MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

Started by kraskadva
Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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getfat said:
Haha. Props to anyone that has the mental discipline to go on > 20 honestly.

I have interview #6 this AM. Already debating capping out at #10 and calling it a day.

I feel like I would give no flips if I was on interview #20.

"tell me about myself? If only I wrote a 1 page document that did this and why I would be a good fit for a program"
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Finished interview #7 today and I don't know how I can make it to #15.

Regarding the match chances and hoarding, there will always be people who fall through the cracks, like those who ranked 16+ and didnt match. Let people do what they want. If someone can interview at 20 places, by all means do it. If you cancel half your interviews, cool, then do it. But theres nothing stopping people from hoarding, the system is designed that way.

Don't be upset at the applicant, be upset about the system.
 
12jas said:
Okay you do you. But I hold my assertion its extremely rare. That person had a .06% chance of that happening


Wow sure go for it hoard interviews I don't care. But the risk you are referring to is .06% lets not blow this out of proportion.
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It's also not always about SOAPing, but being happy with your match. There are a ton of programs out there that just need warm bodies to power the machine. If someone is aiming for the biggest couple dozen academic centers, they're extremely unlikely to SOAP as long as they include some community programs too, but may be extremely unhappy to land there
 
12jas said:
Okay you do you. But I hold my assertion its extremely rare. That person had a .06% chance of that happening


Wow sure go for it hoard interviews I don't care. But the risk you are referring to is .06% lets not blow this out of proportion.
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I see both sides of this discussion. Yeah, the data shows its extremely rare to slip through the cracks. But it still does happen and it even happens to people who you wouldn't expect, like top applicants.

Like the bigindian said, it's a system failure really. And especially in this chaotic year, so unpredictable. I see why people would want 20+ interviews even if the probability tops off after 13 or whatever
 
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12jas said:
Okay you do you. But I hold my assertion its extremely rare. That person had a .06% chance of that happening
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'That person' was me, and let me tell you, there's little comfort in the fact that there was only a 0.06% chance of it happening once it actually does. I'd say that knowledge made it worse, not better.

I did me, and I did what you're recommending. I cancelled a few interviews because I thought I was sitting pretty. I don't think that was a wrong decision, but I also don't think that anyone is obligated to do so. I would just encourage people to think carefully before deciding to skip interviews...on one hand, it probably won't matter. On the other, the only benefit you gain is a few less hours on Zoom and the props of a few vocal people on SDN. And when that 0.06% does turn up, you can sleep easier knowing you maximized your chances.
 
12jas said:
For the love of God you don't need to go on 20+ interviews for IM. The data doesn't lie. The above poster that went on 13 and had to SOAP is extremely rare and I bet if you dig deeper there is a reason why (IMG, board failure, really bad interviewer). Sure if you have a red flag go on as many as you want but if you are an average applicant it's asinine to think you are going to be the 1/150 person that doesn't match with a rank list that long.

Edit: The actual number for USMD in IM to not match with a rank list 13+ is 1 in 1,580.
For a DO that number is 1 in 444.
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No red flags, but still scared. I'll probably do 25+ since I just don't have anything to lose
 
efle said:
It's also not always about SOAPing, but being happy with your match. There are a ton of programs out there that just need warm bodies to power the machine. If someone is aiming for the biggest couple dozen academic centers, they're extremely unlikely to SOAP as long as they include some community programs too, but may be extremely unhappy to land there
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I agree I think if you get an interview at place that you think will outrank a few of your bottoms its worth it to take the interview even if that puts you 15+. I have about 18 invites and plan to attend 15 (some people say that number is hoarding) but if I pick up something late season that is better I will attend that interview in order to increase my chances of matching somewhere better. The bottom half of my rank list currently is filled with new/undesirable programs.
 
mehc012 said:
'That person' was me, and let me tell you, there's little comfort in the fact that there was only a 0.06% chance of it happening once it actually does. I'd say that knowledge made it worse, not better.

I did me, and I did what you're recommending. I cancelled a few interviews because I thought I was sitting pretty. I don't think that was a wrong decision, but I also don't think that anyone is obligated to do so. I would just encourage people to think carefully before deciding to skip interviews...on one hand, it probably won't matter. On the other, the only benefit you gain is a few less hours on Zoom and the props of a few vocal people on SDN. And when that 0.06% does turn up, you can sleep easier knowing you maximized your chances.
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Truly sorry that happened to you. The stuff of nightmares for sure. I hope you are killing it this year. It is insane to think we work so damn hard in this process only to get sh** on by a broken system.
 
12jas said:
Truly sorry that happened to you. The stuff of nightmares for sure. I hope you are killing it this year. It is insane to think we work so damn hard in this process only to get sh** on by a broken system.
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Thanks. Intern year is going well. I thought that would help me in the reapplication, but nope. Prelims get shafted in the application cycle, because everyone assumes that there 'must' be a big red flag somewhere and don't want to bother to look into it. I just hope that the small community programs that yield protected me out last year put me somewhere high enough to match this time around.

I have hopes for my current program, though, even though they usually don't keep prelims. I've been doing a good job for them this year and I hope I've made an impression. I'm willing to re-do intern year to stay here (especially since it looks like I'll be re-doing intern year no matter where I go, lol!)
 
Got this just now:
Dear applicant,

Thank you for your interest in the University of Pittsburgh Emergency Medicine Residency. We received a large number of applications this year from highly qualified candidates, such as yourself. Unfortunately, at this time, we do not have any open interview spots.

The Residency Selection Committee is continuing to review applications. Should an open interview spot arise, we will begin making additional offers to interview.
We are most appreciative of your application to our program!
Thank you for your patience.

So I'm guessing this isn't a rejection, but not a true wait list either. I see it as you haven't been rejected, hang in there and perhaps we'll shoot you an invite if you're lucky kind of thing.
 
Oligodinero said:
Got this just now:
Dear applicant,

Thank you for your interest in the University of Pittsburgh Emergency Medicine Residency. We received a large number of applications this year from highly qualified candidates, such as yourself. Unfortunately, at this time, we do not have any open interview spots.

The Residency Selection Committee is continuing to review applications. Should an open interview spot arise, we will begin making additional offers to interview.
We are most appreciative of your application to our program!
Thank you for your patience.

So I'm guessing this isn't a rejection, but not a true wait list either. I see it as you haven't been rejected, hang in there and perhaps we'll shoot you an invite if you're lucky kind of thing.
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Wait, what? They filled all their slots before even finishing their stack of apps? Why would they hamstring their own cohort like that
 
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efle said:
Wait, what? They filled all their slots before even finishing their stack of apps? Why would they hamstring their own cohort like that
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They sorted them based on some metric, and filled as they went, going down from the top.
Now they only have to sort a 240 step scorer if one of their 260s backs out.
 
efle said:
Wait, what? They filled all their slots before even finishing their stack of apps? Why would they hamstring their own cohort like that
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I’m on a waitlist for a program that did that too. They essentially planned for normal amount of interviews and obviously this isn’t normal
 
You shall know the Truth said:
I received an interview outside of eras, it was sent to my email from the coordinator. Are there any problems with this in terms of eras/ranking?
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no. NRMP is separate from ERAS, and only requires that to match that the program puts down your number and that you put down the program’s number. Nothing else matters for ranking.
 
There was this one guy last year on SDN who didn’t match anesthesiology with 250/251 and 12 interviews. He cancelled 4 of those interviews based on advice here or from his school and ended up not matching. He tried again this year for Advanced, Categorical and R positions and went on 10 interviews but once again did not match. The system is broken and the odds of matching after failing the first time is abysmal.
 
12jas said:
For the love of God you don't need to go on 20+ interviews for IM. The data doesn't lie. The above poster that went on 13 and had to SOAP is extremely rare and I bet if you dig deeper there is a reason why (IMG, board failure, really bad interviewer). Sure if you have a red flag go on as many as you want but if you are an average applicant it's asinine to think you are going to be the 1/150 person that doesn't match with a rank list that long.

Edit: The actual number for USMD in IM to not match with a rank list 13+ is 1 in 1,580.
For a DO that number is 1 in 444.
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Heck, from last year, even 7 ranks was 136/139 (97.8%) and 8 was 200/203 (98.5%), pretty damn good imo
 
Doggeronie said:
No red flags, but still scared. I'll probably do 25+ since I just don't have anything to lose
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if you have atleast 2 programs that go unfilled on your prospective rank list. I think you're chances of going matched are better than most.

Yeah if you have 25 university or highly desirable locations on your list. You have a higher chance of going unmatched.
 
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mehc012 said:
Did plenty of practice interviews with good feedback
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No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
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Well not sure what OP applied to last year...but maybe OP interviewed at programs where he/she unfortunately was unfit...got ranked but somehow they got their top people instead of lower...competitive speciality also only take 1-2 per year so really he/she really need to be top 4-5 to match etc...
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
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?? That's a strange way to respond to someone who mentions that they did interview practice. How do you know he or she needed to practice interviewing? What if they just chose to practice and prep for them?
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
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People slip through the cracks every year, some of them have red flags, some are average, some are excellent. I remember seeing posts by some medstagrammer who applied derm, interviewed at all top programs, and then failed to match. Interviews and ranks are not 100% based on you as an individual, it's not some assessment of you directly. Programs are also looking at other applicants, you aren't rank #31 in a vacuum, you're rank #31 compared to other people who are all the other numbers on the rank list. They also have to take into consideration "will the person rank us highly", have we historically recruited people from this region, what relationships do we need to uphold with our own students/similar institutions, etc etc. A program choosing other people over a certain person doesn't automatically make that person's application inherently problematic.

Edit: Everyone I know did at least one practice interview bc it was offered by one of our deans who was a former PD. I am so glad I got to test out some of my answers to common questions and get feedback. Practice makes sense.
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
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Wait how do you know that exactly?
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
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Dude this is straight up victim blaming lol
 
Oedipa Maas said:
People slip through the cracks every year, some of them have red flags, some are average, some are excellent. I remember seeing posts by some medstagrammer who applied derm, interviewed at all top programs, and then failed to match. Interviews and ranks are not 100% based on you as an individual, it's not some assessment of you directly. Programs are also looking at other applicants, you aren't rank #31 in a vacuum, you're rank #31 compared to other people who are all the other numbers on the rank list. They also have to take into consideration "will the person rank us highly", have we historically recruited people from this region, what relationships do we need to uphold with our own students/similar institutions, etc etc. A program choosing other people over a certain person doesn't automatically make that person's application inherently problematic.

Edit: Everyone I know did at least one practice interview bc it was offered by one of our deans who was a former PD. I am so glad I got to test out some of my answers to common questions and get feedback. Practice makes sense.
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Don't forget the under-table phone calls. Those should not be allowed in my opinion. If we already put in a resume with LORs, and interviews. Why should some get phone call vs the others?. Also, some top name program phone call will weight more than lower. It can help people moving up rank list
 
frenchyn said:
Don't forget the under-table phone calls. Those should not be allowed in my opinion. If we already put in a resume with LORs, and interviews. Why should some get phone call vs the others?. Also, some top name program phone call will weight more than lower. It can help people moving up rank list
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Because it's not just what you know, it's also who you know and who is willing to go up to bat for you. Sucks, but this is life
 
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Dr. Rafiki said:
No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
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And this attitude is exactly why I am struggling to even get a foot in the door this year
 
Dr. Rafiki said:
No offense to you personally, but none of the people I know to be very good interviewers have needed to practice interviewing. Perhaps your interview skills hindered you more than you realize. After all, "no reason at all" seems far less reasonable than "being a less-than-ideal interviewer" as a reason to not match.
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You're setting some Olympic records in the "Jumping to Conclusions" event...
 
Just to make things more fun...I'm pretty sure I'm coming down with something. Most likely just a URI but in the age of COVID really hard not to wonder whether you might have been exposed. Called student health and I don't qualify to be tested given not SOB, no fever >72hrs, etc. I guess I'll screen positive on the pre-shift questionnaire tomorrow and then see what happens? I guess my interviewers for the rest of the week can be extra grateful everything is virtual this year (I started sneezing during my zoom interview last Friday).
 
Naruhodo said:
Just to make things more fun...I'm pretty sure I'm coming down with something. Most likely just a URI but in the age of COVID really hard not to wonder whether you might have been exposed. Called student health and I don't qualify to be tested given not SOB, no fever >72hrs, etc. I guess I'll screen positive on the pre-shift questionnaire tomorrow and then see what happens? I guess my interviewers for the rest of the week can be extra grateful everything is virtual this year (I started sneezing during my zoom interview last Friday).
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Wild how screening criteria is so drastically different in different areas. The threshold is a lot lower in my area; we recently re-shut down tho.
 
It’s funny that I’m literally suffering through my weakness that I said to the program today during the interview, and it’s caused by said interview. I can’t stop fixating on a couple times I wasn’t as sharp as I would have liked, how my dogs were barking a few times during the general zoom room (not the actual interviews of me), and how I was asked medical questions which I was only able to muster a vague response for. (Especially after the program said 5 times between interview scheduling, interview confirmation, zoom links, and the PD welcome today that we wouldn’t get any medical questions at all.)

TLDR: can’t stop think about my interview performance and now it’s making me so anxious my skin hurts and I feel sick to my stomach.
 
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Didn’t one of the PDs write here that IM interviews usually don’t affect ranking as much? I tell myself this before every interview to not psyc myself.
 
sunshinefl said:
It’s funny that I’m literally suffering through my weakness that I said to the program today during the interview, and it’s caused by said interview. I can’t stop fixating on a couple times I wasn’t as sharp as I would have liked, how my dogs were barking a few times during the general zoom room (not the actual interviews of me), and how I was asked medical questions which I was only able to muster a vague response for. (Especially after the program said 5 times between interview scheduling, interview confirmation, zoom links, and the PD welcome today that we wouldn’t get any medical questions at all.)

TLDR: can’t stop think about my interview performance and now it’s making me so anxious my skin hurts and I feel sick to my stomach.
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people ask medical questions???????? Thats insane.
 
libertyyne said:
people ask medical questions???????? Thats insane.
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I was warned this might happen for a particular program (at least I thought I knew which program it was based on there being a small number in our geographic area) but then it didn't. Either 1) They got enough feedback from past applicants that it left a bad impression that they nixed it 2) They nixed it due to virtual interviews or 3) I just lucked out because I did my sub-i and got a letter from there so maybe they let me off easy? Apparently it used to be like rapid fire clinical scenarios, "80yo M comes in febrile to 38.5 with 2 days of L flank pain. What are your first steps and differential?", etc.
 
Prehealth1011 said:
Didn’t one of the PDs write here that IM interviews usually don’t affect ranking as much? I tell myself this before every interview to not psyc myself.
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I think it's like your 1 page statement, people want to believe they matter because it's personal but really you have to be an outlier (good or bad) to change your match. As uncomfortable as it is, I think random dumb chance is a much bigger player
 
sunshinefl said:
Yeah so, that’s what funny about it. I never would have imagined that to be a thing. Until they felt the need to repeatedly tell me they wouldn’t... and then did. It would be funny if I wasn’t so caught off guard.
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Telling you the contrary so many times and then giving you medical questions anyway is a dick move enough to be a huge red flag for me if I were interviewing there.
 
Quick funny story about my interview yesterday... In the midst of the panel interview, there was a loud bang in the living room. Totally threw me off while I was answering a question. Turns out one of our cats jumped into our christmas tree and the tree fell right on over lol. These cats can be so obnoxious sometimes
 
sunshinefl said:
Yeah so, that’s what funny about it. I never would have imagined that to be a thing. Until they felt the need to repeatedly tell me they wouldn’t... and then did. It would be funny if I wasn’t so caught off guard.
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I’d say DNR but this isn’t a normal year so rank last lol. My SO is in IM and that turned her off so bad she didn’t rank them. In addition to the fact that this was the same program that told her “If I could get rid of all MDs in this hospital I would. They have no idea what they’re doing”.
 
I’ve heard of some IM/prelim programs asking applicants dumb crap like to give an example of a discharge summary start to finish. Whatever.
 
^Is it weird I like those questions more? I had a "why DO" at a DO IM program. That threw me off. I've gotten medical questions and so has my rad and fm friends.
 
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