that pharmacy had it better...now it's much WORST...it has the same unemployment rate but everyone else has NO student loans but pharmacy students do! Good trade huh?

5) Yes, other jobs have it bad too...of course. But other jobs didn't require 8 years of college after high school and other jobs do not require any student loans. If I didn't have to go to college at all and took out ZERO student loans then of course I would care much less. Most people graduate undergrad with no student loans anyways...so even if you got a bachelors degree with no loans then you would most likely care LESS compare to a pharmacy student with 100K in debt! If I didn't have 80K from pharmacy school I would careless myself.

Yeah I'm not going to lie, your views on rural areas and people living in them are pretty offensive. I grew up in a town of about 300 people. I also often did have a red neck from working outside so much. However, I managed to get a full ride to my state university where I'll be graduating with a 4.0 and a degree in molecular biology and chemistry. So it looks like my "crappest" school system taught me well. My classmates are doing just fine too.

Also, even if a lot of people in rural areas are uneducated, at least they're nice. They understand the value of hard work. You should probably do your best to stay away from broad, stupid generalizations .

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Yeah I'm not going to lie, your views on rural areas and people living in them are pretty offensive. I grew up in a town of about 300 people. I also often did have a red neck from working outside so much. However, I managed to get a full ride to my state university where I'll be graduating with a 4.0 and a degree in molecular biology and chemistry. So it looks like my "crappest" school system taught me well. My classmates are doing just fine too.

Also, even if a lot of people in rural areas are uneducated, at least they're nice. They understand the value of hard work. You should probably do your best to stay away from broad, stupid generalizations .

That whole post is laughable. Rome, GA isn't rural! I also grew up in a small town, went to public schools and have done just fine. Most of my family members are farmers or blue collar workers. It's disheartening to me to see people who understand so little about life outside of their privileged, pampered little circles.

 

[rxlea]

I think we should send SHC on a vacation to the ghettos of philly or to cabrini green in chicago. It can be a service learning experience!

EDIT: so I googled cabrini green. The last time I was there was in 94. Although I've been to chitown many times after that. Apparently the whole place has been demolished/gentrified. Guess we'll have to send SHC to chicago's south side.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I think we should send SHC on a vacation to the ghettos of philly or to cabrini green in chicago. It can be a service learning experience!

Or to stay with migrant workers in a bunkhouse on a Kentucky tobacco farm. Or to work in the barns on one of our horse farms.

 

[rxlea]

Or to stay with migrant workers in a bunkhouse on a Kentucky tobacco farm. Or to work in the barns on one of our horse farms.

I'd love to work on a horse farm! I'd die of heat stroke on the tobacco farm, though.

Hey, SHC, if at any time you come to AZ, I'll take you to Phoenix's south side...at night. Don't worry, I'll borrow my stepdad's glock. He taught me to shoot when I was 10 (he's a cop). I learned to fight/defend myself when I went to that ghetto high school. Plus I'm brown. I won't look "suspicious" in the ghetto. We'll get you a hoodie

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I'd love to work on a horse farm! I'd die of heat stroke on the tobacco farm, though.

Hey, SHC, if at any time you come to AZ, I'll take you to Phoenix's south side...at night. Don't worry, I'll borrow my stepdad's glock. He taught me to shoot when I was 10 (he's a cop). I learned to fight/defend myself when I went to that ghetto high school. Plus I'm brown. I won't look "suspicious" in the ghetto. We'll get you a hoodie

Horses are pretty but the poop stinks SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad! SHC will love it.

You must not be a real brown person if you can't take the heat. I see the real brown people on roofs and in the fields in the summer in jeans and long sleeve shirts. It makes me feel faint just observing it.

 

[rxlea]

Horses are pretty but the poop stinks SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad! SHC will love it.

LMAO... I think I'd donate a louie vitton purse just to see that!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

LMAO... I think I'd donate a louie vitton purse just to see that!

Check out my edit.

 

[rxlea]

You must not be a real brown person if you can't take the heat. I see the real brown people on roofs and in the fields in the summer in jeans and long sleeve shirts. It makes me feel faint just observing it.

Apparently I got too much of my dad's european ancestry. Not enough melanin, I guess. It's the humidity that would kill me. I can take 115...as long as it's a dry heat

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Apparently I got too much of my dad's european ancestry. Not enough melanin, I guess. It's the humidity that would kill me. I can take 115...as long as it's a dry heat

Oh, so what you're saying is that white people ruin everything? I agree!