clinical psych phd and having a family

[gonl]

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A career in clinical psychology seems to involve a lot of requirements (long graduate school training, need to move multiple times for internship/postdoc/jobs) that are not really great if you are a woman who wants to have a family. I am close to my family, want to have kids of my own at a reasonable age, and don't want to drag my family across the country. Is this at all compatible with wanting to complete a clinical psychology PhD program and work in an academic medical center? Is it possible to achieve a good work/life balance? How does the lifestyle and geographic flexibility compare to the MD career path (it seems like medical doctors have more choice as to what part of the country they attend school in and find a job in, as well as more options for part-time work while raising children - is this accurate)?
Or, are both paths pretty miserable for women who want to have children and some time to enjoy them?

 

[cara susanna]

I don't think that either path is great for that purpose, tbh.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I don't think that either path is great for that purpose, tbh.

Maybe so but with any field you can make it through as long as your spouse is supportive.

 

[Sanman]

Well, I had a dissertation chair that did just what you described and had a baby along the way, so it can be done. That said, there are hurdles and an understanding spouse with a portable job might be a necessity. Psychologists don't make a ton of money, so you have to decide on priorities. If your spouse is the bread winner and cannot relocate to an AMC that hires you, will you be turning down the position? I know I have offers for clinical positions with above average salaries, but my spouse still makes more and it made more financial sense for me to move to her location rather than have her relocate and make less money in a more expensive locale. So, my options end up being more geographically limited and my career takes more of a backseat than I ever anticipated after all these years of education, but that is the reality when you pick a career with lower salary potential. At the end of the say, none of us can tell you exacly what life will end up offering you. However, IMO, the allied health professions and NP programs strike a much better balance of money, opportunities, and family-friendly hours.

 

[JeyRo]

It's probably not that easy for a man who wants to have a family either. Just sayin'.

 

[Lisa44201]

Maybe so but with any field you can make it through as long as your spouse is supportive.

This.

It's probably not that easy for a man who wants to have a family either. Just sayin'.

And this.

That said, there are folks who do this.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I agree with what everyone's said thus far--it's possible, but it's tough. The way I see it, there are two main sticking points (although those with direct experience, feel free to correct/add):

1) The strong possibility of frequent moving during training, which will require that you either uproot your family and bring them along with you or potentially have to deal with a long-distance relationship for X number of years.

2) The likelihood that you either may need to move for a job (particularly if looking solely for AMC positions), or that you may need to settle for a less-desirable position, at least temporarily, if you're set on staying in a particular area/region. One bonus to potentially having trained where you'd like to live, though, is that your opportunities for networking may be significant, which can go a long way toward helping you find the job you'd like in that area.

As for having children, the two most common phases for that to occur (at least in my experience) would be later in grad school or before/during postdoc.

 

[erg923]

Married during grad school. Wife willing to move for internship and then again to settle, but that was it. No more moving. Period. It has worked out but has obvioulsy limited the job market. We had kids last year, which was technically my post-doc year. I had a real job though, which allowed more financial freedom than many peiople do on post-doc though.

 

[docma]

A supportive partner with a durable income and willingness to share in parenting is a key ingredient. It also works better if you have a broader scope of potential roles than a focus on an AMC, where getting in and staying there can be quite competitive. Public systems (VA, military, state, county, municipal), once you are in them, offer a range of ways to combine career and family and the trade off in income is worth it in terms of role flexibility and benefits.

 

[researchgirl]

1) The strong possibility of frequent moving during training, which will require that you either uproot your family and bring them along with you or potentially have to deal with a long-distance relationship for X number of years.

2) The likelihood that you either may need to move for a job (particularly if looking solely for AMC positions), or that you may need to settle for a less-desirable position, at least temporarily, if you're set on staying in a particular area/region. One bonus to potentially having trained where you'd like to live, though, is that your opportunities for networking may be significant, which can go a long way toward helping you find the job you'd like in that area.

As for having children, the two most common phases for that to occur (at least in my experience) would be later in grad school or before/during postdoc.

All of the above is true. For me, it has meant long distance during internship so that my spouse doesn't have to move one million times, and waiting to have kids until post doc... it is not ideal but I know plenty of people who have navigated having partners and children while being successful in the field. I think your partner's career goals, flexibility, etc. can either make that easier or more difficult.

 

[JeyRo]

A supportive partner with a durable income and willingness to share in parenting is a key ingredient. It also works better if you have a broader scope of potential roles than a focus on an AMC, where getting in and staying there can be quite competitive. Public systems (VA, military, state, county, municipal), once you are in them, offer a range of ways to combine career and family and the trade off in income is worth it in terms of role flexibility and benefits.

I can vouch for the comments about the VA. Although the school / training portion of mt doctoral career was murderous on my family life, very difficult to manage, I will say the flexibility and family-friendlines I'm able to squeeze out of my VA position are truly unparalleled. I know it's not the same for every VA position, but I got very lucky.

 

[PHD12]

Is it possible to achieve a good work/life balance? How does the lifestyle and geographic flexibility compare to the MD career path (it seems like medical doctors have more choice as to what part of the country they attend school in and find a job in, as well as more options for part-time work while raising children - is this accurate)?
Or, are both paths pretty miserable for women who want to have children and some time to enjoy them?

Most of the psychologists that I know (even the superstars) moved for graduate school, then again for internship, and often postdoc. If you can't move at least for internship and then maybe for your first job, you are unlikely to land a good position in this field. Alternatively, you may have to wait several years for a good position to open up. I know very few people even from top programs who didn't have to move at one point.

It's significantly easier to get into residency in psychiatry then internship as a psychologist. The people that I know who went to US med schools didn't have to move (unless they chose to) and then had a plethora of job opportunities in the same state after residency. This is not the case for psychologists. It is tough to stay in one location and even the top ones can't always do so. You won't be able to support yourself with a part-time job in psychology. However, I know many female psychiatrists who do PT private practice and can still survive in CA with kids and spouse. They typically earn 2-3x the salary of psychologists so part-time work is more viable. I have no idea what your interests are so I am not recommending psychiatry specifically since it is a completely different field.

In terms of VA psychologist positions, they are tough to land if you are geographically restricted. I'm willing to be that Jey Ro waited several years to land a job as a psychologist in the VA system in a competitive location. This was my experience from training there.

 

[Sanman]

In terms of VA psychologist positions, they are tough to land if you are geographically restricted. I'm willing to be that Jey Ro waited several years to land a job as a psychologist in the VA system in a competitive location. This was my experience from training there.

Having interned at a VA in a competitive location, I usually see thst it either takes a few years of you start directly out of internship/post-doc and never leave.

 

[JeyRo]

I'm willing to be that Jey Ro waited several years to land a job as a psychologist in the VA system in a competitive location. This was my experience from training there.

Ah hah! I win that bet.

I actually got an informal offer for my current VA job about six months post-licensure (although it took another eight months for them to finally process me and officially hire me - typical federal government).

However, I will totally concede that I think I got very lucky - the planets were simply just properly aligned in my case.

 

[NCSP]

Married during grad school. Wife willing to move for internship and then again to settle, but that was it. No more moving. Period. It has worked out but has obvioulsy limited the job market. We had kids last year, which was technically my post-doc year. I had a real job though, which allowed more financial freedom than many peiople do on post-doc though.

This is consistent with my experience and most of my friends. My husband was very supportive and if pursuing a career in clinical psychology there is going to have to be the understanding that at least one move for internship will be likely.

 

[gonl]

So would it be better, given the choice, to attend a school near a large metropolitan area where there is more opportunity to make connections, rather than a school with a slightly better reputation that is more isolated and further away from where I'd ultimately like to end up?

 

[erg923]

So would it be better, given the choice, to attend a school near a large metropolitan area where there is more opportunity to make connections, rather than a school with a slightly better reputation that is more isolated and further away from where I'd ultimately like to end up?

no. not really.

 

[eowyne]

I struggle with this myself. I have a non-mobile spouse and kids, and am applying for internship, facing the likelihood of a very long and painful commute, if I even match given my geographical restrictions. If you can wait to have kids until after internship, that would help, though I know that isn't always possible for numerous reasons. But academic jobs don't give you much geographic flexibility either - usually you go where the job is, as the odds are pretty low that a job that is a good fit will just happen to be open when you need it. On the other hand, if you're planning on private practice, you will have a lot of geographical flexibility post-internship. I don't mean to be discouraging, but if you want to be able to stay in the same area throughout the process, an LCSW or MFT would be a better choice - there are many more training positions and jobs.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

A career in clinical psychology seems to involve a lot of requirements (long graduate school training, need to move multiple times for internship/postdoc/jobs) that are not really great if you are a woman who wants to have a family. I am close to my family, want to have kids of my own at a reasonable age, and don't want to drag my family across the country. Is this at all compatible with wanting to complete a clinical psychology PhD program and work in an academic medical center? Is it possible to achieve a good work/life balance? How does the lifestyle and geographic flexibility compare to the MD career path (it seems like medical doctors have more choice as to what part of the country they attend school in and find a job in, as well as more options for part-time work while raising children - is this accurate)?
Or, are both paths pretty miserable for women who want to have children and some time to enjoy them?

Since you mentioned the MD route I assume you're potentially interested in prescribing and/or physical health. Consider becoming a NP. The education process is much more flexible. Bonus: the salaries are high and there are a ton of jobs, due to the shortage.

 

[PHD12]

So would it be better, given the choice, to attend a school near a large metropolitan area where there is more opportunity to make connections, rather than a school with a slightly better reputation that is more isolated and further away from where I'd ultimately like to end up?

Like Erg mentioned this is not going to be helpful per se. The reason is that major metropolitan areas get a ridiculous amount of applications for internship, postdoc and jobs so they are often tougher to stay in. Check out the appic website and do a search for internships and postdocs. Some states only have 2-7 APA accredited internships (each taking less than a handful of people) so it will give you a sense of how tough it is to find a good match if you are restricted to one location. http://www.appic.org/

Moving (and often multiple times) is the NORM in this field. At my postdoc and past internship site, the vast majority of people were from graduate programs in other states. Even people from top programs often move. I think most people on this forum moved at some point in their training too (including me).

MD, RN, and NP jobs are much more in demand so you are less likely to have to move. There are very few psychologist openings in any location at a given time so that is part of the problem.

 

[gonl]

My interests are in the area of behavioral medicine and neurodevelopmental disabilities. Consult-liaison psychiatry, developmental behavioral pediatrics or genetics are all interesting to me, but these are pretty specific areas so they might be geographically restricting as well. As far as becoming an NP, are there opportunities to play a significant role in research in that role? I'm better at coming up with research ideas rather than being the one to carry out the details of someone else's ideas (more of a "big picture" person)

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

My interests are in the area of behavioral medicine and neurodevelopmental disabilities. Consult-liaison psychiatry, developmental behavioral pediatrics or genetics are all interesting to me, but these are pretty specific areas so they might be geographically restricting as well. As far as becoming an NP, are there opportunities to play a significant role in research in that role? I'm better at coming up with research ideas rather than being the one to carry out the details of someone else's ideas (more of a "big picture" person)

C&L psych is an interest of mine as well. Do psychologists do C&L? I've only seen physicians and NPs in the role

You can get involved in research as an NP, but you'd probably need to get a PhD in nursing in order to have your own lab. In fact, nursing is the only field I know of that has a significant shortage of PhDs and is actively recruiting people to apply and obtain them (with full funding). They will seriously throw money at you to do it. There's also a serious faculty shortage in nursing, so finding a full-time teaching position is a piece of cake. Basically, NPs and RNs tend to make a lot of money doing clinical work, and when they teach or do research their salaries can take a hit, so fewer people are pursuing those routes. I used to think that nurses were only the PIs on clinically oriented, outcomes based research. However, there are many doing basic science research as well. Just this week we had our genetics lecture done by a student in the PhD program who is researching genes related to diabetes.

If you only want to get one degree and are interested in being an NP whose role in research is more along the lines of disseminating research and/or evaluating evidence-based-practice, the DNP is a new thing that you might want to consider. However, since it's a brand new degree/role it will be probably take a while to see how it is adopted. Some DNP programs appear quite rigorous and provide a lot of research training (including a required dissertation) and extra clinical training. Others are completely online and basically a glorified MPH. There's an NP on this site (posts in other sections) who has her DNP and has been wildly successful. Her research project is now being modeled in clinics and disseminated throughout the country. Anyway, I hope that helps clarify the roles that an NP can have in research.

 

[paramour]

C&L psych is an interest of mine as well. Do psychologists do C&L? I've only seen physicians and NPs in the role

Yep. Psychologists and social workers, too.

 

[Moose03]

I know that this is a somewhat dated thread, but I am struggling with this issue currently and was hoping to revive the topic a bit. I worked for almost ten years before coming back to school and by the time that I returned to school, I was married and had made some very intentional decisions about my career choice. I was in a lucrative career before coming back, but wanted more autonomy and the opportunity to expand my knowledge and skill set. That said, I have never been willing to sacrifice the relationships that I have with my family (which has made pre-internship training horrific). I see so many faculty members and graduate students sacrificing time in the evening for the sake of getting 'pubs'. I feel, in some ways, forced to make the decision between this lifestyle and the option of spending time with my partner (who is a medical professional equally invested in their career pursuits, and a person highly-respected among their peers).

 

[erg923]

I see so many faculty members and graduate students sacrificing time in the evening for the sake of getting 'pubs'. I feel, in some ways, forced to make the decision between this lifestyle and the option of spending time with my partner (who is a medical professional equally invested in their career pursuits, and a person highly-respected among their peers).

Well, I think that is accurate. Some careers, academia for example, are not 40 hour/week jobs and you should not expect them to be...thus choices need to be made. I was not a choice I preferred either, so I took a VA job with a cushy 8-4 schedule.

 

[ClinicalABA]

My internship (pre-doc) ended in August, first child was born the following May (you do the math!). I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have a child during the whole grad school, internship, post-doc process. I was married during my first year of grad school, and was fortunate that my wife was will and able to move, with a pretty portable profession (physical therapy). Going to graduate school in our home town didn't hurt either. Went the non-post-doc route (e.g. "real job" with required supervision), but was able to remain in same area as pre-doc. Have relocate once since, for lifestyle reasons (back to where we lived during grad-school). You can have a family during the process, and a small percentage do, but it requires a patient, willing spouse, ideally with a portable carreer. Kids, on the other hand (especially infants), tend to be a bit needy and narcissistic, showing little concern for your lab schedules, dissertation needs, or tough days at work. They also seem to cost a bit of money to clothe, feed, and otherwise take care of, and money can be a bit scarce during grad-school, internship, etc.

long story short- it can be done, but it ain't gonna be easy.

 

[WisNeuro]

All about sacrifices. Certain sacrifices will lead to certain opportunities. If you want to just get by, do the minimum, get a so-so internship, it's easy to get by with the work/life balance. If you want to be more competitive, have more pubs, get additional kinds of clinical training, something's got to give. The number if hours in the day is a zero sum game.

 

[IT514]

First child on internship, second during second year of post-doc. Prior to that I had a lot of career-focused ambition that has since been channeled into other pursuits, most of which are related to home life and to support the lifestyle I prescribe for my patients. Wife works very part time, mostly from home, and family is nearby. I flat out told my current employer (a fairly progressive medical center) that my family comes first and that my schedule needs to be flexible and no more than 40 hours. I didn't say such things until I had multiple offers for leverage. I didn't like their first offer so I went to the VA for a while, only to return after a significant change to the contract. This involved multiple moves after post-doc, but it was well worth it in the end.

 

[Moose03]

All about sacrifices. Certain sacrifices will lead to certain opportunities. If you want to just get by, do the minimum, get a so-so internship, it's easy to get by with the work/life balance. If you want to be more competitive, have more pubs, get additional kinds of clinical training, something's got to give. The number if hours in the day is a zero sum game.

I certainly agree. It's a values game at the end of the day.

I was a workaholic in my last "career" and sacrificed my health, well-being, and my relationships with friends and family members in order to move up. This type of behavior is socially rewarded in so many industries, the field of psychology not excused. I think what bothers me the most is that folks in the field sometimes cast a subtle impression upon others suggesting that less competitive routes are mediocre or markers of a willingness to not work hard. It's not wrong for folks to endeavor to compete for the most competitive internships or academic possibilities nor is it wrong for folks to sacrifice these options for the sake of other domains of their lives (i.e., family, relationships, etc.).

 

[WisNeuro]

I certainly agree. It's a values game at the end of the day.

I was a workaholic in my last "career" and sacrificed my health, well-being, and my relationships with friends and family members in order to move up. This type of behavior is socially rewarded in so many industries, the field of psychology not excused. I think what bothers me the most is that folks in the field sometimes cast a subtle impression upon others suggesting that less competitive routes are mediocre or markers of a willingness to not work hard. It's not wrong for folks to endeavor to compete for the most competitive internships or academic possibilities nor is it wrong for folks to sacrifice these options for the sake of other domains of their lives (i.e., family, relationships, etc.).

I don't think it's a suggestion as much as it is a simple reality. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but, sites with better training, more access to research, etc, are sites that are more competitive (on average). And, as such, can be more selective in choosing trainees. Those trainees that can sacrifice other things to ramp up their CV are going to be in a better spot for those slots. There is nothing wrong with prioritizing family at the expense of extra work in other areas (e.g., pubs), but it's a choice, and sometimes that choice will limit some of your opportunities. It's just how life works.

 

[soccercat]

We had our first child while both of us were in grad school for Clinical Psych. Moved ever year for 3 years in a row for training and only spent a brief time near family (all while either pregnant or with the baby). Baby number 2 will be born during postdoc. Having the baby only slowed down graduation for one of us (and it was not me-the one who gave birth); but we talked a lot and planned so we still had a career path that would move forward each year. It's not easy, but if you want it you figure it out. And yes, a supportive partner is probably the most important part of this.

We're actually part of a team that is in the process of working on some publications/research about what parenthood in grad school/clinical training is like.

Feel free to PM if you want to talk more directly about this.

 

[calimich]

It is about values, boundaries, and that elusive "fit." There are employers who value family time, respect relationships, and don't expect folks to live at work. For me, that turned out to be an academic career.

I think there is also some privilege here...during job interviews when I talked about needing a flexible schedule to care for my kid I often got the "you're such a great dad" response. For my wife, the same request is often interpreted as a liability and perhaps what you mention as the "willingness to not work hard."

 

[PhDPlz2011]

Just chiming in to agree with others who have said that this path is difficult but not impossible, and that having a supportive spouse is critical. I'm on internship right now and my daughter was born at the beginning of my 4th year of graduate school. My husband is also in graduate school, finishing up this year. We moved for my internship and will likely move again at the end of this year, and then we will most likely not move again for at least a few years, which will limit our options somewhat but is important to us as our daughter gets older. I'm very research-focused, so I expect to end up either in a tt position or in a research-focused postdoc next year that I will stay in for 2-3 years while I try to find a tt job commuting distance from wherever we end up...and then we will move if I can't. My husband is going into industry.)

It's also important to think about the financial aspects of this path. We have had family support that has made it possible to afford childcare for our daughter. I have friends who have kids and do not have that kind of support, and they struggle tremendously. We also both had independent funding for the latter years of graduate school, which meant that we did not have TA or RA obligations. These were huge privileges that definitely made things much easier for us.

For me, the years of combining family life and grad school (pre-internship) were relatively easy. Most of my peers who are in the professional world have much more restrictive, inflexible schedules than I had as a grad student. The current period of frequent (expensive) moves and uncertainty about next steps has been really hard, and I carry a lot of guilt about moving my daughter from place to place. I'm excited about the long term prospects for my career and family life, though. From what I've observed, academics have it easier than clinicians (at least for those who have the temperament to be happy in academia)...we do work really hard, but often have the flexibility to work from home, leave the office early if the kiddo is sick, etc. And I really like what I do, which I think has a very positive influence on my daughter. I think this path will pay off for my family in the long run.

 

[deleted343839]

I see so many faculty members and graduate students sacrificing time in the evening for the sake of getting 'pubs'. I feel, in some ways, forced to make the decision between this lifestyle and the option of spending time with my partner (who is a medical professional equally invested in their career pursuits, and a person highly-respected among their peers).

It sounds like you don't have a lot of role models who share similar priorities. I'm not surprised. I didn't encounter truly helpful work/life role models until internship year. It was the first time a high-performing faculty member told me (in a supportive way) that you actually can't do everything simultaneously and expect to perform well across the board. Of course we know this, but when it's normalized, especially by successful people, it changes your outlook. It helps to work among people who recognize that trade-offs are real and that people make valid choices to order their priorities in the service of whatever "balance" they're looking for. Choose your future colleagues carefully.

I've known two or maybe three extremely competent, unusually efficient people who seem to be totally on top of their games in every way, but even they will admit to the feeling of being on a tightrope most of the time. And invariably they have a lot of help from their partners, extended family, nannies, etc.

 

[RejectClinical]

There really aren't any easy answers for this. I think it depends on what you're willing to give up along the way. I've seen people come into grad school with kids, have kids in grad school, have kids on internship, have kids on post doc, or wait until they are at their first job to have kids. The saying goes: There's no good time to have a kid (and I'm beginning to believe it as I prepare for my own family).

Internship doesn't seem to be the best time to have kids because there isn't much flexibility as you have to meet the requirements. You have also have very few days off during internship. There are sites where you don't have to work more than 40 hours, but you'll need someone (daycare, family, friends, partner, etc) to watch your kid during the day (unless they're old enough for full time school, but that still leaves the summer).

With grad school, there are labs where you're left to your own devices....as long as you're putting out research, showing up for the classes you need to, and doing your clinical hours, no one is there checking on you to see where you are. You'll still be working a ton of hours, but you have location/time flexibility at least for a chunk of your week, which is nice. I've seen several people have babies in grad school. It can be done, but it really depends on a number of factors. Do you have a partner and what is their flexibility/hours/salary/etc? Where does your grad school funding come from (TA or RA)? How big is your stipend? Is there daycare available at your grad school (we had one at ours and students definitely took advantage of it)? Is the department family friendly? Are you still taking classes? Many grad students waited until their later years to have kids because they could work from home more. I've seen several people have kids during their dissertation year when they weren't required to see clients or do anything but work on their dissertation (and apply to internship if they were clinical). I knew of one program where a faculty member allowed students to get funding by TAing online courses so they could be at home with their babies more. Even with all of that, you can't control what "kind" of kid you get. Some of my friends had really easy babies where they got work done and others could not get any work down around their babies (very fussy with terrible sleep schedules). That's another factor that will really impact your ability to have kids in grad school.

Post doc (if it is more research focused) tends to be flexible like grad school. Plus, you have the added bonus of not taking any classes which again allows for flexibility in terms of location/which hours you work. With all of that said, it can also be stressful if you're trying to get out a ton of pubs to get an academic job and/or you're at a post doc that doesn't have any flexibility with regard to when/where you want to do your work. With that said, I saw at least one post doc that offered 12 weeks of paid maternity leave. The VA will let you use all of your sick time you've accrued to date. If you go from a VA internship to VA post doc, that's 13 days of sick leave that can be applied (plus whatever you've accrued up to the point you take maternity leave). I think you can also get more time off outside of your sick and vacation leave, but it is unpaid at that point if you're at a VA. You still have to get approval from your supervisors and meet the requirements of your post doc as well. Again, I'm sure there is tons of variability here.

If you wait until you get your job to have kids, some places have incredible maternity leave policies. I have a friend at a liberal arts college that gives her a full semester off (and she doesn't have to work during the summer either, so it is pretty close to 7 months). I think this is definitely the ideal and not the reality. As a new faculty member, you're usually spending a lot of time prepping classes, writing grants, publishing, etc so this could be an awful time if there isn't set aside maternity leave. In the VA, I think you can get people to donate their sick leave to you, but I'm not positive. I also don't know the exact details regarding how grants treat this.

In sum, not an easy choice and never a "great" time, but it can be done. There will just be some sacrifices along the way.

 

[DrTisMe]

I did it. I applied to graduate school pregnant with my first (despite everyone telling me that I'd never get in, applying as an obviously pregnant woman to a very competitive PhD program.) I did get in, to my first choice program, and proceeded to have several more children along the way. I think it depends on your outlook. In my culture, getting married young and having children was a given. Everything else had to be figured out. If you're determined enough, you can do anything. Yes, there were some graduate school experiences that I missed out on along the way. Yes, there were probably times I was passed over for opportunities by old-fashioned faculty who assumed that a mom of young children wasn't "committed" enough (because of course, having a 4.0 GPA, and a full load of research and externship obligations, while lugging a breast pump to graduate school means you are somehow a dilettante.). Yes, there were probably things I missed out on with my kids. Fortunately, I'm married to someone who is an amazing father, and we both realized early on - forget traditional gender roles, forget how it seems to others - the key thing is that the child has A parent with them at a critical time. Doesn't matter if dad is the one baking the cupcakes for the class party, what matters is that cupcakes get baked for the class party! It really all depends on your expectations and what you are willing to forgo. For me, it was pretty much - a social life, a decent wardrobe, and just time for myself. While in grad school, those things were on hold. Nice thing about grad school is, it ends.

Internship was the hardest year, it meant I had to recruit a ton of support, like full-time cleaning help and help from the family. It still was a really challenging year - successful, I learned a lot and made lifelong collegial relationships and friends, but challenging. I could not have done internship pregnant or with a newborn. When I was on internship, my youngest child at the time was 3. 3 year olds need a lot of care, but they don't wake up every two hours at night and they do spend a portion of the day in preschool.

I'm now working for a private practice as a clinician while I wait for the glacially slow NJ Board to fully license me, which should be within the next two months. Working for a private practice as a mom is totally do-able and manageable - I am able to set my own hours (more or less, given patient availability). Once I'm fully licensed, my income is set to double, especially since the practice I'm working for is being very generous about allowing me to bring my patients with me to private practice (technically, no one "owns" the patient, but they could have made it much more difficult).

You really have to be realistic about what you can and can't do without, and make decisions based on that. I think a supportive partner and an extended circle of family or friends is key.

 

[Indiana_Jane]

I did it. I applied to graduate school pregnant with my first (despite everyone telling me that I'd never get in, applying as an obviously pregnant woman to a very competitive PhD program.) I did get in, to my first choice program, and proceeded to have several more children along the way. I think it depends on your outlook. In my culture, getting married young and having children was a given. Everything else had to be figured out. If you're determined enough, you can do anything. Yes, there were some graduate school experiences that I missed out on along the way. Yes, there were probably times I was passed over for opportunities by old-fashioned faculty who assumed that a mom of young children wasn't "committed" enough (because of course, having a 4.0 GPA, and a full load of research and externship obligations, while lugging a breast pump to graduate school means you are somehow a dilettante.). Yes, there were probably things I missed out on with my kids. Fortunately, I'm married to someone who is an amazing father, and we both realized early on - forget traditional gender roles, forget how it seems to others - the key thing is that the child has A parent with them at a critical time. Doesn't matter if dad is the one baking the cupcakes for the class party, what matters is that cupcakes get baked for the class party! It really all depends on your expectations and what you are willing to forgo. For me, it was pretty much - a social life, a decent wardrobe, and just time for myself. While in grad school, those things were on hold. Nice thing about grad school is, it ends.

Internship was the hardest year, it meant I had to recruit a ton of support, like full-time cleaning help and help from the family. It still was a really challenging year - successful, I learned a lot and made lifelong collegial relationships and friends, but challenging. I could not have done internship pregnant or with a newborn. When I was on internship, my youngest child at the time was 3. 3 year olds need a lot of care, but they don't wake up every two hours at night and they do spend a portion of the day in preschool.

I'm now working for a private practice as a clinician while I wait for the glacially slow NJ Board to fully license me, which should be within the next two months. Working for a private practice as a mom is totally do-able and manageable - I am able to set my own hours (more or less, given patient availability). Once I'm fully licensed, my income is set to double, especially since the practice I'm working for is being very generous about allowing me to bring my patients with me to private practice (technically, no one "owns" the patient, but they could have made it much more difficult).

You really have to be realistic about what you can and can't do without, and make decisions based on that. I think a supportive partner and an extended circle of family or friends is key.

Thank you for sharing this, DrTisMe. As a first year graduate who is expecting, I'm already feeling some of the weirdness that comes along with having a child in grad school. It's helpful to hear things like this when I'm feeling isolated!


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[fiinch]

Thank you for sharing this, DrTisMe. As a first year graduate who is expecting, I'm already feeling some of the weirdness that comes along with having a child in grad school. It's helpful to hear things like this when I'm feeling isolated!


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Not related to anything posted by the OP, but....congratulations on your pregnancy!

 

[EmotRegulation]

Thank you for sharing this, DrTisMe. As a first year graduate who is expecting, I'm already feeling some of the weirdness that comes along with having a child in grad school. It's helpful to hear things like this when I'm feeling isolated!

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There are definitely sources of support out there, even if you're the only one in your program with kids. Facebook groups, faculty members who had kids during grad school (I suspect your program has at least one of those) and a mentor who is supportive and realistic can all help. Plus, there are often groups on campus of "students who are parents"--my university has one of these. There are most definitely graduate students in other departments who are pregnant or have young kids, it's just that finding them can be hard. It is absolutely possible to be successful in graduate school and a parent, it's just that your path won't be the same as everyone else's (e.g., spending time with your kid while others are boozing up).

 

[NeuroWise]

As many have said previously, it is definitely possible to have children during graduate training, but it takes a lot of "extra" effort that trainees without children may not need to consider. My wife and I relocated from the west coast to the east coast so I could pursue this whole clinical psych thing with an excellent mentor. During finals week of my first semester of grad school my wife gave birth to our first child. (Not joking. At the beginning of my stats final she texted me with "Hey, I'm having your baby like right now.") So not only were we approximately 2,000 miles from the nearest family and I was a new grad student trying to survive, we threw a baby into the mix. Since then I have become a master of time management and I never feel bad when I "miss out" on certain things because my wife and I made the choice to have a child when we did. We decided before our child was born that our family was the singular priority so missing program or cohort parties because they happen at/after bedtime doesn't phase me. I totally enjoy what I do (research more than clinical work but whatever), but I enjoy being with my kid more. So when an extra time commitment opportunity presents itself, I am rarely unsure of whether or not I want to do it. In many ways, I think being a parent while in grad school has made me more productive than I may have been without a kid because the time my wife and I have allotted to my training is precious and I don't waste any of it. My CV reflects this commitment. I publish as much, if not more, than any other student in our program, and I have been able to receive the clinical neuropsych training necessary to make me competitive at any internship site. My professional goals are lofty and I have not had to adjust them because I chose to start a family.

The real key in all of this is your partner/spouse. I am lucky to have a spouse who is flexible, willing to live anywhere, and has a job (school teacher) that moves easily. She makes it all possible, to be real. I cannot stress enough the importance of having a frank discussion with the partner/spouse before deciding to get pregnant about who will do what, what are the familial priorities, and what are the long-term goals of the family. This puts everyone on the same page and limits frustrations attendant to having children.

To anyone who wants to have a family and be professional psychologist simultaneously, I say do it. It will be super difficult and, at times, overwhelming, but it can be done.

 

[deleted760483]

We made it work, but there was probably some luck involved. Got married a week before moving to the Twin Cities from Iowa and a month before I started my doctoral program. Was able to stay there through both pre-doctoral and post-doctoral internship. Had our first kid while applying for pre-doctoral internship and working on dissertation. Had our second during the last month of my post-doc. Overall it was fine, but some individual periods of time were tough. There was a span of about three months during my post-doc where I was getting up at 5am to get up with my son and watch our neighbors kid to let my pregnant and sick wife sleep in, work 9 hours, come home to clean, make dinner, and entertain my son, and then study for the EPP until midnight before going to sleep on the couch because of how bad pregnancy made my wife snore. That was rough.

Like NeuroWise said, it will be a lot easier if family is your priority and you are OK with making some sacrifices. I never really hung out with anyone from my cohort, didn't go to parties or social outings or anything like that. But I probably wouldn't have been doing those things anyway, all I did in undergrad was read and work out when I wasn't in class.

Also, I took a big gamble and didn't rank any out of state internship sites even though my school requires us to apply to at least half out of state and two of them did interview me. This was risky. I got in to my second choice and was pretty confident about my background and interview skills, but it could have backfired big time. We loved where we lived and just decided we weren't moving and it would work out. I already had an offer for post-doc before I was even on internship that I knew I wanted as it was a career path, so I really didn't feel like moving for a year only to then move back.