cold calling

[2121115]

Here is a question that I haven't seen posted and couldn't find via search.

What is the best way to approach cold calling a practice? I am at a "big name" place for residency/fellowship and I'd like to investigate practices that are several states away in a more rural area closer to where I grew up. These are places that I'd like to work, but would be unlikely to call the program with an open position just because it is several states away. Should I just find a contact number for the practice via google, call up whoever answers (probably a secretary, etc), and essentially say "hey I am 2121115. I am a pathology resident at X program and I'd like see if you guys will be looking for a new pathologist anytime soon. who should I speak to about this"?

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[LADoc00]

I HATE cold calls. Even worse the random spam mails from FMGs (note: some PD from upstate NY has given out my name and I keep getting random CVs from the same programs...).

That said, you want to go back to a rural area. I would advise you to find out the pathologists who are there, call em up and take them out for drinks to get "career advice". Slip into the conversation you really want to come back to the area at time X.

Its interesting, when you make someone part of your success story by sitting and chatting and taking the time to get to know them, they will help you.

 

[yaah]

I would also add that it is not always advisable to immediately go and contact the guy/gal who runs the department - they might blow you off. You can have more success by contacting one of the "regular" pathologists (one who might have more in common with your specific interests, for example, or your background), who may have more time to talk with you and if they like you, can put in a good word for you.

Unfortunately like LADoc00 alludes to not everything is going to appeal to all comers. If I was in the position to hire someone (might be someday, not yet obviously) I would vastly prefer getting an email with contact info than a phone call. But I am a part of generation X (I think) where non-phone contact is preferable. The best way would be to get introduced to the person by an intermediary who you respect (like an attending at your program who the hirer knows as well). But that isn't always possible.

 

[KeratinPearls]

I HATE cold calls. Even worse the random spam mails from FMGs (note: some PD from upstate NY has given out my name and I keep getting random CVs from the same programs...).

That said, you want to go back to a rural area. I would advise you to find out the pathologists who are there, call em up and take them out for drinks to get "career advice". Slip into the conversation you really want to come back to the area at time X.

Its interesting, when you make someone part of your success story by sitting and chatting and taking the time to get to know them, they will help you.

Why rural? Is that the only hope for new trainees coming out of residency?

 

[2121115]

Why rural? Is that the only hope for new trainees coming out of residency?

Ha, ha! No, don't freak out. The recent graduates of my program have all gotten good jobs in non-rural places. I want to go back closer to where I grew up, thats all. These types of places probably wouldn't call my program with an opening because it is several states away and they probably figure nobody from my program would be interested in coming there. I was just trying to see how I could get my foot in the door and let them know I'm interested if they are looking.

Thanks for the comments yaah and LADoc00. I agree. Cold calling is awkward for the caller as well as the person receiving the call. I too would rather be contacted by email first, but you know how people in the generation ahead of us might see that as at best weak interest and at worst an insult. Often times emails just get deleted without a second thought. I guess I'm just going to try and find some ways to get plugged in to the local scene there instead.

 

[LADoc00]

Why rural? Is that the only hope for new trainees coming out of residency?

What? No, I miswrote that or you are misreading, the OP said he wanted a job in a more rural area back home I thought....

No one panic lol. If you are set on a rural job, you need to be more proactive because those groups tend not to attend society meetings, grand rounds at large med centers etc due to distance. Hence my statement.

Clear now?

But yes generally it is easier to get a job in a rural portion of CA than say Santa Monica, San Deigo or SF.

 

[yaah]

Interestingly, rural pathologists do tend to attend educational sessions that the closest large program puts on. Kind of like day-long mini conferences where most of the presenters are departmental experts. I met a few pathologists from rural areas at those.

 

[BierstiefelAndy]

This is a great question and it's good that this question was finally raised. When I was looking for jobs, I had the same question as well.

I was told by some influential people to NEVER cold call anyone. They did the cold-calling for me.

Story #1: I did send out a CV & a cover letter to a person who was a friend of a friend at one institution...long story short, the place never got back to me. FAIL.

Story #2: Phone call is made on my behalf. I get paged in the middle of the day to send my CV. 2 hours later, I get invited for an interview. Day after interview, I get job. WIN.

Trainees at our program are basically told not to cold call people. Fortunately, we have a few senior faculty members who will call folks for us and sniff out situations. So, if you can, I would go that route. You mention that you're at a big name program...there must be somebody influential there who could make some calls for you. That's how a lot of us get our jobs.

Here is a question that I haven't seen posted and couldn't find via search.

What is the best way to approach cold calling a practice? I am at a "big name" place for residency/fellowship and I'd like to investigate practices that are several states away in a more rural area closer to where I grew up. These are places that I'd like to work, but would be unlikely to call the program with an open position just because it is several states away. Should I just find a contact number for the practice via google, call up whoever answers (probably a secretary, etc), and essentially say "hey I am 2121115. I am a pathology resident at X program and I'd like see if you guys will be looking for a new pathologist anytime soon. who should I speak to about this"?

 

[2121115]

This is a great question and it's good that this question was finally raised. When I was looking for jobs, I had the same question as well.

I was told by some influential people to NEVER cold call anyone. They did the cold-calling for me.

Story #1: I did send out a CV & a cover letter to a person who was a friend of a friend at one institution...long story short, the place never got back to me. FAIL.

Story #2: Phone call is made on my behalf. I get paged in the middle of the day to send my CV. 2 hours later, I get invited for an interview. Day after interview, I get job. WIN.

Trainees at our program are basically told not to cold call people. Fortunately, we have a few senior faculty members who will call folks for us and sniff out situations. So, if you can, I would go that route. You mention that you're at a big name program...there must be somebody influential there who could make some calls for you. That's how a lot of us get our jobs.

Good post, that is very helpful. I am trying to put together a job search strategy and given how seemingly random finding a job can be and the degree of chance that comes into play, I want to "make my own luck" as much as possible. I'm not going to be one of those guys who is complaining about the job market but didn't actively search. If I wind up with no job or a bad job it is not going to be because I didn't put forth the effort. If I go down I'm going to go down swinging... hard.

With that said, it makes me want to take matters into my own hands rather than depend on someone else to make a call or depend on a practice that I'd like to work with just happening to call while I'm looking for a job or whatever. Although, I can see how this could be an annoyance and it would mean so much more coming from well respected faculty. Overall, I get the impression that cold calling is awkward and I'd rather not do it, however, I don't want to be "that guy who wasn't assertive enough" or "that guy who didn't try" during the job search.

 

[Parts Unknown]

Good post, that is very helpful. I am trying to put together a job search strategy and given how seemingly random finding a job can be and the degree of chance that comes into play, I want to "make my own luck" as much as possible.

There was a mention of cold calling in CAP Today a few years back (Job Seekers, Prepare for Landing, June 2005):

Cold calls also work. “I actually did a lot of cold-calling when I was looking for a job,” Dr. Brown recalls. Some prefer to write a letter first, then follow up with a phone call; Dr. Brown favors the opposite approach. “If you send a letter, that may just get shuffled in with the rest of their mail that’s been sitting on their desks for a couple of weeks.” Calling first, however, will help them spot your followup letter when it arrives. “It may give you that slight advantage that may be just enough to get you in the door for an interview.”

Obviously there is no one-size-fits-all approach. The head of one of our private affiliates in my residency program said she received unsolicited CVs all the time, and was sometimes interested in the candidates. The key was to follow up with a call or email for her to remain intrigued.

 

[BierstiefelAndy]

Good post, that is very helpful. I am trying to put together a job search strategy and given how seemingly random finding a job can be and the degree of chance that comes into play, I want to "make my own luck" as much as possible. I'm not going to be one of those guys who is complaining about the job market but didn't actively search. If I wind up with no job or a bad job it is not going to be because I didn't put forth the effort. If I go down I'm going to go down swinging... hard.

With that said, it makes me want to take matters into my own hands rather than depend on someone else to make a call or depend on a practice that I'd like to work with just happening to call while I'm looking for a job or whatever. Although, I can see how this could be an annoyance and it would mean so much more coming from well respected faculty. Overall, I get the impression that cold calling is awkward and I'd rather not do it, however, I don't want to be "that guy who wasn't assertive enough" or "that guy who didn't try" during the job search.

I hear ya. The uncertainty of depending on other folks making calls on my behalf was unsettling for me too. Is there some kind of adviser figure you can turn to regarding jobs? The approach I used was to collect job ads and names of places, organize my priorities, and then discuss my goals with an adviser (this guy is a world reowned pathologist who is also a saint because he helps us peons find jobs).

I failed to mention in my earlier post that I did send out some feeler emails to places on my own too so I didn't entirely rely on others. I heard from some and not from others. I don't know if this is "statistically significant" as if the outcome of these applications would have been better would someone had called on my behalf.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. I started looking for jobs in June of 2008. I was told repeatedly that I was starting my job search way too early. I didn't listen though because my motivation stemmed from simply two words: exit strategy. I was itching to leave. So at least I can tell you too, you are doing a good thing by thinking of the job search now. It's never too early. Start now, be proactive, and kick some ass.

 

[Pathjob]

I hear ya. The uncertainty of depending on other folks making calls on my behalf was unsettling for me too. Is there some kind of adviser figure you can turn to regarding jobs? The approach I used was to collect job ads and names of places, organize my priorities, and then discuss my goals with an adviser (this guy is a world reowned pathologist who is also a saint because he helps us peons find jobs).

I failed to mention in my earlier post that I did send out some feeler emails to places on my own too so I didn't entirely rely on others. I heard from some and not from others. I don't know if this is "statistically significant" as if the outcome of these applications would have been better would someone had called on my behalf.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. I started looking for jobs in June of 2008. I was told repeatedly that I was starting my job search way too early. I didn't listen though because my motivation stemmed from simply two words: exit strategy. I was itching to leave. So at least I can tell you too, you are doing a good thing by thinking of the job search now. It's never too early. Start now, be proactive, and kick some ass.

There is no real set of rules any more. A few years ago, I searched for a job because of a departmental issue that threatened us all, which thankfully resolved itself. On more than a few occasions, people resented being called after being sent my cv by email in response to their ads; traditionally you are taught to wait two weeks and then call. It appeared I had violated a new custom--don't call us, we'll call you even when we advertise. The main thing is to develop a thick skin, or you will feel rotten for no good reason. Given this, there is no offense for cold calling in my view.

These days you can just email everyone anyways. A heck of a lot more time efficient. If they want to click you off, they surely won't remember who you were the next time you email them. What one would need would be a catchy subject line. Anyone think of one? How about:

"Great pair of eyes for your group."

 

[yaah]

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. I started looking for jobs in June of 2008. I was told repeatedly that I was starting my job search way too early. I didn't listen though because my motivation stemmed from simply two words: exit strategy. I was itching to leave. So at least I can tell you too, you are doing a good thing by thinking of the job search now. It's never too early. Start now, be proactive, and kick some ass.

I don't think that is too early - that's when I started. I was sort of pushed into starting by two different recruitment-type emails that were sent to gauge my interest, so I had to then inquire at other places I was also interested in. I did hear back from some that it was too early, but not from others. They can always tell you it's too early and to get back to them in a few months.

 

[2121115]

I failed to mention in my earlier post that I did send out some feeler emails to places on my own too so I didn't entirely rely on others. I heard from some and not from others.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. I started looking for jobs in June of 2008. I was told repeatedly that I was starting my job search way too early.

Thanks for the input. So did you just attach your CV and cover letter to an email? And were these "cold emails" or were they to advertised openings? Also, you began your job search 1 year before you needed to start working and were told it was too early? That seems like a good time to start looking to me.

BTW, I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread. Good stuff.

 

[BierstiefelAndy]

Thanks for the input. So did you just attach your CV and cover letter to an email? And were these "cold emails" or were they to advertised openings? Also, you began your job search 1 year before you needed to start working and were told it was too early? That seems like a good time to start looking to me.

BTW, I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread. Good stuff.

No cover letter. My "cover letter" was included in the email which consisted of a paragraph describing my background, my goals & interests, and why I was interested in the position. Then I attached my CV complete with references. Oh, and by the way, these correspondences were to advertised openings. My one "cold email" was to MD Anderson but that was after my friend sniffed out the situation for me and told his contact that he would be hearing from me shortly. There, I saw the job ad from the year before but it had expired. My friend told me that they hadn't filled the position which is why I decided to act on it.

 

[2121115]

One more follow up question. There is a advertised position in a city that I would like to live in - basically a rural place that would be unlikely to ever call my program with a job. I sent in my CV by email 4 weeks ago and haven't received any correspondence back. Should I follow up with a telephone call?

 

[yaah]

Can't hurt!