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- Thread starter GerlieG
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More and more US schools are opening, esp DO schools. Residency will give US grads preference.
Why didn't you get into a US med school?
Why didn't you get into a US med school?
D
deleted480308
If you want to be a doctor in the US the best plan is to go to a US school
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Yes, very difficult now. Find a way to get into a U.S. school. I wouldn't take on debt to go to school outside the U.S. anymore. I am a U.S. citizen IMG.
Psych is getting competitive now... Try to get into a US school (MD or DO).
You should reconsider PMHNP. I know you won't have the knowledge and prestige of being a physician, but the few PMHNP I know do extremely well financially.
You should reconsider PMHNP. I know you won't have the knowledge and prestige of being a physician, but the few PMHNP I know do extremely well financially.
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I think the knowledge is very important in being a physician
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There are some international medical schools that are head and shoulders superior to some of the US for profit, non-university based medical schools that do not run hospitals, have much clinical faculty or graduate PhD students with the associated professors of anatomy, embryology, biochemistry and so on. Having said this, it is also true that it is hard for programs to know the lay of the foreign medical school land as it is so large and changing. The risk benefit analysis of doubling down if you don’t get into medical school and then go into debt as a future IMG is looking worse. You would be looking for training in 5 years at the earliest so who knows, but it is going in the wrong direction currently. It is probably easier to get into medical school now than it was a decade ago. If you can’t get in now, be even more cautious in my opinion.
This is sort of a hybrid “No means no” campaign for pre-Meds who should see interviews with some IMGs who hit dead ends with large debt. If you get into the Imperial College of Medicine in London, I’m sure you will be more than OK. If you find yourself in a class where none of the students are from the country you are in and you have to change countries to get any clinical experience, be careful.
This is sort of a hybrid “No means no” campaign for pre-Meds who should see interviews with some IMGs who hit dead ends with large debt. If you get into the Imperial College of Medicine in London, I’m sure you will be more than OK. If you find yourself in a class where none of the students are from the country you are in and you have to change countries to get any clinical experience, be careful.
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My experience with PMHNPs has been very bad. I know it's anecdotal, but frankly I spend a fair portion of my time fixing NP management of patients. If you go that route, seek as much additional education as you can, as it seems like NP programs don't provide much. As others have said consider reapplying in the US, including to DO schools.
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I echo tellme sentiments. I spend a chunk of time fixing management mistakes from ARNPs. I'm doubly cautious of any previous diagnoses made by ARNPs, too. One recently was a Bipolar II diagnosis simply because patient was irritable in context of driving. Records support nothing for clinical history to support Bipolar II besides irritability. I've since struggled to get this patient off an antipsychotic for past year, and the anxiety disorder has done wonders with mid range prozac.
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I've got a great business idea. Part-time online PA degree program. Require less in-class time and more flexible online options to capture more of the market.
Wait, there's 8 other programs like this out there.
Wait, there's 8 other programs like this out there.
would love to hear more of your thoughts behind this statement. my interest in piqued
I think I am well aware of that as a physician... But given that OP was asking about medical school abroad, I think it's fair to point out to OP there is a better plan B than going to a non US med school.
Not everyone can get into US med school..
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JKinSC got it right. The bottleneck is now becoming Graduate Medical Education and the compliance in the system is the IMG pool that is less needed.
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Eleven years ago, when I graduated from one of the "big four" for-profit Caribbean med schools, the situation was different. Back then, there were way more qualified applicants than med school seats in U.S. and even more so Canadian med schools, and as a result these for profit international schools filled an important gap in the need to train physicians. Half of my med school class were former nurses, teachers, wall street accountants, lawyers, PAs, and Canadians with excellent GPAs. The other half were students who were capable but had some blemish on their application or were not U.S. or Canadian citizens and had difficulty in their own countries for known reasons like war and inequal access. (i.e.; Baghdad, India.) And yes, a few flat-out had no business being in a U.S. or other med school but were provided a chance to earn a career in medicine with very hard work. I'm talking about the handful of reputable schools that had over a 90 percent match rate of their students that had agreements with U.S. academic hospitals for clinical rotations, and as such also are recognized by all 50 state medical boards as suitable for licensure of their graduates and are able to offer U.S. federal student loans.(There have been and are lots of diploma mills.)
The success of some off shore medical schools and their minor encroachment on the medical school market did not go unnoticed by the Association of American Medical Colleges, who for years had ignored the the great need for expansion of med school seats. Supply of physicians is restricted in part by collusion of the AAMC and AMA which desire to avoid saturating the job market with physicians, which would lower average physician compensation. (This has happened to attorneys.) In order to maintain control of the educational market, and nobly train more badly needed physicians, universities were encouraged to expand med school class sizes or even start entirely new med schools, and DOs were normalized as equally desirable to MDs. I make no value judgement here, I'm just telling it how it is.
So, long story short, more seats available in the U.S. = easier matriculation into a U.S. med school = offshore schools now attract a somewhat lower standard of students than just a few years ago and struggle to keep their agreements with clinical training sites in the U.S. And, oh, yeah...no residency places available for IMGs now because they are filled with U.S. graduates. You see, med school seats were increased but the number of residency program spots were not. Doing that requires additional medicaid funding for training from Congress for hospitals to expand training slots. And the current Senate does not want to increase Medicaid funds.
Thanks for listening to my podcast and smash subscribe if you like modern medical school education history.
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There has been a similar increased in residency spots as well. Overall, it is a wash.
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Citation please
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A small increase, yes, but not enough to accommodate all U.S. graduates and nowhere near enough to accommodate IMGs.
Page 7 total # of spots in 2010: 25,520
NRMP MATCH STATISTICS - 2022
The latest NRMP Match Statistics! See the numbers for MD/DO match rates, IMG/FMG match rates, and a breakdown of competitiveness by specialty.
lifeofamedstudent.com
Total number of spots In 2020: 37,256
An increased of 46%
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1 - The 2010 data doesn’t include available DO residency spots which are largely included in the 2020 data, so just comparing the 2010 and 2020 charting the outcome data in that regard is misleading.
Page 7 total # of spots in 2010: 25,520
NRMP MATCH STATISTICS - 2022
The latest NRMP Match Statistics! See the numbers for MD/DO match rates, IMG/FMG match rates, and a breakdown of competitiveness by specialty.
Total number of spots In 2020: 37,256
An increased of 46%
2 - What was the corresponding increase in total US MD/DO med students in that same 10 year window?
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Cant waste my time to look for the stats but the corresponding increase is similar. Hence, US MD/DO residency placement rate has been overing around 98-99% for many years... Believe it or not, FMG/IMG residency placement rate has been slightly increasing in the past 3 yrs.
In addition, there are some residency spots outside of the match...
Nothing has changed. The sky is not falling
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There are many students going to Carribean schools who are US students that cannot match in the US.
And if you can't bother to look for the citation, then you cannot back up your argument
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GME funding and GME training capacity has climbed a little over all (not psych specific). This isn't even close to keeping up with the increase in medical school graduates from what everyone is saying at meetings I go to. I think psych is growing space faster than other specialties, but the over all trend for IMGs across all specialties is down.
