columbia vs. cornell vs. nyu

[showtime212]

hey team,

im in the process of ranking columbia, cornell, and nyu within my top three choices for residency but keep flip-flopping between the order. i really enjoyed my time at all these programs and so its making it harder to make a decision. im interested in regional and pain, but attendings i keep talking to say i will be able to land a solid fellowship spot from any of these programs. I hope to one day end up in private practice and want to have the option to work on the west coast as well. Just wanted to know if anyone who did aways had any more insight into the day to day of these programs. Older attendings i speak to list columbia/cornell as the "malignant" ones in in ny, but that was not my impression when i went to go visit. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

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[kaioukenx]

You probably know more than I do about all these places. Based on your interest in regional/pain and having "name recognition" outside the Northeast, the obvious order seems to be Cornell > Columbia > NYU.

 

[lushmd]

You probably know more than I do about all these places. Based on your interest in regional/pain and having "name recognition" outside the Northeast, the obvious order seems to be Cornell > Columbia > NYU.

I don't think that there is an obvious order, but my thoughts (based on my recollection from interviewing a few years ago) would be Columbia>NYU>Cornell (this doesn't factor in Cornell's large pain fellowship program but is based more on overall impression).

 

[USAnesthesiaDoc]

definitely cornell > columbia > NYU

 

[powermd]

Can't speak about how Cornell's been doing in recent years, but Columbia was awesome when I graduated in 2008. The children's hospital experience is outstanding, as is critical care and cardiac, and regional's not bad either- although probably not what HSS offers. Pain has improved, but it's no where near world class yet (no program in NY is). Doesn't really matter though, unless you plan to stay put for fellowship. You get a team captain experience, which is a lot of fun, and helps ease the transition to PP. ORs are well run, and you have a lot of autonomy as a resident. Call frequency rocks, and as a CA-1 you will sleep through the night about 50% of the time. CA-2 is variable. CA-3 you won't sleep since there's pretty much always something going on that needs your attention. They seem to pick a pretty interesting group of residents from year to year too, which is cool. Lot's of interesting personalities.

 

[CarbonMonkey]

The pain and regional programs at Cornell are far superior compared to NYU and Columbia. However, like previously mentioned - you will probably have your choice of at least a few fellowship spots coming out from all three programs.

 

[showtime212]

thanks so much for all your help and input, and from what im reading it seems like theres no clear cut winner between columbia and cornell and i guess i woudnt really go wrong either way, i know cornell has one of the best regional experieces in the country, however im most likley going to do a fellowship anyway, and from what i can tell columbia sets you up pretty well for that too

can someone who graduated from the programs comment on the camraderie/work hours at columbia or cornell, it seems like i at least know my top 2 right now

 

[showtime212]

Can't speak about how Cornell's been doing in recent years, but Columbia was awesome when I graduated in 2008. The children's hospital experience is outstanding, as is critical care and cardiac, and regional's not bad either- although probably not what HSS offers. Pain has improved, but it's no where near world class yet (no program in NY is). Doesn't really matter though, unless you plan to stay put for fellowship. You get a team captain experience, which is a lot of fun, and helps ease the transition to PP. ORs are well run, and you have a lot of autonomy as a resident. Call frequency rocks, and as a CA-1 you will sleep through the night about 50% of the time. CA-2 is variable. CA-3 you won't sleep since there's pretty much always something going on that needs your attention. They seem to pick a pretty interesting group of residents from year to year too, which is cool. Lot's of interesting personalities.

thank you so much for your help and insight, im actually thinking about a possible pain fellowship as well and i see that you did pain too, how did you feel about getting a pain fellowship coming from columbia? did u consider cornell at the time you were applying, they have a pretty solid pain experience there as well right? also did u find columbia to be "malignant" while you were there, i didnt notice it on my interview, but just curious to find out from someone who graduated from the program, sorry for all the questions

 

[powermd]

thank you so much for your help and insight, im actually thinking about a possible pain fellowship as well and i see that you did pain too, how did you feel about getting a pain fellowship coming from columbia? did u consider cornell at the time you were applying, they have a pretty solid pain experience there as well right? also did u find columbia to be "malignant" while you were there, i didnt notice it on my interview, but just curious to find out from someone who graduated from the program, sorry for all the questions

Columbia puts you in a pretty solid position for any fellowship, although there's no one with 'pull' in pain there. I had five interviews at top programs and had two offers. Generally speaking in recent year's we've had good placements for pain (JHU, CC, UCLA, UCD, Stanford, etc).

I always find it amusing when people bring up Columbia's 'malignant' reputation with respect to anesthesiology. It may be malignant in some departments, but definitely NOT anesthesia! It's a very resident friendly program- I would even say we were a little coddled. It's a nice department and I have fond memories of the place. You get the breadth of small and big cases you need to be very confident you can handle anything, and the requisite autonomy as well. My only beef is the fact that as a big academic medical center, they are pretty risk averse, and the leap to PP style anesthesia is a shock for a lot of people I know who did it. Standards of care at NYP-columbia are WAY higher than at community hospitals. People make the adjustment, but it's a rude awakening. Case in point, a friend did locums at a crap hospital in NYC shortly after graduation. You had to leave your anesthetized patient to exit the OR to get ANY drugs at all from a Pyxis in the outer corridor. Not that big a deal, but when you're used to having everything you could possibly need at the ready... FOB, glidescope, airway cart? No problem. Six brand new drip pumps that work? No problem. OR pharmacy order needed NOW? No problem. Rapid infusion pumps? No problem. TEE? No problem. Experienced anesthesia tech?.... Transitioning away from all that luxury can be an adjustment.

I did consider Cornell at the time, but I got an unpleasant vibe from my interviewers, and I just wasn't that impressed with the place. There were also all kinds of rumors at the time of residents getting called back from home when not on call, etc. They didn't fill my year, and an email went out from the PD (by accident) indicating they chose not to rank many people from non-Ivy med schools in a ploy to improve the program's prestige. Doh! Very unprofessional. A buddy from my non-Ivy med school scrambled in after failing to match in surgery.. ha ha!

 

[LolaAnesthesia]

Columbia puts you in a pretty solid position for any fellowship, although there's no one with 'pull' in pain there. I had five interviews at top programs and had two offers. Generally speaking in recent year's we've had good placements for pain (JHU, CC, UCLA, UCD, Stanford, etc).

I always find it amusing when people bring up Columbia's 'malignant' reputation with respect to anesthesiology. It may be malignant in some departments, but definitely NOT anesthesia! It's a very resident friendly program- I would even say we were a little coddled. It's a nice department and I have fond memories of the place. You get the breadth of small and big cases you need to be very confident you can handle anything, and the requisite autonomy as well. My only beef is the fact that as a big academic medical center, they are pretty risk averse, and the leap to PP style anesthesia is a shock for a lot of people I know who did it. Standards of care at NYP-columbia are WAY higher than at community hospitals. People make the adjustment, but it's a rude awakening. Case in point, a friend did locums at a crap hospital in NYC shortly after graduation. You had to leave your anesthetized patient to exit the OR to get ANY drugs at all from a Pyxis in the outer corridor. Not that big a deal, but when you're used to having everything you could possibly need at the ready... FOB, glidescope, airway cart? No problem. Six brand new drip pumps that work? No problem. OR pharmacy order needed NOW? No problem. Rapid infusion pumps? No problem. TEE? No problem. Experienced anesthesia tech?.... Transitioning away from all that luxury can be an adjustment.

I did consider Cornell at the time, but I got an unpleasant vibe from my interviewers, and I just wasn't that impressed with the place. There were also all kinds of rumors at the time of residents getting called back from home when not on call, etc. They didn't fill my year, and an email went out from the PD (by accident) indicating they chose not to rank many people from non-Ivy med schools in a ploy to improve the program's prestige. Doh! Very unprofessional. A buddy from my non-Ivy med school scrambled in after failing to match in surgery.. ha ha!

Wow.... thanks for the info. What year did you match?

 

[showtime212]

Columbia puts you in a pretty solid position for any fellowship, although there's no one with 'pull' in pain there. I had five interviews at top programs and had two offers. Generally speaking in recent year's we've had good placements for pain (JHU, CC, UCLA, UCD, Stanford, etc).

I always find it amusing when people bring up Columbia's 'malignant' reputation with respect to anesthesiology. It may be malignant in some departments, but definitely NOT anesthesia! It's a very resident friendly program- I would even say we were a little coddled. It's a nice department and I have fond memories of the place. You get the breadth of small and big cases you need to be very confident you can handle anything, and the requisite autonomy as well. My only beef is the fact that as a big academic medical center, they are pretty risk averse, and the leap to PP style anesthesia is a shock for a lot of people I know who did it. Standards of care at NYP-columbia are WAY higher than at community hospitals. People make the adjustment, but it's a rude awakening. Case in point, a friend did locums at a crap hospital in NYC shortly after graduation. You had to leave your anesthetized patient to exit the OR to get ANY drugs at all from a Pyxis in the outer corridor. Not that big a deal, but when you're used to having everything you could possibly need at the ready... FOB, glidescope, airway cart? No problem. Six brand new drip pumps that work? No problem. OR pharmacy order needed NOW? No problem. Rapid infusion pumps? No problem. TEE? No problem. Experienced anesthesia tech?.... Transitioning away from all that luxury can be an adjustment.

I did consider Cornell at the time, but I got an unpleasant vibe from my interviewers, and I just wasn't that impressed with the place. There were also all kinds of rumors at the time of residents getting called back from home when not on call, etc. They didn't fill my year, and an email went out from the PD (by accident) indicating they chose not to rank many people from non-Ivy med schools in a ploy to improve the program's prestige. Doh! Very unprofessional. A buddy from my non-Ivy med school scrambled in after failing to match in surgery.. ha ha!

im always impressed by how helpful people on this site are, thanks so much!! i have been pretty certain that im ranking columbia as my top choice, but to hear ur sentiments about the program have put aside my last minute trepidations (mostly from student opinions on the interview trail hah), thanks again power

 

[xbulletin]

Columbia has the biggest name, Cornell has the best housing.

 

[johnny3022]

Columbia has the biggest name, Cornell has the best housing.

sorry for possibly hijacking the thread but why leave mt. sinai out of this conversation since it is basically about the premier programs not only in NYC but specifically Manhattan...i admittedly interviewed at all 4 and have a difficult time distinguishing one from the other...i personally contrast the ivy name of cornell and columbia vs. the warmer personalities of nyu and mt. sinai (yes, i found nyu personable)...i think each has its perks whether it is in housing, pay (CA-1 >$60,000 for nyu), moonlighting, "prestige", research, or ability to get fellowships/pp jobs/academic jobs..i think most people with the "problem" of having to decide between even 2 of these institutions are in a great position but really...what is everyone's top choice and why?

mine = cornell (want the ICU experience because I think that is the setting in which I can learn the most but ultimately I want to end up in pain and cornell has the largest "in house" opportunity)

...just food for thought not trying to stir the pot here (although it never hurts)...

 

[Jeff05]

sorry for possibly hijacking the thread but why leave mt. sinai out of this conversation since it is basically about the premier programs not only in NYC but specifically Manhattan...i admittedly interviewed at all 4 and have a difficult time distinguishing one from the other...i personally contrast the ivy name of cornell and columbia vs. the warmer personalities of nyu and mt. sinai (yes, i found nyu personable)...i think each has its perks whether it is in housing, pay (CA-1 >$60,000 for nyu), moonlighting, "prestige", research, or ability to get fellowships/pp jobs/academic jobs..i think most people with the "problem" of having to decide between even 2 of these institutions are in a great position but really...what is everyone's top choice and why?

mine = cornell (want the ICU experience because I think that is the setting in which I can learn the most but ultimately I want to end up in pain and cornell has the largest "in house" opportunity)

...just food for thought not trying to stir the pot here (although it never hurts)...

mount sinai has a fully revised pain interventional pain fellowship with 5 spots - with plenty of in-house opportunity.

 

[Peacefuldoc]

I'm a Cornell resident, and I wish I had known more about the program before I decided to rank it. Morale among our residents is appallingly low... it's tough to imagine a set of circumstances that would make it more malignant. Our program directors obviously don't care about their jobs, and the woman who runs the show - not officially the head program director but seems to be the most powerful of the three - is only concerned with making chair after the current chair retires. This is NOT a place to come if you need encouragement or good didactics... yes, we'll graduate with a strong name on our resumes, but at what cost? My husband tells me I'm not the same person I was when I started this program. Now I just have to make it to the finish line...

 

[TIVAndy]

I'm a Cornell resident, and I wish I had known more about the program before I decided to rank it. Morale among our residents is appallingly low... it's tough to imagine a set of circumstances that would make it more malignant. Our program directors obviously don't care about their jobs, and the woman who runs the show - not officially the head program director but seems to be the most powerful of the three - is only concerned with making chair after the current chair retires. This is NOT a place to come if you need encouragement or good didactics... yes, we'll graduate with a strong name on our resumes, but at what cost? My husband tells me I'm not the same person I was when I started this program. Now I just have to make it to the finish line...

comments like this a day before match drives people crazy. When I visited cornell, I had good vibe from the residents.. can someone else confirm this comment from a poster that has only one post? thank you.

 

[ashkenazi1234]

comments like this a day before match drives people crazy. When I visited cornell, I had good vibe from the residents.. can someone else confirm this comment from a poster that has only one post? thank you.

what is hear is several cornell residents committed suicide within the past few years, didn't stop me from ranking them high though, still an amazing place to train no doubt

 

[Magoun]

I'm a Cornell resident, and I wish I had known more about the program before I decided to rank it. Morale among our residents is appallingly low... it's tough to imagine a set of circumstances that would make it more malignant. Our program directors obviously don't care about their jobs, and the woman who runs the show - not officially the head program director but seems to be the most powerful of the three - is only concerned with making chair after the current chair retires. This is NOT a place to come if you need encouragement or good didactics... yes, we'll graduate with a strong name on our resumes, but at what cost? My husband tells me I'm not the same person I was when I started this program. Now I just have to make it to the finish line...

Well, I can only say that this has not been my experience.

What I do agree with is that Cornell is not a warm program -- if you thrive on encouragement and positive feedback, this is probably not the place. The program directors sees residency as a job, not as school, and hence are fairly old school in this approach. (Of course, I went to a state school for undergrad where they REALLY didn't care what happened to me, so I may have a thicker skin or lower expectations than some.)

The same woman that Peaceful references has helped me schedule around several personal issues over the years; I would not go to her to be a friend, though.

There was a suicide by overdose last year, and another overdose five years ago. Both were residents with substance abuse problems, and substance abuse in anesthesia is deadly.

My take: The clinical exposure is great, with plenty of cases amd lots of icu. You rotate through 3 excellent institutions (nyph, hss, memorial sloan-kettering) with completely different cultures and get a flavor of alternative practice environments. I would happily go have a beer with a large fraction of the faculty. I like my coresidents, and we have each others backs. The OR environment is very collegial, especially for an east coast hospital. You get to be in an amazing city (albeit a very expensive one). A bunch of the graduating residents last year stayed on.

That said, it is not perfect. As above, it ain't warm and fuzzy and that can be really hard for some people because residency is stressful (though unlike some other programs they haven't kicked anyone out in the entire time I've been there or for a while before). They tend to ride people that they think are having problems keeping up. Didactics are ok, but not good (however, I interviewed at many of the top programs in California and the northeast corridor and nowhere did the residents say they thought didactics were great -- I think people struggle with this everywhere).

Pick somewhere that felt good when you interviewed in a location where you could live. That's the best you can do. It will work out. Feel free to pm me for questions or specifics.

 

[Magoun]

Columbia has the biggest name, Cornell has the best housing.

This is awesome lore, if a bit misguided. Don't choose your residency based on housing. True, Cornell offers subsidized housing across the street from the hospital, but it's not that cheap for what it is (think $100/month below market) and you are living across the street from the hospital, which gets old.