SDF1

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Hey everyone,

Currently a MS1 at a NY school. We just finished our first system a couple of weeks ago. Honors is top 10% of class, with a overall average of 91% getting the H. I got an 85% in the overall system and apparently Im the only stupid one in my class who "just" recieved a Pass. Every single student I have spoken to tells me that they recieved honors, I have not met anyone else who earned "just" a pass. And apparently, "just a pass" will kill all your chances of landing even any residency!

Im usually a middle of the road type of guy. I know Im not the brighest, but I feel like Im at the bottom of my class. We just had an exam this past Monday. Everybody was talking about how hard the exam was and even the faculty acknowledged it was a very difficult exam. Anyway, I recieved an 80% on the test and was happy because I feel that I did very well because everyone else was telling me they "bombed" the test. The day after the answer key was posted, people as usual were talking about the exam and several students tell me "yeah I did pretty bad, a lot worse then I had hoped, I got a 90." I just want to scream!! Is it possible that my measly 80 can possibly be the lowest, or are all these people just inflating their scores?

A final rant, we are introduced to patient interaction during our first year. I saw how some of these students interact with patients and Im sorry to say its horrible! Im no superstar but a lot of the students are so "cold" when they are talking to patients, no emotion at all! I thought practicing medicine was an art, that requires compassion and caring about the patient, at least thats why I went into medicine.

I guess I was just having a bad day, anyone else feel the way I do?
 
Jun 22, 2010
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Hey everyone,

Currently a MS1 at a NY school. We just finished our first system a couple of weeks ago. Honors is top 10% of class, with a overall average of 91% getting the H. I got an 85% in the overall system and apparently Im the only stupid one in my class who "just" recieved a Pass. Every single student I have spoken to tells me that they recieved honors, I have not met anyone else who earned "just" a pass. And apparently, "just a pass" will kill all your chances of landing even any residency!

Im usually a middle of the road type of guy. I know Im not the brighest, but I feel like Im at the bottom of my class. We just had an exam this past Monday. Everybody was talking about how hard the exam was and even the faculty acknowledged it was a very difficult exam. Anyway, I recieved an 80% on the test and was happy because I feel that I did very well because everyone else was telling me they "bombed" the test. The day after the answer key was posted, people as usual were talking about the exam and several students tell me "yeah I did pretty bad, a lot worse then I had hoped, I got a 90." I just want to scream!! Is it possible that my measly 80 can possibly be the lowest, or are all these people just inflating their scores?

A final rant, we are introduced to patient interaction during our first year. I saw how some of these students interact with patients and Im sorry to say its horrible! Im no superstar but a lot of the students are so "cold" when they are talking to patients, no emotion at all! I thought practicing medicine was an art, that requires compassion and caring about the patient, at least thats why I went into medicine.

I guess I was just having a bad day, anyone else feel the way I do?
aww, u need a hug hehe

look:

1) I guarantee you that not everyone is getting Honors in your class...the people that just "pass" or fail simply don't feel the need to advertise that fact, unlike the gunners in your class. Don't pay any attention to them
2) Pre-clinical grades have SOOO little (almost none at all) weight in deciding your residency
3)Just do the best you can, don't pay attention to those kids
 

a winner is you

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2) Pre-clinical grades have SOOO little (almost none at all) weight in deciding your residency
That's a myth. Many schools incorporate pre-clinical grades into class rank and AOA, which do matter. Not to mention your pre-clinical knowledge serves as the base for doing well on step 1.
 
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F~(& the liars.

There are sometimes a few peeps in a class that lie (or stretch the truth or imply misrepresentations) about their grades to make themselves look like rockstars :thumbdown:thumbdown

Just remember to study smart (not hard... working hard is way overrated and useless if pounding your head against the same wall without modifications to your study techniques). Try different study techniques early. Test yourself with mock exams and any practice questions (from your profs, upperclassmen, etc) at least 2 weeks before the real test.

That way you know where you stand and still have some chance to cram in the last 2 weeks. :thumbup::thumbup:

I have a friend who got horrible M1 grades, mediocre M2/step scores -- friend is a fantastic clinician though (fantastic at working with patients, to hospital staff) and M3/M4 year was awesome for friend.

So anyway, we studied in parallel sometimes (not together, we both hate study groups, but liked studying in the same room to motivate each other).

AND STILL... despite all this, my friend got bomb stellar recommendations from top peeps in friend's desired specialty. And friend was amongst the first to be invited to interviews at some top residencies. :cool:

Anyway. Just saying.

I'm pretty sure that my friend wasn't living by "pass= MD," but despite doing mediocre in M1/M2, really rocked it out M3/M4.

So continue striving to do the best you can and you'll be fine.

Good luck :xf:
 

LifetimeDoc

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Focus on stuff in this order...
1. Kill Step 1
2. Did I forget to mention killing Step 1?
3. Keep up your health and sanity.
4. Learn all you can in the first two years so you can shine in third year.
...
X. Profit!
 

Marcus Brody

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Erm...don't ask people about their grades. :idea:

"Hey, I took a poll of the girls in my class on # dudes they've slept with, and, guess what- they're all liars!"

no one cares about 1st year grades anyway.
 

MeRLin443

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Just wait until they start lying to you during clerkship, and trying to show you up. Realize that most people aren't your friend, and that a lot of medical students are the scum of the earth, and will **** you over completely if they think it gives them even the slightest advantage.
 
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Just wait until they start lying to you during clerkship, and trying to show you up. Realize that most people aren't your friend, and that a lot of medical students are the scum of the earth, and will **** you over completely if they think it gives them even the slightest advantage.
... .... ...




Edit: never mind. I didn't read the part where you said only 10% of the class is allowed to honors.
 
OP
S

SDF1

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Erm...don't ask people about their grades. :idea:
I'm not the one who asks people about grades. People are asking me. It seems like they need some type of self gratification telling someone that they scored higher then you! I'm not a liar and don't inflate my grades if someone asks, I would tell you what I got, not "around the 90s".

Also, whats the point of asking me what I got for such and such question, you yourself don't know the answer, but you are sure that the answer I put down is wrong.

I keep getting mixed reviews if pre-clinical grades matter or not. At my school, its either fail, pass, or honors (with honors going to the top 10% of grades on the bell curve). This week we had a radiology attending come in from a well known NYC area hospital and speak to students; according to him not only does Step 1 matter, so does pre-clinical grades, the SAT!! and how you did in high school!! Whats the deal, is he for real?!
 

Quinone

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OP, you answered the question yourself. If Honors grades are reserved for the top 10% of the class, then a large number of people saying they Honored the course are lying. Simple.

Also, remind yourself that the vast majority of practicing physicians got "just a pass" in most of their preclinical courses. As you noted, getting the highest marks in biochem and the like does not necessarily reflect or predict one's future clinical acumen.

Relax, worry about yourself, and ignore those around you who deliberately try to make you feel inferior. :cool:
 

Quinone

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This week we had a radiology attending come in from a well known NYC area hospital and speak to students; according to him not only does Step 1 matter, so does pre-clinical grades, the SAT!! and how you did in high school!! Whats the deal, is he for real?!
This attending is full of ****. How exactly are residency directors going to get a hold of your high school grades/SAT scores, and what would they do with them if the had them? "Well, this individual only got a 720 on verbal; clearly he/she is going to be a worse doctor than this individual, who got a 730." :laugh:
 

cpants

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I'm not the one who asks people about grades. People are asking me. It seems like they need some type of self gratification telling someone that they scored higher then you! I'm not a liar and don't inflate my grades if someone asks, I would tell you what I got, not "around the 90s".

Also, whats the point of asking me what I got for such and such question, you yourself don't know the answer, but you are sure that the answer I put down is wrong.

I keep getting mixed reviews if pre-clinical grades matter or not. At my school, its either fail, pass, or honors (with honors going to the top 10% of grades on the bell curve). This week we had a radiology attending come in from a well known NYC area hospital and speak to students; according to him not only does Step 1 matter, so does pre-clinical grades, the SAT!! and how you did in high school!! Whats the deal, is he for real?!
Never respond directly when people ask you what your grade was. There are three appropriate responses: 1) Better than I expected; 2)Not as well as I hoped I would; 3) About what I expected. It is none of their business what your numerical or letter grade is. Likewise it's none of your business what your classmates got, and no good ever comes of comparing yourself to them. Yes people are lying, yes they are trying to intimidate you/get inside your head. Med students are psychopaths. Get used to it now.
 
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This attending is full of ****. How exactly are residency directors going to get a hold of your high school grades/SAT scores, and what would they do with them if the had them? "Well, this individual only got a 720 on verbal; clearly he/she is going to be a worse doctor than this individual, who got a 730." :laugh:
lol

He's probably just trying to make himself feel ever so special by making his field sound ultra-super-duper competitive. sad.
 

Kfire326

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aww, u need a hug hehe

look:

1) I guarantee you that not everyone is getting Honors in your class...the people that just "pass" or fail simply don't feel the need to advertise that fact, unlike the gunners in your class. Don't pay any attention to them
2) Pre-clinical grades have SOOO little (almost none at all) weight in deciding your residency
3)Just do the best you can, don't pay attention to those kids
2) Careful with this. Preclinical grades are 2/3 of what counts towards AOA and class rank (the other 1/3 being your required clerkships in MS3). Also, MS1/2 grades WILL be seen by residency programs, so it'd be nice to avoid 18 P's without any HP or H on there. But obviously you don't need to be crying yourself to sleep if you don't honor everything.

Focus on stuff in this order...
1. Kill Step 1
2. Did I forget to mention killing Step 1?
3. Keep up your health and sanity.
4. Learn all you can in the first two years so you can shine in third year.
...
X. Profit!
Agreed. In the end, MS3 grades (and especially written evaluations!!!) will count MUCH more than MS1/2, but ms1/2 grades are not disregarded completely like a lot of people think.

I'm not the one who asks people about grades. People are asking me. It seems like they need some type of self gratification telling someone that they scored higher then you! I'm not a liar and don't inflate my grades if someone asks, I would tell you what I got, not "around the 90s".
Exactly. What will end up happening, I'm sure, is those rocking every test will find out about each other and do one of two things. 1) they'll study together, become friends, and have a friendly competition on every exam (or not), all in good fun and healthy motivation, or 2) they will never talk to each other, dislike each other, and be secretly satisfied that they out-did the others if only they could find out their scores. Either way I think you'll be left out of it starting soon unless you join their ranks. And you'll probably have your share of your own tests you rock that you can ask them about and secretly be glad you did better than them.

I keep getting mixed reviews if pre-clinical grades matter or not. At my school, its either fail, pass, or honors (with honors going to the top 10% of grades on the bell curve). This week we had a radiology attending come in from a well known NYC area hospital and speak to students; according to him not only does Step 1 matter, so does pre-clinical grades, the SAT!! and how you did in high school!! Whats the deal, is he for real?!
lol what a douche.
 

Deferoxamine

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This thread is pure money.

Classmates are liars if they don't think you're cool enough.
And there, I've gone and fixed your thread title for you.




Note to Self: Don't stumble into SDN on a Friday Night.
 

WellWornLad

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OP, maybe you could do a scientific survey - take your samples and calculate the odds that everyone you sampled fell into that top 10%. If p < 0.05, you can call shenanigans on their collective null hypothesis and assert your alternative hypothesis: they are full of s&*t.

This week we had a radiology attending come in from a well known NYC area hospital and speak to students; according to him not only does Step 1 matter, so does pre-clinical grades, the SAT!! and how you did in high school!! Whats the deal, is he for real?!
Are you sure he wasn't kidding and that a roomful of neurotic med students took his comments at face value?

2) Careful with this. Preclinical grades are 2/3 of what counts towards AOA and class rank (the other 1/3 being your required clerkships in MS3).
AOA and class rank criteria differ by school. At mine, preclinical grades have nothing to do with either (except perhaps in some ridiculously borderline case).
 

ArcGurren

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People need to knock off this preclinical grade importance nonsense.

1. It's VERY variable depending on what type of residency/place you want to do it. Of course Harvard Derm is going to value them over SUNY Internal Medicine, because in order to apply to Derm you have to be an overqualified douche and there's little other basis for comparison.

2. The grading/quintile system at many schools is absolutely frakking terrible and makes no sense, and there can be huge differences between the guy who got 89.49 and 89.50 (assuming that's the barrier grade for HP/H) in terms of quintile but little in terms of actual grades. Some schools do it properly but many don't.

In conclusion stop worrying so much about grades. If you really really really want to do derm and it's your life passion sure go for it but otherwise you don't have to freak out.
 

chiz2kul

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yes classmates are liars. everyone freaks out about how omg they totally just bombed the test, and class average turns out to be 95%.

just stop asking, and do yo thang!
 

QofQuimica

Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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I'm not the one who asks people about grades. People are asking me. It seems like they need some type of self gratification telling someone that they scored higher then you! I'm not a liar and don't inflate my grades if someone asks, I would tell you what I got, not "around the 90s".
You know, just because someone asks you a question, it doesn't obligate you to answer it. I'm not saying you should go on a rampage and tell people off, but there's nothing wrong with politely saying that you'd rather talk about something else besides school in response to being asked about your grades.

Also, whats the point of asking me what I got for such and such question, you yourself don't know the answer, but you are sure that the answer I put down is wrong.
See above.

I keep getting mixed reviews if pre-clinical grades matter or not. At my school, its either fail, pass, or honors (with honors going to the top 10% of grades on the bell curve). This week we had a radiology attending come in from a well known NYC area hospital and speak to students; according to him not only does Step 1 matter, so does pre-clinical grades, the SAT!! and how you did in high school!! Whats the deal, is he for real?!
No, he's not. I've never heard of a residency program even asking for someone's MCAT score, let alone their SAT. (Maybe some program somewhere does ask for MCAT scores, but if so, it's definitely not the norm!) As far as grades are concerned, third year grades matter the most, hands down. Preclinical grades don't matter much at all unless your school uses them to determine AOA status. Look at it this way: many schools are P/F for the first two years. If preclinical grades mattered so much, the schools would be grading those classes!

OP, no one can force you to get caught up in the rat race unless you choose to get caught up. Just focus on doing the best you can in your classes, and stay away from the people who are stressing you out. If you refuse to play along with comparing grades, they'll stop asking you.
 

MossPoh

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You have to find the right people to hang with. That is what makes the difference. You're still early on in school, so you haven't established that group yet. I got down on myself all last year about grades because I kept hearing about how well people were doing and when they said they did "bad" it was usually an 85%+. I eventually learned that I was in the "smart learning community". (We are divided into 4 groups with our refridgerators, common areas, conference rooms, etc.)

One of the biggest things I did was establish friendships with hardworking people who didn't give a damn about grades. When grades were posted, they just ask something along the lines of "Are you happy with your grades?" rather than "What did you get?! Oh that sucks, I got a 98!". It makes all the difference in the world, seriously.
 
D

da8s0859q

People need to knock off this preclinical grade importance nonsense.

1. It's VERY variable depending on what type of residency/place you want to do it. Of course Harvard Derm is going to value them over SUNY Internal Medicine, because in order to apply to Derm you have to be an overqualified douche and there's little other basis for comparison.
:laugh:

You have to find the right people to hang with. That is what makes the difference.

...

One of the biggest things I did was establish friendships with hardworking people who didn't give a damn about grades. When grades were posted, they just ask something along the lines of "Are you happy with your grades?" rather than "What did you get?! Oh that sucks, I got a 98!". It makes all the difference in the world, seriously.
Agree totally. OP, avoid the hypercompetitive / hyperintense types -- their blabbering will do nothing but irritate you. I quickly became more at ease with this strange, strange world of med school -- and started scoring better on exams -- when I decided to stick to doing my own thing. I have classmates who obsess over nuances in lecture material and routinely pull all-nighters, which is fine if that's their thing, but their approach isn't inherently better or worse than anyone else's. It just works for them. I'm friends with those guys, but I don't study with them, and my class in general doesn't talk too much about grades outside of small groups here and there.
 

Melicopter

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Never respond directly when people ask you what your grade was. There are three appropriate responses: 1) Better than I expected; 2)Not as well as I hoped I would; 3) About what I expected. It is none of their business what your numerical or letter grade is. Likewise it's none of your business what your classmates got, and no good ever comes of comparing yourself to them. Yes people are lying, yes they are trying to intimidate you/get inside your head. Med students are psychopaths. Get used to it now.
This is exactly right. I even ask my friends about how the test went for them. I don't want to know their score. It's none of my business and I hope they don't tell me. Fortunately, they're smart enough to either say it was better, worse, or about what they expected. That's it. Then we can either be happy that we did better than expected or sad that we need to fix something, and move on.

If people insist on tell you numbers - who cares? You'll do better in some classes and worse in others. Also they might be lying. Either way - who cares? Oh, except you should keep track of the ones you think are lying now (or bragging - bad sign too) and try not to trust them later. As in, don't ask them any important questions. :cool:
 

ArcGurren

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:laugh:



Agree totally. OP, avoid the hypercompetitive / hyperintense types -- their blabbering will do nothing but irritate you. I quickly became more at ease with this strange, strange world of med school -- and started scoring better on exams -- when I decided to stick to doing my own thing. I have classmates who obsess over nuances in lecture material and routinely pull all-nighters, which is fine if that's their thing, but their approach isn't inherently better or worse than anyone else's. It just works for them. I'm friends with those guys, but I don't study with them, and my class in general doesn't talk too much about grades outside of small groups here and there.
Lol, might have gone a bit overboard with the language in my post :p I don't disrespect dermatologists, I just submit that they are in their profession of choice purely because of lifestyle and probably not because they like it.

I agree - I generally do well above the average (HP/H) and I don't need to compare grades to validate it, and I certainly don't pull all-nighters and memorizing little nuances and random ****.
 

Charles_Carmichael

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As far as grades are concerned, third year grades matter the most, hands down. Preclinical grades don't matter much at all unless your school uses them to determine AOA status. Look at it this way: many schools are P/F for the first two years. If preclinical grades mattered so much, the schools would be grading those classes!
But that doesn't seem to be true though, at least from what I've gathered. There are very few schools that are truly P/F (Yale is one that pops into mind). Most P/F schools seem to keep an internal ranking, even in the P/F classes, that does show up on your Dean's letter (ie. usually something like "Top quartile" rather than a pure rank). So it would appear that most of the P/F schools are grading those classes, even though they don't outright tell you. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.
 

hot sauce

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It is always amusing when people act like if you are in the middle of the class you won't be able to land a residency. You might not be able to get an ultra competitive field (but you still might be able to - certainly first year grades alone don't take you out of the running) but you will clearly be able to get a residency. Do half of US medical school graduates not have jobs? I don't think so.
 

ArcGurren

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It is always amusing when people act like if you are in the middle of the class you won't be able to land a residency. You might not be able to get an ultra competitive field (but you still might be able to - certainly first year grades alone don't take you out of the running) but you will clearly be able to get a residency. Do half of US medical school graduates not have jobs? I don't think so.
Eh, for a lot of people on SDN i think that alone constitutes "failure", not getting the top residency of choice, but those who boast are the ones who speak the loudest, so...
 

christina30

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Hey everyone,

Currently a MS1 at a NY school. We just finished our first system a couple of weeks ago. Honors is top 10% of class, with a overall average of 91% getting the H. I got an 85% in the overall system and apparently Im the only stupid one in my class who "just" recieved a Pass. Every single student I have spoken to tells me that they recieved honors, I have not met anyone else who earned "just" a pass. And apparently, "just a pass" will kill all your chances of landing even any residency!

Im usually a middle of the road type of guy. I know Im not the brighest, but I feel like Im at the bottom of my class. We just had an exam this past Monday. Everybody was talking about how hard the exam was and even the faculty acknowledged it was a very difficult exam. Anyway, I recieved an 80% on the test and was happy because I feel that I did very well because everyone else was telling me they "bombed" the test. The day after the answer key was posted, people as usual were talking about the exam and several students tell me "yeah I did pretty bad, a lot worse then I had hoped, I got a 90." I just want to scream!! Is it possible that my measly 80 can possibly be the lowest, or are all these people just inflating their scores?

A final rant, we are introduced to patient interaction during our first year. I saw how some of these students interact with patients and Im sorry to say its horrible! Im no superstar but a lot of the students are so "cold" when they are talking to patients, no emotion at all! I thought practicing medicine was an art, that requires compassion and caring about the patient, at least thats why I went into medicine.

I guess I was just having a bad day, anyone else feel the way I do?
95% positive we go to the same school, also an MS1 here - don't believe what those idiots tell you about their grades, especially re: this last exam. Trust me.

Most of the people who got honors last block are the ones who ended up with 70's on this exam - that's what I've been hearing.
 

QofQuimica

Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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But that doesn't seem to be true though, at least from what I've gathered. There are very few schools that are truly P/F (Yale is one that pops into mind). Most P/F schools seem to keep an internal ranking, even in the P/F classes, that does show up on your Dean's letter (ie. usually something like "Top quartile" rather than a pure rank). So it would appear that most of the P/F schools are grading those classes, even though they don't outright tell you. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.
Yes, the school does keep track of your performance, but that's not the same thing as giving you grades. At a med school with preclinical P/F, no grades will show up on your transcript, and you won't ever be handed back an exam that says, "A+ and gold star for you, Kaushik!" Again, the purpose of the preclinical ranking is for AOA and dean's letters. They aren't giving you test or class grades like what you're used to in college, and more importantly, the residency PDs won't see a list of your preclinical grades on your transcript. All they'll see is "pass." Whereas, your third year grades will most certainly show up on your transcript, so the PDs will know, for example, that you got honors in OB/gyn but only pass in IM. And those are the stats they care about, along with your USMLE scores.

The main point I was making is that even if schools do report preclinical grades, they aren't very important in the decision making process unless you're failing your classes.
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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I skipped through a couple posts so sorry if this is a repeat of what anyone else said...

OP, it's really hard, but try not to compare your grades with others. I see med school kind of how golf works... you're competing against others to get certain positions (residency), but along the way, you have to compete against yourself and work on bettering your scores.

I don't tend to ask how others did because I know people will overexaggerate to save face. No one wants to tell everyone that they were the lowest-scorer on an exam, and some even feel uncomfortable with a passing score that just missed the honors mark!

If you're really concerned with how you're doing, maybe your dean has a histogram of exam scores. Our school posts those with our exams so we know how we did relative to the rest of the class. Some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug. But for M2, many more are windshields than in M1, so take heart.
 

RySerr21

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That's a myth. Many schools incorporate pre-clinical grades into class rank and AOA, which do matter. Not to mention your pre-clinical knowledge serves as the base for doing well on step 1.

Good test grade in med school does not equate to solid knowledge base.