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As a current medical student, it pains me to see the effort that people put into the ECs arms race as pre-meds. People don't quite realize that once they start medical school, they will no longer have time to do the things they once enjoyed. One thing that a lot of pre-meds do is entry-level clinical jobs, which includes positions like: EMT, scribe, CNA, phlebotomist, ED tech, etc... While it is nice to be paid money, I don't think that pre-meds realize the big picture. I see threads pop up from time to time regarding entry-level clinical jobs, and wanted to give you my take on why I don't think that they are worth doing.
Reason #1: Raise your hand if...
In one of our first clinical medicine classes, the instructor asked all of the students who worked in clinical positions to raise your hands. As you might have guessed, a good number of people in the class raised their hands. He asked a few of them what they did, and as he went around the room, people were saying the exact positions that I mentioned above, and those that you see people doing all over SDN. Therefore, if you believe that working an entry-level clinical job is going to set you apart from the rest, then you're mistaken. If you think an ADCOM is going to say: "Oh my goodness! This person was an EMT!" Then you're probably once again wrong. ADCOMs see all of these entry-level clinical positions over and over again.
Therefore, if you're trying to make your application look great, then you'll most likely end up putting in far more effort than what you end up getting as a result. Since clinical jobs are so commonly done among pre-meds, you're not going to nail that "uniqueness" card. Sure you might have stories to put on your PS, but volunteering for 100+ hours in an ED can give you those very same things.
Reason #2: These skills will make me a better physician! Right?
In this very same class, the instructor asked two former EMTs to come down and take a student's blood pressure and respiration rate. They were able to do this, while the people who did not have clinical jobs as pre-meds had no idea what they were doing. But once we went into lab, every single person in class knew how to take blood pressure and take a person's respiration rate. Therefore, you will learn basic skills in an entry-level clinical job. But at the same time, you will learn everything from step one in medical school! Unlike PA schools which use a fast-track approach to learning, medical school starts you off at the very beginning. So ultimately, while the formerly employed students had certain skill sets that others lacked, the people who never had clinical work experience before quickly caught up within a class or two. Therefore, the people who had previous experience didn't have much of an advantage in the grand scheme of things.
Secondly, a lot of the things you learn at an entry-level clinical job are not the types of things that you would do on a day to day basis as a physician. You're just spending a lot of time learning things that will likely end up being irrelevant to what you're expected to do as a medical student and beyond. Of course you hear of scribes saying that they learn all of these great things on the job, but don't worry, you'll need to learn everything in great detail in medical school anyhow.
Trust me when I say that medical school will not leave anyone behind. Which leads me to my third point...
Reason #3: ADCOMs want you to know what the environment is like...
ADCOMs on this website have stated that they want you to know what you are getting yourself into, and don't necessarily expect you to learn a specific skill set. Think about it, if specific skills from jobs were necessary to be successful in medical school, then wouldn't they be required? Instead, we see that simply doing clinical volunteer work is enough to satisfy their requirement for clinical experience. Also, even if entry-level clinical jobs were truly a great help, then it would be heavily emphasized on this website. But we just see people saying that they found their experiences "rewarding," but did not correlate this with their success in medical school.
A good analogy is someone who aspires to become an airline pilot starts working as a baggage handler. Sure you can see the environment close-up, but that doesn't translate into anything directly useful.
Reason #4: Sure you get paid but it's a lot of work (and not much money).
I'm sure that a lot of people are happy to be paid. Who wouldn't want to get paid? Unfortunately, what a lot of people don't understand is that even though it's nice to be paid, you might end up sacrificing your grades and MCAT score, which you can't put a price on! If you made an extra $3,000 but suffered lower grades as a result (which prevented you from getting into medical school), then was it really worth working this job? The money you receive from this job, while nice to have, is chump change compared to your future earnings as a physician. You can make more money and work more flexible schedules with service industry jobs like waitressing, pizza delivery, etc. But ultimately, your grades and MCAT come first. If you end up screwing those up, then an entry-level clinical job that just about everyone and their mother does will not make up for your bad grades and or MCAT score.
So please don't be tempted by the money you'd receive. It might seem like a lot now, but it's not at all compared to your potential future earnings as a physician. It's also not worth sacrificing grades, your MCAT, or your free time as a result.
Reason #5: Jewish children are considered ADULTS at 13 years old.
According to Jewish law, Jewish children become adults when they are 13 years old. Boys have a special ceremony called a Bar Mitzvah, while girls have a special ceremony called a Bat Mitzvah.
Now you might be asking me, "Planes2Doc, what does a Jewish ceremony have to do with entry-level clinical jobs?!"
Well I'm glad you've asked, because this will explain the next part of my argument. You often see people saying how they were able to witness and do incredible things at their entry-level clinical jobs. I remember LizzyM posted a thread a while back talking about some of the "amazing" experiences that pre-meds had working entry-level clinical jobs. People are always using this as their best argument toward working entry-level clinical jobs.
I think it's great that people are able to experience these things. I am in no way trying to downplay them or say that they are meaningless, because that is far from it. But let's look at this from the perspective of Jewish children turning thirteen years old. Whether you're Jewish or not, I'm sure you probably have a good idea about what boys and girls do at that age. I remember when I was 13, I used to play video games, go outside, and do a lot of other fun things with my best friends. I don't exactly know what girls that age do, but if you're a girl, I'm sure you know. But one thing you don't see these thirteen year olds doing is working jobs. So even though they are considered adults according to Jewish law, shouldn't these kids be working jobs then? Even if you're Jewish, you have no expectation that these thirteen year olds should be working and getting significant work experience to put on their resume. Instead, what do we expect them to do? Well, if I were to see thirteen year olds, I would expect them to spend their time with friends, playing games, and doing other things that we expect people in that age group to do. Therefore, should we believe that they are missing out on those experiences that working adults do after they've started their careers after finishing college?
I view pre-meds the same exact way. Just as we expect thirteen year olds to do certain things, we also expect college undergraduates to do things to. I expect them to study, spend time with friends, and party. Isn't this what college is about? Every time I've visited friends on college campuses, people would be going to bars and partying it up on weekends. You don't see a large number of college students either working significant work hours at a job (typically) or ladling soup at a soup kitchen on weekends. Yet, pre-meds seem to take up a lot of work and ECs that other people wouldn't do.
Therefore, when someone says that you'll miss out on these "amazing" things by not working an entry-level clinical job, I can counter their argument by saying that as a future physician, YOU WILL HAVE THE REST OF YOUR LIFE TO DO THIS IN YOUR FUTURE. Sure you might see some amazing things, like life and death experiences or what not, but is this what you should really be spending all your time with at your age? Should college students really be working as an EMT, scribe, or CNA instead of partying and going out with friends? I don't see why anyone should be criticized for doing the latter. College students are expected to do these things, just like thirteen year olds even though Jewish children are considered "adults" at that age. Are thirteen year old Jewish people missing out on clinical experiences because they aren't working these jobs? Well, if that question sounds silly, then why does it sound fine asking if a college student should be doing all of those things? We shouldn't expect a college student to necessarily do all of these things so early on. There's a time and place for everything. Considering the sacrifices that they will make on becoming a physician, I'm sure that they will have many decades ahead to experience all of these things plus more.
In the meantime, why not let college students be college students, just like thirteen year olds are still thirteen years? There's plenty of time for all that serious stuff later.![Wink ;) ;)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
Reason #6: Clinical volunteering is the BEST thing you can ever do as a pre-med.
At this point you must be asking, "Seriously? Did Planes2Doc just say that clinical volunteering is a great thing? Has he lost his mind?!"
Well, as I've said in other threads, I think that as far as mandatory ECs go, clinical volunteering is the absolute best since you can kill up to four birds with one stone, while only having a once per week commitment of a few hours compared to multiple shifts as an actual paid employee.
First of all, since ADCOMs want you to get accustomed to the clinical environment and not necessarily learn specific skills, you're doing just that as a clinical volunteer. Yet unlike entry-level clinical jobs, you're only expected to come in once a week for three or four hours at a time. This will provide you with enough free time to study for classes, study for the MCAT, and have more free time do things you're seriously passionate about. It kind of sucks to do unpaid labor, but you usually need to pay for conveniences in life and clinical volunteering is no exception. I would much rather have the free time to do the things I need to do without getting paid, versus getting pocket change and having to make numerous sacrifices.
Secondly, if you're not really the volunteering type, then clinical volunteering will also fulfill the unwritten "altruism" requirement that ADCOMs expect you to do. This is what LizzyM and other people refer to as killing two birds with one stone, where you can check off the box for clinical experience plus volunteering. It seems that the volunteer experiences that are worth doing are usually sporadic, and therefore you can piggyback them on the clinical volunteering. This is what I did, since I actually loved my non-clinical volunteer work. But I didn't want to come off as a selfish bastard by only volunteering once every few months, so the clinical volunteering was helpful.![Roll eyes :rolleyes: :rolleyes:](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
Thirdly, if you're simply going through the motions and checking off the box for the sake of medical school admissions, then you can still be productive while volunteering at a "crappy" place. Unlike at a paid job, you can probably spend the your time studying material or doing personal things. A lot of hospital volunteers end up doing this because there usually isn't much to do, and they are ignored by staff. Since you're ultimately there to have a verifiable experience for ADCOMs, it doesn't really matter what you do, as long as you can verify what you did.
Remember, hospital volunteering is like Vegas, minus 99% of the fun. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, same with hospital volunteering.
Doing homework, studying for the MCAT, or just surfing Facebook would typically not fly at a clinical job. But it's usually a given for countless pre-med volunteers across this great country of ours.
Lastly, if you get to know physicians at your volunteer site, you can probably end up shadowing them during your volunteer shift. Therefore, if you have no moral objections, you can technically stack your shadowing hours on top of those volunteer hours. So you get yet another bonus. Once again, shadowing would likely not fly at a clinical job. I believe that with scribing you can get away without shadowing, but once again, you are working many hours per week over numerous shifts which I have mentioned before.
With all of these contentions, you can see that clinical volunteering is definitely the way to go as a pre-med. Sure it sucks to not be paid, but you only show up once a week for a few hours, and can probably do your own thing as well since ADCOMs will not end up verifying your actual performance at the volunteer site.
I would also like to mention that if you work a clinical job, you still need to volunteer in order to fulfill that unwritten requirement. This means working yet more hours on top of the numerous you would already work at your clinical job. It can be difficult to juggle so many things as a pre-med!
Final Thoughts
I hope this has showed you some reasons as to why you shouldn't work an entry-level clinical job. As a pre-med, you're already expected to do so much. Is it really worth doing an entry-level clinical job? As you can see, it won't set you apart from the rest since ADCOMs see so many pre-meds doing this. The money you receive is pocket change compared to future earnings. The numerous shifts and hours you work per week might end up hurting your grades, MCAT, or simply bite into that last bit of free time that you have left until you start medical school.
Finally, you always hear about people saying how they experienced all of these amazing things at their entry-level clinical jobs. It's great and all, but there's time for that. As a physician, you'll have an entire lifetime to experience these things and so much more. As a college student, shouldn't you spend the best years of your life with friends and doing the things college students are usually passionate about? Of course. We should expect college kids to be college kids, the same way we expect Jewish 13 year olds to be like 13 year olds.
You only live once, and college should be the best time of your life. It shouldn't be about getting ahead of yourself and missing out on things, because you'll have plenty of time to do all that later. Just do what you need to do. Get good grades, have fun, and good luck!![Luckie :luck: :luck:](/smilies/cloversmile.gif)
Reason #1: Raise your hand if...
In one of our first clinical medicine classes, the instructor asked all of the students who worked in clinical positions to raise your hands. As you might have guessed, a good number of people in the class raised their hands. He asked a few of them what they did, and as he went around the room, people were saying the exact positions that I mentioned above, and those that you see people doing all over SDN. Therefore, if you believe that working an entry-level clinical job is going to set you apart from the rest, then you're mistaken. If you think an ADCOM is going to say: "Oh my goodness! This person was an EMT!" Then you're probably once again wrong. ADCOMs see all of these entry-level clinical positions over and over again.
Therefore, if you're trying to make your application look great, then you'll most likely end up putting in far more effort than what you end up getting as a result. Since clinical jobs are so commonly done among pre-meds, you're not going to nail that "uniqueness" card. Sure you might have stories to put on your PS, but volunteering for 100+ hours in an ED can give you those very same things.
Reason #2: These skills will make me a better physician! Right?
In this very same class, the instructor asked two former EMTs to come down and take a student's blood pressure and respiration rate. They were able to do this, while the people who did not have clinical jobs as pre-meds had no idea what they were doing. But once we went into lab, every single person in class knew how to take blood pressure and take a person's respiration rate. Therefore, you will learn basic skills in an entry-level clinical job. But at the same time, you will learn everything from step one in medical school! Unlike PA schools which use a fast-track approach to learning, medical school starts you off at the very beginning. So ultimately, while the formerly employed students had certain skill sets that others lacked, the people who never had clinical work experience before quickly caught up within a class or two. Therefore, the people who had previous experience didn't have much of an advantage in the grand scheme of things.
Secondly, a lot of the things you learn at an entry-level clinical job are not the types of things that you would do on a day to day basis as a physician. You're just spending a lot of time learning things that will likely end up being irrelevant to what you're expected to do as a medical student and beyond. Of course you hear of scribes saying that they learn all of these great things on the job, but don't worry, you'll need to learn everything in great detail in medical school anyhow.
Trust me when I say that medical school will not leave anyone behind. Which leads me to my third point...
Reason #3: ADCOMs want you to know what the environment is like...
ADCOMs on this website have stated that they want you to know what you are getting yourself into, and don't necessarily expect you to learn a specific skill set. Think about it, if specific skills from jobs were necessary to be successful in medical school, then wouldn't they be required? Instead, we see that simply doing clinical volunteer work is enough to satisfy their requirement for clinical experience. Also, even if entry-level clinical jobs were truly a great help, then it would be heavily emphasized on this website. But we just see people saying that they found their experiences "rewarding," but did not correlate this with their success in medical school.
A good analogy is someone who aspires to become an airline pilot starts working as a baggage handler. Sure you can see the environment close-up, but that doesn't translate into anything directly useful.
Reason #4: Sure you get paid but it's a lot of work (and not much money).
I'm sure that a lot of people are happy to be paid. Who wouldn't want to get paid? Unfortunately, what a lot of people don't understand is that even though it's nice to be paid, you might end up sacrificing your grades and MCAT score, which you can't put a price on! If you made an extra $3,000 but suffered lower grades as a result (which prevented you from getting into medical school), then was it really worth working this job? The money you receive from this job, while nice to have, is chump change compared to your future earnings as a physician. You can make more money and work more flexible schedules with service industry jobs like waitressing, pizza delivery, etc. But ultimately, your grades and MCAT come first. If you end up screwing those up, then an entry-level clinical job that just about everyone and their mother does will not make up for your bad grades and or MCAT score.
So please don't be tempted by the money you'd receive. It might seem like a lot now, but it's not at all compared to your potential future earnings as a physician. It's also not worth sacrificing grades, your MCAT, or your free time as a result.
Reason #5: Jewish children are considered ADULTS at 13 years old.
According to Jewish law, Jewish children become adults when they are 13 years old. Boys have a special ceremony called a Bar Mitzvah, while girls have a special ceremony called a Bat Mitzvah.
![atom.jpg](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.losangelesbarmitzvahphotographer.com%2Fatom.jpg&hash=36d807ffb26e7a66843f799c01472d68)
Now you might be asking me, "Planes2Doc, what does a Jewish ceremony have to do with entry-level clinical jobs?!"
I think it's great that people are able to experience these things. I am in no way trying to downplay them or say that they are meaningless, because that is far from it. But let's look at this from the perspective of Jewish children turning thirteen years old. Whether you're Jewish or not, I'm sure you probably have a good idea about what boys and girls do at that age. I remember when I was 13, I used to play video games, go outside, and do a lot of other fun things with my best friends. I don't exactly know what girls that age do, but if you're a girl, I'm sure you know. But one thing you don't see these thirteen year olds doing is working jobs. So even though they are considered adults according to Jewish law, shouldn't these kids be working jobs then? Even if you're Jewish, you have no expectation that these thirteen year olds should be working and getting significant work experience to put on their resume. Instead, what do we expect them to do? Well, if I were to see thirteen year olds, I would expect them to spend their time with friends, playing games, and doing other things that we expect people in that age group to do. Therefore, should we believe that they are missing out on those experiences that working adults do after they've started their careers after finishing college?
I view pre-meds the same exact way. Just as we expect thirteen year olds to do certain things, we also expect college undergraduates to do things to. I expect them to study, spend time with friends, and party. Isn't this what college is about? Every time I've visited friends on college campuses, people would be going to bars and partying it up on weekends. You don't see a large number of college students either working significant work hours at a job (typically) or ladling soup at a soup kitchen on weekends. Yet, pre-meds seem to take up a lot of work and ECs that other people wouldn't do.
Therefore, when someone says that you'll miss out on these "amazing" things by not working an entry-level clinical job, I can counter their argument by saying that as a future physician, YOU WILL HAVE THE REST OF YOUR LIFE TO DO THIS IN YOUR FUTURE. Sure you might see some amazing things, like life and death experiences or what not, but is this what you should really be spending all your time with at your age? Should college students really be working as an EMT, scribe, or CNA instead of partying and going out with friends? I don't see why anyone should be criticized for doing the latter. College students are expected to do these things, just like thirteen year olds even though Jewish children are considered "adults" at that age. Are thirteen year old Jewish people missing out on clinical experiences because they aren't working these jobs? Well, if that question sounds silly, then why does it sound fine asking if a college student should be doing all of those things? We shouldn't expect a college student to necessarily do all of these things so early on. There's a time and place for everything. Considering the sacrifices that they will make on becoming a physician, I'm sure that they will have many decades ahead to experience all of these things plus more.
In the meantime, why not let college students be college students, just like thirteen year olds are still thirteen years? There's plenty of time for all that serious stuff later.
Reason #6: Clinical volunteering is the BEST thing you can ever do as a pre-med.
At this point you must be asking, "Seriously? Did Planes2Doc just say that clinical volunteering is a great thing? Has he lost his mind?!"
First of all, since ADCOMs want you to get accustomed to the clinical environment and not necessarily learn specific skills, you're doing just that as a clinical volunteer. Yet unlike entry-level clinical jobs, you're only expected to come in once a week for three or four hours at a time. This will provide you with enough free time to study for classes, study for the MCAT, and have more free time do things you're seriously passionate about. It kind of sucks to do unpaid labor, but you usually need to pay for conveniences in life and clinical volunteering is no exception. I would much rather have the free time to do the things I need to do without getting paid, versus getting pocket change and having to make numerous sacrifices.
Secondly, if you're not really the volunteering type, then clinical volunteering will also fulfill the unwritten "altruism" requirement that ADCOMs expect you to do. This is what LizzyM and other people refer to as killing two birds with one stone, where you can check off the box for clinical experience plus volunteering. It seems that the volunteer experiences that are worth doing are usually sporadic, and therefore you can piggyback them on the clinical volunteering. This is what I did, since I actually loved my non-clinical volunteer work. But I didn't want to come off as a selfish bastard by only volunteering once every few months, so the clinical volunteering was helpful.
Thirdly, if you're simply going through the motions and checking off the box for the sake of medical school admissions, then you can still be productive while volunteering at a "crappy" place. Unlike at a paid job, you can probably spend the your time studying material or doing personal things. A lot of hospital volunteers end up doing this because there usually isn't much to do, and they are ignored by staff. Since you're ultimately there to have a verifiable experience for ADCOMs, it doesn't really matter what you do, as long as you can verify what you did.
Remember, hospital volunteering is like Vegas, minus 99% of the fun. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, same with hospital volunteering.
![lasvegaspic.jpg](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.festivalcrashers.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Flasvegaspic.jpg&hash=8219c95ac3cbe3d13530bc960a9fe841)
Doing homework, studying for the MCAT, or just surfing Facebook would typically not fly at a clinical job. But it's usually a given for countless pre-med volunteers across this great country of ours.
Lastly, if you get to know physicians at your volunteer site, you can probably end up shadowing them during your volunteer shift. Therefore, if you have no moral objections, you can technically stack your shadowing hours on top of those volunteer hours. So you get yet another bonus. Once again, shadowing would likely not fly at a clinical job. I believe that with scribing you can get away without shadowing, but once again, you are working many hours per week over numerous shifts which I have mentioned before.
With all of these contentions, you can see that clinical volunteering is definitely the way to go as a pre-med. Sure it sucks to not be paid, but you only show up once a week for a few hours, and can probably do your own thing as well since ADCOMs will not end up verifying your actual performance at the volunteer site.
I would also like to mention that if you work a clinical job, you still need to volunteer in order to fulfill that unwritten requirement. This means working yet more hours on top of the numerous you would already work at your clinical job. It can be difficult to juggle so many things as a pre-med!
Final Thoughts
I hope this has showed you some reasons as to why you shouldn't work an entry-level clinical job. As a pre-med, you're already expected to do so much. Is it really worth doing an entry-level clinical job? As you can see, it won't set you apart from the rest since ADCOMs see so many pre-meds doing this. The money you receive is pocket change compared to future earnings. The numerous shifts and hours you work per week might end up hurting your grades, MCAT, or simply bite into that last bit of free time that you have left until you start medical school.
Finally, you always hear about people saying how they experienced all of these amazing things at their entry-level clinical jobs. It's great and all, but there's time for that. As a physician, you'll have an entire lifetime to experience these things and so much more. As a college student, shouldn't you spend the best years of your life with friends and doing the things college students are usually passionate about? Of course. We should expect college kids to be college kids, the same way we expect Jewish 13 year olds to be like 13 year olds.
You only live once, and college should be the best time of your life. It shouldn't be about getting ahead of yourself and missing out on things, because you'll have plenty of time to do all that later. Just do what you need to do. Get good grades, have fun, and good luck!
![Luckie :luck: :luck:](/smilies/cloversmile.gif)
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