I think you missed the part where there is actual data to support that there is declining return once you hit a certain amount of interviews. Check out the stats.
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MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread
Started by kraskadva
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deleted1062590
I think about this often, TBH. I passed on a few med schools out-of-state to save money attending the in-state place. HOWEVER, I will argue that this year is different with the lack of visiting rotations. I feel like that would have been the greater equalizer in normal times when it came to regional bias. But still, I think it's something that should be emphasized earlier on to pre-meds by advisors, especially if a student really knows where they want to end up in 5-10 years (which is reasonable considering that they ask you those sorts of questions at med school interviews).
Would be foolish to rely on data from past years when the system is completely changed this year.
I'm curious if those stats from previous years can be used as a reference point this year? You've got no travel or real time constrictions which you would've had in all previous years so other than burnout IDK what would cause diminishing returns
Ngl, I read this first bolded part before my coffee and was like”screw you too man!” Lol
Forgot to mention I’m a DO without a home program so I’m sure that ain’t helping.
Good luck dude/dudette!
Also, why is anyone arguing with the interview hoarders? They’re not going to change they’re behavior and it’s silly to act like they have that many just due to dumb luck. Heck one of them is directly hurting me when you think about it. But I can’t change his/her mind or the broken system we’re all trapped in.
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deleted645092
What I’d like to add to this mess of a thread is that anyone who thinks hoarding interviews is okay is ****, and you’re actually completely wrong.
The way the match algorithm works, you’re actually more likely to match this year (assuming a relatively safe number of interviews), assuming programs overreach and interview a lot of the wrong applicants. You’ve all said it yourselves that programs will go further down their lists to match because more of these top applicants are less likely to rank them. Which means people lower down the list will be more likely to match.
The way the match algorithm works, you’re actually more likely to match this year (assuming a relatively safe number of interviews), assuming programs overreach and interview a lot of the wrong applicants. You’ve all said it yourselves that programs will go further down their lists to match because more of these top applicants are less likely to rank them. Which means people lower down the list will be more likely to match.
At what number would you consider someone to be interview hoarding? For GS for example the magic number in past years was 13+ consecutive ranks so if you're at 16 are you hoarding? 20? The ambiguity this year makes people much more apprehensive to flat out decline an interview
Hahaha, my bad. I can definitely see how it could initially come off as an insult.
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deleted645092
It’s all relative bro/ sis. If you’re 260s , AOA, good research, etc I’d say damn right you’re probably hoarding if you’re sitting at 16. But if you’re DO with 450s, no USMLE, etc I’d say you probably aren’t. But at the same time one of them is actually going to be sitting at 16 and the other isn’t.
Luckily I’m applying EM where they’ve given us a hard cutoff for pretty much everything this year. MD with a home program but you still did 1 or more aways? RIP cause you’re hoarding by the guidelines. More than 2 if you don’t have a home program? Also RIP. They’ve also given us a hard cutoff for interviews which is 17, but made the mistake of making it essentially unenforceable. But I’m a big believer in karma so I’m not going to push my luck and be selfish just to lookout for myself this year.
This.
I was in a domestic violence situation for awhile before and during early med school, and it took me until M4 year even after a year off to recover most of my functioning. My Step scores are garbage but I passed on the first try somehow. However, the compassion I gained for people going through difficult times skyrocketed, and I was wonderful clinically. Unfortunately, most programs have a you-know-what for high Step scores and won’t bother looking past that to see what else I have to offer.
If I were a terrible person, I’d say that I would love to compete against everyone leveled to the playing field of distress and dysfunction that I went through. Suddenly I’d be perfectly competitive. To the arrogant people on this thread, **** your assumptions.
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On the flip side, are you going to have that altruistic outlook if come March you don't match? Sorry, but to an extent interview hoarding is a prudent move in this unpredictable cycle. Not saying do 25+, but if you do the "fair" thing and you don't match then you're SOL and you'll be looking back going wow I sure wish I hadn't cancelled those other interviews
Lol at this “logic”. Not even the AAMC would agree with you. The point is that if an elite group of applicants take all of the interviews, there won’t even be people “lower on the list” to rank/match. Think about it. Sure, programs may have to go farther down their rank lists to fill, but your stance is based on the faulty assumption that interview number is limitless. Many programs have already stated they aren’t interviewing any more applicants than previous years. I predict that the real losers in this process will be mid-tier places that don’t attract the top applicants, as well as the lower stat folks who didn’t get a chance to interview because top applicants took all of the spots.
Will be sad/ironic to see the virtue-signaling Twitter crowd go unmatched after they “cap” their own interviews at 15 to avoid “hoarding”.
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deleted645092
Doing right by others has gotten me this far so I’m not gonna throw it all away just to look out for myself 100%. My hope is that because I don’t act like a complete **** during my interviews, I’ll land on the ranklist somewhere. And the programs that decide to rank the tippy top applicants who aren’t gonna out the program anywhere on the list will drop to me, whereas in a regular year they might not.
essentially my hope is that getting on a rank list at all will give us lower tier applicants a better chance to rank at a program than in a typical year. Partly because of what I said above about top applicants just interviewing for their egos or for safety, and likely not end up ranking a lot of the programs, and partly because the people who have the attitude of “myself above all” tend to show through during interactions and end up shooting themselves in the foot with their personalities anyway.
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deleted645092
Chances are if you’re good enough to be getting 15 interviews this year, you don’t actually need those 15 interviews.
More power to you, but IF you go unmatched with this strategy you'll look back and kick yourself. There's a fine line between being selfish and being a realist this year. Also, as someone with a decent amount of interviews I can say I'm interviewing at all of them (currently) and also ranking all of them. It isn't for my ego, its so I don't increase my odds of having to go through the nightmare of a prelim year
Exactly. If you need 25 interviews to match you have a personality issue. Normal years put the “magic number” at like 10 or 11 in the majority of specialities. Maybe add 2 more cuz of COVID but nowhere near 25.
And if you haven’t done several interviews yet they’re exhausting I couldn’t picture myself getting through 25 haha
Outside of completely hating a program why would you not rank it? In essence that’s saying you would rather go unmatched and it’s hard to imagine feeling that way
I mean good for you? The weird aggression you have towards others who disagree with your approach needs to go
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deleted645092
The only aggression I have is toward selfishness. During the first two years we call that kind of attitude gunning.
I just want to add, the issue with "interview hoarding" really only applies to those who are getting a ton of invites and are doing interviews to programs that would go straight to the bottom of their list. Like @scrublyfe21 is saying, getting interviews at programs he added last minute in fear of not getting many invites, he's realizing that if he were to rank them, they'd probably go at the bottom of his rank list, so now he's withdrawing from those interviews. There's nothing wrong with this approach AND this does not equate to some ridiculous claim of virtue-signaling. Lol. We're all applicants this year, we're all stressed out. We all have different goals, expectations,, strategies. If your opinion is to apply to 150 programs and go on 30 interviews, knowing that 10 of those interviews don't interest you at all and will go straight to the bottom of your list... more power to you. But no need to say to someone on here, "well if you don't match... that strategy sucks". Like come on lol
I scheduled a bunch of online electives and year long teaching electives from mid october to mid january so I'm chilling at home for the majority of interview season lol.
I thought this would be the case as well but for me in IM it has not rung true. 2/3 kind of "powerhouse" IM programs in my region that I was pretty confident in ghosted me, but I somehow got IIs at programs way in the northeast and on the west coast. It's extremely strange this year. I thought maybe it was because we had sent medical students to the programs in the past (we're a low tier school so big name program love is few and far between) but we hadn't that I could see from our match data in the past. IIs are just random as hell in my eyes.
Should be advising them to try their ass off in undergrad and go for that T25 med school diploma. Puts you on easy mode for the match. I wish someone would've told me to try harder so I could have chances at the big names instead of chilling with my state school program.
I don't support an application cap at all. I think it will kill smaller programs like mine from ever putting students at top places, which would be pretty brutal after all the work getting through med school to not even have the luxury of applying to places you're excited about. I think an interview cap would serve the same purpose and be way less intrusive on med students application freedom.
So glad we have you here to act as a moral compass!
Noo it's all good, don't leave! This panic thread is a great tradition and it's been going well so far, we have to keep it up!
Yeah but what if you hit your magic interview number and then the dream program sends you an II?
I don't understand your point here. Why would a cap kill smaller programs? I think if anything the cap would force students from smaller programs (really, all programs) to apply more strategically. and it would result in programs not relying on filters to screen all the applications they recieve on day one.
You could cancel one and slot it in. You'd still be at the cap.
Lol at turning the match into a moral issue. The only ones who need a moral compass adjustment are the people who created this process.
Because smaller programs can't be that strategic and selective when applying to top programs. We don't have the luxury. My PD at my home program straight up said if I want to apply to the top programs I have to apply to them all with the expectation that I may or may not get any invites even with high steps and AOA + other stuff.
It isn't gospel but it still roughly works. Each applicant can only match to one program just like any other year.
Okay, the back and forth about who is what kind of person will stop now, or the people doing it are going to be banned from the thread for a while. Up until the last day or so, this thread was about supporting each other, and now suddenly it's about who can virtue signal the hardest or be the most realistic. If you want to go on every single interview because you feel you earned them and don't want to risk not matching, fine. Not everyone agrees with that strategy, and that's fine. Additionally, there are other factors that go into how many interviews someone gets or how competitive they are. Don't assume that just because they have lower stats that they didn't work as hard or don't have other circumstances.
On the other side, not everyone who wants to go on all their interviews has a personality disorder or is selfish and arrogant, and it's a bit hypocritical to say you're selfless and altruistic while saying anyone who disagrees with you has a personality disorder.
So the toxic arguing back and forth ends now.
On the other side, not everyone who wants to go on all their interviews has a personality disorder or is selfish and arrogant, and it's a bit hypocritical to say you're selfless and altruistic while saying anyone who disagrees with you has a personality disorder.
So the toxic arguing back and forth ends now.
No one called you less. The poster you're referring to has a language barrier, which is fairly obvious from their posts, and they clarified themselves saying they meant lower competitiveness, not lesser of a person.
No one is promoting any toxic behavior. The moderator staff are all volunteers. We are all pre-meds, physicians, and medical students with work, school, and family. I am not being paid to be here. I have to fit this in between passing medical school, doing research, and raising my kids. You can help us by reporting posts you think violate TOS so that we get an alert, and the whole staff will see it.
It's the internet you've gotta just ignore stuff. Don't let random anonymous posts get under your skin.
The bloodbath we were promised has finally come for us when we least expected it
I'd love even hearing rejections from a few of my top places that haven't gotten back to me yet. The silent rejections are absolutely killer on the psyche.
I have an interview with a program tomorrow that's been scheduled since two weeks ago and I still haven't heard anything from the program. No itinerary, zoom links, or anything. I'm assuming there is no pre-interview meet and greet thing, but hopefully they don't send an email at like 5 saying come to our meet and greet at 6. That would be extremely annoying.
Programs that hide their resident class and have zero useful info on their website whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Huge red flag for me. My first audition was at a place like this and the program was a disaster.
Agreed. It's weird to say, but programs with killer websites make everything so much better. The trash websites just frustrate me to no end
Agree. Also if the program is so bad that you have to hide the residents, why don’t they do something about changing the program? Seems like everyone would win
I was offered an EM interview but for a specific date, which of course is on a date that I really can't do it on because I'm currently on an audition with a program I'm interested in, have a shift scheduled that day, and I've already switched a few shifts for other interviews. Should I switch again and risk annoying the program I'm on or call the program and see if another date is available?
EM leadership has definitely posed not going over their interview limits as the the right and equitable thing to do.
I just wanna say I’m so excited to (hopefully) be going into a field with colleagues like you
I would see if you could schedule a different date, personally.
I meant if you’d already done all of them. What do you just hold onto a couple spots and keep trying to push them out until the last second hoping you get to cancel them?
After having had a couple interviews under my belt, its crazy how there are some real BAD programs out there that you can pick up on interviews.
