MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

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Ended up with 16 DR (literally got one today so I guess the cycles still going) and will probably end up ranking 15. I would’ve cancelled the one but it was early in the cycle when I was stressed about my number of invites. But ultimately super happy with the places I have and the amount of overlap I have with my SO for couples matching. I think we’d be pretty happy matching anywhere in our top 8 and can make 9-15 work worst case scenario
 
Did you ever hear back from that new Broward North program?
Yeah I interviewed last month! Pretty good program they are building there! Not sure how high I'll rank it yet though! Might rank it over some established Florida HCAs though mainly cause of location
 
How dumb am I to turn down an interview from my home program. Average DO family med applicant in the Midwest. I attended 14 other interviews and honestly rather soap than stay in the same location for 3 more years. I feel like 14 ranks is enough to match?
 
How dumb am I to turn down an interview from my home program. Average DO family med applicant in the Midwest. I attended 14 other interviews and honestly rather soap than stay in the same location for 3 more years. I feel like 14 ranks is enough to match?
The problem w cancel home program is not just...you don’t match there...but also you will burn your bridge with sole who probably know you the most and vouch for you...Remember if you have to soap and need someone to vouch or reach out for you, probably your home program people will do that...I would just do the interview anyway...you will live w one day interview just to avoid that scenario...then rank them last...
 
How dumb am I to turn down an interview from my home program. Average DO family med applicant in the Midwest. I attended 14 other interviews and honestly rather soap than stay in the same location for 3 more years. I feel like 14 ranks is enough to match?

14 ranks will be enough to match for sure, but I would just do it and then rank them last (or not rank), but don't burn the bridge prior to match day, as they may make calls for you or vouch for you etc.
 
The problem w cancel home program is not just...you don’t match there...but also you will burn your bridge with sole who probably know you the most and vouch for you...Remember if you have to soap and need someone to vouch or reach out for you, probably your home program people will do that...I would just do the interview anyway...you will live w one day interview just to avoid that scenario...then rank them last...
14 ranks will be enough to match for sure, but I would just do it and then rank them last (or not rank), but don't burn the bridge prior to match day, as they may make calls for you or vouch for you etc.
But if they fall below OP on their list, they’ll know OP didn’t rank them. Don’t see the point of OP doesn’t at least rank them last.
 
But if they fall below OP on their list, they’ll know OP didn’t rank them. Don’t see the point of OP doesn’t at least rank them last.
It is a bullet OP has to bite...match at somewhere you don’t want to...or take that chance of not matching and scramble letters for SOAP or next cycle...because I am sure they won’t write him/her letter if he/she cancels the interview. The general rule in medicine is don’t burn your bridge...it is definitely more true and important before he/she matches.
 
Posting an update on my season bc I think future applicants (particularly those who feel like underdogs) can hopefully learn from it to strategize for next year.

Specialty: EM
Bio: Midwest DO 22x/23x 55x/59x. Bottom half pre-clinical class rank (top 1/3 clinical rank tho).
Letters: 1 eSLOE, 1 Subspecialty SLOE (ultrasound), 2 non residency SLOEs (community EDs my home program lets us rotate at).
Applied: 78 (too many. Was gunna apply 50 but with COVID I got spooked increased)
Invites/Rejections/Waitlist/Cancelled: 27 invites, 11 rejections, 2 waitlists, 38 ghosts
  • 15 Community
  • 12 University/County (mostly mid-tier, 1 Top 5 program)
  • 4 of these were former DO programs
  • 2 From the programs I rotated at.
  • 8 Invites from programs I networked with(Attending socials, Contacting residents, EMRA Residency fair etc).
Letters of Interest:
  • Sent 10 (Sent to any program that if I was offered an invite I would rank in top 1-5)
  • 3 invites post LOI (not sure if I got the invites bc of the LOI bc the invites like a month+ after lol)
  • 2 Waitlists post LOI, ghosted by the rest.
Invite Timeline:
  • I got the majority (17) in Oct/November, another 6 in December and 4 in January.
Cancelled: 11. ranks = 16 (13 uni/county, 3 community). I Feel bad bc I planned to rank 12-15 but I got 2-3 invites in Jan that were in my top 5 and already went on my other interviews. I would have cancelled a few more if I got those ones earlier.
Interview distribution:
  • 14 Midwest/North (included Chicago/Michigan/Minnesota in this)
  • 4 Northeast (NY/NJ)
  • 8 South/Southeast
  • 1 West coast/PNW (only applied to 2-3 programs here)
Application Strategy:
  • So going in a was just praying to get at least 10-12 invites and wasn't feeling confident as I felt very average/below average stat-wise. So I applied to 10-15ish programs I considered safeties. Obvi there is no formal definition of a "safety" program, but I considered any brand new program former DO program in my geographic region a safety . I tried to make close to 1/2 of them in my region (Midwest/South/North), and did not apply to very many coast programs (mainly bc I didn't want to go there). I also didn't apply to any program that didn't have at least on DO in each class (or if they had a class without a DO they at least had one in all others). I also identified programs i had a "good shot" at based on geography, number of DOs, etc. Here's my interview yield based on those classifications I made based on my app:
- Safety programs (9): 6/9
- Good shot programs (14): 7/14
- Top choices (10): 4/10
- All others (45): 10/45
  • - As you can see its kind of a crapshoot but I definitely think being able to accurately understand your competitiveness and identify programs that fit with that is crucial to getting a comfortable enough amount of invites.
  • Overall very happy with rank list: Would be over the moon to match at any of my top 5 and my top 10 are all programs a year ago I thought were pipe dreams for me personally.
What I think worked/helped me:
1.) SLOEs
  • This was by far the biggest and most obvious factor. My letters were mentioned in every single interview I had. Was told by one that by SLOE and Subspecialty SLOEs were both Honors.
  • Idk what was all in my SLOEs but I think being likeable and someone who everyone at the programs thinks is nice/fun and would want to work with is much more important that knowledge base. I dont' think I crushed my auditions in terms of nailing every pimp question, but based on my interviews the letters seem to focus on my personality, being well likely by faculty and staff, and looking eager to be there and that I enjoyed all my shifts.
2.) Perceived commitment to the specialty and ED experience
  • This also came up on most of my interviews. I worked in the ED for 3 years in undergrad (phlebotomist and a scribe).
  • Was heavily involved with EM leadership (EMRA, ACEP etc), Attending a national EM conference, published articles for EM magazines/websites.
  • I was lucky enough that despite COVID I was able to go into the application cycle having 5EM rotations (3 non-residency electives I did 3rd year, my audition, and US rotation).
3.) Networking
  • My school did not have a home EM program/department so I used EMRA to assign me an EM resident mentor as an M1 (who was a grad from my school/DO) and I used him periodically throughout med school for advise etc.
  • Once auditions were cancelled I realized that I was not going to be able to rotate at my top places and as an average DO I knew I had to get noticed somehow. So I was pretty active on social media, zoom stuff, contacted DO residents at programs I was interested in (literally just asking them If based on my app if I would even have a shot). This seemed to pay off pretty big for me.
4.) Other things that came in clutch
  • My hobbies and interest section
    • DO NOT SKIMP ON THIS. This was talked about in every interview. I do have other hobbies (guitar, music on spotify, did improv comedy etc).
    • I literally listed all of my fav Netflix/Hulu shows and it was a talking point a lot. I'd be quoting Arrested Development, The Office, or talking Star Trek with random interviewers.
  • Working in the service industry
    • I was a bartender/server for 4 years (and I maintain that the skills from this job translated better to me working in the ED than any other job I had).
    • I was told by multiple interviews that they either try to find applicants who have worked in the service/food industry. 2 programs told me its an extra point they have on their app scoring system.
    • I knew a few friends who left out their service jobs on their apps. If you're applying EM DO NOT DO THIS. Its valued.
TLDR:
- Building an accurate understanding of your true competitiveness (which I think many people miscalculate) and identify programs who typically interview/rank applicants of similar competitiveness is key in my opinion. SLOEs, networking, and being well rounded very important.

Reposting cause I feel this is a MUST-SEE for future EM applicants. My dude has defied all odds and has had a killer cycle.
 
But if they fall below OP on their list, they’ll know OP didn’t rank them. Don’t see the point of OP doesn’t at least rank them last.
?

Just because you interview at a home program doesn't mean you have to rank it high. I'm a bit confused as to what the issue with that would be.
 
?

Just because you interview at a home program doesn't mean you have to rank it high. I'm a bit confused as to what the issue with that would be.
If OP ends up in SOAP and the program falls below where they ranked him/her, then they’ll know he/she never ranked them and just wasted their time by taking the interview.
 
If OP ends up in SOAP and the program falls below where they ranked him/her, then they’ll know he/she never ranked them and just wasted their time by taking the interview.
It is FM...they interview a lot of people. They don’t care about a interview spot. They will care if you choose not to interview with them aka you don’t like them...but then you turn around and ask for favor...
 
?

Just because you interview at a home program doesn't mean you have to rank it high. I'm a bit confused as to what the issue with that would be.

The problem would be if I rank this program at all there is no way I will soap as they usually soap most of their spots every year. So it seems like a double edge sword on burning bridges.
 
It is FM...they interview a lot of people. They don’t care about a interview spot. They will care if you choose not to interview with them aka you don’t like them...but then you turn around and ask for favor...
I won’t pretend to understand the mentality of one the largest fields in medicine, especially one I’m not applying to. But I really don’t see how interviewing and not ranking is better.
 
How dumb am I to turn down an interview from my home program. Average DO family med applicant in the Midwest. I attended 14 other interviews and honestly rather soap than stay in the same location for 3 more years. I feel like 14 ranks is enough to match?

Idk a home program is a big deal for me so i'd def go to the interview and not burn that bridge. Especially in worst case scenario of having to SOAP, home program will help. Matching at least liked place >>>>>>>>>> unmatched/SOAP
 
Also you guys are gutsy for cancelling interviews. I get the interview burnout but still.
If you've got 12+ its not really gutsy. Its more being aware that you're not super weird/unlikable or an absolute catastrophe of a person to talk to. Those are the only people who need to worry about having more invites that that.
 
Most of my burnout comes from waking up at 4AM for some of my east coast programs for morning conference.
This. So much this. Please let's just all agree to sleep while we can...

I don't know if I agree about the conferences though. Probably my favorite hour of the whole interview season was getting to sit in on virtual rounds at one of my favorite programs. It was invigorating, and absolutely confirmed that I'm going into the right field and that I would have a lot to learn at that institution.

So I got my first "you will be ranked to match" email and am feeling super awkward. Like if they're not your top pick do you just say "thank you, you seem like a great program"? Or is even that leading them on?
 
This. So much this. Please let's just all agree to sleep while we can...

I don't know if I agree about the conferences though. Probably my favorite hour of the whole interview season was getting to sit in on virtual rounds at one of my favorite programs. It was invigorating, and absolutely confirmed that I'm going into the right field and that I would have a lot to learn at that institution.

So I got my first "you will be ranked to match" email and am feeling super awkward. Like if they're not your top pick do you just say "thank you, you seem like a great program"? Or is even that leading them on?
I really liked responding with something like “thank you, I would be happy/thrilled/excited to match with you”. It nods at the fact you are ranking them, it doesn’t reveal your hand, and you aren’t saying anything that isn’t true.
 
This. So much this. Please let's just all agree to sleep while we can...

I don't know if I agree about the conferences though. Probably my favorite hour of the whole interview season was getting to sit in on virtual rounds at one of my favorite programs. It was invigorating, and absolutely confirmed that I'm going into the right field and that I would have a lot to learn at that institution.

So I got my first "you will be ranked to match" email and am feeling super awkward. Like if they're not your top pick do you just say "thank you, you seem like a great program"? Or is even that leading them on?
oh my gosh! **cue panic about not receiving any ranked to match e-mails**
 
oh my gosh! **cue panic about not receiving any ranked to match e-mails**
Oh no, please don't panic. I don't think it is normal (if not illegal it seems like poor form). Several programs have told us explicitly that they do NOT send individual communications to applicants, and to not look for any coded language (like we think you're an exceptional applicant versus great applicant) to try to determine where we are on their rank list. Also, it's early, right? I still have another interview to go before I sit down and really contemplate things.
 
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Most of my burnout comes from waking up at 4AM for some of my east coast programs for morning conference.

A quick rant: I think attending morning/noon conferences as an interviewee is a huge waste of time. I only understand <30% of what's being presented, and it hurts to fake-smile and look engaged as my light box sears my corneas. It's one thing to fluff up the interview itinerary with meaningless bull**** if I'm actually traveling there, but I don't get anything out of sitting for an extra 3-4 hours after wrapping up the Q&A and interviews.
I think conferences can be pretty helpful if you pay attention to how residents interact with other residents and faculty as to get a sense of the work culture. You can also assess how much emphasis is put on education.

For me, the resident QnAs happening in-between IVs is a huge waste of time for everyone. The same questions often get asked over and over in an effort to avoid awkward silence, or because not everyone was present at all times. Having a social hour the day before with small breakout rooms is way more efficient imo. Even worse is having to interact with other applicants in the waiting rooms.

The ideal virtual IV for me would start with a program overview, then a morning report, and finally 1-on-1 interviews, with no meaningless social interactions in between - just use any downtime to stretch, have a bathroom break, and relax before the next IV. And importantly, after finishing your IVs, you are free to leave and finally have something to eat. I got hungry af by the end of every single IV.
 
So I got my first "you will be ranked to match" email and am feeling super awkward. Like if they're not your top pick do you just say "thank you, you seem like a great program"? Or is even that leading them on?

That sounds like a "we're ranking you #1!" email. Like where's the guarantee?

There were reports on SDN of evil programs sending those types of emails to applicants only to end up not ranking them!

Banning post interview communication seems to be the way to go.
 
That sounds like a "we're ranking you #1!" email. Like where's the guarantee?

There were reports on SDN of evil programs sending those types of emails to applicants only to end up not ranking them!

Banning post interview communication seems to be the way to go.
oh yeah I wouldn't trust it, and certainly wouldn't change my rank order list because of it. Still would be nice to hear it. But yeah as said above, many programs I interviewed at said they won't contact us at all, and wouldn't acknowledge any communication from us.
 
Have had a pretty good EM cycle too (not as good as this poster TBH) and the conclusion I’m coming to is that boards and grades mattered much less, and service experience, teaching experience, and personality mattered much more. I was a bartender, server, host, and line cook during college and these definitely come up ALOT. All of my invites have med-Ed fellowships too so I think the fact that I’ve taught in the past helped. Don’t know my exact SLOE grades as they’ve not been brought up once, but on the school evals from those rotations I got perfect scores for professionalism. However I did trade off on letting my personality fully shine through since I’m a bit rough around the edges because of where I grew up, so I made a point not to get too squirrelly on my aways lol.
Same.. I have ton of past life experience but with a red flag..applying a surgical subspecialty w 33% invite/applied programs. I will share later If I match...but I was anticipating myself with low to no invite.
 
Have had a pretty good EM cycle too (not as good as this poster TBH) and the conclusion I’m coming to is that boards and grades mattered much less, and service experience, teaching experience, and personality mattered much more. I was a bartender, server, host, and line cook during college and these definitely come up ALOT. All of my invites have med-Ed fellowships too so I think the fact that I’ve taught in the past helped. Don’t know my exact SLOE grades as they’ve not been brought up once, but on the school evals from those rotations I got perfect scores for professionalism. However I did trade off on letting my personality fully shine through since I’m a bit rough around the edges because of where I grew up, so I made a point not to get too squirrelly on my aways lol.
Yeah boards were definitely secondary. They help if you have a good SLOE. People I know with high boards and a top SLOE that I knew killed it (many invites like me but from more top tiers).

I know DOs just in my class alone who got EM invites at UWashington, BMC, Mayo, Hopkins, Emory, Cook, Kings County, Hennepin, UCSD, UCSF-Fresno, UTSW, Brown.
 
Is it worth digging through all of their websites to have a list of their NRMP program codes ready? Or is there a super easy/clear way to look-up/enter programs into your rank list once it opens up to us? (in 17 days!!!!)
The codes are also easily listed on the ERAS site when you log in and click the programs you've applied to. They're all right there.
 
oh my gosh! **cue panic about not receiving any ranked to match e-mails**
Lol I know my program sent emails and I didn’t get one. I remember being bitter about it. Like if you don’t want me, I don’t want you either type of thing. Ended up still being my top choice (even though my ego was a little hurt) and I matched there. Soo my point is try to ignore the ranked to match or even more personal letters sent by PDs they’re silly and in the end may not matter.
 
And the people commenting about odd interactions with residents at dinners, I only attended one dinner because I didn’t much appreciate the zoom platform/schedule conflicts. When I attended one I was personally annoyed by some of my coresidents who are way more outspoken lol. I guess my point is if it’s a bigger program chances are you haven’t met most of the crew. Also this time if intern year tends to be a little more tiresome as the newness of it all has faded and you’re just a bit more tired lol. Just some things to keep in mind if the vibe is off.
 
Thanks @MerYangBey, both of the above are reassuring and I agree about interactions over zoom.

I am grateful for the interviews, definitely a bit fatigued, but also feeling emboldened to ask more critical questions than on my initial interviews when I was just trying to make a good impression. On a recent interview I knew that I'd been in a later wave of invitations and was invited only after a faculty member vouched for me. So I asked the program director about what their reservations had been about me as an applicant. His response was no major red flags, good letters, but he noticed on my transcript that I'd only received passes in all my clerkships and he quickly moved onto another topic.

Similar to others in this thread, my school went to an entirely pass/fail system for 3rd year. The best grades I could get were passes. This is explained in a bolded sentence in my MSPE. Even though things worked out for me, it makes me wonder how quickly programs are reviewing our applications that they could miss a change like this and potentially hold it against applicants.
 
Thanks @MerYangBey, both of the above are reassuring and I agree about interactions over zoom.

I am grateful for the interviews, definitely a bit fatigued, but also feeling emboldened to ask more critical questions than on my initial interviews when I was just trying to make a good impression. On a recent interview I knew that I'd been in a later wave of invitations and was invited only after a faculty member vouched for me. So I asked the program director about what their reservations had been about me as an applicant. His response was no major red flags, good letters, but he noticed on my transcript that I'd only received passes in all my clerkships and he quickly moved onto another topic.

Similar to others in this thread, my school went to an entirely pass/fail system for 3rd year. The best grades I could get were passes. This is explained in a bolded sentence in my MSPE. Even though things worked out for me, it makes me wonder how quickly programs are reviewing our applications that they could miss a change like this and potentially hold it against applicants.
Jeez that's ****ing terrifying to think about. I'm so sorry you had to go through this hopefully other places didn't hold this against you.
 
Jeez that's ****ing terrifying to think about. I'm so sorry you had to go through this hopefully other places didn't hold this against you.
I'm applying radiology and had a Pass for my COVID radiology zoom-based "rotation" for this same reason...really hope I didn't miss interviews because someone assumed that was a bad grade.
 
Thanks @MerYangBey, both of the above are reassuring and I agree about interactions over zoom.

I am grateful for the interviews, definitely a bit fatigued, but also feeling emboldened to ask more critical questions than on my initial interviews when I was just trying to make a good impression. On a recent interview I knew that I'd been in a later wave of invitations and was invited only after a faculty member vouched for me. So I asked the program director about what their reservations had been about me as an applicant. His response was no major red flags, good letters, but he noticed on my transcript that I'd only received passes in all my clerkships and he quickly moved onto another topic.

Similar to others in this thread, my school went to an entirely pass/fail system for 3rd year. The best grades I could get were passes. This is explained in a bolded sentence in my MSPE. Even though things worked out for me, it makes me wonder how quickly programs are reviewing our applications that they could miss a change like this and potentially hold it against applicants.

Uh... what's the point of MSPEs if PDs aren't going to read them? The wrong assumptions of programs and screwing over applicants just because they can't be bothered to read is one of the most malicious things i heard of programs doing. Like i get it, they're swamped. But still read the MSPEs before making a decision like this.
 
Thanks @MerYangBey, both of the above are reassuring and I agree about interactions over zoom.

I am grateful for the interviews, definitely a bit fatigued, but also feeling emboldened to ask more critical questions than on my initial interviews when I was just trying to make a good impression. On a recent interview I knew that I'd been in a later wave of invitations and was invited only after a faculty member vouched for me. So I asked the program director about what their reservations had been about me as an applicant. His response was no major red flags, good letters, but he noticed on my transcript that I'd only received passes in all my clerkships and he quickly moved onto another topic.

Similar to others in this thread, my school went to an entirely pass/fail system for 3rd year. The best grades I could get were passes. This is explained in a bolded sentence in my MSPE. Even though things worked out for me, it makes me wonder how quickly programs are reviewing our applications that they could miss a change like this and potentially hold it against applicants.
every program I've interviewed at remembers covid and mentions it actaully in their intro video and most schools were shut down at that time so they are paying attention!
 
Uh... what's the point of MSPEs if PDs aren't going to read them? The wrong assumptions of programs and screwing over applicants just because they can't be bothered to read is one of the most malicious things i heard of programs doing. Like i get it, they're swamped. But still read the MSPEs before making a decision like this.
Dude if you had to go through 50 applicants in an hour like these poor PDs, you'd be all about glance value too. Hate the game not the players, I guess. #AppCaps
 
Dude if you had to go through 50 applicants in an hour like these poor PDs, you'd be all about glance value too. Hate the game not the players, I guess. #AppCaps

They should know that covid affected rotations and grading. There's zero excuse for their carelessness. I don't care how many applications they have to read. MSPEs and impact of covid on rotations (especially rotations of the specialty being applied to) should be their first priority.
 
They should know that covid affected rotations and grading. There's zero excuse for their carelessness. I don't care how many applications they have to read. MSPEs and impact of covid on rotations (especially rotations of the specialty being applied to) should be their first priority.
My school let us read our MSPEs and it was an absolute mess. We kept Honors/HP/P for subinternships and in-person electives, but switched Pass/Fail for core clerkships and online electives.

So my grades are like:

January to March: Honors (electives)
April to June: Passes (incl. Radiology)
July to October: Honors (subI and electives)

There is NO WAY that every PD in the country is going to take the time to parse through and figure out whether or not I could have honored Rads. I've had some really really weird patterns this year (like getting interviews from every CA program except my home town where my family still lives). Gotta wonder if this nonsense is to blame.
 
My school let us read our MSPEs and it was an absolute mess. We kept Honors/HP/P for subinternships and in-person electives, but switched Pass/Fail for core clerkships and online electives.

So my grades are like:

January to March: Honors (electives)
April to June: Passes (incl. Radiology)
July to October: Honors (subI and electives)

There is NO WAY that every PD in the country is going to take the time to parse through and figure out whether or not I could have honored Rads. I've had some really really weird patterns this year (like getting interviews from every CA program except my home town where my family still lives). Gotta wonder if this nonsense is to blame.
I don't think it's this nonsense. Honestly there's a degree of randomness to this.
 
My school let us read our MSPEs and it was an absolute mess. We kept Honors/HP/P for subinternships and in-person electives, but switched Pass/Fail for core clerkships and online electives.

So my grades are like:

January to March: Honors (electives)
April to June: Passes (incl. Radiology)
July to October: Honors (subI and electives)

There is NO WAY that every PD in the country is going to take the time to parse through and figure out whether or not I could have honored Rads. I've had some really really weird patterns this year (like getting interviews from every CA program except my home town where my family still lives). Gotta wonder if this nonsense is to blame.

Isn't April to June the period where rotation grading changes effectively happened uniformly? Like the dates matched with what's going on and can be understood since it directly gives the context
 
Isn't April to June the period where rotation grading changes effectively happened uniformly? Like the dates matched with what's going on and can be understood since it directly gives the context
Not all schools went Pass/Fail though I think. Especially for electives. It was a whole big discussion at the time they were deciding how to deal with grading - some people were really worried about applying into competitive fields with a Pass in something like Medicine, Surgery, or elective within their specialty.
 
Not all schools went Pass/Fail though I think. Especially for electives. It was a whole big discussion at the time they were deciding how to deal with grading - some people were really worried about applying into competitive fields with a Pass in something like Medicine, Surgery, or elective within their specialty.
most schools did though. you aren't going to get every single program but you got most. my school went P/F and people are still getting competitive interviews. there were programs i thought i was a shoo in for but i didn't get an invite. it happens.
 
My school let us read our MSPEs and it was an absolute mess. We kept Honors/HP/P for subinternships and in-person electives, but switched Pass/Fail for core clerkships and online electives.
Efffff. Our school is Honors/P/F for cores but just P/F for electives and sub-Is. I really hope PDs take the time to realize I couldn't get higher than a P in my electives (which are all IM subspecialties since I wanna do IM) and sub-Is....
 
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