Columbia vs Mayo vs UCSF

[theryuzaki]

Really struggling with this decision. My heart says Mayo/UCSF, but my wallet says Columbia . Would appreciate any advice. Not set on pursuing a specific specialty at the moment.

Mayo (MN) (Full tuition scholarship, appx $120k total COA)
Pros

• Small class size = lots of individual attention and mentorship
• #1 hospital in the country — clinical training is world-class
• Strong career advising and specialty-specific support (seems super personalized)
• Low cost of living in Rochester
• Faculty are very well-connected; many are leaders in their fields
• Match list is very strong, especially for competitive specialties
• Good vibes from current students/faculty at second look
• Internal funding, insulated from potential funding issues
• Funding for travel/research
• Flexibility in curriculum through selectives

Cons

• Not a very diverse class due to small size; might not find many people with similar background/experiences
• Rochester is small and not super diverse — limited things to do outside of school
• Clinical grading is tiered

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Columbia (Full tuition scholarship + $20k/year stipend, appx $55k total COA)
Pros

• Nearly full cost of attendance scholarship = very low debt
• More diverse student body
• Located in NYC — tons of things to do, tons of opportunities
• Serve a very diverse and complex patient population

Cons

• Larger class size (~140), so harder to get as much individualized support
• Reputation online for being competitive (?)
• High cost of living, would likely live in on-campus housing.
• Concerned about potential funding issues in the future
• Clinical grades are tiered + AOA (even though selection happens post-match)
• Reapply for financial aid each year though family finances will likely be similar year-to-year

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UCSF (Full tuition scholarship + $4k/year stipend, appx $110k total COA)
Pros

• Pass/fail for clinical grades = less stress, more collaborative
• Students seem to have a relaxed, supportive vibe
• Very diverse student body and patient population
• Amazing research opportunities, especially for academic medicine or competitive specialties
• Based in SF — big city, lots to do
• Closer to home and family in CA

Cons

• High cost of living and would likely bring my car to get around the bay
• Larger class (~170), so less individualized attention
• Reapply for financial aid each year though family finances will likely be similar year-to-year

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[TheRealBibFortuna]

My vote is Columbia, here's why:

Pros: free tuition + living expenses stipend

Cons:

• Larger class size (~140), 140 is about average, and Columbia has many more resources than the average school
• Reputation for being competitive --> I honestly hadn't heard that (I interviewed at Columbia and got WL'd) but a few other top schools get the same reputation and the general consensus at those places is that there isn't a competitive culture. Competition implies too few resources for too many students. What you see at top schools is ambition. Everyone wants to do well, but theres more than enough opportunity to go around.
• Very high cost of living. made invalid by your scholarship and cost of living stipend, no?
• Concerned about potential funding issues in the future --> a reasonable concern, but to my knowledge, Columbia has bent the knee so they're not experiencing any more funding issues than the other schools on your list.
• Clinical grades are tiered + AOA (even though selection happens post-match) ---> Valid, minus the AOA. I think AOA post match is a plus. It gives those that make AOA a step up in their future career without hindering those that didn't.
• Reapply for financial aid each year though family finances will likely be similar year-to-year --> Valid. I have no idea what that process would look like but I'm hopeful they wouldn't reduce your aid.

 

[theryuzaki]

My vote is Columbia, here's why:

Pros: free tuition + living expenses stipend

Cons:

• Larger class size (~140), 140 is about average, and Columbia has many more resources than the average school
• Reputation for being competitive --> I honestly hadn't heard that (I interviewed at Columbia and got WL'd) but a few other top schools get the same reputation and the general consensus at those places is that there isn't a competitive culture. Competition implies too few resources for too many students. What you see at top schools is ambition. Everyone wants to do well, but theres more than enough opportunity to go around.
• Very high cost of living. made invalid by your scholarship and cost of living stipend, no?
• Concerned about potential funding issues in the future --> a reasonable concern, but to my knowledge, Columbia has bent the knee so they're not experiencing any more funding issues than the other schools on your list.
• Clinical grades are tiered + AOA (even though selection happens post-match) ---> Valid, minus the AOA. I think AOA post match is a plus. It gives those that make AOA a step up in their future career without hindering those that didn't.
• Reapply for financial aid each year though family finances will likely be similar year-to-year --> Valid. I have no idea what that process would look like but I'm hopeful they wouldn't reduce your aid.

I appreciate your input! You make a good point about the availability of resources which would hopefully prevent the environment from feeling competitive. Edited my post regarding COL.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

If you really like the small class size and are worried about the funding, I'd say Mayo feels like a good fit.

I hated Rochester and hated the small class size but everyone who ended up there is super happy and thrilled to be there. Can you visit?

Otherwise, this is a tough call between UCSF and Columbia for me. I think UCSF might be worth it because it's such a good school (I'd say it's the highest prestige tier along with Harvard and Hopkins, you can't get better than these three schools in medicine), it's P/F, and it's closer to your family. None of my friends have cars at UCSF so I don't know why that's on your list. Where it is in SF also >>>>>>>>> Washington Heights. You'd also save on not buying cross-country flights.

I vote UCSF here. Congratulations on great options!

Edit: I slightly misunderstood the finances, Columbia *is* significantly cheaper. I don't think going to Columbia would be a mistake, it's a great school, but I maintain that I think you could justify UCSF here if that's where your heart is! Recommend visiting all.

 

[alphaketoglutarate_lover]

Just to clear one thing up first: For UCSF, you are guaranteed the same financial aid or higher each year. You just have to submit the FAFSA each year, but not parent’s financial information.

Are you interested in matching for residency in CA? If so, UCSF might be a better choice. However, all your options are amazing and will probably open any doors for you.

In terms of diversity, I think UCSF does better than Columbia. Over half of people from UCSF are URM, compared to ~25% at Columbia. However, I would say both schools serve equally diverse patient populations.

I think Columbia is better in terms of international prestige if you care about that. The UCSF environment is more collaborative with everything being pass/fail.

Financially, you are getting a full cost of attendance scholarship at both. I also think the living costs that you estimated for UCSF are a bit high, especially since all students can get free state healthcare and food stamps. That is to say - there is not as big of a price difference between the two schools as you might think - so follow your heart!

 

[theryuzaki]

Just to clear one thing up first: For UCSF, you are guaranteed the same financial aid or higher each year. You just have to submit the FAFSA each year, but not parent’s financial information.

You're right. Just updated the post to reflect that!

Financially, you are getting a full cost of attendance scholarship at both. I also think the living costs that you estimated for UCSF are a bit high, especially since all students can get free state healthcare and food stamps. That is to say - there is not as big of a price difference between the two schools as you might think - so follow your heart!

My original post was probably unclear regarding the finances for each school. Columbia offered $20k/year on top of full tuition/fees for living expenses. You're right that my COL estimate was probably a bit too high for UCSF. For what it's worth, I based all of the numbers off of the estimates provided by each school.

Appreciate your input!

edit: re-calculated COA by hand and updated post with new estimates.

 

[alphaketoglutarate_lover]

You're right. Just updated the post to reflect that!


My original post was probably unclear regarding the finances for each school. Columbia offered $20k/year on top of full tuition/fees for living expenses. You're right that my COL estimate was probably a bit too high for UCSF. For what it's worth, I based all of the numbers off of the estimates provided by each school.

Appreciate your input!

edit: re-calculated COA by hand and updated post with new estimates.

With the updated costs, with a difference of 55k total (13,750) per year, I would say to follow your heart and go UCSF! Obviously, 55k is a lot of money, but it will be earned back quickly when you are a physician.

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

With the updated costs, with a difference of 55k total (13,750) per year, I would say to follow your heart and go UCSF! Obviously, 55k is a lot of money, but it will be earned back quickly when you are a physician.

Seeing the updated cost, I agree ^^^