COCA Accreditation standards?

[DrStephenStrange]

Is COCA trying to tighten up their accreditation standards? or is it just a fluke that all these schools are getting Accreditation with heightened monitoring? This used to be a very rare thing for any school to receive accreditation warnings, but COCA is handing them out like candy nowadays. Up to 9 DO schools now have heightened monitoring.

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[FootballAndSkiing]

Well 4 of the are VCOM. 4 of them are newer schools that aren't generally super well regarded. I think Western is the head scratcher, but very possible they just messed something up, it happens, but now they get to keep that designation until 2026.

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

Is COCA trying to tighten up their accreditation standards? or is it just a fluke that all these schools are getting Accreditation with heightened monitoring? This use to be a very rare thing for any school to receive accreditation warnings, but COCA is handing them out like candy nowadays. Up to 9 DO schools now have heightened monitoring.

maybe they realize they've been too lenient and need to tighten up? Nah, who am I kidding

 

[DameJulie]

What happened to Western Pomona?

 

[hellosnd]

I may just be a bitter med student but westernU only in the (decent)position they are bc they are in SoCal. Feel like the program has so many flaws and things they don’t care to fix

 

[Goro]

Some of them are surprises to me, others...not surprised at all.

Not holding breath that COCA is tightening up anything

 

[AlteredScale]

COCA updated their continuing accreditation standards in 2019. Looks like a bunch of schools with recent site visits didn't meet those requirements. All of the the schools that have a status of heightened monitoring are because they were dinged for 3 or less areas. There are none with warning or probation.

 

[Aslanim]

LECOM Announces Plans to Open a New Campus at Jacksonville University - Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine

LECOM announced today a new partnership with Jacksonville University to establish a four-year medical school in northeast Florida.

lecom.edu

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

IUP in PA is thinking about one too

 

[Aslanim]

IUP in PA is thinking about one too

Didn't know about that one.
Quite a few in the pipeline these days:
Proposed MD COM (Applicant Status -- Seeking Accreditation) One at Morgan State in Maryland
"UNC Gets Green Light From State to Offer Degree Programs in Osteopathic Medicine, Finalists for Founding Dean Identified" Northern Colorado
Strategic Plan — Orlando College of Osteopathic Medicine (proposed-seeking accreditation) Orlando
LECOM Announces Plans to Open a New Campus at Jacksonville University LECOM Florida #2
"A new Catholic medical school seeks to restore a culture of life". St. Padre Rio in Kansas
Meritus Health Meritus also in Maryland
https://www.myduquesne.duq.edu/s/831/rd/interior.aspx?sid=831&gid=1&pgid=3928&cid=7109&ecid=7109 Duquesne in Pennsylvania
https://www.baptistu.edu/news/dr-pe...-aoa-works-toward-forming-college-osteopathic in Tennessee

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Didn't know about that one.
Quite a few in the pipeline these days:
Proposed MD COM (Applicant Status -- Seeking Accreditation) One at Morgan State in Maryland
"UNC Gets Green Light From State to Offer Degree Programs in Osteopathic Medicine, Finalists for Founding Dean Identified" Northern Colorado
Strategic Plan — Orlando College of Osteopathic Medicine (proposed-seeking accreditation) Orlando
LECOM Announces Plans to Open a New Campus at Jacksonville University LECOM Florida #2
"A new Catholic medical school seeks to restore a culture of life". St. Padre Rio in Kansas
Meritus Health Meritus also in Maryland
https://www.myduquesne.duq.edu/s/831/rd/interior.aspx?sid=831&gid=1&pgid=3928&cid=7109&ecid=7109 Duquesne in Pennsylvania
https://www.baptistu.edu/news/dr-pe...-aoa-works-toward-forming-college-osteopathic in Tennessee

You forgot about the Walmart medical school in NW Arkansas.

Alice Walton bringing new medical school to Northwest Arkansas

A new medical school backed by Walmart heiress Alice Walton is scheduled to welcome its first class of students to Northwest Arkansas in 2024.

www.nwahomepage.com

 

[Aslanim]

You forgot about the Walmart medical school in NW Arkansas.

Alice Walton bringing new medical school to Northwest Arkansas

A new medical school backed by Walmart heiress Alice Walton is scheduled to welcome its first class of students to Northwest Arkansas in 2024.

www.nwahomepage.com

Yeah I was only listing the DO ones.
There's several MD ones in the pipeline too (other than Walmart):
Planned Expansions - School of Medicine > American University of Health Sciences AUHS in California
Belmont University to launch new college of medicine in Nashville Belmont/HCA parternship apparently in Tennessee
Xavier University of Louisiana announces planning phase for Graduate School of Health and Sciences Medical School - Xavier University of Louisiana Xavier in Louisiana
About the SOCM Keck Graduate Institute in California

If anyone knows any other ones MD or DO feel free to enlighten me.

 

[hellosnd]

God pls make it stop. Or at least open up more residency spots...

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

IUP officials consider school of osteopathic medicine — 1st at a Pa. public university

Indiana University of Pennsylvania could open the state’s first school of osteopathic medicine at a public university, a venture to train and graduate professionals to improve rural health and advance Pennsylvania’s economy. A resolution to endorse the state-owned university to explore the...

triblive.com

Because western PA needs more osteopathic medical schools (this would be the 4th)

 

[Ho0v-man]

Lol HCA and Walmart are opening medical schools. What a time to be alive…

 

[Goro]

At some point, these schools will run out of applicants who can actually handle medical school, and we'll see larger attrition rates.

 

[Real McCoy]

At some point, these schools will run out of applicants who can actually handle medical school, and we'll see larger attrition rates.

Are currently seeing*

 

[FutureIMdoc123]

Most recent directory as of December 2022 is out. Interesting LMU went from "heightened monitoring" to "exceptional outcome"

 

[sylvanthus]

Quick question, do these “warnings” come with a financial gain to COCA?

 

[officially_apostate]

IUP officials consider school of osteopathic medicine — 1st at a Pa. public university

Indiana University of Pennsylvania could open the state’s first school of osteopathic medicine at a public university, a venture to train and graduate professionals to improve rural health and advance Pennsylvania’s economy. A resolution to endorse the state-owned university to explore the...

triblive.com

Because western PA needs more osteopathic medical schools (this would be the 4th)

are you counting LECOM Erie and LECOM Seton Hill separately?

 

[Goro]

Quick question, do these “warnings” come with a financial gain to COCA?

No

 

[soontobedoc98]

Just curious... what happens if a school actually loses accreditation?

Does this happen often? A lot of schools I thought were good, are on this list

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

are you counting LECOM Erie and LECOM Seton Hill separately?

yes

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Just curious... what happens if a school actually loses accreditation?

Does this happen often? A lot of schools I thought were good, are on this list

I've never seen it happen in the DO world. What would happen is that they would take away the accreditation and the students currently at the school will be allowed to continue and graduate in an accredited way, but the school would not be able to recruit a new class. The only way this would get worse would be some extremely gross violations, which i doubt would ever happen. COCA is not in the business of ruining the lives of students

 

[MateoGM416]

At some point, these schools will run out of applicants who can actually handle medical school, and we'll see larger attrition rates.

There are thousands of applicants who can make it through med school that don't get in, so I personally don't see how more schools is a bad thing, unless all of these students only want to be surgeons or ophthalmologists

 

[hellosnd]

residency slots can’t keep up. Rather bottle neck at med school than at residency where you are over six figures in debt and potentially jobless in your 30s after giving up your late 20s

 

[MateoGM416]

residency slots can’t keep up. Rather bottle neck at med school than at residency where you are over six figures in debt and potentially jobless in your 30s after giving up your late 20s

Aren't there something like 2000 residency slots that go unfilled each year?

 

[MDMechEngr]

There are thousands of applicants who can make it through med school that don't get in, so I personally don't see how more schools is a bad thing, unless all of these students only want to be surgeons or ophthalmologists

The online NP programs have this same mentality.

 

[hellosnd]

As a US based student, there should be at least enough residency spots (non-toxic ones) for all US grads before IMGs. I’m def biased tho

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

As a US based student, there should be at least enough residency spots (non-toxic ones) for all US grads before IMGs. I’m def biased tho

there's like 10k more residency spots than there are US grads

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

there's like 10k more residency spots than there are US grads

Nice, we can still open 50 new medical schools. COCA will be delighted.

 

[DO2015CA]

there's like 10k more residency spots than there are US grads

Although true, not every one of those programs will choose DO over FMG. That’s another discussion though. I don’t think we need to continue opening schools nor put IMGs in a secondary match. We need to stop opening all US med schools and work on redistributing our docs through incentives that are truly impactful. After that a true needs assessment for physician need can be completed.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Although true, not every one of those programs will choose DO over FMG. That’s another discussion though. I don’t think we need to continue opening schools nor put IMGs in a secondary match. We need to stop opening all US med schools and work on redistributing our docs through incentives that are truly impactful. After that a true needs assessment for physician need can be completed.

There's plenty of good people that are still driven into the Caribbean. Personally, I don't have a problem with school expansion as long as it is done at reputable established places with research, rotations and GME. No more of these McLECOM or McTouro campuses. I do think it's time for the US to prioritize its graduates and make sure IMGs are in a separate after-match

 

[DO2015CA]

There's plenty of good people that are still driven into the Caribbean. Personally, I don't have a problem with school expansion as long as it is done at reputable established places with research, rotations and GME. No more of these McLECOM or McTouro campuses. I do think it's time for the US to prioritize its graduates and make sure IMGs are in a separate after-match

We disagree on that last part and that’s fine. Having the better applicant regardless of citizenship is good for American citizens. We already have the advantage. If people are still losing out to FMGs then it’s either something wrong with the American applicant or the accomplishments of the FMG (most of the time. Nothing is 100% of the time).

Idk if I believe that there are a plenty of good applicants DRIVEN to the Carib. There are certainly some that make that choice rather than go to a DO program based on some sort of bias. But it has been proposed on here that we are reaching the limit of those that can handle the medschool curriculum as evidenced by the lower stats of these new schools and higher attrition rates. Now that’s a multi factorial problem that I’m not sold on because new schools themselves are bad at delivering instruction and support for the first several years.

 

[DrZoidbergDO]

We disagree on that last part and that’s fine. Having the better applicant regardless of citizenship is good for American citizens. We already have the advantage. If people are still losing out to FMGs then it’s either something wrong with the American applicant or the accomplishments of the FMG (most of the time. Nothing is 100% of the time).

Idk if I believe that there are a plenty of good applicants DRIVEN to the Carib. There are certainly some that make that choice rather than go to a DO program based on some sort of bias. But it has been proposed on here that we are reaching the limit of those that can handle the medschool curriculum as evidenced by the lower stats of these new schools and higher attrition rates. Now that’s a multi factorial problem that I’m not sold on because new schools themselves are bad at delivering instruction and support for the first several years.

any time i see complaints that fmg's are taking away jobs from us grads i laugh so much. deyy tuk ur jebs is such a stupid idea, if you're a US grad and can't match into IM/FM/Peds that's on you

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

We disagree on that last part and that’s fine. Having the better applicant regardless of citizenship is good for American citizens. We already have the advantage. If people are still losing out to FMGs then it’s either something wrong with the American applicant or the accomplishments of the FMG (most of the time. Nothing is 100% of the time).

Idk if I believe that there are a plenty of good applicants DRIVEN to the Carib. There are certainly some that make that choice rather than go to a DO program based on some sort of bias. But it has been proposed on here that we are reaching the limit of those that can handle the medschool curriculum as evidenced by the lower stats of these new schools and higher attrition rates. Now that’s a multi factorial problem that I’m not sold on because new schools themselves are bad at delivering instruction and support for the first several years.

There are plenty of FMG PDs out there that will take an FMG applicant over a DO

There's really no objective way for you to say an FMG is a "better applicant" as the comparison is never apples to apples. For example, I knew someone that had finished medical school in India, worked for a year in a cardiology wing, then studied exclusively for a year for step 1 then another year for step 2 and 3. They did fantastic on the steps. Put this against someone that went to an MD or DO school that had to learn the entire curriculum for step 1 for the first time in a year and 10 months, take the test, then work in clinical rotations for a year taking step 2 at the end. They may have scored lower than the Indian applicant, but they simply didn't have the same opportunities. Besides, I think understanding the culture matters a lot. I know plenty FMG attendings that simply do not fit with the culture and are a problem. Add to this that the US should prioritize its citizens (like other countries do) is in the best interest for the country that spent money and time training them

If you think that an MD/DO applicant has "something wrong," then you should change the rules for what it means to graduate from medical school. If you think 3 attempts are too many for each step, have them take a max of 2 or 1, but you cannot say they aren't qualified for the job if they meet the requirements set forth by the accrediting institutions and state

As soon as you create a two-tier system, those people that choose Caribbean due to bias, they will go to DO schools. Also, many Caribbean people don't make it into DO and resort to Caribbean as a result. Most of the ones that go to Caribbean just lie and say they didn't want DO or didn't know about DO because it's more socially acceptable than to be seen as double rejects

 

[MateoGM416]

The online NP programs have this same mentality.

That's a non sequitur

 

[TruthInMedEd]

No

COCA Fee Schedules were up adjusted by 7% in 2022. Schools on Heightened Monitoring pay $16,050 more than schools who are on full accreditation in annual COCA dues/fees. There is more work that goes into obtaining updates and reports, monitoring of schools outside of full accreditation, etc. so it is hard to say how much of that is "profit" but there is an increased cost to schools placed on Heightened Monitoring, etc.

 

[Goro]

COCA Fee Schedules were up adjusted by 7% in 2022. Schools on Heightened Monitoring pay $16,050 more than schools who are on full accreditation in annual COCA dues/fees. There is more work that goes into obtaining updates and reports, monitoring of schools outside of full accreditation, etc. so it is hard to say how much of that is "profit" but there is an increased cost to schools placed on Heightened Monitoring, etc.

I never knew that! Many thanks for sharing. It's nice to know this!

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Plus they would get to go Southern California more often rather than say middle of nowhere Kentucky

 

[hellosnd]

COMPs heightened monitoring has been removed.