Clinical Postdocs

[kedmonkey]

So internship is just about to start and now I'm getting worried about post-internship. Friends who have recently graduated are having a tough time finding a job. I would love to work unlicensed for a year or two rather than getting a post-doc since I am not prepared to specialize in a particular area. But it's looking like that might not be a good plan as those jobs are extremely limited.

Postdocs I have seen advertised are often very research oriented with limited clinical time.

Does anyone have any ideas on where to look for clinically oriented postdocs or jobs for unlicensed new grads?

I'm looking in NY/NJ area.

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[psychmama]

If what you're after is clinical hours and you don't really want to specialize, check out the postdocs offered at university counseling centers. There are a number in the NYC/NJ area. The pay varies -- some pay around 35k, while other offer considerably less.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Post-docs aren't always specialized, as they are often found at generalist settings (community mental health, etc). Fellowships on the other hand tend to be specialized and often are a combination of clinical and research responsibilities. I'd strongly recommend signing up for the APPIC Post-Doc Listserv (found on www.appic.org and then the e-mail lists), as they tend to be the best single source for relevant post-doc information. APA division list-servs are also great places to look, though they are obviously more niche in their training.

 

[Ollie123]

while other offer considerably less.

Considerably less than 35k in the NYC area? Even 35k is below the NIH payline...I'd think NYC would have to pay well above that just to find someone willing to take the job. I wouldn't even consider a post-doc in NYC unless they went to at least 45 or 50.

Maybe I'm biased from looking at the research ones, which will rarely dip that low even in podunk nowhere let alone NYC, but that seems obscene to me.

 

[DrGero]

University of Rochester Medical Center has an excellent clinical post-doc (although they do require a research project).

I wonder about the opposition to specializing. What with the proliferation of psychologists out there (b/c of professional schools) it would seem necessary for any psychologist with an intention of practicing to establish themselves in a niche. The psychologists who have the hardest time finding work, I would guess, are the generalists who practice "eclectic" psychotherapy.

 

[DrGero]

University of Rochester Medical Center has an excellent clinical post-doc (although they do require a research project).

I wonder about the opposition to specializing. What with the proliferation of psychologists out there (b/c of professional schools) it would seem necessary for any psychologist with an intention of practicing to establish themselves in a niche. The psychologists who have the hardest time finding work, I would guess, are the generalists who practice "eclectic" psychotherapy.

Also keep in mind that URMC was paying about 38K for their postdocs when I was there a few years back. Since it was upstate NY, it actually was money that went pretty far.

My clinical postdoc was great - it was APA accredited, allowed me to accrue supervised hours for licensure (a complicated matter in California if you don't have a postdoc) and I completed a little minor program evaluation research which might get published someday soon. Nice deal.

 

[psychmama]

Maybe I'm biased from looking at the research ones, which will rarely dip that low even in podunk nowhere let alone NYC, but that seems obscene to me.

I agree it's depressingly low. Still, it's not always easy to find postdocs when: 1) there's a lot of competition in and around NYC; 2) you'd rather not scrounge together supervised hours on your own; and 3) you do not have the ability to relocate.

I know that research postdocs usually pay more, but that's not for everyone. In any event, nothing's perfect. The University counseling gigs work for some and not others.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

RE: Specializing

I think it is important to specialize because it helps differentiate you from the thousands of other newly minted psychologists or therapists (if you are looking at therapy only/heavy positions). Some people do fine as generalists, though I think you are rolling the dice that you can beat out other candidates that have similar backgrounds and experiences.

The vast majority of interns do not complete formal post-docs or fellowships, so it isn't like you are doomed if you choose an informal post-doc or a job, but you'll be up against more people for the same jobs. I chose to pursue a formal fellowship because it was the most direct path to meet my goals (boarding and employment in academic medicine), though it often isn't as clear cut. I could probably still pursue my goals without a fellowship, though I think there would be a few more hoops.

I'll defer to others about the best options for therapy-heavy positions, as I know the least about them.

 

[Ollie123]

I agree it's depressingly low. Still, it's not always easy to find postdocs when: 1) there's a lot of competition in and around NYC; 2) you'd rather not scrounge together supervised hours on your own; and 3) you do not have the ability to relocate.

I know that research postdocs usually pay more, but that's not for everyone. In any event, nothing's perfect. The University counseling gigs work for some and not others.

Hey, if it works it works.

I'm just trying to picture any situation that could convince me to stay in NYC at that wage that does not involve an extraordinarily wealthy spouse

 

[psychmama]

I agree that specialization can be a good way of ensuring you stand out from the competition.

However, not everyone has a specialty straight out of the gate. I think a lot of psychologists discover their areas of interest or a specialty as they go along. This may not be as strategic a way of doing things, but there's something to be said for having a breadth of experience in your early professional life. I know lots of psychologists who've told me they stumbled on their specialties more or less by accident.

Having a plan is great; being open to new experiences and seeing opportunities you never thought about it also a good thing.

Then again, this is coming from someone who didn't mind making a major career change mid-stream in life, despite not having the clearest of plans, and finding how much I love the field of psychology. My path to bliss is certainly not for everyone!

 

[psychmama]

I'm just trying to picture any situation that could convince me to stay in NYC at that wage that does not involve an extraordinarily wealthy spouse

I hear you... Money problems are a b*tch!

 

[kedmonkey]

About the specialization...

I do have a couple of areas I think I would/could be interested in specializing in but feel like I don't have enough experience in those areas to be a competitive candidate for the formal specialized postdocs. Also, I worry with the job market that if I'm specialized, I'm cutting myself out of jobs opportunities which aren't in that specialty.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[DrGero]

About the specialization...

I do have a couple of areas I think I would/could be interested in specializing in but feel like I don't have enough experience in those areas to be a competitive candidate for the formal specialized postdocs. Also, I worry with the job market that if I'm specialized, I'm cutting myself out of jobs opportunities which aren't in that specialty.

Thanks for the suggestions!

That's kind of the rub with specializing early on in your career. On the one hand, if you stay a generalist, arguably, you qualify for more positions when you finally get around to applying for jobs. On the other hand, there's the competition-with-other-generalists aspect.

For my part, I got a third year practicum in geropsychology. That turned into a geropsych. internship and a geropsych. postdoc. Then I did about a year of consulting in nursing homes. Then, before I knew it, I found a Geropsychologist position advertised at a local VA. Far from competing with other psychologists for the position, I ended up being pretty much the only candidate worth consideration.

On the other hand, if that position hadn't opened up, I don't know what I would be doing right now.

So, there are costs and benefits to specializing at this point in your career. It worked out for me so far, but I could see how it might not have.