MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

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That hasn't been brought up yet for me. Although I have been secretly wondering if this might be why I'm not getting as many interviews as I had thought I'd get before this cycle started. My third year inpatient IM rotation was during the month of April and I had to do that online. I did have two months of IM specialties electives but on paper, I'm still missing inpatient IM

But don’t most people have something similar? Were most schools pretty much **** down for rotations in Mar-May?

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

Caved and sent 5 application update/LOIs to prelim/TY programs I have refional ties to and sent 5 additional TY/prelim apps out to programs near my fave DR programs I’ve interviewed at with a short email to the contact listed on ERAS to each program just saying hi/why I’m interested cause I’m applying so late.

Decided to do this cause I looked through my TY/prelim list I think I applied a little too optimistic/aggressive with the programs I picked, lol. Not super worried yet, but I figured if I was going to do this at some point, I might as well do it a little earlier.

 

[Prehealth1011]

I was asked about it in my IM interviews as well but it didn't seem like they were grilling or interrogating. They seemed genuinely curious.

But who knows really. Trust no one.

 

[Espressso]

But don’t most people have something similar? We’re most schools pretty much **** down for rotations in Mar-May?

Yeah I think every applicant has missed one or two rotations at the tail end of third year. But how many have missed a rotation in the speciality they're applying to. Like doing Peds online when you're applying peds.

PDs and admissions should be lenient with this though definitely

 

[soundnin]

prior to october 21, the suggestion to PD's by PD organizations and others were to be lenient with 1) electives 2) LORs and 3) Step 2 CK because a lot of that was out of the control of applicants. anecdotally, a few weeks in, it seems like applicants are being penalized for all of the above.

 

[softball2344]

Has anyone else had the unfortunate experience of being grilled over your "online rotations" that were completed towards the end of third year?

We were pulled from the hospitals around mid-march and my IM rotation was scheduled for April/May. I was interviewing for an IM prelim and the PD was grilling me over how you can't replace in-person rotations with online courses etc. Obviously I would have preferred to do an in-person rotation as well.. but are some of these PDs just completely oblivious to the situation that we're going through?!

I had absolutely no control over my school/hospital pulling students from rotations, yet here I am facing the consequences for it.

This cycle can **** right off.

EDIT: my make-up rotation won't be until the following spring

Were you able to do a sub-i or anything inpatient during the summer? I missed most of my IM rotation and nobody has brought it up so far, and I am applying IM haha. I did, however, do a sub-I and lots of IM electives before apps were due

 

[underthesun]

No. Most programs have a preliminary rank list before interviews even happen, and small adjustments are made after interviews.

I didn't really think about this before, but it sorta makes sense that they would do this. I can't imagine the interviews being so helpful that you could construct an entire rank list from them.

 

[risperdoll]

No. Most programs have a preliminary rank list before interviews even happen, and small adjustments are made after interviews.

Not saying your info isn’t legit, but where exactly are you getting this from? I know only 18% of PDs filled out the NRMP survey for 2020, but it seems pretty consistent that the interview factors heavily into ranking.

That being said, how many people do you guys think actually blow interviewers out of the water with their incredible insight when answering these questions? If you’re genuine, that will come through. The best you can do is peruse program websites before the interview, then take a deep breath and let your sparkling personalities shine through!

 

[Doctor_Strange]

Were you able to do a sub-i or anything inpatient during the summer? I missed most of my IM rotation and nobody has brought it up so far, and I am applying IM haha. I did, however, do a sub-I and lots of IM electives before apps were due

I applied IM and outside of two electives, only got to do one week of MICU before I was pulled off rotations as well.

Hoping this is not a red flag. It partially explains my lackluster LORs. That's does bring a question I haven't thought of, can programs see our fourth year rotations? I will have done Pulmonary and Cardiology before I get into the thick of my IM interviews...

 

[frenchyn]

Anyone send thank you email...n get the response “it will be a pleasure to train you” something along the line? Is the consensus: not to pay too much attention to these since some programs lie and previously told people they would rank them first or highly but ended up not matching there or not matching at all? This process is full of ****. Why is it unethical to lie to patients but it is okay for programs to lie to candidates lol...what a disgrace to the profession ahhaha

 

[Chibucks15]

Why in the world are you sending thank you emails

I've been sending them too. Its just kinda how I was raised to always send them. They obviously won't change anything but I feel weird not sending them

 

[Lawpy]

Anyone send thank you email...n get the response “it will be a pleasure to train you” something along the line? Is the consensus: not to pay too much attention to these since some programs lie and previously told people they would rank them first or highly but ended up not matching there or not matching at all? This process is full of ****. Why is it unethical to lie to patients but it is okay for programs to lie to candidates lol...what a disgrace to the profession ahhaha

because from what SDN taught me about game theory, the algorithm is applicant proposing and thus gives programs the incentive to lie. Idk if thank you notes have any impact but doesnt hurt to send a simple one if they allow

 

[Lawpy]

Thoughts on banning all post interview communication altogether? No more fake "we'll rank you #1 so dont bother interviewing" emails, and PDs wont be flooded with thousands of thank you notes

 

[Espressso]

I was under the impression that it was clear to NOT send thank you letters to programs unless you have a very specific reason to be sending it. At least according to every PD that I've ever heard comment on this topic.

I've heard the complete opposite which probably tells us these sort of things barely ever even move the needle, and is most likely highly PD/program/speciality/faculty dependent.

 

[sunshinefl]

Anyone send thank you email...n get the response “it will be a pleasure to train you” something along the line? Is the consensus: not to pay too much attention to these since some programs lie and previously told people they would rank them first or highly but ended up not matching there or not matching at all? This process is full of ****. Why is it unethical to lie to patients but it is okay for programs to lie to candidates lol...what a disgrace to the profession ahhaha

That just sounds like a nice, generic reply. Lying would be “you are literally ranked number 1 so you will definitely match here if you want to”...and then not even ranking you at all.

I was under the impression that it was clear to NOT send thank you letters to programs unless you have a very specific reason to be sending it. At least according to every PD that I've ever heard comment on this topic.

I’ve been on 3 interviews so far.

1, my core site program: you know how to find us if you think of anything else you want to ask.
2, my bottom barrel program PD: we expect everyone to send a thank you email to each of your 8 interviewers.
3, my top choice out of my invites and a really good match for me: we don’t keep track of post interview communication at all. You are free to contact us if you have any questions, but don’t feel compelled to.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I think it's a good move to send one unless told not to. It probably won't do anything to help you, but it could and unless you're just way too sappy and over the top it won't hurt you.

 

[frenchyn]

I was under the impression that it was clear to NOT send thank you letters to programs unless you have a very specific reason to be sending it. At least according to every PD that I've ever heard comment on this topic.

Nope you can send one out of of polite unless they tell you specifically not to...Will it help? Probably not...it will strange to not send one since they take their time to talk to me...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not saying your info isn’t legit, but where exactly are you getting this from? I know only 18% of PDs filled out the NRMP survey for 2020, but it seems pretty consistent that the interview factors heavily into ranking.

Anecdotally from faculty and residents involved in the process.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I have forgotten to send thank you emails to my last two programs. Honestly I’m not worried it will matter at all.

 

[veebo]

I'm not sending any. If a program will only rank me because I sent them a thank you note and not because of my application, interview, or anything else actually meaningful than it's not a program I have any desire to be at.

 

[katiebug45]

Caved and sent 5 application update/LOIs to prelim/TY programs I have refional ties to and sent 4 additional TY/prelim apps out to programs near my fave DR programs I’ve interviewed at with a short email to the contact listed on ERAS to each program just saying hi/why I’m interested cause I’m applying so late.

Decided to do this cause I looked through my TY/prelim list I think I applied a little too optimistic/aggressive with the programs I picked, lol. Not super worried yet, but I figured if I was going to do this at some point, I might as well do it a little earlier.

question! how did you word the email you sent to the late programs? i added a few today and was thinking about sending some quick emails, but don’t want to sound stupid

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

I'm not sending any. If a program will only rank me because I sent them a thank you note and not because of my application, interview, or anything else actually meaningful than it's not a program I have any desire to be at.

I mean, it might not be as polarizing as rank/no rank, but it could mean being bumped a few spots up, or being more memorable in the PDs mind when they come to discuss applicants.

 

[frenchyn]

I'm not sending any. If a program will only rank me because I sent them a thank you note and not because of my application, interview, or anything else actually meaningful than it's not a program I have any desire to be at.

I used a thank you letter to express my interest, reminded them who I am (maybe something we talked about during the interview), and let them I will keep in touch...Will it help? Who knows...

But if you think about it, I had 6 interviews this past week...I can barely remember who my interviewers are...DO YOU? so I don't expect my interviewers to remember me....especially 2-3 months down the road...This year is rough. I was told repeatedly by residents if you are interested in the program, make sure you let them know.

I hate thank you email btw...but since it only takes like 5-10 mins...I will bite the bullets. It is just another imperfect aspect of this process.

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

I was torn on Thank you notes, but I've come to the decision that I won't be sending any. I think they are pointless and every year I read about tons of people who match without sending any. I think that this process is so stressful as it is and we shouldn't be adding extra hoops to jump through. With meet and greets, residency fairs, pre-interview socials, post-interview thank you's, pre-interview LOI, post-interview LOIs, and second looks. When does it stop? Seriously?

Every year we find new crap we think we have to do. As someone mentioned already, if a program is going to drop me on the rank list because I didn't send a meaningless thank you note than that program isn't for me.

 

[Banco]

I don't think it moves the needle but if you want to be safe one TY note to the PD would suffice. I am not sending any to individual faculty, that's overkill, unless there is a specific faculty member I want to talk to for whatever reason.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I was torn on Thank you notes, but I've come to the decision that I won't be sending any. I think they are pointless and every year I read about tons of people who match without sending any. I think that this process is so stressful as it is and we shouldn't be adding extra hoops to jump through. With meet and greets, residency fairs, pre-interview socials, post-interview thank you's, pre-interview LOI, post-interview LOIs, and second looks. When does it stop? Seriously?

Every year we find new crap we think we have to do. As someone mentioned already, if a program is going to drop me on the rank list because I didn't send a meaningless thank you note than that program isn't for me.

I mean some of us were just raised that way. I didn’t send thank you notes to my interviewers when I applied to med school because I thought it would help me, I did it because they went out of their way to interview candidates and it’s polite to show appreciation for that effort.

I feel like it’s the same here. It might not be needed to match, but that doesn’t mean it’s pointless unless you think being appreciative is pointless. Obviously that doesn’t apply to programs that tell you not to lol.

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

I mean some of us were just raised that way. I didn’t send thank you notes to my interviewers when I applied to med school because I thought it would help me, I did it because they went out of their way to interview candidates and it’s polite to show appreciation for that effort.

I feel like it’s the same here. It might not be needed to match, but that doesn’t mean it’s pointless unless you think being appreciative is pointless. Obviously that doesn’t apply to programs that tell you not to lol.

So I must have been raised as some sort of savage? 🤣

Obviously I don't think being appreciative is pointless. I thank everyone of my interviewers at the conclusion of my interview face to face. I just think this is another construction of neurotic applicants that gets talked about so other neurotic applicants feel compelled to do it. Adding another needless hoop to jump through. We have enough of those.

 

[veebo]

I mean, it might not be as polarizing as rank/no rank, but it could mean being bumped a few spots up, or being more memorable in the PDs mind when they come to discuss applicants.

I'm okay with not matching at a place because I didn't send thank you notes. I have no problem with other people sending them. It's just another way to self-select for the right program for me. If a program values a thank you note over the application, interview, and whatever their rank scaling may be that's fine, I'll be okay elsewhere.

 

[veebo]

So I must have been raised as some sort of savage? 🤣

Obviously I don't think being appreciative is pointless. I thank everyone of my interviewers at the conclusion of my interview face to face. I just think this is another construction of neurotic applicants that gets talked about so other neurotic applicants feel compelled to do it. Adding another needless hoop to jump through. We have enough of those.

Yeah I'm very content with the face-to-face thank you at the end of the interviews.

 

[LutGholein]

I was under the impression that it was clear to NOT send thank you letters to programs unless you have a very specific reason to be sending it. At least according to every PD that I've ever heard comment on this topic.

I’ve heard so many variable things from PD’s about post-interview communication but I agree with you all that it probably shouldn’t tilt the needle one way or another.

 

[bigindian4891]

I thank them a lot for their time and willingness to interview me at the end of the interview. That is my thank you note. I'm only sending an extra thank you note to my #1 and #2 because I wanted to follow up with them on stuff we talked about during the interview. Otherwise, this is a tradition that needs to go away.

 

[deleted697308]

No. Most programs have a preliminary rank list before interviews even happen, and small adjustments are made after interviews.

Agreed. An example - I remember as an interviewee with meh GPA, my med school said once you get the interview it doesn't matter.
Def not true. Now that I do a lot of adcom stuff the interview is a small part of your overall thing. An off-putting interview brings you down the ranks but a meh one just keeps you the same rank you would've already been.

 

[deleted697308]

Arent the interviewees on equal standing once they get an interview and you have to really shine to make sure you match? Ive been kicking myself too just bc i have a cluster of interviews but dont feel like im killing any of them just doing average

What specialty? In surgery everything is only 10 minutes or 15 minutes lol so it's hard to "nail" something that short unless your person likes you because of something they identify with in your app lol. I.e. had one interview where the interviewer loved me because I had the exact same unique hobby and they just wanted to keep talking about it

 

[deleted697308]

+1 it’s a rough time trying to get an interview at my #1. My SO is a resident in another specialty and I’m trying to get an interview at their hospital so we can be together for residency since all my other interviews are 4+ hours away. Atleast 2 people have vouched for me and haven’t heard anything.

Maybe it'll take some time! I sent 5 letters of interest, and I got 4/5 interviews!!! And 3 of the LOI program interviews came THIS week.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So I must have been raised as some sort of savage? 🤣

Obviously I don't think being appreciative is pointless. I thank everyone of my interviewers at the conclusion of my interview face to face. I just think this is another construction of neurotic applicants that gets talked about so other neurotic applicants feel compelled to do it. Adding another needless hoop to jump through. We have enough of those.

Lmao. No I didn’t mean it that way haha.

 

[nervousbreakdown247]

Hey everyone,

Been on SDN for a long time now but this is my first post. I'm hoping someone can offer me some sort of advice or anything. I'm getting incredibly nervous and scared about this cycle.

I'm applying to FM and Peds - I only have 5 interviews so far (4 FM and 1 Peds) and have not really heard back from many other schools. Taken part in 3 of the 5 interviews so far and loved all the programs. I've only got about 10 rejections and applied to about 250 programs. I am a non-US IMG and will be graduating this year. Step 1 score is on the lower end (200-210 range) but went up 21 points on my CK (220-230 range), first pass for both. I have research experience, great work experience and a lot of volunteer experience. I honoured or got an A in all my clerkships. LORs are from IM PD, FM APD, Peds APD and FM doctor I shadowed for years. I'd say I'm an extremely friendly and normal individual so I feel like my interviews and future interviews (hopefully) should be great.

My last invite was 2 weeks ago and have barely heard anything since then (only got like 2-3 rejections during this 2 week period). I'm getting nervous with this cycle as I thought I applied broadly enough to have received more invites than this. My goal was to get 10-15 invites which I thought was very reasonable..

I sent out a few letters of interests to my top programs, which are IMG friendly and very within my reach I would say based off their stats, but have not heard back from anyone yet. I keep telling myself that no answer is better than a rejection, but god spending my time on SDN and Reddit is slowly crushing all my hopes with everything.

Hoping someone could help me out with some advice here or even tell me if that number of interviews is appropriate at this stage? I know some of you USMD/DOs have >10 invites so I'm just very anxious about all of this lately.

Thank you all and good luck!

 

[frenchyn]

Hey everyone,

Been on SDN for a long time now but this is my first post. I'm hoping someone can offer me some sort of advice or anything. I'm getting incredibly nervous and scared about this cycle.

I'm applying to FM and Peds - I only have 5 interviews so far (4 FM and 1 Peds) and have not really heard back from many other schools. Taken part in 3 of the 5 interviews so far and loved all the programs. I've only got about 10 rejections and applied to about 250 programs. I am a non-US IMG and will be graduating this year. Step 1 score is on the lower end (200-210 range) but went up 21 points on my CK (220-230 range), first pass for both. I have research experience, great work experience and a lot of volunteer experience. I honoured or got an A in all my clerkships. LORs are from IM PD, FM APD, Peds APD and FM doctor I shadowed for years. I'd say I'm an extremely friendly and normal individual so I feel like my interviews and future interviews (hopefully) should be great.

My last invite was 2 weeks ago and have barely heard anything since then (only got like 2-3 rejections during this 2 week period). I'm getting nervous with this cycle as I thought I applied broadly enough to have received more invites than this. My goal was to get 10-15 invites which I thought was very reasonable..

I sent out a few letters of interests to my top programs, which are IMG friendly and very within my reach I would say based off their stats, but have not heard back from anyone yet. I keep telling myself that no answer is better than a rejection, but god spending my time on SDN and Reddit is slowly crushing all my hopes with everything.

Hoping someone could help me out with some advice here or even tell me if that number of interviews is appropriate at this stage? I know some of you USMD/DOs have >10 invites so I'm just very anxious about all of this lately.

Thank you all and good luck!

Have you checked out the spreadsheet for FM and PED? I used my specialty spreadsheet and I stalked some other specialties as well...because people posted their stats etc anonymously...you can check it out to gauge where you are at.

 

[calivianya]

So I must have been raised as some sort of savage? 🤣

Obviously I don't think being appreciative is pointless. I thank everyone of my interviewers at the conclusion of my interview face to face. I just think this is another construction of neurotic applicants that gets talked about so other neurotic applicants feel compelled to do it. Adding another needless hoop to jump through. We have enough of those.

I get what he meant because I was raised that way, too.

Probably unhelpful comment: it’s one of those things where I know it’s regional but subconsciously I can’t help but have feelings about it. I did some hiring in a previous career (assistant manager) and I definitely had feelings about the people that didn’t bother to send thank you notes... but it really only affected the people in the middle of the pack for me. If they were awful and bombed the interview, it wasn’t going to matter if they sent the best note in the world, and the same goes for if they were amazing and I definitely wanted them even if I didn’t get a note. It just mattered if I wasn’t sure about them and was trying to find reasons for a “yes” or “no.” I always tried to temper my feelings with knowing it’s a regional thing, but there’s that little sliver of, “are they not sending a thank you note because they’re not from here and this is normal in their hometown, or is this going to be the person I dread having to work with everyday because they’re rude af?”

I’m really going to struggle if programs tell me not to send them because I’m going to feel six kinds of weird about it. I’ve never in my life not sent a thank you note for any type of interview... even if I hated it and wouldn’t go/work there if my life depended on it.

 

[frenchyn]

Those who send thank you letter...who do you send it to? all the interviewers?

 

[boolin_1]

I know of at least one EM residency program that uses a point system for their rank list, and ‘post interview thank you note’ gets you a point. So I send them

 

[Banco]

Those who send thank you letter...who do you send it to? all the interviewers?

PD directly.

 

[sunshinefl]

I mean some of us were just raised that way. I didn’t send thank you notes to my interviewers when I applied to med school because I thought it would help me, I did it because they went out of their way to interview candidates and it’s polite to show appreciation for that effort.

I feel like it’s the same here. It might not be needed to match, but that doesn’t mean it’s pointless unless you think being appreciative is pointless. Obviously that doesn’t apply to programs that tell you not to lol.

I consider myself to be a courteous person. But I have never sent a post-interview thank you for jobs, schools, anything. I do enthusiastically thank them at the end of the interview, but I never considered it rude to not also follow up with a note. Seems over the top unless I had something else to say, and just added thank you again for the interview.

Maybe it'll take some time! I sent 5 letters of interest, and I got 4/5 interviews!!! And 3 of the LOI program interviews came THIS week.

I’m 0/5 for my personalized emails with real ties to the program location and mission.

 

[deleted697308]

I consider myself to be a courteous person. But I have never sent a post-interview thank you for jobs, schools, anything. I do enthusiastically thank them at the end of the interview, but I never considered it rude to not also follow up with a note. Seems over the top unless I had something else to say, and just added thank you again for the interview.

I’m 0/5 for my personalized emails with real ties to the program location and mission.

I have direct ties to all my programs I emailed b/c of husband's residency location which may actually be why. Feel like they like to keep married people together. They probably haven't gotten to reading your app I didn't get a reply to any of them for what it's worth and it's been ~4 weeks since I sent those emails. Just ended up with IIs recently

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

I have direct ties to all my programs I emailed b/c of husband's residency location which may actually be why. Feel like they like to keep married people together. They probably haven't gotten to reading your app I didn't get a reply to any of them for what it's worth and it's been ~4 weeks since I sent those emails.

How long were your LOIs btw. I just wrote one but it might have been too long lol. I wanted to really personalize it.

 

[deleted697308]

How long were your LOIs btw. I just wrote one but it might have been too long lol. I wanted to really personalize it.

short - a total of 9 sentences.

 

[curbsideconsult]

If it makes anyone here feel better, most programs discuss your rank immediately after your interview so thank you cards/emails don't really matter. At my program, I have been told that we'll get to review the final rank list and residents can approve or nix people, but I can most certainly guarantee you none of us will tank a candidate because we didn't get a post-interview thank you. Or conversely move a candidate up the list because we got a thank you card.

Send a thank you card/email if that's just a thing you do, but do not feel compelled or pressured in any way to do so.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I consider myself to be a courteous person. But I have never sent a post-interview thank you for jobs, schools, anything. I do enthusiastically thank them at the end of the interview, but I never considered it rude to not also follow up with a note. Seems over the top unless I had something else to say, and just added thank you again for the interview.

Like I said, people are raised differently. I didn’t say it makes you a rude person to not send thank you notes (and didn’t mean to imply anyone is a savage if they don’t lol). My point was just that sending them isn’t necessarily something extra or a hoop people are jumping through to affect their rank—some of us just do that kind of thing.

 

[Espressso]

This is complete insanity to me. I guess that although in Derm it’s very clear to not send thank you notes, it’s both specialty and program dependent. Wondering now if I should have sent them to my prelims

Yeah I think it would be really beneficial for everyone if programs made it explicitly clear, be that on the website or during some email communication that they either don't want thank you emails or they allow for them. More clarity within this entire process would be better I think

 

[mehc012]

I get what he meant because I was raised that way, too.

Probably unhelpful comment: it’s one of those things where I know it’s regional but subconsciously I can’t help but have feelings about it. I did some hiring in a previous career (assistant manager) and I definitely had feelings about the people that didn’t bother to send thank you notes... but it really only affected the people in the middle of the pack for me. If they were awful and bombed the interview, it wasn’t going to matter if they sent the best note in the world, and the same goes for if they were amazing and I definitely wanted them even if I didn’t get a note. It just mattered if I wasn’t sure about them and was trying to find reasons for a “yes” or “no.” I always tried to temper my feelings with knowing it’s a regional thing, but there’s that little sliver of, “are they not sending a thank you note because they’re not from here and this is normal in their hometown, or is this going to be the person I dread having to work with everyday because they’re rude af?”

I’m really going to struggle if programs tell me not to send them because I’m going to feel six kinds of weird about it. I’ve never in my life not sent a thank you note for any type of interview... even if I hated it and wouldn’t go/work there if my life depended on it.

The bolded sentence demonstrates EXACTLY why these are meaningless. Personally, I find it almost rude/inconsiderate to send an insincere note or say something nice that you don't mean...it's why I never want to live in the South again. Gives me a complex, knowing that people fake friendliness.

 

[Espressso]

The bolded sentence demonstrates EXACTLY why these are meaningless. Personally, I find it almost rude/inconsiderate to send an insincere note or say something nice that you don't mean...it's why I never want to live in the South again. Gives me a complex, knowing that people fake friendliness.

Saying thanks to someone who interviewed you is not fake friendliness lol. It's literally just thanking them for taking the time to interview you. It's harmless Imo