Columbia or UPenn????

[CoachJawbone]

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hey guys, if you got into both this schools, where would you go to & why?

please try to exclude the hype about location...think academically, specialty rates, finances, diversity, boards, overall student content (from what u know) etc. i'm from nyc & went to undergraduate here, so though I love ny, it's nothing new to me...anyone have an opinion?

 

[Dentist2be]

hey guys, if you got into both this schools, where would you go to & why?

please try to exclude the hype about location...think academically, specialty rates, finances, diversity, boards, overall student content (from what u know) etc. i'm from nyc & went to undergraduate here, so though I love ny, it's nothing new to me...anyone have an opinion?

the exact same question has been asked. here is the link.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=374074&highlight=Columbia+Penn

 

[armorshell]

If you're going to go to a school full of gunners, might as well be the one that's "Pass/Fail"

 

[CoachJawbone]

thanks guys!! btw Columbia certifies all their student in Invisalign where as Penn doesnt, just an added tib bit

 

[armorshell]

thanks guys!! btw Columbia certifies all their student in Invisalign where as Penn doesnt, just an added tib bit

Aren't you planning on just applying to ortho school anyway?

 

[dayfu17]

Does anyone think the whole Honors/Pass/Fail thing is a little funny... it sounds a whole lot like A/C/F to me. Haha, I don't know, call it what you will they have the same impact. If you want to specialize then you are going to have to fight for the honors, just like you have to fight for an A.

 

[armorshell]

Does anyone think the whole Honors/Pass/Fail thing is a little funny... it sounds a whole lot like A/C/F to me. Haha, I don't know, call it what you will they have the same impact. If you want to specialize then you are going to have to fight for the honors, just like you have to fight for an A.

Don't get me started...

 

[CoachJawbone]

first, Invaslign is geared more for the Gen Dentist. Do i plan to do ortho, not sure, but regardless, might as well get certified along the way. After seeing Penn and CU, i feel as though Penn is more cut-throat, b/c there are clear grades been sought after, whereas CU seems more laid back b/c of the removed competitive edge. I think when you mix together a bunch of smart people and start handing out letter grades, you're bound to get a fierce and eager bunch of kids....

 

[Ething]

I am a first year at Penn and it is not cut-throat at all. Just bec we have A/B/C system does not mean that the whole class can't get A's. In fact, for most of the tests, the avg has been around an A. Seriously, don't let this be a determining factor. If you work hard you will get the A no problem just like you would get the honors at Columbia. I also believe that although there are no grades at Columbia (at least the gpa's are not presented to the students), the students are still ranked. So really, the whole pass/fail system makes no difference. In terms of specializing, I think it really will come down to board scores, research etc.

 

[armorshell]

first, Invaslign is geared more for the Gen Dentist. Do i plan to do ortho, not sure, but regardless, might as well get certified along the way. After seeing Penn and CU, i feel as though Penn is more cut-throat, b/c there are clear grades been sought after, whereas CU seems more laid back b/c of the removed competitive edge. I think when you mix together a bunch of smart people and start handing out letter grades, you're bound to get a fierce and eager bunch of kids....

I know about Invisalign, I was just yanking your chain about specializing. I didn't apply to Penn, but I did get accepted to Columbia and seriously considered attending. I personally agree with the previous poster about the H/P/F system. The school will keep very good track of exactly where you stand in the class, and that will reflect in any sort of recommendation letter that gets sent.

However, if you're primarily interested in general dentistry than I can see a P/F system, regardless of how P/F it actually is, being a stress-reliever. It's really hard for some people here at Pacific to deal with being ranked at the bottom of the class, regardless of how much they actually try to achieve. Removing that could definitely be nice if you're in that position.

 

[CoachJawbone]

thanks for your point of view dentist2be. wish i would have gotten more of a first year perspective during may interview

armor, would you mind sharing why you chose UoP for your education?

 

[StudentDentist]

CU's a good bit cheaper. Penn's a better-recognized name. Both are in shady areas of town. But CU seems more highly regarded in dental.

 

[Ething]

Hmm....I have heard that Penn is better clinically and produces better general dentists than Columbia. Then again, I'm probably biased. Around the same percentage of the class from both Columbia and Penn end up specializing right after school (the stats don't lie...a little more than a third for each school). In terms of academics, a good friend of mine is at Columbia and he told me that he is learning everything that the med students are learning. At Penn, everything is geared towards dentistry, which is nice. Don't get me wrong, we are learning a crap load of anatomy......but you can really see that they are focusing on head and neck.

 

[runrabbitrun]

CU's a good bit cheaper. Penn's a better-recognized name. Both are in shady areas of town. But CU seems more highly regarded in dental.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Having seriously both of these schools, and having a friend at both schools, I can definitely tell you that I would take Penn's University City location over Washington Heights any day of the week and twice on Sundays! Having the whole undergrad campus and all of the other grad programs around makes a world of difference. Plus, Penn has been doing a bang up job on improving the security presence, tearing down ugly old buildings, and revitalizing the area.

CU is cheaper, but I would disagree about the more highly regarded name in Dentistry. And as far as the specializing numbers are concerned, Columbia is slipping. I've heard it first hand (from three sources)that their NBDE 1 averages are not as high as they used to be compared to Harvard, Penn, UCLA, Uconn, and subsequently, youre not going to see them sending 14 to OMFS or 11 to Orhto anymore. It is still unclear to me what exactly these changes are that theyve made.

If you didnt get into any other schools, either of these would be good enough schools to attend. Just my two cents.

 

[armorshell]

armor, would you mind sharing why you chose UoP for your education?

No problem. I consider myself a pretty out of the ordinary SDN'er, because I specifically chose to go to Pacific looking to specialize, which might be considered blasphemy since I got in to CU as well. However, I personally believe that success lays squarely on the shoulders of the individual, and that "specialization rates" are a worthless artifact of self-selection: people who want to specialize go to "specialty schools", when they eventually do specialize, through hard work, the school gets all the credit.

Anyway, Pacific has a very well put together, intense program with great clinicals and underrated didactics. It has 2 strong associated oral surgery programs that like to take Pacific grads (Highland and UCSF-Fresno, a hospital at which every other residency program (medical) is associated with UCSF ).

The number of people that want to specialize here is laughable, there's probably more people at Penn interested in oral surgery than there are people at Pacific interested in specializing at all. This has two distinct advantages:
1. Competition for top spots is limited to the small number specialists to be
2. Getting relevant extra-curriculars is eeeaaaaasy, because nobody utilizes them.

Also, when comparing CU to Pacific, CU was significantly more expensive for me to attend (3 years vs. 4 and I got a scholarship at Pacific), and I personally couldn't see myself achieving as much in an "unranked" environment. I consider myself a fairly competitive guy, and getting rankings every quarter drives me to succeed. Same for intensity, though I'm sure CU is no cakewalk.

Anyway, those were the reasons I came to Pacific, sorry for the essay. Feel free to ask in here or PM if you have more questions.

 

[SHC1984]

I believe Columbia has the better-recognized name....I interviewed at both places as well and the OP is right this would be a very hard choice to make considering both schools are very well known.

CU's a good bit cheaper. Penn's a better-recognized name. Both are in shady areas of town. But CU seems more highly regarded in dental.

 

[dr bojangles]

my dentists that i shadow (older one is like late 50's, younger graduated ~5 years go), both agreed Penn has been and is probably closer to the top. since they have about 30 year difference from graduation, i'd conclude that through the ages Penn has been regarded as better.
though my two cents, i'd like to go to columbia, kind of want to live nyc life for 4 years (either way, both schools make debt my new best friend....👎)

 

[armorshell]

my dentists that i shadow (older one is like late 50's, younger graduated ~5 years go), both agreed Penn has been and is probably closer to the top. since they have about 30 year difference from graduation, i'd conclude that through the ages Penn has been regarded as better.
though my two cents, i'd like to go to columbia, kind of want to live nyc life for 4 years (either way, both schools make debt my new best friend....👎)

Closer to the top of what?

 

[dr bojangles]

Closer to the top of what?

to the top of whatever arbitrary ranking system dental students (or student hopefuls for that matter) have of dental schools in their minds. i should clarify, i assume my dentists meant that it was the better school, i don't know what better entails so don't ask. again, not MY opinion, just what i've heard.