Class sizes in carribean schools

[bravotwozero]

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How many students are there in entering classes of carribean schools?

 

[pmtdenna]

How many students are there in entering classes of carribean schools?

I'm not sure about the others, but Saba says that they like to keep it around 50 but no more than 60 students per semester. This is according to the office mgr @ Gardner, MA office.

 

[McGillGrad]

Depends on the school and the semester

 

[bravotwozero]

Depends on the school and the semester

OK, What would be ballpark ranges for schools such as SGU and ROSS?

 

[McGillGrad]

OK, What would be ballpark ranges for schools such as SGU and ROSS?

Between 300-450 for September.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

OK, What would be ballpark ranges for schools such as SGU and ROSS?

minimum: 350

maximum: sky is the limit

 

[neutropenic]

minimum: 350

maximum: sky is the limit

How do you preserve quality with that many people? Do they have many lecture groups? or many preceptors? How is advising done? Most US schools are 100 students per year +/- though there are some larger ones.

 

[Jamesmtl]

Advising? In many of the caribbean schools you're on your own!

 

[McGillGrad]

How do you preserve quality with that many people? Do they have many lecture groups? or many preceptors? How is advising done? Most US schools are 100 students per year +/- though there are some larger ones.

It is based on the premise of population pressure and selective advancement.

I am guessing that those who survive the conditions move on to smaller and smaller classes and those unfortunate few that cannot handle the class size and accelerated curriculum will either repeat or leave the school.

 

[MD Dreams]

I would agree that in Caribbean schools you are very much on your own.

They also try and weed a lot of people out, basically by presenting an enormous amount of material, which some people cannot handle (although the may have qualities that would make them a real good doctor).

I kind of see it as a trade-off. You'll get an MD, but that's the price you have to pay for going overseas.

Nontheless, if you go there committed, you will learn what you need to and you will learn it well, but a lot depends on the individual. I've always had the idea that we really don't need schools to learn the material in the first two years of med school. Most of it can be self-taught. Going to a school is just a formality.

One good thing about accepting so many people, is that many who may never had the chance, get a shot at becoming a doctor. US med schools try to weed (sp?) out student before they get accepted to school. Carib schools accept many, but try to weed them out during med school. As long as you make it, it can be a win-win situation. You get a degree (and a good education if you are focused) and the school gets a ton of money.

Chancelor Modica is one smart cookie!

 

[daelroy]

This is o-chem all over again. When you have 350 students in a class, you know they are going to try and weed you out. This is an insult. You don't feel like a professional. This is why I fail to see why anyone would choose to go through this over a U.S. school. At the graduate level, you have already achieved some success and you shouldn't be treated like you are 18. This provides for a malicious environment and unnecessary competition. What is the o-chem equivalent at Ross, biochem? There is a difference between being challenged and tests being deliberately impossible just to weed students. U.S. schools both M.D. and D.O. treat their students like professionals and not college freshmen.

 

[McGillGrad]

The French medical system is exactly like this except it is explicitly known that even though anyone can try, only the top 10-15% of every class continues on to the next level. Everyone else is left behind.

It is kind of like missing the first boat (US/Canadian med school) and being forced to fight for a chance to catch the next boat (albeit smaller and crappier than the first boat).

As the old adage goes, beggars cannot be choosers.

This is o-chem all over again. When you have 350 students in a class, you know they are going to try and weed you out. This is an insult. You don't feel like a professional. This is why I fail to see why anyone would choose to go through this over a U.S. school. At the graduate level, you have already achieved some success and you shouldn't be treated like you are 18. This provides for a malicious environment and unnecessary competition. What is the o-chem equivalent at Ross, biochem? There is a difference between being challenged and tests being deliberately impossible just to weed students. U.S. schools both M.D. and D.O. treat their students like professionals and not college freshmen.

 

[daelroy]

The French medical system is exactly like this except it is explicitly known that even though anyone can try, only the top 10-15% of every class continues on to the next level. Everyone else is left behind.

It is kind of like missing the first boat (US/Canadian med school) and being forced to fight for a chance to catch the next boat (albeit smaller and crappier than the first boat).

As the old adage goes, beggars cannot be choosers.

Oh come now, these days no one has to be a beggar especially with the advent of masters, post-bac and other programs that allow backdoor entrances to U.S. schools.

The only way I would go to Ross is if I didn't want to waste time pursuing these other routes and I was 100% sure that I wanted to do primary care If you want to keep your options open, wait a year and reapply. That would be my advice. What's another year in the long scheme of things especially if it means you can become the type of physician you want to be. I have wanted to be a surgeon for a while and so I knew I would have almost no chance coming out of a foreign school.

 

[McGillGrad]

Oh come now, these days no one has to be a beggar especially with the advent of masters, post-bac and other programs that allow backdoor entrances to U.S. schools.

The only way I would go to Ross is if I didn't want to waste time pursuing these other routes and I wanted to pursue primary care. If you want to keep your options open, wait a year and reapply

That is true for those who have broderline GPAs (3.0-3.5) and MCATs (26-29) but for those who have low GPAs in the 2.6-2.9 range, the chances of reapplying after extra degrees or master's classes are not very good.

You and I both know that it would be great to be in a school where they encourage you to succeed in every way possible, sometimes we are left with few choices.

In the end, we will either work hard or we will reach for a crutch. If we are in the Carib, the crutch is gone so it comes down to how hard we are willing to work knowing that the only other option is failing.

 

[MD Dreams]

Oh come now, these days no one has to be a beggar especially with the advent of masters, post-bac and other programs that allow backdoor entrances to U.S. schools.

The only way I would go to Ross is if I didn't want to waste time pursuing these other routes and I was 100% sure that I wanted to do primary care If you want to keep your options open, wait a year and reapply. That would be my advice. What's another year in the long scheme of things especially if it means you can become the type of physician you want to be. I have wanted to be a surgeon for a while and so I knew I would have almost no chance coming out of a foreign school.

I applied three different times, was waitlisted at two US schools, 0 admissions. Had I chosen a backdoor option, I would still be applying. But now, I'm almost a fourth year med student. I'm also not going into primary care.

Some people choose to go Carib, others have no other choice. I fell into the latter category. But I worked hard, kept my fiath and here I am today. I'm very happy things have worked out for me. I don't know where I would be today had I not gone Carib (please refer to above where it says still applying). All the best.

 

[daelroy]

I applied three different times, was waitlisted at two US schools, 0 admissions. Had I chosen a backdoor option, I would still be applying. But now, I'm almost a fourth year med student. I'm also not going into primary care.

Some people choose to go Carib, others have no other choice. I fell into the latter category. But I worked hard, kept my fiath and here I am today. I'm very happy things have worked out for me. I don't know where I would be today had I not gone Carib (please refer to above where it says still applying). All the best.

You didn't even get into a DO school? Your shouldn't apply 3 times before you do the backdoor option. In fact, so many students make the same mistake you did by not doing the backdoor route immediately after their senior year. They gamble and try the 3 time application route when they should have went into a postbac or masters immediately after college. I know several people who did this route and are now in U.S. schools after only 1-2 years in their program. 1-2 years is not a lot to give up if it means you can go to a U.S. school. What people fail to realize is these backdoor routes are more or less kickbacks to the medical school. A lot of medical schools' host institutions will offer some postbac/masters in which if you earn a certain GPA and improve your MCAT, you have a "improved opportunity" wink wink of getting in. If more applicants were aware of the business side of the applications game, they can manipulate it to their advantage. The universities earn a lot of money through these post-bac programs and need to show success of its graduates to keep them viable. Therefore, medical schools often have an arrangement with these postbacs to admit a certain number of their students. Most are unaware of this arrangement and just assume its like going to some random program. In short, postbacs and masters provide you with political clout that you would lack as someone who reapplied.

 

[pmtdenna]

You didn't even get into a DO school? Your shouldn't apply 3 times before you do the backdoor option. In fact, so many students make the same mistake you did by not doing the backdoor route immediately after their senior year. They gamble and try the 3 time application route when they should have went into a postbac or masters immediately after college. I know several people who did this route and are now in U.S. schools after only 1-2 years in their program. 1-2 years is not a lot to give up if it means you can go to a U.S. school. What people fail to realize is these backdoor routes are more or less kickbacks to the medical school. A lot of medical schools' host institutions will offer some postbac/masters in which if you earn a certain GPA and improve your MCAT, you have a "improved opportunity" wink wink of getting in. If more applicants were aware of the business side of the applications game, they can manipulate it to their advantage. The universities earn a lot of money through these post-bac programs and need to show success of its graduates to keep them viable. Therefore, medical schools often have an arrangement with these postbacs to admit a certain number of their students. Most are unaware of this arrangement and just assume its like going to some random program. In short, postbacs and masters provide you with political clout that you would lack as someone who reapplied.

What do you mean by "You didn't even get into a DO school?" In case you haven't noticed, it is a lot tougher to get into a DO program. Most DO schools now have a accepted student average GPA 3.45 and 28 MCAT. I agree with your assesment of going for a masters and then reapplying. However, the postbac programs are anything but a lock. You have a much better chance of getting in the 2nd time around with a masters than with a postbac. True, a postbac might help your standing at the school that sponsors the postbac, but it means little to all the other schools you apply to.

 

[daelroy]

What do you mean by "You didn't even get into a DO school?" In case you haven't noticed, it is a lot tougher to get into a DO program. Most DO schools now have a accepted student average GPA 3.45 and 28 MCAT. I agree with your assesment of going for a masters and then reapplying. However, the postbac programs are anything but a lock. You have a much better chance of getting in the 2nd time around with a masters than with a postbac. True, a postbac might help your standing at the school that sponsors the postbac, but it means little to all the other schools you apply to.

I'm a DO so yes I know what I'm talking about. DO schools are more lenient and are better about evaluating the entire candidate instead of just putting them on a numbers pedestal. No, a postbac is FAR better than a masters. A lot of masters programs are jokes particularly the MPH or ones in which you are graded by your advisor for simply showing up to lab. Everyone knows the non-thesis masters are ridiculously easy and grades coming out of these programs are inflated. I don't think I have ever known or seen anyone on SDN with a masters GPA less than 3.7. I know you would like to believe all these 3.7 or higher masters students are guys who just became better students overnight but the reality is they took a lot easier courses especially the ambiguous research classes like "Research Methods" Adcoms are well aware of this. The only masters programs that I would recommend are the non-thesis ones in which your grades are dependent upon classes and exams and not how populare you are with your research advisor. Also, postbac improves your GPA which a masters doesn't so a masters can't help you overcome a GPA cutoff at a particular medical school. A masters is good for people whose GPA is above a 3.3 but whose MCAT was not competitive enough. I know people who got masters degrees and basically studied for the MCAT all year. They improved their MCAT and did some research in their masters and got in. But getting a 4.0 in an MPH when your undergrad was below 3.0 is not going to help you at all. So for most IMG's, they shold probably consider a postbac since they are trying to make up for bad college grades. A masters won't help you in that area.

 

[pmtdenna]

I'm a DO so yes I know what I'm talking about. No, a postbac is FAR better than a masters. A lot of masters programs are jokes particularly the MPH or ones in which you are graded by your advisor for simply showing up to lab. Everyone knows the non-thesis masters are ridiculously easy and grades coming out of these programs are inflated. I don't think I have ever known or seen anyone on SDN with a masters GPA less than 3.7. I know you would like to believe all these 3.7 or higher masters students are guys who just became better students overnight but the reality is they took a lot easier courses especially the ambiguous research classes like "Research Methods" Adcoms are well aware of this. The only masters programs that I would recommend are the non-thesis ones in which your grades are dependent upon classes and exams and not how populare you are with your research advisor. Also, postbac improves your GPA which a masters doesn't so a masters can't help you overcome a GPA cutoff at a particular medical school. A masters is good for people whose GPA is above a 3.3 but whose MCAT was not competitive enough. I know people who got masters degrees and basically studied for the MCAT all year. They improved their MCAT and did some research in their masters and got in. But getting a 4.0 in an MPH when your undergrad was below 3.0 is not going to help you at all. So for most IMG's, they shold probably consider a postbac since they are trying to make up for bad college grades. A masters won't help you in that area.

Where are you getting your info? A masters GPA is calculated into your overall GPA. Agreed, some masters programs are worth more than others and one should be careful in picking their program. But the same can be said for postbac programs. I'm not disagreeing with your premise that postbac programs can help. But you must admit that a postbac program has a limited effect on both GPA and overall chances of acceptance. It is not a guarantee by any stretch, even with the same school attended.

 

[daelroy]

Where are you getting your info? A masters GPA is calculated into your overall GPA. Agreed, some masters programs are worth more than others and one should be careful in picking their program. But the same can be said for postbac programs. I'm not disagreeing with your premise that postbac programs can help. But you must admit that a postbac program has a limited effect on both GPA and overall chances of acceptance. It is not a guarantee by any stretch, even with the same school attended.

I'm in medical school unlike you and was accepted to both U.S. M.D. and D.O. schools. I was also a postbac applicant. I had a high MCAT (30+) but a low GPA (below 3.0). And no, your masters GPA is not calculated into your overall GPA. You include your Masters GPA on your AMCAS or ACCOMAS form but it's not calculated into your reported overall and science GPA on your form. And yes, I agree with you that a postbac and masters is no guarantee. But your odds are better to do one of these than simply reapplying and hoping they will like you the second time around.

And I saw a previous post. Your 3.2 and 28 MCAT is respectable. I would do a masters if I were you. Research which programs have a good placement rate of their grads into the host medical school. I wouldn't just go to SABA yet. I have faith you could get into a U.S. program if you played the game right.

 

[pmtdenna]

I'm in medical school unlike you and was accepted to both U.S. M.D. and D.O. schools. I was also a postbac applicant. I had a high MCAT (30+) but a low GPA (below 3.0). And no, your masters GPA is not calculated into your overall GPA. You include your Masters GPA on your AMCAS or ACCOMAS form but it's not calculated into your reported overall and science GPA on your form. And yes, I agree with you that a postbac and masters is no guarantee. But your odds are better to do one of these than simply reapplying and hoping they will like you the second time around.

And I saw a previous post. Your 3.2 and 28 MCAT is respectable. I would do a masters if I were you. Research which programs have a good placement rate of their grads into the host medical school. I wouldn't just go to SABA yet. I have faith you could get into a U.S. program if you played the game right.

I appreciate the advice and the clarification. Didn't realize you were already in medical school. 😳 I am curious though. You made a very strong case for postbac programs, yet your advice to me was to do a masters. What is your reasoning on this? Very curious to know.

 

[daelroy]

I appreciate the advice and the clarification. Didn't realize you were already in medical school. 😳 I am curious though. You made a very strong case for postbac programs, yet your advice to me was to do a masters. What is your reasoning on this? Very curious to know.

I don't think your GPA is that low. I recommend post-bac for students with a GPA under a 3.0. A lot of programs set cutoffs at 3.0 and a good postbac can put someone over the 3.0 hump. With a 3.2, I think a masters would be better for you. Get your MCAT over a 30 and do a Masters at a program that is known to place a lot of it's graduates in medical schools.

 

[RaaMD]

I would agree that in Caribbean schools you are very much on your own.

They also try and weed a lot of people out, basically by presenting an enormous amount of material, which some people cannot handle (although the may have qualities that would make them a real good doctor).

I kind of see it as a trade-off. You'll get an MD, but that's the price you have to pay for going overseas.

Nontheless, if you go there committed, you will learn what you need to and you will learn it well, but a lot depends on the individual. I've always had the idea that we really don't need schools to learn the material in the first two years of med school. Most of it can be self-taught. Going to a school is just a formality.

One good thing about accepting so many people, is that many who may never had the chance, get a shot at becoming a doctor. US med schools try to weed (sp?) out student before they get accepted to school. Carib schools accept many, but try to weed them out during med school. As long as you make it, it can be a win-win situation. You get a degree (and a good education if you are focused) and the school gets a ton of money.

Chancelor Modica is one smart cookie!

Informative post.