MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

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efle said:
People who are trying to match and live in SF, NYC, Boston, LA, etc on 60-65k per year - what's your reasoning that makes it worth the CoL? Nearly all my friends are trying to go to these kinds of cities, and many didn't even bother applying to programs anywhere but the coasts.

Having spent my adult life in "undesirable" places like St Louis and Baltimore, can someone clue me in on why? These are real cities with metros of 2-3 million people, plenty of restaurants and bars and movie theaters and concert venues and sports arenas, mild winters, safe suburbs all the docs live in, and for the same price as renting a 600 sqft studio in california you can pay the mortgage on a 2000 sqft house.

So help me out folks. What are y'all planning to do in a place like Boston or coastal california cities that you couldn't find elsewhere? What is it about these places that trumps your housing situation, and having plenty of spending money?
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Having lived in NYC and also a few comparable cities to both St. Louis and Baltimore--I personally agree with you. For me, while I enjoy big city living, CoL is the most important thing. And I feel like I can get enough of a city experience in a more affordable location, albeit on a smaller scale.

But I don't need to spend paragraphs explaining why NYC isn't the same as St. Louis or Baltimore. Maybe some people like having to choose on a given free weekend whether to go to MoMA or the PS1 or the Whitney or the Guggenheim or the Met versus just the Columbus (Ohio) Museum of Art, for instance.

To each their own when if comes to CoL and trade-offs, but the differences between St. Louis and NYC are obvious, and for everyone, it's not just about having a grocery store nearby and a 2 bedroom apartment.
 
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efle said:
Dating is a good point I totally hadn't considered. I also was totally content living in a small bedroom with a bunch of room mates for many years...but after experiencing my own much bigger apartment with my SO we could never go back and are hype for even more space, privacy, and convenience with a house. It's funny to think a few years ago we were happy in dorms with communal bathrooms, handwashing our dishes, and dragging laundry to the communal washers/dryers!
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Some of the best times of my life were living in a 10x10 dorm with 3 beds and 4 roommates (school put 3 in a room meant for 2 and then we adopted a 4th that didnt want to ever stay with their own roommates lol) lol not to mention living off of microwave burritos and cup of noodles

Yeah if i knew I would have enough time for a dog or was planning on kids I’d absolutely be prioritizing affordability of homes, but its just not on my list of priorities atm. That being said, I still dont want to pay 2k+ for any apartment and dont wanna deal with big city traffic, so mid sized city/metro area will still hopefully be the move for me
 
1) Dating prospects if you're not white in a major city is gonna be very different from the suburbs. the more of a minority you are the more it will be a difference.
2) Everyone doesn't care about housing size at all. I personally want to live in a big busy downtown, I know I won't be able to save much on my resident salary (although at least bigger programs in SF/LA/NYC will give you stipends so your salary becomes 73-75k PGY1. I won't save much during residency but I'm young its fine I want to enjoy myself and the amount I don't save I can make up later.
3) Who else is hooked on GME and AMC during interviews LOL.
 
efle said:
People who are trying to match and live in SF, NYC, Boston, LA, etc on 60-65k per year - what's your reasoning that makes it worth the CoL? Nearly all my friends are trying to go to these kinds of cities, and many didn't even bother applying to programs anywhere but the coasts.

Having spent my adult life in "undesirable" places like St Louis and Baltimore, can someone clue me in on why? These are real cities with metros of 2-3 million people, plenty of restaurants and bars and movie theaters and concert venues and sports arenas, mild winters, safe suburbs all the docs live in, and for the same price as renting a 600 sqft studio in california you can pay the mortgage on a 2000 sqft house.

So help me out folks. What are y'all planning to do in a place like Boston or coastal california cities that you couldn't find elsewhere? What is it about these places that trumps your housing situation, and having plenty of spending money?
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Family/SO is always a major factor.

Also Baltimore isn't NYC even if you can technically find whatever it is you need, and everyone has different value structures for what they want. For many it's a chance to live in one of these famous places for a structured short amount of time that they will never get later on.
 
OverlyRomantic said:
It's definitely about family. trust me, I am not looking forward to living like a peasant as a doctor in a big metro city, but family is family
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Dr.Bruh said:
Never thought i'd be thankful that my family sucks and I have zero desire to ever live near them lol. Kinda liberating actually. Knowing I can go wherever I truly want to.
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As someone who actually likes their family but has still spent most of the past 15 years living far away from them, I agree with Dr.Bruh.

It's liberating to be able to go wherever you want to go.
 
Appreciate all the responses guys. I hadnt thought about dating, ethnicity specific communities/dating, or having little desire for bigger/nicer housing.

Also a great point that later on it matters much more. Salary for my specialty is substantially higher away from the coasts, so if I wanted a few years in Manhattan, now would be my chance to do it with much less opportunity cost.
 
The ultra high COL areas like NYC/SF/LA also have things like a much larger LGBTQ+ community, networking opportunities for certain fields like tech, entertainment/media, and finance for SO, and a lot more higher end restaurants than, say, Baltimore (not that I can even afford Chipotle at this point).
 
RamsFan&FutureDO said:
Anyone send an LOI to your number 1 and get zero reply? Knew I’d overthink this
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Havent sent one personally but i can affirm youre not alone, there was a pretty long comment thread in the ortho sheet of people getting no response/neutral/luke warm responses at best.

One of my interviews the PD pulled up a message (forgot which organizing body it was so idk if this is specific to ortho or what) they got saying to basically pull back on PIC this year, even though he mentioned he disagrees with the no PIC crowd and usually likes to do PIC, he admitted he wont be doing it this year. So i wouldnt take it as a bad sign if you dont get a response/get a neutral response!
 
Scrubs101 said:
Havent sent one personally but i can affirm youre not alone, there was a pretty long comment thread in the ortho sheet of people getting no response/neutral/luke warm responses at best.

One of my interviews the PD pulled up a message (forgot which organizing body it was so idk if this is specific to ortho or what) they got saying to basically pull back on PIC this year, even though he mentioned he disagrees with the no PIC crowd and usually likes to do PIC, he admitted he wont be doing it this year. So i wouldnt take it as a bad sign if you dont get a response/get a neutral response!
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I just wanna feel wanted lolol my impatience has increased 1000% now that interview season is over
 
RamsFan&FutureDO said:
Anyone send an LOI to your number 1 and get zero reply? Knew I’d overthink this
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No contact or vague/canned responses is absolutely the norm! It def depends per institution/program, but my PD and advisor have both said this. I know it won't assuage your anxiety, but thems be the facts. Love letters from PD's or unsolicited contact is less likely. That's why I'm not even reading much into the surprise one that I received.

But I totally get wanting to hear SOMETHING. I feel like they could move up match day a few weeks if they really wanted to.
 
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Banco said:
No contact or vague/canned responses is absolutely the norm! It def depends per institution/program, but my PD and advisor have both said this. I know it won't assuage your anxiety, but thems be the facts. Love letters from PD's or unsolicited contact is less likely. That's why I'm not even reading much into the surprise one that I received.

But I totally get wanting to hear SOMETHING. I feel like they could move up match day a few weeks if they really wanted to.
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Have been told I’m RTM at top 2 thus far. Not terribly uncommon
 
NecrotizingFasciitis said:
I've had residents kinda indirectly ask about my interview season, where I've interviewed, what my rank list looks like, etc. on away rotations (on my last one) at programs I have interviewed at (& even one attending)...

I've been super protective of this information thus far & not given too much away; am I being overly protective? The nightmare paying out in my head is one of the residents telling a PD or something where else I've interviewed & being bumped to the bottom of their rank list hah.
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Definitely depends on how much you trust the resident involved but for the most part I was open about where I was applying and where I interviewed with residents I worked with. I of course did the "I would be happy to match here and I am also looking at XYZ" dance but that wasn't really ever a lie. For me I hoped that they would have insight on the programs or have friends in them that had thoughts about the program, etc. Maybe it varies by field or program but I would never try to mess up a student like that. If anything, I would email the PD about how great the rotator I am working with is, not the other way around (at least, not for something like you not suicide matching).
 
Today one of our faculty members asked me how many “id love to be a resident at your program” and LOI’s that i sent out lolol
He asked how seriously would I take it.

truthfully i didnt know how to answer
 
ciestar said:
Today one of our faculty members asked me how many “id love to be a resident at your program” and LOI’s that i sent out lolol
He asked how seriously would I take it.

truthfully i didnt know how to answer
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I think "id love to be a resident at your program" is equivalent to the program saying "id love to see you here in July!". It probably doesn't mean much. LOIs slightly more. Maybe you're #1, maybe they sent it to 2-5. But I don't think people are sending them to everyone. I'm personally trying to decide if I want to send one to my #1 at all. I sent them a pre-interview LOI which I don't know if it mattered or was added to my file already or not.
 
For those who are sending these letters of intent or whatever, which specialty are you applying?

In IM, it seems like a lot of places discourage post-interview communication.
 
iamarosepetal said:
my PD said to send letter to your top 3 so that's what I did. he said it didn't matter to him personally if it said #1 since he has gotten burned a lot of times by people writing "NUMBER 1" to multiple programs.
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Did you write I’d love to be a part of your program for numbers 2&3? Debating doing this now haha
 
Banco said:
That's good for you man, but it's not something to be expected from most programs; definitely not something to be anxious about for 2 months.
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which is partly why I haven't written a "you're number 1" email yet. I know about myself that I would be less anxious without any conversation than with me reaching out and it not being answered.
 
Well SDN I’m feeling a bit down right now. The program at my SOs hospital sent me an II only after I sent a LOI back in November and had 3 people vouch for me.

Turns out they offered me what felt like a courtesy interview for their very last day, and then during the interview I was told that “the reasons I took a gap year between 3rd and 4th years weren’t good”, and told by a chief resident that I need to not get my information from online in reference to me asking a question about the EM job market. Although I was told it’s tight by residents from two separate programs and they thought I was referring to some resident interview from an obscure newspaper out west.

Overall I really just felt unwanted compared to the something-teen other interviews I’ve been on who were all excited to meet me and talk about my year off. it’s making it really hard to enthusiastically write my Letter of Intent since this is my #1.

Just had to vent a little.
 
scrublyfe21 said:
Well SDN I’m feeling a bit down right now. The program at my SOs hospital sent me an II only after I sent a LOI back in November and had 3 people vouch for me.

Turns out they offered me what felt like a courtesy interview for their very last day, and then during the interview I was told that “the reasons I took a gap year between 3rd and 4th years weren’t good”, and told by a chief resident that I need to not get my information from online in reference to me asking a question about the EM job market. Although I was told it’s tight by residents from two separate programs and they thought I was referring to some resident interview from an obscure newspaper out west.

Overall I really just felt unwanted compared to the something-teen other interviews I’ve been on who were all excited to meet me and talk about my year off. it’s making it really hard to enthusiastically write my Letter of Intent since this is my #1.

Just had to vent a little.
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It's okay!! I'm sorry this happened to you. I had one interview I was really really excited since that hospital was in my parents' city ....but then during the interview I got asked left field questions and when asked what I'd do during the dedicated research period, the interviewer was like GET TO THE POINT even though I answered in one sentence??? And said this with every single answer which I was so confused about cause I kept abbreviating. Fact is, people have their minds made up and it's absolutely asinine and humiliating and degrading - many programs if not all have a pre rank list and that affects everything. This process is so so so ridiculous and tinged with bias. It has nothing to do with you. It's funny cause the professionalism is only demanded on our side (as students) and not of these ridiculous people in power. They also had a clear favorite since in the concluding and introducing remarks they kept bringing up one particular applicant's name.
You deserve a place who wants you, but I know that this must be devastating since you could reunite with your significant other. Fingers crossed you match here! You never know what could happen *virtual hug* Maybe they wanted to keep the pressure on the interviewees.
 
sunshinefl said:
which is partly why I haven't written a "you're number 1" email yet. I know about myself that I would be less anxious without any conversation than with me reaching out and it not being answered.
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That might be true that it would make you more anxious, but a lot of programs make their rank lists fairly quickly and your LOI won’t mean anything if you send it too late
 
scrublyfe21 said:
Well SDN I’m feeling a bit down right now. The program at my SOs hospital sent me an II only after I sent a LOI back in November and had 3 people vouch for me.

Turns out they offered me what felt like a courtesy interview for their very last day, and then during the interview I was told that “the reasons I took a gap year between 3rd and 4th years weren’t good”, and told by a chief resident that I need to not get my information from online in reference to me asking a question about the EM job market. Although I was told it’s tight by residents from two separate programs and they thought I was referring to some resident interview from an obscure newspaper out west.

Overall I really just felt unwanted compared to the something-teen other interviews I’ve been on who were all excited to meet me and talk about my year off. it’s making it really hard to enthusiastically write my Letter of Intent since this is my #1.

Just had to vent a little.
Click to expand...

Sounds a bit like a blessing in disguise honestly. I'm going with the flow for match, going to make the best of it for the program that really wanted me even if it's low on my list.
 
scrublyfe21 said:
Well SDN I’m feeling a bit down right now. The program at my SOs hospital sent me an II only after I sent a LOI back in November and had 3 people vouch for me.

Turns out they offered me what felt like a courtesy interview for their very last day, and then during the interview I was told that “the reasons I took a gap year between 3rd and 4th years weren’t good”, and told by a chief resident that I need to not get my information from online in reference to me asking a question about the EM job market. Although I was told it’s tight by residents from two separate programs and they thought I was referring to some resident interview from an obscure newspaper out west.

Overall I really just felt unwanted compared to the something-teen other interviews I’ve been on who were all excited to meet me and talk about my year off. it’s making it really hard to enthusiastically write my Letter of Intent since this is my #1.

Just had to vent a little.
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Dude I’m sorry to hear that, is there any other hospital where you interviewed nearby? It’s hard, I think it’s absolutely important that you try to maximize your chances near your SO but man I’m devastated to hear they treated you like that— might be worth considering that one faculty interviewer isn’t representative of the program at large. Still, if there’s anything like an hour away maybe consider that place over this if they truly did make you feel like garbage throughout your interview day— remember know your worth. You have options.
 
scrublyfe21 said:
Well SDN I’m feeling a bit down right now. The program at my SOs hospital sent me an II only after I sent a LOI back in November and had 3 people vouch for me.

Turns out they offered me what felt like a courtesy interview for their very last day, and then during the interview I was told that “the reasons I took a gap year between 3rd and 4th years weren’t good”, and told by a chief resident that I need to not get my information from online in reference to me asking a question about the EM job market. Although I was told it’s tight by residents from two separate programs and they thought I was referring to some resident interview from an obscure newspaper out west.

Overall I really just felt unwanted compared to the something-teen other interviews I’ve been on who were all excited to meet me and talk about my year off. it’s making it really hard to enthusiastically write my Letter of Intent since this is my #1.

Just had to vent a little.
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Similar experience at an interview I had the other day. Got an invite late to a program I was really excited about. PD basically told me my app was lacking in my interview with them. Also made a comment relating to patient care, and I felt like they were telling me I'm going to be a bad doctor. The interview day was 6 hours long I was pissed.
 
efle said:
Appreciate all the responses guys. I hadnt thought about dating, ethnicity specific communities/dating, or having little desire for bigger/nicer housing.

Also a great point that later on it matters much more. Salary for my specialty is substantially higher away from the coasts, so if I wanted a few years in Manhattan, now would be my chance to do it with much less opportunity cost.
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Dating prospects is a huge factor and it's not a superficial as it sounds. I'm a single guy in my late 20s. Meaning i'll likely meet the woman Im going to spend the rest of my life with in the city I match residency in. And theres a good chance she will be a local and have her family and support system there. So I have to not only be ok with living there for 3-7years for residency, but also for the rest of my life if the woman I marry wants to stay. Blows my mind how overlooked this goes (for single people at least).
 
Dr.Bruh said:
Dating prospects is a huge factor and it's not a superficial as it sounds. I'm a single guy in my late 20s. Meaning i'll likely meet the woman Im going to spend the rest of my life with in the city I match residency in. And theres a good chance she will be a local and have her family and support system there. So I have to not only be ok with living there for 3-7years for residency, but also for the rest of my life if the woman I marry wants to stay. Blows my mind how overlooked this goes (for single people at least).
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It must be really rough for IM residents planning to apply competative fellowships
 
Dr.Bruh said:
Dating prospects is a huge factor and it's not a superficial as it sounds. I'm a single guy in my late 20s. Meaning i'll likely meet the woman Im going to spend the rest of my life with in the city I match residency in. And theres a good chance she will be a local and have her family and support system there. So I have to not only be ok with living there for 3-7years for residency, but also for the rest of my life if the woman I marry wants to stay. Blows my mind how overlooked this goes (for single people at least).
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THIS 10x
 
softball2344 said:
Similar experience at an interview I had the other day. Got an invite late to a program I was really excited about. PD basically told me my app was lacking in my interview with them. Also made a comment relating to patient care, and I felt like they were telling me I'm going to be a bad doctor. The interview day was 6 hours long I was pissed.
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I know it feelsbadman but you should view it as a blessing that you saw how crappy they’d probably be to you before you matched there.
 
efle said:
People who are trying to match and live in SF, NYC, Boston, LA...
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Another take: I am a physician scientist - The science I want to do is done in very few places, many of which are in these locations. Gotta chase those R01 dreams cause I think I have a shot a helping people with what I want to (hope to) do for a disease that has deeply impacted me and my family.
 
PipetteDreams said:
Another take: I am a physician scientist - The science I want to do is done in very few places, many of which are in these locations. Gotta chase those R01 dreams cause I think I have a shot a helping people with what I want to (hope to) do for a disease that has deeply impacted me and my family.
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This is totally reasonable if research is your focus but the idea that those are the only cities legit medical science is primarily being done is silly just look at the locations of Mayo, CC, Hopkins, WashU etc. Hell, the spike protein mRNA template that was developed for the COVID vaccine was developed at UT Austin.
 
Dr.Bruh said:
This is totally reasonable if research is your focus but the idea that those are the only cities legit medical science is primarily being done is silly just look at the locations of Mayo, CC, Hopkins, WashU etc. Hell, the spike protein mRNA template that was developed for the COVID vaccine was developed at UT Austin.
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Your n=1 lol...look at the number of legit pubs that come from one of those listed vs UT Austin. Research at one of the top places are undeniably better and the effort you have to put in to get pub is also less...
 
frenchyn said:
Your n=1 lol...look at the number of legit pubs that come from one of those listed vs UT Austin. Research at one of the top places are undeniably better and the effort you have to put in to get pub is also less...
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How is Hopkins, CC, Mayo, WashU n=1? Lol. These are research powerhouses and not in the most desirable locations. Which was the point
 
Espressso said:
PDF?!?! Omg haven't heard of that madness. I just sent a simple little email. People actually create pdfs for this?
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I'm not sure. I wasn't planning to, but was googling another specific question about residency #1 LOIs and some stuff popped up about sending it as a formal letter PDF. That's why I was asking here lol.
 
I have NO IDEA what to do with #5-#10 on my rank list. I have gotten personalized love letter emails from two programs in that range (not RTM but really gushy emails that apparently not everyone is getting). It's really hard not to let that sway my opinion, though I know these emails -- particularly because they don't outright say rank to match -- are nothing to hang one's hat on.

Even harder because while I loved both of these programs, one is in a location my spouse dislikes, and the other is in a location I dislike. Super struggling with how to factor in location versus vibe and "gut feeling" in that section of my list. Applying Peds. I know people can't tell me what to do, so I'm more just venting :dead: ugh
 
Dr.Bruh said:
How is Hopkins, CC, Mayo, WashU n=1? Lol. These are research powerhouses and not in the most desirable locations. Which was the point
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I meant UT Austin n=1 LOL. Even thot covid vaccine came out from there...tay is only n=1...vs the other institutions. You misread my post.
 
banana_phone said:
I have NO IDEA what to do with #5-#10 on my rank list. I have gotten personalized love letter emails from two programs in that range (not RTM but really gushy emails that apparently not everyone is getting). It's really hard not to let that sway my opinion, though I know these emails -- particularly because they don't outright say rank to match -- are nothing to hang one's hat on.

Even harder because while I loved both of these programs, one is in a location my spouse dislikes, and the other is in a location I dislike. Super struggling with how to factor in location versus vibe and "gut feeling" in that section of my list. Applying Peds. I know people can't tell me what to do, so I'm more just venting :dead: ugh
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If I wasn’t super pulled either way I just let my spouse give most of the input in that range.
 
banana_phone said:
I have NO IDEA what to do with #5-#10 on my rank list. I have gotten personalized love letter emails from two programs in that range (not RTM but really gushy emails that apparently not everyone is getting). It's really hard not to let that sway my opinion, though I know these emails -- particularly because they don't outright say rank to match -- are nothing to hang one's hat on.

Even harder because while I loved both of these programs, one is in a location my spouse dislikes, and the other is in a location I dislike. Super struggling with how to factor in location versus vibe and "gut feeling" in that section of my list. Applying Peds. I know people can't tell me what to do, so I'm more just venting :dead: ugh
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What do “gushy” emails say? I got few responses to thank you email saying delighted to recruit you or very interested to train you here...nothing like RTM...but I take it w a light of salt
 
banana_phone said:
I have NO IDEA what to do with #5-#10 on my rank list. I have gotten personalized love letter emails from two programs in that range (not RTM but really gushy emails that apparently not everyone is getting). It's really hard not to let that sway my opinion, though I know these emails -- particularly because they don't outright say rank to match -- are nothing to hang one's hat on.

Even harder because while I loved both of these programs, one is in a location my spouse dislikes, and the other is in a location I dislike. Super struggling with how to factor in location versus vibe and "gut feeling" in that section of my list. Applying Peds. I know people can't tell me what to do, so I'm more just venting :dead: ugh
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Agree with the bolded. The top and the bottom are easy, the middle... who knows. They all look the same on zoom.
 
frenchyn said:
What do “gushy” emails say? I got few responses to thank you email saying delighted to recruit you or very interested to train you here...nothing like RTM...but I take it w a light of salt
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the two that I got were unprompted - I had not reached out or sent thank you's to these programs - saying basically (paraphrasing for anonymity) "we've met as a committee to discuss interviewees and you are among the top group of candidates we want to recruit. your app was impressive and you impressed us further on interview day"

carrying on to say what their programs would offer and that they are eager to partner with me.

still, taking it with a grain of salt. and agree with the above poster, in this part of the list -- partner should have a strong say. unfortunately, he won't give much input at all! frustrating!
 
frenchyn said:
What do “gushy” emails say? I got few responses to thank you email saying delighted to recruit you or very interested to train you here...nothing like RTM...but I take it w a light of salt
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It's not a response to a thank you letter. A lot of thank you letter responses as nice as they sound are copied and pasted (I compared with some friends on hte interview trail)

Rather out of the blue one day you get an email explaining why they liked you, bits and pieces from your convo with interviewers, and why they think you'd do well there. happens completely out of the blue after they're done interviewing and have thier final rank list meeting. i've had 2 of these so far.
 
banana_phone said:
I have NO IDEA what to do with #5-#10 on my rank list. I have gotten personalized love letter emails from two programs in that range (not RTM but really gushy emails that apparently not everyone is getting). It's really hard not to let that sway my opinion, though I know these emails -- particularly because they don't outright say rank to match -- are nothing to hang one's hat on.

Even harder because while I loved both of these programs, one is in a location my spouse dislikes, and the other is in a location I dislike. Super struggling with how to factor in location versus vibe and "gut feeling" in that section of my list. Applying Peds. I know people can't tell me what to do, so I'm more just venting :dead: ugh
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holdthemayo said:
Agree with the bolded. The top and the bottom are easy, the middle... who knows. They all look the same on zoom.
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Ranks #2-6 are the toughest right now for me. I feel like there’s a decent chance I don’t match with my #1 so it seems there's a lot riding on it. Hopefully you all don't have to worry about falling to #5-10
 
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