class rank and residency

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medstud27 said:
Hi,

Does anybody know what is the class rank range necessary to have to get into a residency in neurology, cardiology and pediatrics?
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Wrong forum but from what I gather through my SDN travels. Neuro/Peds just pass. Cardio is a fellowship after you do an internal med residency. It seems as though class rank in general is pretty low on the list of "what I need for a good residency"
 
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Dont listen to the guy above me, residencies release information every year showing what they put value on. The residency directors take surveys and then the average values for categories get published in an annual report.

Class Rank is consistently within the top 4 things that they value.


And before you ask me for source, just google NBME data for residencies, this kind of stuff isnt like hearsay or rumor, its all in plain sight, thats why I get amused when I see threads like this where people argue about what is and what isnt important to land residencies.


Sorry if I am too lazy to copy paste the link, been studying all day and about to watch Game of Thrones.
 
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Sloo0 said:
Dont listen to the guy above me, residencies release information every year showing what they put value on. The residency directors take surveys and then the average values for categories get published in an annual report.

Class Rank is consistently within the top 4 things that they value.


And before you ask me for source, just google NBME data for residencies, this kind of stuff isnt like hearsay or rumor, its all in plain sight, thats why I get amused when I see threads like this where people argue about what is and what isnt important to land residencies.


Sorry if I am too lazy to copy paste the link, been studying all day and about to watch Game of Thrones.
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Well thanks sir. My school doesn't do class rank so I guess I'm f***ed
 
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pvtbacon said:
Well thanks sir. My school doesn't do class rank so I guess I'm f***ed
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Not having a class rank is a good thing it usually means you go to a school that is reputable enough so they don't feel the need to rank their students (Yale is one I think?). Another possibility is that some schools say they don't have rankings but they really do (internal rankings). I'm not sure if internal rankings ever get sent out.
 
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FWIW, even if schools don't rank, they DO include catch phrases in the dean's letter. For ex, he/she is an outstanding, excellent, good student that correlates with top 1/3, middle 1/3 and rest of class.
 
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Here is order of importance according to 2012 NRMP Program Director Survey


1. USMLE/COMLEX Step 1 score
2. Letters of recommendation in the specialty
3. Personal Statement
4. Grades in required clerkships
5. USMLE/COMLEX Step 2 score
6. Grades in clerkship in desired specialty
7. Graduate of U.S. allopathic medical school
8. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE/Dean's Letter)
9. Class ranking/quartile
10. Gaps in medical education
11. Personal prior knowledge of the applicant
12. Perceived commitment to specialty
13. Honors in clinical clerkships
14. Applicant was flagged with Match violation by the NRMP
15. Volunteer/extracurricular experiences
16. Other life experience
17. Honors in clerkship in desired specialty
18. Consistency of grades
19. Audition elective/rotation within your department
 
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Mean Importance Ratings* of Factors in Ranking Applicants
*Ratings on a scale from 1 (not at all important) to 5 (very important).

Applicant was flagged with Match violation by the NRMP 4.8
Interactions with faculty during interview and visit 4.7
Interpersonal skills 4.7
Interactions with house staff during interview and visit 4.6
Feedback from current residents 4.5
Evidence of professionalism and ethics 4.5
Grades in clerkship in desired specialty 4.2
Perceived commitment to specialty 4.2
Letters of recommendation in the specialty 4.2
Graduate of U.S. allopathic medical school 4.1
USMLE/COMLEX Step 1 score 4.1
Leadership qualities 4.1
Honors in clerkship in desired specialty 4.0
Gaps in medical education 4.0
Grades in required clerkships 4.0
USMLE/COMLEX Step 2 score 4.0
Honors in clinical clerkships 3.9
Class ranking/quartile 3.9
Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE/Dean's Letter) 3.8
Personal prior knowledge of the applicant 3.8
Consistency of grades 3.8
Perceived interest in program 3.7
Visa status** 3.7
Audition elective/rotation within your department 3.7
Graduate of highly regarded U.S. medical school 3.6
Alpha Omega Alpha (AOA) membership 3.4
Fluency in language spoken by your patient population 3.3
Personal Statement 3.3
Other life experience 3.2
Demonstrated involvement and interest in research 3.1
Honors in basic sciences 3.0
Volunteer/extracurricular experiences 3.0
USMLE/COMLEX Step 3 score** 3.0
Other post-interview contact 2.8
Interest in academic career 2.8
Gold Society membership 2.8
Second interview/visit 2.6
Away rotation in your specialty at another institution 2.4
 
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amconteh said:
Here is order of importance according to 2012 NRMP Program Director Survey


1. USMLE/COMLEX Step 1 score
2. Letters of recommendation in the specialty
3. Personal Statement
4. Grades in required clerkships
5. USMLE/COMLEX Step 2 score
6. Grades in clerkship in desired specialty
7. Graduate of U.S. allopathic medical school
8. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE/Dean's Letter)
9. Class ranking/quartile
10. Gaps in medical education
11. Personal prior knowledge of the applicant
12. Perceived commitment to specialty
13. Honors in clinical clerkships
14. Applicant was flagged with Match violation by the NRMP
15. Volunteer/extracurricular experiences
16. Other life experience
17. Honors in clerkship in desired specialty
18. Consistency of grades
19. Audition elective/rotation within your department
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Why is step one score the number one thing that PD look at but it's not the highest mean importance rating? Can someone explain the discrepancy? thanks.
 
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Well as with most things getting your foot in the door is always the first step...

USMLE/COMLEX Step 1 score is most important factor for Directors in determining whether you even get an interview or not.

Most competitive specialties have a target score they are looking for.

After interview comes ranking. Since most people that have interviewed tend to have kinda similar step scores I guess they then place emphasis on other things.
 
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I think when you participate in NRMP match you agree to their rules and conduct. Violation of these can lead to:

"Confirmed violations by an applicant are reported by the NRMP to the applicant's medical school, the American Board of Medical Specialties, the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates if the applicant is a student/graduate of an international medical school, and other appropriate individuals and organizations. In addition, applicant violators may be barred from future NRMP matches and/or identified as a match violator for one to three years or permanently, and may be precluded for one year from accepting or starting a position in any program sponsored by an NRMP match-participating institution. Applicants who are barred permanently from the NRMP also are reported to the Federation of State Medical Boards."
 
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amconteh said:
Here is order of importance according to 2012 NRMP Program Director Survey


1. USMLE/COMLEX Step 1 score
2. Letters of recommendation in the specialty
3. Personal Statement
4. Grades in required clerkships
5. USMLE/COMLEX Step 2 score
6. Grades in clerkship in desired specialty
7. Graduate of U.S. allopathic medical school 👎thumbdown
8. Medical Student Performance Evaluation (MSPE/Dean's Letter)
9. Class ranking/quartile
10. Gaps in medical education
11. Personal prior knowledge of the applicant
12. Perceived commitment to specialty
13. Honors in clinical clerkships
14. Applicant was flagged with Match violation by the NRMP
15. Volunteer/extracurricular experiences
16. Other life experience
17. Honors in clerkship in desired specialty
18. Consistency of grades
19. Audition elective/rotation within your department
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Boo
 
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Sloo0 said:
Dont listen to the guy above me, residencies release information every year showing what they put value on. The residency directors take surveys and then the average values for categories get published in an annual report.

Class Rank is consistently within the top 4 things that they value.


And before you ask me for source, just google NBME data for residencies, this kind of stuff isnt like hearsay or rumor, its all in plain sight, thats why I get amused when I see threads like this where people argue about what is and what isnt important to land residencies.


Sorry if I am too lazy to copy paste the link, been studying all day and about to watch Game of Thrones.
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With the additional of the information posted in this thread and people providing sources and not just saying "google it yourself", it really seems like you're probably the one he shouldn't be listening to.
 
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MLT2MT2DO said:
With the additional of the information posted in this thread and people providing sources and not just saying "google it yourself", it really seems like you're probably the one he shouldn't be listening to.
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Slooo is probably just spiteful because his/her positive vs negative pressure thread isn't getting any replies other than "open a damn book" or "wiki it".
 
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Sloo0 said:
Yep, I'm super angry, furious, upset, etc etc

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf
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You're still not doing yourself or your argument any favors.

Someone made a solid point a while ago about the PD Survey numbers, at least when it comes to looking at larger specialties (IM Peds FM etc). Namely that the majority of these programs aren't looking super hard at class rank because they know most of their residents are going to be coming from the middle of the pack. They probably aren't viewing the difference between someone at the 60th percentile as being that different from someone at the 40th.

That is not the viewpoint of the PDs at the more competitive programs within those specialties, who are looking at class rank more closely. Their responses however - when they're even in the survey - are drowned out when you look at the response means.
 
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Ok, Class Rank means nothing, Board Scores mean nothing (unless you do well).


Thats kind of what this forum boils down to. Insecure or nervous people looking for confirmation/supporting evidence to make their future seem less daunting and then there are the random argumentative people who probably use this as some sort of stress venting etc etc.


Youre not going to get me in to an argument war man lol, everything is in that link, enough said. Game over.
 
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Sloo0 said:
Ok, Class Rank means nothing, Board Scores mean nothing (unless you do well).


Thats kind of what this forum boils down to. Insecure or nervous people looking for confirmation/supporting evidence to make their future seem less daunting and then there are the random argumentative people who probably use this as some sort of stress venting etc etc.


Youre not going to get me in to an argument war man lol, everything is in that link, enough said. Game over.
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Based on what I've read/seen from you so far, the bolded text is quite ironic.
 
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Sloo0 said:
Ok, Class Rank means nothing, Board Scores mean nothing (unless you do well).


Thats kind of what this forum boils down to. Insecure or nervous people looking for confirmation/supporting evidence to make their future seem less daunting and then there are the random argumentative people who probably use this as some sort of stress venting etc etc.


Youre not going to get me in to an argument war man lol, everything is in that link, enough said. Game over.
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Did you are just basically diss everyone because they don't subscribe to your viewpoint?

Dude! I seriously hope that you were joking... cos man, this is medicine! a field where you care for folks... you have to find a way to keep some of your idealism, and altruism... else it will eat u up!
 
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SLC said:
Based on what I've read/seen from you so far, the bolded text is quite ironic.
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Yep, the guy who posts clear cut evidence right to the source and leaves it out for interpretation is argumentative.


Got me.


Unless you are referring to the former, in which case: 😕
 
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Sloo0 said:
Ok, Class Rank means nothing, Board Scores mean nothing (unless you do well).


Thats kind of what this forum boils down to. Insecure or nervous people looking for confirmation/supporting evidence to make their future seem less daunting and then there are the random argumentative people who probably use this as some sort of stress venting etc etc.


Youre not going to get me in to an argument war man lol, everything is in that link, enough said. Game over.
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You don't post often, but you do manage to land foot-in-mouth with some considerable accuracy.
 
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Pons Asinorum said:
You don't post often, but you do manage to land foot-in-mouth with some considerable accuracy.
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It seems like the regulars on the playground are getting upset/confrontational towards the new kid on the playground using the monkey bars.


This is fun. 🙂
 
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Anyone who cares about their career is going to care about this stuff. Sometimes the tradeoff needs to be made whether to focus more on class rank of board scores
 
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Sloo0 said:
It seems like the regulars on the playground are getting upset/confrontational towards the new kid on the playground using the monkey bars.


This is fun.
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This all started because you took on a very abrasive tone towards a 5+ year regular with a comment that went something along the lines of:

"Don't listen to the clown above me; he doesn't know what he's talking about. Here's some broscience that isn't founded on baseless rumors and hearsay. It's so amusing to watch all you jokesters argue about what's important for residency yadda yadda when the FACTS are in plain sight. I'd love to link to my sauce, but I'm too lazy so go google it yourself while I excuse myself to watch some Game of Thrones."

You do realize that people in this community are all going to be your colleagues one day right? Get off your high horse and contribute with helpful posts before you start a fight
 
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Slc is like the Lannisters of this forum he always wins because he always pays his debts
 
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