Columbia bashing...

[rager1]

What's with the Columbia bashing? Many of the people who bash do so with an almost religious zeal...One big point of irritation cited by those making negative comments is the ostensibly excessive excitement of the people that want to go there. Others cite the cost of the school and imply that Columbia is not worth the money. Why apply that complaint only to Columbia? Don't the other NY schools cost roughly the same?

If you're NOT a Columbia fan (either as a student or applicant), I'd like to hear why. If you are a Columbia fan but aren't yet a student there, why are you so excited about the school?

It just seems like there're are few centrist opinions with regards to this school. Just enthusiasts and detractors. What gives?

--Rager

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[crazy250]

they're too number oriented in admissions decision.

 

[pigpen]

they have the finest faculty of any institution i've visited

 

[Mr. Rosewater]

i didn't apply just b/c i really don't like the area, and the student housing is really small. also, they're not on AMCAS which is a total buzzkill. if they were i'd prolly have applied. overall though, columbia's a really great school. no reason to bash it.

 

[jhk43]

great school.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Whoa Whoa, PnS doesn't use AMCAS?

 

[rager1]

Whoa Whoa, PnS doesn't use AMCAS?

It uses AMCAS beginning this coming application cycle.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Interesting....we've got the same game going on in the pre-dental forum

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

Columbia P&S is awesome. Why people would bash it is beyond me. If they're going to bash it because of the cost, then you would also have to bash virtually EVERY private medical school in the country.

 

[CalBeE]

Not so fast about this. I believe that you haven't even applied yet right? No offense, but it's hard to tell what a school really is until you're a med student there. I did talk to a few people who dislike Columbia, and I do believe some of them have legitimate reasons.

For eg: Long anatomy/dissection sessions, long lecture hours, "interesting" admission policy, school administration

 

[rager1]

Not so fast about this. I believe that you haven't even applied yet right? No offense, but it's hard to tell what a school really is until you're a med student there. I did talk to a few people who dislike Columbia, and I do believe some of them have legitimate reasons.

For eg: Long anatomy/dissection sessions, long lecture hours, "interesting" admission policy, school administration

I agree CalBeE.
There is something to be said for listening to critical naysayers as much as those posters effusing praise. What caught me off-guard and prompted me to start this thread about Columbia is the vehemence that people display in their posts. Loving and hating Columbia appear to the be the only two options, which struck me as a cause for worry. The recurring complaint (and my main concern) is that Columbia is an old-guard institution: resistant to change with an administration skilled in rhetoric but weak in following up on its promises to act on feedback (of which, I hear there is a great deal). For those who have seen Dead Poet's Society, the appropriate analogy likens Columbia's academic atmosphere and curriculum to the attitude and work of the older faculty in that film's fictional prep school: A stifling rite of passage that has withstood the test of time. Some have said that in the interests of appearing fair and open-minded, superficial measures are taken at Columbia to listen to the complaints of students in the manner a patient parent provides time for a child's tantrum to subside. The tradition of the old system, which may or may not have worked at one time (or which never got in the way of the success of its students), is now so hallowed and revered that suggesting reasonable change is an affront to those with an unreasonable faith in its merits.

I'm hoping to figure out to what extent all of this is true, and the extent to which Columbia met the expectations of excited acceptees other than those who would be happy anywhere.

--Rager

 

[missbonnie]

Why I wanna go/like P&S.

I only need to move 20 blocks .
It's just home to me - as I went to Barnard for ugrad, it'll be like going back a to place I know. This is a large part of it.
It's in NYC - 99.9% of my closest friends are here and my family is just over the bridge in NJ.
Great school, etc.
Know alot of ppl who've gone here or go to the other health professional schools at Columbia.

 

[thewebthsp]

Hrm... I think Columbia is just a different med school...from say Cornell, UPenn, Yale, Hopkins,...blah blah....once you get to the top echelon no school is really "better," just different. I'm surprised there's no thread on Harvard bashing . Good thing I didn't apply there, huh?

For some it will be sugar, while for others it will be bile. For most it'll probably be a bit of both.

Med school will be tons of studying, not so much free time, and plus it's your last phase of "growing up" before pretty much most people settle down, get married, start looking for a house, and have little cute, and not so cute babies. It will also be a great time in your professional life, and if you're so lucky as to go to Columbia, you'll have a bazillion options open to you. No one said freedom means happiness; you have to do that yourself.

 

[exmike]

i havent really noticed columbia bashing.. now WUSTL bashing, that I see a lot on these boards.

 

[CalBeE]

In Columbia-related threads, you'll see people either loving it so much or hating it a lot...sorta remind me of N'Sync and Britney Spears from a few years back.

 

[lyragrl]

Seriously, though, what is IndianBoy's problem? I'm not sure why he detests Columbia so much and I suppose I shouldn't care, but his posts are so malignant.

 

[exmike]

Seriously, though, what is IndianBoy's problem? I'm not sure why he detests Columbia so much and I suppose I shouldn't care, but his posts are so malignant.

who is indianboy?

 

[lyragrl]

who is indianboy?

A Cornell student who likes to post hostile messages about P&S.

 

[exmike]

A Cornell student who likes to post hostile messages about P&S.

a pns reject probably.

 

[gimpMD]

Why I wanna go/like P&S.

I only need to move 20 blocks .
It's just home to me - as I went to Barnard for ugrad, it'll be like going back a to place I know. This is a large part of it.
It's in NYC - 99.9% of my closest friends are here and my family is just over the bridge in NJ.
Great school, etc.
Know alot of ppl who've gone here or go to the other health professional schools at Columbia.

dont take this the wrong way...but how the hell did miss bonnie get into PnS? is she super hot? i mean, i understand that she volunteered for soup kitchens n stuff, but how does the adcom expect a 3.4 underachiever to handle the rigors of columbia med? Is this a reasonable argument? If i were a 3.4, i'd be intimidated to attend a top 10. Sorry bonnie, dont take this the wrong way.

 

[exmike]

dont take this the wrong way...but how the hell did miss bonnie get into PnS? is she super hot? how is a 3.4 expected to handle the rigors of columbia med

I dont know what bonnie looks like but i'ms ure she can handle PnS. I'm a firm believer that your undergrad GPA is only a rough predictor of your aptitude for medical school. She seems bright and intelligent, im sure she'll excel there. Besides, she probably has a lot of life experiences that those straight out of undergrad 3.99 students will never have.

 

[gimpMD]

I dont know what bonnie looks like but i'ms ure she can handle PnS. I'm a firm believer that your undergrad GPA is only a rough predictor of your aptitude for medical school. She seems bright and intelligent, im sure she'll excel there. Besides, she probably has a lot of life experiences that those straight out of undergrad 3.99 students will never have.

travelling around the world, experiencing different foods, unemployment, etc is one thing. isn't taking pharmacology with a bunch of harvard summa cum laudes a different beast?

 

[SarahGM]

dont take this the wrong way...but how the hell did miss bonnie get into PnS? is she super hot? i mean, i understand that she volunteered for soup kitchens n stuff, but how does the adcom expect a 3.4 underachiever to handle the rigors of columbia med? Is this a reasonable argument? If i were a 3.4, i'd be intimidated to attend a top 10. Sorry bonnie, dont take this the wrong way.

MissBonnie, I'm assuming that you're secure in your achievements, but I just wanted to note that you should probably not worry about this flamebait.

 

[Eraserhead]

travelling around the world, experiencing different foods, unemployment, etc is one thing. isn't taking pharmacology with a bunch of harvard summa cum laudes a different beast?

Get lost you ****ing idiot.

 

[gimpMD]

MissBonnie, I'm assuming that you're secure in your achievements, but I just wanted to note that you should probably not worry about this flamebait.

No flaming. genuine concerns. I'm sure she'll make a great primary doctor or something. Ugh, i guess thats 'flamebait' too

 

[SillyRabbit]

Bonnie got in with a 3.4 because Columbia knows the academic rigors of Barnard. Many of the Barnard science classes are even a bit more difficult than Columbia undergrad science classes. It is NO joke and the competition is quite fierce.

 

[lyragrl]

dont take this the wrong way...but how the hell did miss bonnie get into PnS? is she super hot? i mean, i understand that she volunteered for soup kitchens n stuff, but how does the adcom expect a 3.4 underachiever to handle the rigors of columbia med? Is this a reasonable argument? If i were a 3.4, i'd be intimidated to attend a top 10. Sorry bonnie, dont take this the wrong way.

Troll.

 

[SarahGM]

No flaming. genuine concerns. I'm sure she'll make a great primary doctor or something. Ugh, i guess thats 'flamebait' too

This is curious... why would a 3.4 at Barnard be cause for concern?

 

[exmike]

travelling around the world, experiencing different foods, unemployment, etc is one thing. isn't taking pharmacology with a bunch of harvard summa cum laudes a different beast?

Are you in medical school? If you are you'd know that medical school learning is a whole different beast compared to premed courses and as a result I think people with a good memorization skills and work ethic do very well in medical school. I've found the medical school courses I took at Georgetown to be far more straightfoward than any undergrad class I ever took. The only difference is the sheer volume of info that med schools fork on you.

In any case, I dont think anyone here is qualified to judge the aptitude of a given applicant for success at a given school. I just have a strong feeling that msbonnie WONT be at the bottom of her class at PnS.

 

[BassDominator]

I have had really bad experiences on interviews at Columbia, both for med school and residency. I know this isn't necessarily representative, but all 4 interviewers I met were arrogant and condescending. I'm sure it's a great place.... but they weren't so friendly to me.

 

[gimpMD]

Ok, i must be a naive bast@rd. Theres no doubt that Missbonnie will thrive at columbia.

 

[gimpMD]

Bonnie got in with a 3.4 because Columbia knows the academic rigors of Barnard. Many of the Barnard science classes are even a bit more difficult than Columbia undergrad science classes. It is NO joke and the competition is quite fierce.

You didnt just go there....

 

[SillyRabbit]

Absolutely did.

 

[missbonnie]

dont take this the wrong way...but how the hell did miss bonnie get into PnS? is she super hot? i mean, i understand that she volunteered for soup kitchens n stuff, but how does the adcom expect a 3.4 underachiever to handle the rigors of columbia med? Is this a reasonable argument? If i were a 3.4, i'd be intimidated to attend a top 10. Sorry bonnie, dont take this the wrong way.

it's ok. the 3.4 obviously doesn't show the big picture. I got low grades (< 2.9) my first yr when I took classes like elementary swedish (not kidding), if you see my actual transcript the rest of the semesters are a strong 3.7ish. I got As in the classes like gen chem, organic chem, advanced bio courses , biochem, physics .. i.e. in the classes that count. i think it's mostly my post grad experiences that got me in. I didn't volunteer in the soup kitchen, I did some major fundraising for the Komen foundation (> $10,000) and got my former company to participate in it with me, helped to start 2 non profits, and have my own company.

 

[Eraserhead]

it's ok. the 3.4 obviously doesn't show the big picture. I got low grades (< 2.9) my first yr where I took classes like elementary swedish (not kidding), if you see my actual transcript the rest of the semesters are a strong 3.7ish. I got As in the classes like gen chem, organic chem, advanced bio courses , biochem, physics .. i.e. in the classes that count. i think it's mostly my post grad experiences that got me in. I didn't volunteer in the soup kitchen, I did some major fundraising for the Komen foundation (> $10,000) and got my former company to participate in it with me, helped to start 2 non profits, and have my own company.

Damn girl!

MissBonnie kicks ass.

 

[Rendar5]

many Barnard science classes are a bit easier than their Columbia counterparts from my experience taking a few. But their pre-med chemistry labs are a lot harder and more anal-retentive than the Columbia ones. I say this as a Columbia chem TA and chem major who tutored my ex-gf through Barnard labs.

A 3.4 at Barnard is definitely a good GPA.

Now if you look at this from a P&S perspective, their average GPA is a 3.75, I think? I'm sure there are plenty of 4.0's there. Which means I'm sure there are plenty of 3.4's and 3.5's. Those thing are averages for a reason. MCAT scores? average is 35 or so at Columbia. I know for a fact that there are plenty of 39's and 40's, especially in people applying to MD/PhD (from casual conversations with one of the PI's who helps select students for this). That means that there are plenty of 29s and 30s, I'm sure.

 

[jlee9531]

dont take this the wrong way...but how the hell did miss bonnie get into PnS? is she super hot? i mean, i understand that she volunteered for soup kitchens n stuff, but how does the adcom expect a 3.4 underachiever to handle the rigors of columbia med? Is this a reasonable argument? If i were a 3.4, i'd be intimidated to attend a top 10. Sorry bonnie, dont take this the wrong way.

im sorry but you are an idiot.
soup kitchens n stuff?
my bad i guess that "stuff" really doesnt show what kind of person she is...
i guess a 3.4 means she failed all of her classes in college?
3.3 is a B+ man...she is doing better than B+ work...which is pretty good in my opinion.
intimidated?? then you are really insecure with yourself as an applicant if you feel that only GPA can predict the success you will have at med school.
your assumptions based on only pieces of evidence is astounding?
so tell me...who is ALLOWED to attend a top 10 medical school?
enlighten me.

must we remind you time and time again that an ugrad gpa is not the best predictor of success in med school? must we tell you that its the overall application that is important?
why oh why do people think people with "lower" gpas are incompetent...
maybe she had other things rather than school to think about...

BUT DESPITE MY anger at your post...you were nice enough to apologize to her. forgive me with my post gimpmd...but i needed to vent cause i hate it how people just see a gpa and automatically go...whoa you shouldnt be a doctor.

 

[gimpMD]

it's ok. the 3.4 obviously doesn't show the big picture. I got low grades (< 2.9) my first yr when I took classes like elementary swedish (not kidding), if you see my actual transcript the rest of the semesters are a strong 3.7ish. I got As in the classes like gen chem, organic chem, advanced bio courses , biochem, physics .. i.e. in the classes that count. i think it's mostly my post grad experiences that got me in. I didn't volunteer in the soup kitchen, I did some major fundraising for the Komen foundation (> $10,000) and got my former company to participate in it with me, helped to start 2 non profits, and have my own company.

hey ms.bonnie. sorry if my post seemed lame - the sdn gestapo quickly reigned me in.

anyways, ur record speaks for itself. 3.7+ clearly indicates ur ability as well as the other stuff. whats ur company involved w/?

 

[thewebthsp]

This is _exactly_ why GPAs are overrated tools of selection. Good for Columbia's adcom for at least trying to look at the experiences and achievements and not solely at a number. I said this before -- a super high GPA is fine and dandy but acceptance should not hinge on this. Obviously <B- average shows academic problems, but it's pretty clear this isn't what's going on.

Columbia also rejected some great people for lower than average GPA, so they're not perfect in the above regard.

ALL med schools are guilty of GPA worship. Most top 25 undergrad institutions have horribly inflated grades (ok some like Hopkins and Chicago are just badly inflated), and people going for professional schools often have to sacrifice learning for an A. Yuck.

 

[TheFlash]

dont take this the wrong way...but how the hell did miss bonnie get into PnS? is she super hot? i mean, i understand that she volunteered for soup kitchens n stuff, but how does the adcom expect a 3.4 underachiever to handle the rigors of columbia med? Is this a reasonable argument? If i were a 3.4, i'd be intimidated to attend a top 10. Sorry bonnie, dont take this the wrong way.

Life experiences count for a lot, and since when is a 3.4 "underachieving?" Get your head out of your arse and give respect where it's due. If you think numbers are the end all and be all of making a great doctor, please stay away from my friends and family if/when you get an MD.

 

[gimpMD]

im sorry but you are an idiot.
soup kitchens n stuff?
my bad i guess that "stuff" really doesnt show what kind of person she is...
i guess a 3.4 means she failed all of her classes in college?
3.3 is a B+ man...she is doing better than B+ work...which is pretty good in my opinion.
intimidated?? then you are really insecure with yourself as an applicant if you feel that only GPA can predict the success you will have at med school.
your assumptions based on only pieces of evidence is astounding?
so tell me...who is ALLOWED to attend a top 10 medical school?
enlighten me.

must we remind you time and time again that an ugrad gpa is not the best predictor of success in med school? must we tell you that its the overall application that is important?
why oh why do people think people with "lower" gpas are incompetent...
maybe she had other things rather than school to think about...

BUT DESPITE MY anger at your post...you were nice enough to apologize to her. forgive me with my post gimpmd...but i needed to vent cause i hate it how people just see a gpa and automatically go...whoa you shouldnt be a doctor.

hey, i wasnt saying that she shouldnt be a doctor. I was wondering outloud how she got into a top 10 despite a 3.4. Dont tell me you didnt think the same thing. she turned herself into a strong applicant despite her freshman mistakes. There was no room for error after that, and she succeded. she explained herself even though she didnt have to, now it makes sense. best wishes bonnie.

Ya'll are way too sensitive.

 

[missbonnie]

oh, did i fail to mention i slept my way into Columbia..

 

[gimpMD]

Life experiences count for a lot, and since when is a 3.4 "underachieving?" Get your head out of your arse and give respect where it's due. If you think numbers are the end all and be all of making a great doctor, please stay away from my friends and family if/when you get an MD.

Chill out, flamer. You'd be an fool to not flinch at a GPA that is 2 standard deviations away from the average.

Oh by the way, I personally think theres minimal correlation btw numbers and a great doctor. I do understand that med school admissions is PRIMARILY a numbers game, of course, with exceptions. Dont hate the messenger.

 

[jlee9531]

hey, i wasnt saying that she shouldnt be a doctor. I was wondering outloud how she got into a top 10 despite a 3.4. Dont tell me you didnt think the same thing. she turned herself into a strong applicant despite her freshman mistakes. There was no room for error after that, and she succeded. she explained herself even though she didnt have to, now it makes sense. best wishes bonnie.

Ya'll are way too sensitive.

no i didnt think the same thing...because i am a similar type of applicant as well...with a "lower" gpa. i feel confident enough i can do extremely well anywhere i go...whether thats a top school or an unknown one.

 

[avicoo]

oh, did i fail to mention i slept my way into Columbia..

All the previously mentioned great qualities and ....

You rule!!!

 

[exmike]

oh, did i fail to mention i slept my way into Columbia..

.

 

[jlee9531]

Chill out, flamer. You'd be an fool to not flinch at a GPA that is 2 standard deviations away from the average.

Oh by the way, I personally think theres minimal correlation btw numbers and a great doctor. I do understand that med school admissions is PRIMARILY a numbers game, of course, with exceptions. Dont hate the messenger.

i better tell the schools that accepted me to take back my acceptances since my gpa is lower than almost every single allopathic medical school in the country.

id be a fool to think that anyone with high numbers deserves to get into a top school as well.

 

[lyragrl]

Jlee isn't sensitive. He just has a soul.

Gimp, you deserved to get flamed bigtime for your original post and your followup. In case you didn't notice, we don't second guess the acceptances of our fellow SDNers. Instead, we support them and cheer them on.

By the way, MissBonnie, I, too, slept my way into Columbia.

 

[Eraserhead]

oh, did i fail to mention i slept my way into Columbia..

I blew my way into UCSD. My mouth is sore.

 

[exmike]

I blew my way into UCSD. My mouth is sore.

Thats why you're only 19% pure