Cold feet about applying... anyone else?

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Ok, I just have to get this out there. I haven't seen any threads like this. But this is it.

I'm applying for the next cycle and I have total and utter and complete cold feet.

Like I don't even want to go anymore.

I keep thinking, "well it was a nice ride but it probably won't happen this year."

And then I find myself researching programs in totally unrelated disciplines, and employment statistics, job descriptions, and program requirements.... for HOURS. Instead of doing the damn SOP!!!!

WHAT IS THIS?????

This shouldn't be happening!!!

Not now!!!!

Does anyone else have those pre-app, sitting down to write statement of purpose blues????

I feel like I'm going insane!!!

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Take a deep breathe, relax, go take your mind off apps for a little bit.

...and the answer is YES!
 
My cold feet goes more like this: "Why am I even bothering? I won't get in anywhere. I'm just throwing all this money and time down the drain. I'll never be able to get into a program. I should just stop and go die in a hole somewhere."

:smuggrin:









:boom:
 
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Take a deep breathe, relax, go take your mind off apps for a little bit.

...and the answer is YES!

My cold feet goes more like this: "Why am I even bothering? I won't get in anywhere. I'm just throwing all this money and time down the drain. I'll never be able to get into a program. I should just stop and go die in a hole somewhere."

:smuggrin:

I had two stages of response this...
1. I feel ya', I'm on and off freaking out that I won't get in anywhere and should be making alternate plans or just applying to master's degree programs or something.

2. What you're describing sounds like what happened to me when I sat down to write my medical school SOP. I spent three months trying to answer the question "why do you want to be a doctor?" I think it's important to keep trying and not psych yourself out, but at the same time, if you're majorly questioning your decision and can't write about why you want to do it... maybe it's not actually what you want to do? When I was applying to medical school I also spent hours researching unrelated disciplines... when I realized I only had two sentences of my SOP and had been researching clinical psych programs for three hours, I took it as a sign.

Thank you all very much. Cold feet passed. It's a big step applying to grad but at the same time I think it's important to remember it's a long process either way and it doesn't have to happen today. :xf:
 
Thanks for the input. I actually have recently noticed that and it kind of worries me... It would be much easier for me to get into an awesome med school than it will be to get into PhD programs at this point. I occasionally freak out that in 15 years I'm going to be teaching a classroom full of half asleep undergrads and regret the day I told Stanford medical I wasn't interested (I didn't apply, the head of admissions just wanted to talk to me).

What in particular have you found to be turn off about the PhD route? Is it mostly job security and pay? I think my main qualm with medicine is the lifestyle (working for large bureaucracies for way too many hours under a lot of stress) and the way they approach mental illness. The doctors I've worked under have all been surprisingly bad at dealing with psych issues and feel that psychotropic meds are the answer 95% of the time. I just wasn't sure I could be in that environment for the rest of my life and not smack someone. I actually do love the preliminary work too... cell bio, anatomy, route memorization of thousands of terms-- I think it's kind of fun, I'm just not sure it's worthwhile.

I don't want to push you to join a counter-culture if you're unwilling, but the medical side of things actually needs more people like you who want a broader scope and want to innovate beyond the current '95% of the time' approaches.
 
Psychiatrists are not trained the way psychologists are. They have to learn about more than just psychiatric disorders thus psychologists end up with a more thorough knowledge of the subject area. I worked with residents at a top teaching hospital/med school and was horrified by how little they knew coming in. We would assess them together and they'd start out with "are you depressed or anxious" and then went on to ask what psychotropic meds they've been on. There was no assessment of severity of sxs; history of sxs; psychotherapy history, etc. I always had to go in and fill in the blanks.

It's just a very different way of thinking. Neither is good or bad necessarily. The field of clinical psychology makes me feel apathetic and/or angry at times but I've never hesitated in knowing it was the field for me. I know a lot of people assume all psychologists considered going the med school route but honestly it never crossed my mind.
 
I guess what's scary is the competitive nature of getting in AND the fact that going involves so much sacrifice.

I can totally see myself in 10 years (when about half my life will be over) finally being comfortable enough to relax but until then...

It will involve moving multiple times, squeezing, budgeting.... I look at my college friends on fb being able to afford going away for a weekend and it's like WOW. Starting to define themselves not necessarily by being rich but having the freedom and energy to be able to just do whatever they want for a weekend. I spend every weekend working or volunteering or taking classes to get into a psych program.... I'm not even in one!!!!! Hhahaha.....

I dunno... I guess psych is just an amazing topic... but my heart is totally going to be sunk this month until apps are over.

SORRY DOGGUMS! Didn't mean to hijack your topic, I am following it with interest. You are lucky you have both fields to choose from. :) :luck:
 
Thanks for the input. I actually have recently noticed that and it kind of worries me... It would be much easier for me to get into an awesome med school than it will be to get into PhD programs at this point. I occasionally freak out that in 15 years I'm going to be teaching a classroom full of half asleep undergrads and regret the day I told Stanford medical I wasn't interested (I didn't apply, the head of admissions just wanted to talk to me).

What in particular have you found to be turn off about the PhD route? Is it mostly job security and pay? I think my main qualm with medicine is the lifestyle (working for large bureaucracies for way too many hours under a lot of stress) and the way they approach mental illness. The doctors I've worked under have all been surprisingly bad at dealing with psych issues and feel that psychotropic meds are the answer 95% of the time. I just wasn't sure I could be in that environment for the rest of my life and not smack someone. I actually do love the preliminary work too... cell bio, anatomy, route memorization of thousands of terms-- I think it's kind of fun, I'm just not sure it's worthwhile.

I could go on at length about why I would have gone to med school if I could do it again, but I did just want to throw out there that the lifestyle stuff eventually evens out. (Not that grad school, early career therapist, or untenured prof have it so great anyway.) Psychiatrists in my major city are so in demand that by the time they are 40 they have booming cash only private practices. They don't even bother to deal with insurance companies because they don't have to and can still fill their caseloads. They only see patients between the hours on 9-5 on weekdays. If you want to do clinical work but not private practice, nearly all the local hospitals have openings. Good luck with that as a psychologist. Sounds like a good lifestyle to me!

Best,
Dr. E
 
I personally am not necessarily turned off per se about the PhD route--I like yourself am in the process of applying, although I am completing another professional degree (doctoral level, but not a PhD) now and it is definitely possible or even likely that I will simply stick with this career path instead of adding a clinical psych PhD--unless I get into one of my top few choices for schools. Even then I may end up scrapping the idea, regardless of the fact that I have already sent in all my apps and been thinking about the clinical PhD in addition to my current field for many years. But I think my situation is probably a fair amount different from yours--let's just say I have wandered through life quite a bit, and there are many additional incentives for me to start to really settle down. Among other things, not all of my motives for wanting to do a clinical program are what I would consider legit, even though it has been a long-term goal and interest of mine (e.g. doing it for the title and for further proving myself are factors for me, and probably aren't good reasons, although there are strong interest and career reasons as well).

Although I don't necessarily want an MD personally at this point, and I am not as impressed by the degree as most everyone else seems to be (probably partly because my parents are in medicine), I think if I legitimately had that as an option I would take it instead of the PhD. Unless, as I mentioned, the options were Yale psych v. an average medical school. But if you seriously have a shot at Stanford/Harvard/UPENN/Yale medical schools I think that is a very, very safe bet for you in terms of job security and many lucrative possibilities. On the other hand, if you can get into UPENN or Yale for psych I think those schools are going to give you options that many other clinical psych programs will not--i.e. you will be essentially guaranteed an academic teaching job at the university level if that is what you desire, and you will be in a position of leading the field. Really only those two schools come to mind as having that level of assurance in the clinical psych world (probably Harvard too, just because the name more than the actual quality of their program), but obviously there are still no guarantees. So your options would likely be very good at either a top medical school or a tip-top clinical psych program, and then I suppose I would simply go with the one I felt more passionate about.

The above notwithstanding, when it comes down to it I think you do need to do what you are interested in and not just chase money and prestige. However, making calculated value judgments based on likely options in MD v. psych PhD is wise in my opinion, even if not something that should at all be solely dispositive. If you can find a way to make a surer bet work for you in a way that (in the long term) can match your interests then I think that could be a wise decision.

Your situation is probably different from the vast majority of applicants in that if you meet your target schools in either field you should have a lot of options open to you. If I were you I would absolutely not settle for second best. You have extremely strong stats and research experience and many options available to you. I don't think you should attend anything less than a tip-top clinical psych program if you do go into psych. If you have top medical schools available to you, it just doesn't make sense to go to a second-best clinical program. Which is why I think throwing some medical school apps out there might be a good idea, just to see if you get some offers. I suppose this is easier said than done, because among other things you need to get recommenders to write for those programs, and in general (with both the programs and recommenders) you want to come off as focused and not unsure about your direction (even though it is natural to question this). So, one approach could be to wait and see if you get tip-top clinical programs this year and then apply to top med programs next year if not, but that would be pretty disruptive, so I think sending out maybe 2 or 3 applications to med school top-5 programs now might be ideal if you can finesse the letter requests and do your best to write convincing statements. That way you would have all your options on the table, and wouldn't need to delay another year.

All the above said, I do agree that psychiatry is pretty abysmal (re: just focusing on meds etc), and I understand that it is generally a very different path than doing a clinical PhD in psych. Also, I am a big advocate of following your heart in terms of vocation. It's just that I think taking economic and practical considerations into as much account as possible at the same time is also prudent.

In closing, sorry to OP--I'm actually the one who jacked this thread, but I hope some of my comments may have been useful.

Honestly, a psych PhD doesn't sound right for you at all. It's a long, hard process and it doesn't make sense to go through it unless you are committed. It doesn't sound like you are at all committed.

Also - UPenn and Yale are not the be all end all of clinical psych programs. While they have good names, especially in other areas, I wouldn't even say they are in the top 2 of producing the best clinical psychologists and there is absolutely no way that a person graduating from these schools is guaranteed an academic job. And Harvard was just recently APA approved so it has very little track record. I'd say do a ton more research before making any decisions. On top of all that, the "tip top" clinical program is so varied because the tip top school for studying substance abuse is different from depression research and so on. You just can't make these blanket statements about a phD program.
 
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To answer the OP's question:
I have cold feet every time I think of a new career...period. I was pre-med in college, didn't do spectacular, but probably good enough to get in SOMEWHERE. Then I thought about dentistry, chiro, and then finally clinical psych/research. This field is the only field that I didn't dump after a month of deciding it's my calling. I don't see it as a bad or uncommon thing. Applying to grad school is a HUGE decision, and if you get in, that's the next decade-ish of your life dedicated to slave labor work...without knowing if the next decade is any better. But I buckled down, wrote my essays, got my recs, and submitted most of my apps already. Just do it- if you get in, then worry about that decision. Right now, just worry about getting your apps in. What's helped me the most is knowing that this isn't the end all be all. If I don't get in, I can try again, or take the MCAT or LSAT, or work. Life is what you make of it, one application cycle won't ruin your life.
 
Sorry you didn't get into UPENN or Yale. ;) But I don't disagree that in terms of research interests there is a lot more than school name to take into account and that it is arguable which the best overall clinical psych PhD programs are (or that arguably there is no such thing since it depends on research areas etc).

In terms of commitment, the whole point was I am not committed now, but that obviously (or not obviously, apparently) doesn't mean that if I decide to go I could not fully commit at that point. Don't you have research to do?

I went to one of those schools for undergrad so no ;) is needed. I go to an arguably better school for grad school

IMO, you need to be committed heading into a program or you're wasting your time.

And just a hint, don't bring the pompous attitude into an interview because it's the quickest way to get a rejection ;)
 
But in terms of value maximization of a degree--which is what my previous post focused on--I think that these two schools are good examples within a field that generally offers very uncertain employment prospects. I didn't say that there are not a few other schools that are comparable in this regard (although I think you would be hard-pressed to say that there are clearly superior programs). Obviously there needs to be an interest match, but I already know there is one for that poster in regard to Yale.

I want to caution you a little about the idea that Yale PhD= good academic job for sure. Nothing is certain no matter where your degree is from. I have a non-psych friend with a Yale PhD. She was unable to get anything other than an instructor (i.e. non-tenured) position. After 4 years she gave up and now she has gone back to school for a wildly different type of degree. The academic job market cares about publications. Yale (or wherever) affiliation will not get publications written or accepted.

Best,
Dr. E
 
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