Clinical Doctoral Program Admissions 2016-2024

[RxPsych]

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[R. Matey]

Makes sense. One thing that immediately jumped out at me is this person failed to differentiate school and counseling psych programs, many of latter are located in a school of ed. School psych has historically had a much higher acceptance rate than counseling psych.

 

[psych.meout]

Makes sense. One thing that immediately jumped out at me is this person failed to differentiate school and counseling psych programs, many of latter are located in a school of ed. School psych has historically had a much higher acceptance rate than counseling psych.

Look at their pinned post. They did a "study" on institution prestige using US News & World Report rankings.

 

[R. Matey]

Look at their pinned post. They did a "study" on institution prestige using US News & World Report rankings.

If you're referencing Reddit, I'll take your word for it. I deleted my account after they stopped supporting Apollo.

ETA: unsurprised to learn that this person is an outsider though given that few, if any, PhDs in clinical psychology are housed in Schools of Ed.

 

[The Cinnabon]

If you're referencing Reddit, I'll take your word for it. I deleted my account after they stopped supporting Apollo.

They meant on X, I just looked it up myself.

It's not shocking imo. Prestigious programs tend to attract a larger volume of applicants which gives PIs access to students who are more likely, and inclined, to go into academia.

I do wonder how us counseling psychology folks fare when attaining faculty jobs compared to our clinical colleagues, but I also don't care enough to bother wondering about it that much. I've long since made peace that my institution isn't going to turn any heads (brick and mortar state school), but a good CV just might.

 

[psych.meout]

If you're referencing Reddit, I'll take your word for it. I deleted my account after they stopped supporting Apollo.

ETA: unsurprised to learn that this person is an outsider though given that few, if any, PhDs in clinical psychology departments are housed in Schools of Ed.

I'm referring to their Twitter account.



Looks like they are a first year clinical psych PhD student at U of L.

 

[R. Matey]

I do wonder how us counseling psychology folks fare when attaining faculty jobs compared to our clinical colleagues, but I also don't care enough to bother wondering about it that much. I've long since made peace that my institution isn't going to turn any heads (brick and mortar state school), but a good CV just might.

Not on X either. I don't really do much in the way of social media these days. Just chat with a few groups.

To the quoted, the overall group sizes and variance within clinical psychology makes it a more difficult comparison (i.e., there are fewer counseling/school psych Psy.D. programs than clinical psych Psy.D. programs even if you transform them into ratios). @MCParent might know more about this than I do, but one of the former directors of that TD association for counseling psych told me semi-recently something like 95% of graduates end up being clinicians.

 

[WisNeuro]

These numbers are always taken out of context, unfortunately. Everyone sees the ~5ish% match rates for clinical PhDs and thinks they're rolling a d20 to get in with a perfect 20 no matter their background. The truth is, a good half of those applications are garbage. They get thrown out right off the bat. Out of the half remaining, a good third to another half are actually good applicants on paper, they just have a poor fit for that specific program. What's left over is the real applicant pool.

 

[psych.meout]

These numbers are always taken out of context, unfortunately. Everyone sees the ~5ish% match rates for clinical PhDs and thinks they're rolling a d20 to get in with a perfect 20 no matter their background. The truth is, a good half of those applications are garbage. They get thrown out right off the bat. Out of the half remaining, a good third to another half are actually good applicants on paper, they just have a poor fit for that specific program. What's left over is the real applicant pool.

Exactly. So many prospective grad students either don't know this or misunderstand this information. In particular, some of the latter don't understand which of those three groups they actually fit into and erroneously believe that they are both good applicants and have good fits with the programs that they're applying to (e.g., applying based on geography and having a superficial research and career goals match).

 

[The Cinnabon]

Not on X either. I don't really do much in the way of social media these days. Just chat with a few groups.

To the quoted, the overall group sizes and variance within clinical psychology makes it a more difficult comparison (i.e., there are fewer counseling/school psych Psy.D. programs than clinical psych Psy.D. programs even if you transform them into ratios). @MCParent might know more about this than I do, but one of the former directors of that TD association for counseling psych told me semi-recently something like 95% of graduates end up being clinicians.

I know that number is similar in clinical and ... yeah. Academia seems like a tough pill to swallow if you want to live somewhere interesting, value limiting working hours, and/or want to make decent money. I know these things can be done in academia, but as someone with hobbies and a social circle ... academia seems like a very tough pill to swallow compared to alternatives.

 

[MCParent]

Not on X either. I don't really do much in the way of social media these days. Just chat with a few groups.

To the quoted, the overall group sizes and variance within clinical psychology makes it a more difficult comparison (i.e., there are fewer counseling/school psych Psy.D. programs than clinical psych Psy.D. programs even if you transform them into ratios). @MCParent might know more about this than I do, but one of the former directors of that TD association for counseling psych told me semi-recently something like 95% of graduates end up being clinicians.

I don’t have the data unfortunately. All my students became research informed clinicians as one data point 🙂 but I also have counseling psych friends who are faculty in clinical, medical, and nursing programs. I think research emphasis and productivity is more of a determinant than degree type.

 

[R. Matey]

I know that number is similar in clinical and ... yeah. Academia seems like a tough pill to swallow if you want to live somewhere interesting, value limiting working hours, and/or want to make decent money. I know these things can be done in academia, but as someone with hobbies and a social circle ... academia seems like a very tough pill to swallow compared to alternatives.

Yeah, I mean it really depends on what you want ultimately and what options are the most available to you. Plus, licensure opens up many career opportunities unavailable to other PhDs at similar starting salaries. It wasn't until my academic postdoc at the AMC, that I realized how good we have it compared to those in neuroscience, genetics, and non-licensable psych subfields where PhD bloat is a far bigger issue.

 

[RxPsych]

These numbers are always taken out of context, unfortunately. Everyone sees the ~5ish% match rates for clinical PhDs and thinks they're rolling a d20 to get in with a perfect 20 no matter their background. The truth is, a good half of those applications are garbage. They get thrown out right off the bat. Out of the half remaining, a good third to another half are actually good applicants on paper, they just have a poor fit for that specific program. What's left over is the real applicant pool.

I think these statistics are worth pointing out to undergrads that may be interested in pursuing this career path, though. Of course with the caveat you provided.

 

[The Cinnabon]

Yeah, I mean it really depends on what you want ultimately and what options are the most available to you. Plus, licensure opens up many career opportunities unavailable to other PhDs at similar starting salaries. It wasn't until my academic postdoc at the AMC, that I realized how good we have it compared to those in neuroscience, genetics, and non-licensable psych subfields where PhD bloat is a far bigger issue.

I'm so glad I went down the license eligible PhD-route compared to not. Although I have told my mentor that my goal is to have a CV competitive for academia should I want to pursue that after my PhD, it's a massive relief knowing I could close the door on that path with minimal risk. There are just some tough pills with the lifestyle that I don't know if I could swallow in my early 30's.

 

[WisNeuro]

I think these statistics are worth pointing out to undergrads that may be interested in pursuing this career path, though. Of course with the caveat you provided.

Oh, I think it's worth having these stats, but they also need someone who is in the field to explain the process and what the numbers actually mean. People could save a lot of time and money by becoming more knowledgeable before they begin the application process,

 

[R. Matey]

I'm so glad I went down the license eligible PhD-route compared to not. Although I have told my mentor that my goal is to have a CV competitive for academia should I want to pursue that after my PhD, it's a massive relief knowing I could close the door on that path with minimal risk. There are just some tough pills with the lifestyle that I don't know if I could swallow in my early 30's.

Keeping your options open is always wise and I truly believe that the process of actually writing and publishing papers is necessary for being a research-informed clinician. I'm mostly clinical these days, but am still very glad I took the time to develop a competitive CV between grad school and postdoc.

 

[WisNeuro]

Keeping your options open is always wise and I truly believe that the process of actually writing and publishing papers is necessary for being a research-informed clinician. I'm mostly clinical these days, but am still very glad I took the time to develop a competitive CV between grad school and postdoc.

Always my advice to students. Get enough depth in your niche to be an expert, but enough breadth to pivot to multiple career paths.

 

[MCParent]

I think these statistics are worth pointing out to undergrads that may be interested in pursuing this career path, though. Of course with the caveat you provided.

“Those stats won’t apply to me because I’m going to work hard.”

 

[WisNeuro]

“Those stats won’t apply to me because I’m going to work hard.”

"I went to a public Ivy, I'll get offers at most places."

 

[psych.meout]

"I went to a public Ivy, I'll get offers at most places."

Love all the posts about how they went to a "pretigious undergrad."

 

[WisNeuro]

Love all the posts about how they went to a "pretigious undergrad."

We had an Ivy applicant once, who looked great on paper, but was one of the most abhorrent people I've ever met in person on interview day. He name dropped his college about 50 times during the day (not exaggerating), and asked questions, then interrupted the person answering and answered it himself throughout the day. The grad students told the faculty very clearly that if they admitted him, none of us would work with him in any capacity.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

We had an Ivy applicant once, who looked great on paper, but was one of the most abhorrent people I've ever met in person on interview day. He name dropped his college about 50 times during the day (not exaggerating), and asked questions, then interrupted the person answering and answered it himself throughout the day. The grad students told the faculty very clearly that if they admitted him, none of us would work with him in any capacity.

My program accepted an applicant from an Ivy PRIOR to the interview. Then they interviewed this person and realized their mistake. The person was experiencing significant psychiatric and interpersonal issues and eventually was asked to leave the program.

 

[R. Matey]

My program accepted an applicant from an Ivy PRIOR to the interview. Then they interviewed this person and realized their mistake. The person was experiencing significant psychiatric and interpersonal issues and eventually was asked to leave the program.

That is spectacularly dumb, but also says quite a bit about academia.

We also had an Ivy person in our program during my time there. They were a nice person, but no more exceptional than anyone else.