clinical vs basic science

[vent]

Can anyone suggest me which one is better to do - clinical or basic science research. I mean, to get credits for the residency position.
thanx

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[resxn]

Can anyone suggest me which one is better to do - clinical or basic science research. I mean, to get credits for the residency position.
thanx

Good and tough question to answer. I think it depends on 2 things, #1 - the quality of the research project #2 - the programs to which you're applying

If you look at other threads here are a few things mentioned which you should consider:

1 - it's harder to start and complete a clinical research project unless you're beginning in or before your 2nd year simply with all the IRB garbage these days. Sometimes you can jump on a project already started, but then you may not be up in the heirarchy of authorship where you want to be.
2 - basic research may turn out, and too infrequently does, to have crappy results that are not even worth submitting
3 - programs that have large basic science research may not be as impressed with clinic research and vice versa.
4 - whatever you choose, bust your hump to get your name as high on the list of authors as you can--everyone knows that the biggest reputation on the paper is the force in it, but the higher your name, the more work you typically have done and that only reflects well on you. If you're last on a list of 7 authors, you were not considered real crucial to the project a lot of times as accurate or inaccurate as that may be.

If you want to read a personal example from me keep reading, if not stop here.

People who frequent this board have heard me say this before, so I apologize. When I was in med school, my ENT program was very small. There was, however, an excellent basic science lab that was leading the country in determining which cytokines were released or received by HNSCCa. They would pump out a paper every 4 weeks or so announcing a new discovery. It was relatively easy to jump on a project as a student, do some bench work for 6 weeks or so, and get attached to a paper or two. Never as first author. Usually buried somewhere in the middle, even if you did most of the writing.

I instead saw an unusual case of SSNHL following epidural anesthesia in a pregnant woman--she lost about 30dB which subsequently recovered. I did a literature search found that it had been written up once in 1919 and then again in 1984 but nothing else. I decided to put together a clinical trial where I would perform audiograms on pregnant women pre and post epidural. I wrote up the paper and submitted it. However, I did all of the work myself including the audiograms--we had an abandoned sound booth in our med center in an old ENT clinic that had not yet been rennovated. I got zero support from the 3 attendings on faculty who were too busy to help me out. We had 1 H&N guy and 2 general guys. Unfortunately, despite interesting findings, it was never published, but when I presented this to the programs to which I applied during interviews they were fascinated by the process and that I did it by myself.

Problem was, the programs that didn't interview me just saw a guy who had no research. These days, you don't want to be that guy. I had enough stuff that I did outside of medicine that made me interesting to programs despite research and that's probably what got my foot in the door. Now, 8 years later, I don't know if I'd be able to match as easily with the same application.

 

[vent]

Thanks for extensive answer. Very informative really.

What you do you think about H&N surgery research? Do you think it will be any of use?

Thanks

 

[resxn]

Thanks for extensive answer. Very informative really.

What you do you think about H&N surgery research? Do you think it will be any of use?

Thanks

I think H&N research is great, but again, quality not quantity.

I'm not sure what you mean by "of use." Of use in matching? Yes. Of use in getting you ahead in residency? Depends. Of use for relating to your friends? Probably not. Of use in playing better basketball? Definitely not. Of use for appreciating free time? Absolutely.

 

[vent]

thanks. Yes I meant use to be in admitted to a program

 

[aggernodi]

Personally, I would double dip... Try to get some basic research in ANY field. It doesn't have to be ENT specific. I picked a lab based on a reputation of treating students fairly and having students perform DOABLE independent research projects within a limited amount of time.

The lab I ended up working in was a rheumatology lab and I managed to get a basic science research paper (describing the cytokine output over time in CD4 and CD8 T cells during cardiits regression in mice infected with Lyme Disease) out as 2nd author in about 1 year. Quite a few programs were impressed with my research...it didn't really matter that it was in rheumatology. Basic science is basic science no matter the field.

Simultaneously, I wrote up clinical case reports for publication which are a piece of cake and can be done over a weekend. Again, the case reports I wrote up were actually in the field of general surgery, but a publication is a publication.

Keep your eyes open and if ANY opportunity pops up (whether in ENT or another field), grab it, and diligently exploit it. Your work ethic would be recognized and that counts more in my eyes than whether the work was done in ENT or not.

 

[resxn]

Keep your eyes open and if ANY opportunity pops up (whether in ENT or another field), grab it, and diligently exploit it. Your work ethic would be recognized and that counts more in my eyes than whether the work was done in ENT or not.

I'd agree with one corollary. In my chief year, one of the attendings on the admissions committee made a comment that it seemed to him students were hopping on research projects in other fields so that they could get their name on a paper, not because they really were interested in researching. He said it would be nice if he could see more students investing in a project, especially in their chosen field.

I'm not sure how pervasive that sentiment is, though.

I sort of agree with aggernodi, as a member of the admissions committee if I saw that research was done, it just showed extra work above and beyond the average med student. These days that's still just average for an ENT candidate, though. A great project outside of ENT to me held more weight than a bland project within it. A great ENT project, however, trumped all. (My algorithm when evaluating CV's for whatever that's worth.)

 

[vent]

well thanks for you valuable information. Doing research in ENT or ENT- department I want to kill 2 rabbits with one shot.
1. Research itself
2. Make connections and "shake hands" of ENT guys.
Otherwise it is really good to know that a quality researc in other fields will help too.
thansk

 

[cdql]

I'd agree with one corollary. In my chief year, one of the attendings on the admissions committee made a comment that it seemed to him students were hopping on research projects in other fields so that they could get their name on a paper, not because they really were interested in researching. He said it would be nice if he could see more students investing in a project, especially in their chosen field.

I'm not sure how pervasive that sentiment is, though.

I sort of agree with aggernodi, as a member of the admissions committee if I saw that research was done, it just showed extra work above and beyond the average med student. These days that's still just average for an ENT candidate, though. A great project outside of ENT to me held more weight than a bland project within it. A great ENT project, however, trumped all. (My algorithm when evaluating CV's for whatever that's worth.)

I would say that sentiment is pretty widespread. I've always been told that it's not what you do for research but how intelligently you can talk about what you did (obviously, being a high-ranking author on a published paper makes this all the more impressive) in an interview.

That being said, I think vent has the right idea. If you're truly interested in a particular field, it never hurts to get to know some of the names in the department so it's a good place to start when looking for research!

 

[aggernodi]

I guess my one reservation about focusing purely on ENT research projects is that by trying to find something (anything) to do a research project on within ENT, that you end up with nothing.

I've seen SO many students that have gotten burned that way. If you do find a project within ENT, that's truly great, but don't limit yourself from the get go. Look broadly.

In any case, there's always ENT related fields that one can look at... ie, head & neck radiation oncology, allergy/immunology, infectious diseases (sinusitis), head & neck heme/onc, etc.