Clinton urges bigger role for nonphysicians

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http://www.clinicalpsychiatrynews.c...=20&select3=20&terms1=clinton&terms2=&terms3=
Feb 2008 issue:
WASHINGTON — According to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), primary care physicians don't get enough pay or respect, and there aren't enough of them. Her response to the problem? The federal government should try to help increase the supply of primary care doctors, but in the meantime nurses, pharmacists, and others should fill the gaps in care.

“I'm intrigued by the fact that a lot of states are permitting pharmacists to give vaccines,” Sen. Clinton, a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, said at a health policy forum sponsored by Families USA and the Federation of American Hospitals. “What other functions can we delegate out, given appropriate oversight and training?”

For example, she said, “I think nurses have a great opportunity to do much more than they're doing. If we're not going to be able to quickly increase the number of primary care physicians, we need more advanced practice nurses, and they've got to be given the authority to make some of these [treatment] decisions, because otherwise people will go without care.”

Sen. Clinton, who is in her second Senate term, said that health care would be her top domestic priority if she were elected president.

“This is, for me, a moral question and an economic one,” she said. “Do we want to continue to be so unequal and unfair that, if you are uninsured and you go into the hospital with someone who is insured, you are more likely to die?”

Sen. Clinton said she learned a lot from her experience in her husband's first presidential term when she led his efforts to develop a universal health care plan.

“The fact that the White House took on the responsibility of writing the legislation turned out to be something of a mistake,” she said at the forum, part of a series of presidential candidate health policy forums underwritten by the California Endowment and the Ewing Marion Kauffman Foundation.

She said that now she sees the president's role on health care as “setting the goals and framework but not getting into the details.”

Further, the Clinton plan of the early 1990s was just too complicated, she said. “It was a source of concern to a lot of Americans who didn't understand how it could work, and it certainly wasn't presented in the best way.”

This time, Sen. Clinton has a different plan. The “American Health Choices Plan” would allow people to keep their current insurance coverage, but if they didn't like their current insurance or were uninsured, they could choose from a variety of plans similar to those offered to federal employees. They would also have the option of enrolling in a public plan similar to Medicare.

Sen. Clinton said coverage under her plan would be affordable and fully portable, and that insurers would be barred from discriminating against enrollees based on preexisting conditions.

Large employers would be required to offer coverage or help pay for employee health care; small businesses would not be required to offer coverage, but they would be given tax credits to encourage them to do so.

She estimated the cost of her plan at $110 billion per year and said it would be paid for by rolling back tax breaks for Americans who make more than $250,000 annually.

Sen. Clinton said critics who called her plan a back door to a single-payer, government-run health care system were either misinformed or were misrepresenting her proposal.

“I've included the public plan option because a lot of Americans want it,” she said. “It will not create a new bureaucracy; it will not create a government-run system unless you think Medicare is government run. In Medicare, you choose your doctor, you choose your hospital—you have tremendous choice.”

Sen. Clinton predicted that a lot of people would still choose a private plan because “if the private plans are competitive and smart, they'll offer a lot of new features. What are we afraid of? Let's see where competition leads us.”

Sen. Clinton also expressed her support of the increased use of electronic health records to make the health care system more organized. “It's very hard to think about having a system when you don't have any way for people to move [their records with them] from place to place and job to job.”

Paying providers based on their outcomes was another recent innovation mentioned by Sen. Clinton. She lauded the Bush administration for announcing that the Medicare program would no longer pay for care occurring as a result of medical errors. “That kind of connection between pay and performance, quality and results … makes sense. It's hard to do, but we have to experiment.”

The recent increase in cases of nosocomial infections such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus “should be a wake-up call for everybody,” Sen. Clinton said. “A couple of hospitals I'm aware of have changed their infection control policies; they have cut the rate of hospital-borne infections. Everybody should be expected to do that.”

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And people doubt that socialized medicine = windfall for mid-levels, further destruction of MD's...You don't think the AANA and other nurse organizations won't be pushing for this sort of stuff once they figure it out?
 
You know what? F*** it. Time to consider moving practices overseas.

Enjoy your sub-standard medical care, Hillary. Well, actually, you would have access to whoever you wanted because you're already filthy rich, but everyone else can wallow in the craphole that is nursing care.



it will not create a government-run system unless you think Medicare is government run

She is also a *****.
 
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And people doubt that socialized medicine = windfall for mid-levels, further destruction of MD's...You don't think the AANA and other nurse organizations won't be pushing for this sort of stuff once they figure it out?

Uh, they figured this out a long time ago dude.
 
dude - look at what is going on in Bangkok - more and more american board-certified guys are moving there --- charging cash for their services and they live like KINGS... without any malpractice threats (yet) --- and those hospitals are decked out like brand new tertiary centers.

south-east asians are flying into bangkok for their care -and oddly, some americans are flying there because their care is cheaper over there...

btw, wasn't bill clinton's mom a CRNA? or some relative of his?
 
Ask Billy Boy, whose mother is a CRNA, how many CRNAs participated in his care when he had his heart surgery.

What's good for the goose is definitely not good for the gander. The hypocrisy is breathtaking. This is why Hillary, if elected (which won't happen... she's not even going to get the nomination), would completely **** up the healthcare system... just like she tried in the mid-90's when her hubby was in charge.

-copro
 
Ask Billy Boy, whose mother is a CRNA, how many CRNAs participated in his care when he had his heart surgery.

What's good for the goose is definitely not good for the gander. The hypocrisy is breathtaking. This is why Hillary, if elected (which won't happen... she's not even going to get the nomination), would completely **** up the healthcare system... just like she tried in the mid-90's when her hubby was in charge.

-copro

Yeah, Bill's mom was a well known CRNA in Arkansas..ask anyone..well known for killing alot of patients!

JWK, Yeah, I know they figured it out a long time ago..but some people still doubt it...
 
dude - look at what is going on in Bangkok - more and more american board-certified guys are moving there --- charging cash for their services and they live like KINGS... without any malpractice threats (yet) --- and those hospitals are decked out like brand new tertiary centers.

south-east asians are flying into bangkok for their care -and oddly, some americans are flying there because their care is cheaper over there...

btw, wasn't bill clinton's mom a CRNA? or some relative of his?


Opening a hospital in another country sounds like an intriguing idea to me. I've thought about a resort-style with spa and all that jazz-type hospital in a tropical location somewhere in Latin America where you can get american and canadian patients to come down, get their care and enjoy a vacation at the same time.

I would go to either the caribbean or central america for their proximity to the states, great tropical weather, and cheap land. Roatan in honduras or the nicaraguan caribbean are only a two-hour flight from Miami or 3hrs from Houston. (We can get JPP to fly the planes).

I think it would sell because patients would not have to travel as far as thailand or india(can take over a day just to get there). They can fly down there on a friday, spend the weekend and be back to work on monday morning after a relaxing vacation and their outpatient surgery. With all the technology available, you can even have a partnership with a U.S. hospital for f/u care if needed. Now with electronic records and digital imaging, I believe this should be possible.

Those countries are offering ridiculous tax incentives to foreign businesses setting up shop there and you don't have to worry about all the lawyers and malpractice crap.
 
The opportunities overseas are really really opening up quite nicely for American BC'd docs. We are the only country in the world that has the sort of radical nursing leadership which states foolishness such as "DNP > MD" in Forbes magazine. My buddies from around the world freely say that American GME and hospitals are the best, but that we are in bigtime trouble if we allow the mid-levels to keep creeping up.

Opening a hospital in another country sounds like an intriguing idea to me. I've thought about a resort-style with spa and all that jazz-type hospital in a tropical location somewhere in Latin America where you can get american and canadian patients to come down there, get their care and enjoy a vacation at the same time.

I would go to either the caribbean or central america for their proximity to the states, great tropical weather, and cheap land. Roatan in honduras or the nicaraguan caribbean are only a two-hour flight from Miami or 3hrs from Houston. (We can get JPP to fly the planes).

I think it would sell because patients would not have to travel as far as thailand or india(can take over a day just to get there). They can fly down there on a friday, spend the weekend and be back to work on monday morning after a relaxing vacation and their outpatient surgery. With all the technology available, you can even have a partnership with a U.S. hospital for f/u care if needed. Now with electronic records and digital imaging, I believe this should be possible.

Those countries are offering ridiculous tax incentives to foreign businesses setting up shop there and you don't have to worry about all the lawyers and malpractice crap.
 
The opportunities overseas are really really opening up quite nicely for American BC'd docs. We are the only country in the world that has the sort of radical nursing leadership which states foolishness such as "DNP > MD" in Forbes magazine. My buddies from around the world freely say that American GME and hospitals are the best, but that we are in bigtime trouble if we allow the mid-levels to keep creeping up.

Wow, there really is an article in Forbes saying this. I just looked it up- Forbes article.
Its absolutely despicable that a magazine with a name such a Forbes would publish such a biased article with reckless statements such as "In other words, as a patient, you get the medical knowledge of a physician, with the added skills of a nursing professional." In addition the insinuation that physicians come into the world with no real clinical experience, only book knowledge is just plain insulting. I can't even imagine how many hours I've put into direct patient care over my last 2 years of med school along with my 2.5 yrs of residency to date.
 
Wow, there really is an article in Forbes saying this. I just looked it up- Forbes article.
Its absolutely despicable that a magazine with a name such a Forbes would publish such a biased article with reckless statements such as "In other words, as a patient, you get the medical knowledge of a physician, with the added skills of a nursing professional." In addition the insinuation that physicians come into the world with no real clinical experience, only book knowledge is just plain insulting. I can't even imagine how many hours I've put into direct patient care over my last 2 years of med school along with my 2.5 yrs of residency to date.


Who Will Be Your Doctor?
Mary O' Neil Mundinger 11.28.07, 6:00 AM ET




A quietly emerging trend in health care is likely to have a major effect on who will diagnose and treat your illness in the coming years. Rather than a physician, that comprehensive-care provider may very well be a nurse--who also happens to be a doctor.

As more physicians move toward specialties and away from general care, there is a troubling lack of providers in this critical health-care sector. The need is even more urgent in light of the growing number of Americans who are suffering from chronic illnesses such as asthma, diabetes and hypertension and require long-term disease treatment and coordination of care. Many others who survive extraordinary medical interventions or trauma need sustaining care for the rest of their lives.

The doctor of nursing practice (DNP) is a new level of clinical practice that is attracting a rapidly growing number of nursing professionals. This doctoral degree enables advanced-practice nurses to gain the knowledge and skills necessary to practice independently in every clinical setting.

In Pictures: Innovative Health-Care Solutions
DNPs are the ideal candidates to fill the primary-care void and deliver a new, more comprehensive brand of care that starts with but goes well beyond conventional medical practice. In addition to expert diagnosis and treatment, DNP training places an emphasis on preventive care, risk reduction and promoting good health practices. These clinicians are peerless prevention specialists and coordinators of complex care. In other words, as a patient, you get the medical knowledge of a physician, with the added skills of a nursing professional.

Truly comprehensive care requires both medical and nursing skills, and nurses with a clinical doctorate have that complement of abilities. Skilled at identifying nuanced changes of condition, and intervening early in a patient's illness, these clinicians are also expert at utilizing community and family resources, and incorporating patient values into a family-centered model of care.

Once patients move beyond the common bias that only doctors of medicine can provide top-flight care, they typically come to appreciate these added benefits. Most important, research has demonstrated that DNPs, with their eight years of education and extensive clinical experience, can achieve clinical outcomes comparable to those of primary-care physicians.

As more advanced-practice nurses pursue this new level of clinical training, we are working to create a board certification to establish a consistent standard of competence. To that end, we are working to enable DNPs to take standardized exams similar in content and format to the test that physicians must pass to earn their M.D. degrees. By allowing DNPs to take this test, the medical establishment will give patients definitive evidence that these skilled clinicians have the ability to provide comprehensive care indistinguishable from physicians.

Along with a doctorate and the title of "doctor," the fact that a nurse practitioner has fulfilled this certification requirement will instill confidence in patients that DNPs have the expertise to serve as their health-care provider of choice.

Nurse practitioners are reimbursed by Medicare and Medicaid in every state, but only variably by commercial insurance carriers. That is certain to change soon, as these DNP graduates prove they are the logical choice to become the new comprehensive-care clinicians.

As this valuable new resource grows and becomes fully established, the health-care system's ability to meet the nation's desire for accessible, high-quality care will be greatly improved, yielding better health for all. Medical specialists are in short supply; patients increasingly need their care. With the advent of the DNP clinicians, we can have both dedicated, brilliant specialists and effective health management. It is the future we all need and want.

In Pictures: Innovative Health-Care Solutions
Mary O' Neil Mundinger, Dr.P.H., is the Dean of the Columbia University School of Nursing, which was the first to pioneer the DNP concept.
 
i posted a reply to the forbes article on their website. would encourage EVERYONE to do the same.
 
Now granted, I haven't taken it yet - but could a DNP really pass step 1?

Unfortunately, Step I does not really reflect the skills needed to practice medicine. It simply tests basic medical scientific knowledge. I don't think I could pass Step I if I was forced to take it today (and I scored very well on it when I took it in 2002).

Sadly, much of medicine is becoming fractured and algorithm-based. Much, if not the majority, of what you see in the hospital is the same thing in different patients. My question is this: if we are going to practice via protocols, who's going to write those protocols?

Medicine is changing. You either need to learn to accept it, or get political and empowered and be willing to resist the changes be advocated. The COGME already screwed us by limiting the number of medical school spots (now trying to be caught-up by DOs and IMGs) for the past twenty years when they advocated that there was a physician surplus in the U.S. Suddenly, over the past few years they've changed their tune and are saying that there will be a 200,000 physician shortage by the year 2020.

Who's going to fill that gap? (Sort of rhetorical question.) Hint: It costs a lot more to train a doctor than it does a nurse.

-copro
 
Now granted, I haven't taken it yet - but could a DNP really pass step 1?

Unlikely, but it's a moot point because the NBME is planning to combine steps 1 and 2. To pass this monster, you have to not only know the "what to do next" but also the "why" at the pathophysiological level. The why part is what separates doctors from midlevels and why we're spending so many more years of schooling.
 
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