Columbia dermatology professor earns over $4 million/year

[armybound]

Derm is apparently the way to go...

http://chronicle.com/weekly/v55/i25/25a00101.htm#compensation

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...columbia_dermatology_professor_tops_nonp.html

He's the real big man on campus.

Dr. David Silvers, a Columbia University professor of dermatology, earns more than $4.8 million a year, putting him at the top of a list of highest-paid employees of nonprofits nationwide.

"Clearly, this is way outside of the normal range," said Ken Berger, president of Charity Navigator, an organization that evaluates charities, which released the report. "I think it's a real mindblower for some people."

Silvers, 65, a skin cancer specialist who heads the dermatopathology lab at Columbia's Medical Center, lives a life befitting a multimillionare.

He owns a $1.3 million Tribeca apartment, a Park Ave. home and a $1 million pad in Southampton, records show.

Silvers is likely taking in more than $5 million a year.

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[TupacalipseT96]

You mean dermpath is the way to go. Which is fact if you are a big name and can pull lots of consults from the area. This is the way to simultaneously see big money AND be in academic medicine. Best of both worlds. Not a bad gig, if you ask me.

 

[copingmethods]

Wow...I think the highest University of California professor only 🙂laugh🙂 makes 1.6 million or so.

 

[starfishprime]

In related news: Columbia Dermatology professor is reason why mean dermatologist salaries are meaningless.

 

[Lokhtar]

That's so messed up, and you have post-docs earning $35k. Good for him though. It's the system that's broken, which allows him to earn $5million where the average FP can barely keep his practice afloat.

 

[strongboy2005]

That's so messed up, and you have post-docs earning $35k. Good for him though. It's the system that's broken, which allows him to earn $5million where the average FP can barely keep his practice afloat.

Why so negative?

I see stories like this and think "God bless America"

Where else in the world can you aspire and hope to have such a high quality life?

 

[Black Surgeon]

Hey it seems to me like you're missing the big picture. I see two reproductive endo and infertility Ob/GYNs on that top 10 list (James A. Grifo and Zev Rosenwaks) and only one Derm. If you ask me, the reproductive guys are making the big bucks.

 

[Bradstein]

1. Straw-man arguments are fun, easy, and you can too!
2. It's indicative of how the health care insurance in the United States is willing to pay virtually anything for specialized care, but continues to drive primary care reimbursements down, driving physicians away from it and into specialty fields perpetuating the situation and causing a positive feedback loop

 

[TupacalipseT96]

That's so messed up, and you have post-docs earning $35k. Good for him though. It's the system that's broken, which allows him to earn $5million where the average FP can barely keep his practice afloat.

He makes that much because he is very good at what he does and he works his ass off. Most dermpaths don't come near this, but he made it. He deserves every penny of that, imo.

Medicine is one of the few fields where being better/the-best at something does not always translate into making more money than the doctor who just goes through the motions. I celebrate the few instances where being exceptionally good at something is rewarded accordingly.

 

[Lokhtar]

Why so negative?

I see stories like this and think "God bless America"

Where else in the world can you aspire and hope to have such a high quality life?

A lot of places actually. In any case, doctors are shooting their own profession in the foot. Watch DNPs in ten years.

There is zero reason for anyone to do primary care anymore, even though every measurable metric says its primary care which correlates most with having a healthy population.

Healthcare is not a market like other markets. It does not follow the same rules of economics, for a variety of reasons that economists have listed over the years.

1. Straw-man arguments are fun, easy, and you can too!
2. It's indicative of how the health care insurance in the United States is willing to pay virtually anything for specialized care, but continues to drive primary care reimbursements down, driving physicians away from it and into specialty fields perpetuating the situation and causing a positive feedback loop

Yup.

 

[Lokhtar]

He makes that much because he is very good at what he does and he works his ass off.

He makes that much only because insurance companies are willing to pay for procedures but no one wants to pay a doctor to sit with a patient for 30 minutes and make a much bigger impact than a two minute procedure. Or pay IM doctors to sit and spend time doing differentials to identify a disease. To make money, you have to become a technician at various procedures.

 

[shindotp]

A lot of places actually. In any case, doctors are shooting their own profession in the foot. Watch DNPs in ten years.

There is zero reason for anyone to do primary care anymore, even though every measurable metric says its primary care which correlates most with having a healthy population.

Healthcare is not a market like other markets. It does not follow the same rules of economics, for a variety of reasons that economists have listed over the years.




Yup.

I actually agree that healthcare is not a market like other markets and currently is quite f***ed up. Kind of the reason I want to pursue a BA in Economics and an MD/MBA so that I can be in a position to make the changes to improve healthcare.

 

[Bacchus]

My friend was reading in a newspaper (forget the name) that the Dean of Penn Med makes ~3 mill a year. True? IDK.

 

[starfishprime]

I actually agree that healthcare is not a market like other markets and currently is quite f***ed up. Kind of the reason I want to pursue a BA in Economics and an MD/MBA so that I can be in a position to make the changes to improve healthcare.

Of course healthcare is a market. It's a market now and it was a market 60 years ago when country doctors took care of patients in exchange for house painting and chickens.

The difference - back then people had pride and self-respect. They knew that a man should pay his debts and not expect medicaid to pick up the tab. They knew that a man shouldn't sue an innocent doctor as a way to make a quick fortune. They also had the common decency to die with dignity at home instead of spending 8 months lying brain-dead in ICU on the taxpayer's dime.

Hot damn am I going to be a great physician/surgeon general/president.

 

[JaggerPlate]

dermpath is amazing right now. Long Dong broke it down in the dermatology forum ... if you're looking for the great money/easy lifestyle ... it's the way to go.

 

[Lokhtar]

Of course healthcare is a market. It's a market now and it was a market 60 years ago when country doctors took care of patients in exchange for house painting and chickens.

60 years ago, the care wasn't as expensive. You didn't have $300,000 treatments.

And its not a market because it's not filled with rational players. And its not a commodity that you can really choose to walk away from. If you get a heart attack, you kind of need the care, and you can't go shopping for the best price. It doesn't work.

 

[TupacalipseT96]

He makes that much only because insurance companies are willing to pay for procedures

I'm sure he makes most his money running his consulting group, reading dermpath slides that others could not interpret with confidence. So he is being paid for being the best at what he does, just like that big name dermpath at UCSF... not necessarly for pumping out procedures like PP docs.

Though in general I agree with you. There should be more incentive to go into FP. But not by bringing others down.

 

[starfishprime]

60 years ago, the care wasn't as expensive. You didn't have $300,000 treatments.

Let us not confuse the cause with the effect.

 

[shindotp]

Of course healthcare is a market. It's a market now and it was a market 60 years ago when country doctors took care of patients in exchange for house painting and chickens.

The difference - back then people had pride and self-respect. They knew that a man should pay his debts and not expect medicaid to pick up the tab. They knew that a man shouldn't sue an innocent doctor as a way to make a quick fortune. They also had the common decency to die with dignity at home instead of spending 8 months lying brain-dead in ICU on the taxpayer's dime.

Hot damn am I going to be a great physician/surgeon general/president.

Obviously healthcare is a market. Reread my statement until it makes sense to you.

 

[starfishprime]

Reread my statement until it makes sense to you.

Rereading is for chumps.

 

[BlueElmo]

$5 million a year? You guys know that a franchise-tagged running back in NFL earns "only" $6.6 million. Gosh.

 

[Long Dong]

What the hell are you guys arguing about? Get off SDN and start studying for the boards cause you all want to become dermatologist and do a fellowship in dermpath now. Remeber it's derm or bust like a pimple trying.😀

 

[riceman04]

That's so messed up, and you have post-docs earning $35k. Good for him though. It's the system that's broken, which allows him to earn $5million where the average FP can barely keep his practice afloat.

yeah...like my pops

The Dean at Penn Med is on that list as well

 

[BlueElmo]

President of the United States earns about $400,000 a year to lead a nation of 300 million people.
Our dermatologist isn't doing so shabby in comparison, I guess.🙂

 

[link2swim06]

60 years ago, the care wasn't as expensive. You didn't have $300,000 treatments.

And its not a market because it's not filled with rational players. And its not a commodity that you can really choose to walk away from. If you get a heart attack, you kind of need the care, and you can't go shopping for the best price. It doesn't work.

Are you trying to imply that a market is filled with rational players because psychology show us that is almost never the case.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
"Clearly, this is way outside of the normal range," ...

I think this is the sentence you guys need to be focusing on. In every specialty, there will be a couple of people who gain national recognition and earn way way way above what everybody else is earning in the field. But you will not be this person. Your odds are better at winning the lottery. And much better at being struck by a meteor, by lightning, or dying a horrible death in a fire. So I wouldn't count your money just yet. Buying a lot of life insurance is higher yield.

 

[Law2Doc]

President of the United States earns about $400,000 a year to lead a nation of 300 million people.
Our dermatologist isn't doing so shabby in comparison, I guess.🙂

It's really $400k plus several million in benefits. He doesn't pay for housing, food, transportation, travel, security... pretty much anything he and his immediate family wants/needs over the next 4-8 years is comped. And then he can earn a ton on the lecture circuit, consultant, book writing paths. It's a very lucrative job.

 

[riceman04]

My friend was reading in a newspaper (forget the name) that the Dean of Penn Med makes ~3 mill a year. True? IDK.

yep...it is true!

 

[armybound]

I think this is the sentence you guys need to be focusing on. In every specialty, there will be a couple of people who gain national recognition and earn way way way above what everybody else is earning in the field. But you will not be this person. Your odds are better at winning the lottery. And much better at being struck by a meteor, by lightning, or dying a horrible death in a fire. So I wouldn't count your money just yet. Buying a lot of life insurance is higher yield.

The (until recently) leading colorectal surgeon in the nation was only making $1.4 million/year. What makes a dermpath professor so special that he can pull in over 3x as much?

 

[Lokhtar]

Are you trying to imply that a market is filled with rational players because psychology show us that is almost never the case.

No, I am implying that healthcare is not like a commodity like most other commodities, and does not operate by the same rules. You can't go shopping for the best price if you get shot.

 

[Long Dong]

The (until recently) leading colorectal surgeon in the nation was only making $1.4 million/year. What makes a dermpath professor so special that he can pull in over 3x as much?

It takes ~ 5 seconds to read/dictate a slide billing about $40 a case. If you're famous people from all over sending you tons of cases to read. I've been told that dermpath is the most $/time out of all fields in medicine.

Say you read 200 slides a day 2 minutes each, at ~$40/slide, 4 days a week, for 48 weeks a year (one month vacation), thats 1.5 million a year gross, minus 30% overhead, that's still 900K a year working 4 days a week. Imagine working more then 4 days/week and reading slides quicker.

 

[Lokhtar]

It takes ~ 5 seconds to read/dictate a slide billing about $40 a case. If you're famous people from all over sending to tons of cases to read. I've been told that dermpath is the most $/time out of all fields in medicine.

See, that's my issue. Not that people make a lot of money, but how much does FP get for spending time with a patient without doing a procedure?

 

[BlueElmo]

It's really $400k plus several million in benefits. He doesn't pay for housing, food, transportation, travel, security... pretty much anything he and his immediate family wants/needs over the next 4-8 years is comped. And then he can earn a ton on the lecture circuit, consultant, book writing paths. It's a very lucrative job.

Still less than our dematologist.

 

[copingmethods]

Still less than our dematologist.

I doubt it. How much would it cost that guy to have a private jet like Air Force One, hundreds of bodyguards, bulletproof limousines, and a giant mansion? And keep in mind, the president gets $400k/year, but doesn't have to spend it on anything. Then after their term of office, they get a nice pension, for only working 4 to 8 years. 😉

 

[as7]

It takes ~ 5 seconds to read/dictate a slide billing about $40 a case. If you're famous people from all over sending you tons of cases to read. I've been told that dermpath is the most $/time out of all fields in medicine.

Say you read 200 slides a day 2 minutes each, at ~$40/slide, 4 days a week, for 48 weeks a year (one month vacation), thats 1.5 million a year gross, minus 30% overhead, that's still 900K a year working 4 days a week. Imagine working more then 4 days/week and reading slides quicker.

not to mention how fun that sounds...

 

[number]

I think this is the sentence you guys need to be focusing on. In every specialty, there will be a couple of people who gain national recognition and earn way way way above what everybody else is earning in the field. But you will not be this person. Your odds are better at winning the lottery. And much better at being struck by a meteor, by lightning, or dying a horrible death in a fire. So I wouldn't count your money just yet. Buying a lot of life insurance is higher yield.

The difference is that being one of the best is not random. It takes hard work and the aptitude. Some of us do not have what it takes, but some do. Why encourage everyone to be average and suggest that anymore is improbable?

What do you wish to accomplish with these posts? Why not encourage students to work to be the best, or at least the best they can be, rather than to submit to mediocrity? Half of us are above average in aptitude. The most talented 1% should be more concerned with the lifestyle of the most talented 1%, rather than the average.

We are not dumb enough that we need to be constantly discouraged. Sure, maybe it is best to tell the special-ed kid in high school that his dream of being a doctor is unrealistic, but most all med students have the intelligence to realize where they stand. The bottom of the class does not plan on going into derm or rad onc, but some of the top students do. This is how it should be.

 

[BlueElmo]

I doubt it. How much would it cost that guy to have a private jet like Air Force One, hundreds of bodyguards, bulletproof limousines, and a giant mansion? And keep in mind, the president gets $400k/year, but doesn't have to spend it on anything. Then after their term of office, they get a nice pension, for only working 4 to 8 years. 😉

Bodily comforts. But I doubt there is a more stressful job in the world.
Try leading United States of America, especially in these times.

 

[copingmethods]

Bodily comforts. But I doubt there is a more stressful job in the world.
Try leading United States of America, especially in these times.

Definitely agree w/ you there.

 

[Lokhtar]

Bodily comforts. But I doubt there is a more stressful job in the world.
Try leading United States of America, especially in these times.

Look at the before and after pictures of every President. It ages you 12 years in four, 20 in 8.

Bush 2000/2008:

 

[135892]

That's so messed up, and you have post-docs earning $35k. Good for him though. It's the system that's broken, which allows him to earn $5million where the average FP can barely keep his practice afloat.

I'm assuming you're a fan of this ******* reporter...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xokthY5zuPU#[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Lokhtar]

Nope, not at all. I'm sure he makes a lot of money for the university. Therein lies the problem. The reimbursement for procedures vs. what an FP/General internist does is out of whack, which if you bothered to read my posts, is what I said.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

I still want to do primary care for undeserved community and poverty stricken countries, anyone want to join?

 

[BlueElmo]

I still want to do primary care for undeserved community and poverty stricken countries, anyone want to join?

It sounds so noble! You're like a knight in a shining armor.

But count me out.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

It sounds so noble! You're like a knight in a shining armor.

But count me out.

I think I can convince you if given the chance 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

...
What do you wish to accomplish with these posts? Why not encourage students to work to be the best, or at least the best they can be, rather than to submit to mediocrity? Half of us are above average in aptitude. The most talented 1% should be more concerned with the lifestyle of the most talented 1%, rather than the average....

Well, you have to look at it in context. This thread puts up a dermatologist who earns $4 million a year as an example of a reachable target. It isn't.
As for half of you being above average, that's not really true if we are measuring average against allopathic med students. A lot of folks who read SDN don't apply to med school. Then of those who do, half of all premeds who apply get into a US allo med school. And then half of those people will end up in the top half of your class. And of the half that is in the top half of the class, maybe 10% have a realistic shot at derm. And then of those, only 3-5 nationally will gain the reputation to bring in 4.8 million. So I can say with a lot of confidence that it isn't going to be anybody reading this post, and be right 99.9+% of the time. I'm willing to run with those odds. If one of you proves me wrong, fantastic -- I'm proud of you. Kudos. High fives all around.

But anyway, my point is not to put people down generally, but instead to put people down who see big dollar signs and say -- that's going to be me. Because (a) that's a pretty sad motivation and unlikely to take you to the upper echelon of medicine, and (b) it's a moving target -- people who got in in a different generation have much better opportunities than those coming out now, with greater debt burden and other hindrances. So I say don't waste your time with pipe dreams of being a multi-millionaire in medicine. You likely won't be, and it's not about that anyhow. Go into medicine with the goal of being a good physician, and to find an area of specialty that you enjoy, and don't hate getting up and going to each morning. That's my definition of success.
Show me someone going into medicine mainly to be a millionaire, and I will show you a future disgruntled resident who is going to be posting hellish stories of how their life sux in a few years, because their motivations are not what gets people through the many rough spots.

 

[Pghboy18]

Nope, not at all. I'm sure he makes a lot of money for the university. Therein lies the problem. The reimbursement for procedures vs. what an FP/General internist does is out of whack, which if you bothered to read my posts, is what I said.

It's actually not. The fact is that docs who do procedures assume a much greater risk and need to be compensated for it accordingly. It also requires a skill set which must be honed over a longer period of time and is simply more valuable in the market than non-procedural skills. At the moment there are simply fewer people that can perform intricate procedures than can practice as FPs. There is also a much higher and in many cases unavoidable demand for procedural services. Like you said, the guy who got shot can't shop around for the best deal. He also can't decide not to have the bullet taken out.

Before anyone decides to go off, I'm not saying FP/primary care is not medically as important as procedural specialties. There's just more supply relative demand, and less inherent liability.

 

[niranjan162]

The difference is that being one of the best is not random. It takes hard work and the aptitude. Some of us do not have what it takes, but some do. Why encourage everyone to be average and suggest that anymore is improbable?

What do you wish to accomplish with these posts? Why not encourage students to work to be the best, or at least the best they can be, rather than to submit to mediocrity? Half of us are above average in aptitude. The most talented 1% should be more concerned with the lifestyle of the most talented 1%, rather than the average.

We are not dumb enough that we need to be constantly discouraged. Sure, maybe it is best to tell the special-ed kid in high school that his dream of being a doctor is unrealistic, but most all med students have the intelligence to realize where they stand. The bottom of the class does not plan on going into derm or rad onc, but some of the top students do. This is how it should be.

every heard the phrase its not what you know its who you know?

Sorry to bring you outta the world of puppy dogs and candycanes, but sometimes working hard and being the best doesnt get you the best.

He maybe a super genius, but I bet being famous has made him way more money then simply being smart.

 

[niranjan162]

Before anyone decides to go off, I'm not saying FP/primary care is not medically as important as procedural specialties. There's just more supply relative demand, and less inherent liability.

Huh? And here I thought there was a shortage of PCP's because procedures pays more.

 

[Pghboy18]

Huh? And here I thought there was a shortage of PCP's because procedures pays more.

There is a shortage of primary care docs relative to our NEED, not relative to the number of other docs. There are still more primary care docs than specialists. The problem (I think) is that as the need grows, we would need the number of people choosing primary care relative to other fields to increase, because the overall number of new docs isn't increasing dramatically (ie. no new medical schools). In other words, we would need people who are capable of going into higher paying specialties and willing to assume risk for greater compensation to forgo that compensation in favor of pursuing primary care. I think that isn't happening.

Overall, I think the pay is higher in specialties due to the nature of the think it's higher because fewer people can do it well and/or want to assume the risk.

 

[niranjan162]

There is a shortage of primary care docs relative to our NEED, not relative to the number of other docs. There are still more primary care docs than specialists. The problem (I think) is that as the need grows, we would need the number of people choosing primary care relative to other fields to increase, because the overall number of new docs isn't increasing dramatically (ie. no new medical schools). In other words, we would need people who are capable of going into higher paying specialties and willing to assume risk for greater compensation to forgo that compensation in favor of pursuing primary care. I think that isn't happening.

Overall, I think the pay is higher in specialties due to the nature of the think it's higher because fewer people can do it well and/or want to assume the risk.

There are some new schools opening up. Plus some schools have increased seats, plus there are new DO schools.

The pay is higher for specialist because medicine doesnt pay by the hour, it pays by results. Results come by doing procedures. This is what insurance companies and medicare pay for. The people who make the most money are those who dont have to deal with insurance. Theoritcally, if you opened a boutique FP, you could make alotta money. Since medicare is the government they can basically set the reimbursement scale. Other insurance companies then jump on board the lower prices.