Cleveland Clinic Announces Integrated Program, Will be in 2012 Match

[ccffellow]

Cleveland Clinic has recently been approved for an integrated plastic surgery program and will be entering the 2012 match.

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[kidcuttie]

Could you please give more info on the program? It's not on the website.

How many spots? How many years?
Are the backfilling?
What will the program curriculum look like? - will residents have protected time to attend PRS conference, M&M, etc?
Are the going to still add fellows?

 

[jenniferp]

Dear Interested applicants:

I am attending at CCF.

The program has been in existance for decades as an Independent program. We are in the first year of converting an integrated program. Thus instead of backfilling we will continue to take independent residents until we are filled with integrated ones.

Besides being #4 hospital in the US, one can see from the US News article on the best hospitals we boast one the largest overall surgical volumes . This means we have a huge volume that leads to many plastic surgery cases.

The program has 16 full time faculty members on the main campus alone and continues to expand.

Faculty are expected to be invested in resident and fellow training and this is major focus and mission of this program.

From research to surgical volume (both cosmetic and reconstructive) to education, CCF continues to be one of the top plastic surgery programs in the US.

Good luck with your applications, we are on ERAS!

 

[plas]

Spots: 2
Backfilling: No
Curriculum: All aspects of plastic surgery - true integrated program - 1st 3 years with a mix of plastics and other specialties as outlined by the RRC. Most time (90%) is at the main campus but some rotations are at nearby hospitals.
Conferences: during the first year, introduction to surgery with simulations will be the main conferences. 2-6 will be with PRS conferences whenever possible (protected time)
As far as fellows go, our independent program will be phased out as the integrated program is phased in.
Hope that answers your questions.

 

[Airplanepeanuts]

It seems like it may be more of a combined program which would not be that awesome. but the fact the they are late into the match means perhaps there will be less competition.

I wonder when they will interview given that most weekends are already taken up in jan. Perhaps early Feb??

 

[plas]

Hi All,

As we were late to the game due to waiting for final word from our RRC, I hope I can clarify some information for you:

We will be as integrated as the RRC allows (all programs have required outside rotations that are related to plastic surgery education). While on the non-plastic surgery rotations, our residients will participate in our conferences whenever possible. For the 3rd year, 75% of the time will be on the plastic surgery services and years 4-6 are all plastic surgery or directly related (such as ENT facial plastics, Ortho hand service, Oral surgery).

 

[Stare Decisis]

It seems like it may be more of a combined program which would not be that awesome. but the fact the they are late into the match means perhaps there will be less competition.

I wonder when they will interview given that most weekends are already taken up in jan. Perhaps early Feb??

I suggest you really try to attend a program that offers the most plastic surgery as early on as possible. Attending conferences can be a real challenge when you are running between gen surg and plastics but are expected to be well read for conference. In talking to my fellow PRS residents the ones that enjoy their lives the most are doing plastics early on. Any general surgery after year 2 would be combined in my mind, especially considering the RRC have a mandate for all programs to become integrated on paper. General Surgery is a total waste and less you can do then the better. There are several programs that do this very well and in my mind are the strongest from an educational perspective.

 

[Airplanepeanuts]

. There are several programs that do this very well and in my mind are the strongest from an educational perspective.

What programs do u suggest?

 

[Stare Decisis]

What programs do u suggest?

I saw this coming. Well, without attempting to give a comprehensive list here are several programs that have a great reputation for being PRS focused early on (in no specific order):
1. Hopkins
2. Michigan
3 UTSW
4. USF (not a household name but the residents are crazy happy)
5 Georgetown

These programs are not perfect, no program is, but IMHO they have limited some of meaningless gensurg. Especially Hopkins and UTSW.

 

[DrDrToBe]

I saw this coming. Well, without attempting to give a comprehensive list here are several programs that have a great reputation for being PRS focused early on (in no specific order):
1. Hopkins
2. Michigan
3 UTSW
4. USF (not a household name but the residents are crazy happy)
5 Georgetown

These programs are not perfect, no program is, but IMHO they have limited some of meaningless gensurg. Especially Hopkins and UTSW.

Meaningless gen surg, huh. I was thinking it would be better to have more gen surg early on because it helps you be more well rounded. Am I wrong? What are the disadvantages to having a program that's gen surg heavy in the beginning?

 

[Stare Decisis]

Meaningless gen surg, huh. I was thinking it would be better to have more gen surg early on because it helps you be more well rounded. Am I wrong? What are the disadvantages to having a program that's gen surg heavy in the beginning?

General Surgery is not meaningless for general surgery residents, but of questionable utility for plastic surgeon. The disadvantages are numerous, but I will only mention a couple:

1. The OR time that you have will be heavy in Lap procedures which doesn't translate well to the average PRS practice
2. The patient acuity on those services is quite different for the typical plastic surgery patient. I will say this, general surgery makes you a better doctor but it does not necessarily make you a better plastic surgeon. I also think this would be true if you were going into Ortho, ENT, or Urology but try telling those guys they need 2-3 years of general surgery
3. As a plastics resident you will be a second class citizen, let's be honest people tend to take care of their own. It is not a bad thing but it can get a little old
4. The philosophy is quite different, Rohrich always said that he got tired of "deprogramming" his residents after they spent significant time on general surgery
5. Many residents feel that the "growth" that occurs during general surgery occurs in the last 2 years and as an integrated resident you miss out on that growth spurt. Essentially you have done the paperwork for the first couple years but left before the real operating experience begins. Although keep in mind that most of the general surgeons I have worked with are not the general surgeons of old, and usually highly specialized.

In the end, Gensurg needs warm bodies and that is where plastics residents come in. In the end I want to do plastic surgery so it makes sense to do that by managing those patients, doing those procedures, and reading the literature. I personally think high reps count for something.

Question: How did you think gen surg would benefit? How much time do you think needs to be invested to reap that/those benefits?

 

[Airplanepeanuts]

Do you think this may change with new Chairman at Johns Hopkins? Do you foresee an increased emphasis on Research ? Also do you think that with JHU being turned into a Department... they will no longer be affiliated with the University of Maryland?

Also you mentioned happiness at USF - how about at UTSW and JHU?

I saw this coming. Well, without attempting to give a comprehensive list here are several programs that have a great reputation for being PRS focused early on (in no specific order):
1. Hopkins
2. Michigan
3 UTSW
4. USF (not a household name but the residents are crazy happy)
5 Georgetown

These programs are not perfect, no program is, but IMHO they have limited some of meaningless gensurg. Especially Hopkins and UTSW.

 

[Stare Decisis]

Do you think this may change with new Chairman at Johns Hopkins? Do you foresee an increased emphasis on Research ? Also do you think that with JHU being turned into a Department... they will no longer be affiliated with the University of Maryland?

Also you mentioned happiness at USF - how about at UTSW and JHU?

If anything, Andy Lee will push Hopkins to be more Prs focused with a larger clinical volume. I heard this is already happening and they do very little gensurg. JHU is truly a top program as of recently from what I hear. The residents seem to be happy but with the increased clinical volume and longer work hours some are getting used to the new regime. UTSW is an amazing program, but it is not known for having the happiest residents, feel free to peruse SDN to get more details, they will give you a good idea about UTSW.

Keep in mind that all programs have some misery, except for Stanford, I heard those guys ride to work on rainbows. Just joking, did not interview there but I heard the place is crazy
chill; but shorter hours usually means less operating. A yin to every yang

 

[Airplanepeanuts]

How many applicants are you interviewing for the 2 spots?

Spots: 2
Backfilling: No
Curriculum: All aspects of plastic surgery - true integrated program - 1st 3 years with a mix of plastics and other specialties as outlined by the RRC. Most time (90%) is at the main campus but some rotations are at nearby hospitals.
Conferences: during the first year, introduction to surgery with simulations will be the main conferences. 2-6 will be with PRS conferences whenever possible (protected time)
As far as fellows go, our independent program will be phased out as the integrated program is phased in.
Hope that answers your questions.