Columbia vs NYU Postbacc

[premedboi]

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I know this question has been asked several times on this forum, but the related threads are all a bit dated, and I was hoping to get insights from people with recent experience in a NYC post-bacc program.

I was accepted to both NYU and Columbia postbac, and after reading a lot of negative info. about CU's program, I'm very hesitant in my decision-making, especially because of the large amounts of debt at stake. In retrospect, I would have applied to Hunter, but the deadline is Dec. 15, and I don't think I'll be able to get my materials and a second rec. letter in in time.

Does anyone have any credible insights to offer? I'm looking for first-hand, second-hand accounts of either program.

Some background info. on me: I'm 24 with a BA in Chinese from BYU. Long story short --I have a a couple friends that are HIV+, and their experiences with treatment made me passionate about medicine.

I really appreciate any help. Thank you!

 

[jamcat]

tl;dr: Not a post-bacc there myself but am very familiar with the program and I tutor Columbia post-baccs. Do not go to Columbia. Do apply to Hunter.

Don't do Columbia, if only because of their Intro Bio course. The instructor prides herself on her particular style of problem-based learning. While I think it's really effective at teaching--you learn things typically taught in upper-level courses and use Cell Bio and Physiology textbooks--the exams are simply very poor evaluations of student understanding. You can know the material inside and out and get a B- in the class. Or you could get an A in the class, or anything in between. Either way, it does not reflect the extent of your knowledge or ability to apply your knowledge in the slightest. That's scary as a pre-med, and it's best avoided. Of course you can think *you'll* study hard and the folks who end up with the poor grades just weren't smart enough. Most people thought this entering the program, and are devastated to find it's not the case in this class.

I have no dog in this fight. I'm not and never have been a post-bacc in their pre-med program, but I have tutored those who are. It's heartbreaking to see very excellent, competent people with 3.8+ undergrad GPAs limiting their choice of med schools because the grades they received in Intro Bio that do not in any way reflect their understanding of biology.

The majority of post-baccs in the program are either neutral about it, negative about it, or have dropped out. There is an extremely high attrition rate. You should also be aware that most post-bacc students don't have very high GPAs in the program, even outside of Bio. I obviously haven't polled everyone, but from my experience I'd guess that the average GPA is between 3.3 and 3.6, not exactly what you'd expect from a group of extremely motivated post-baccs who are working only part-time and taking two classes. What I see is newer post-baccs saying "Well my GPA isn't the highest but it's from Columbia so med schools will take that into consideration," and then post-baccs going through the application process saying "Why did I decide to come here???"

Honestly, as a post-bacc your goal is to get As, as petty as that sounds. You'll see people on here say that Ivy classes aren't harder and that community colleges can be just as hard but that's not true. Exceptions exist, but it's not the rule. I'm not interested in a debate here so I won't go into my qualifications to make that statement (plus, I'd like to remain anonymous), so you can either trust me or not. Being a pre-med post-bacc is not the time to "try out" an Ivy. You likely haven't had many science courses in undergrad so your science GPA, which is crucial for med school, will be composed almost entirely of your pre-reqs. Go to a place where you know you can be successful. More dreams have been quashed by a middling GPA at an Ivy than a good GPA at an easier school; for med school it's definitely better to go to an easier school and get better grades.

I would definitely recommend applying to Hunter, unless you have some extraordinary source of money.

Hoped this helps. Feel free to PM me if you want further info.

Edited for spelling.

 

[premedboi]

tl;dr: Not a post-bacc there myself but am very familiar with the program and I tutor Columbia post-baccs. Do not go to Columbia. Do apply to Hunter.

Don't do Columbia, if only because of their Intro Bio course. The instructor prides herself on her particular style of problem-based learning. While I think it's really effective at teaching--you learn things typically taught in upper-level courses and use Cell Bio and Physiology textbooks--the exams are simply very poor evaluations of student understanding. You can know the material inside and out and get a B- in the class. Or you could get an A in the class, or anything in between. Either way, it does not reflect the extent of your knowledge or ability to apply your knowledge in the slightest. That's scary as a pre-med, and it's best avoided. Of course you can think *you'll* study hard and the folks who end up with the poor grades just weren't smart enough. Most people thought this entering the program, and are devastated to find it's not the case in this class.

I have no dog in this fight. I'm not and never have been a post-bacc in their pre-med program, but I have tutored those who are. It's heartbreaking to see very excellent, competent people with 3.8+ undergrad GPAs limiting their choice of med schools because the grades they received in Intro Bio that do not in any way reflect their understanding of biology.

The majority of post-baccs in the program are either neutral about it, negative about it, or have dropped out. There is an extremely high attrition rate. You should also be aware that most post-bacc students don't have very high GPAs in the program, even outside of Bio. I obviously haven't polled everyone, but from my experience I'd guess that the average GPA is between 3.3 and 3.6, not exactly what you'd expect from a group of extremely motivated post-baccs who are working only part-time and taking two classes. What I see is newer post-baccs saying "Well my GPA isn't the highest but it's from Columbia so med schools will take that into consideration," and then post-baccs going through the application process saying "Why did I decide to come here???"

Honestly, as a post-bacc your goal is to get As, as petty as that sounds. You'll see people on here say that Ivy classes aren't harder and that community colleges can be just as hard but that's not true. Exceptions exist, but it's not the rule. I'm not interested in a debate here so I won't go into my qualifications to make that statement (plus, I'd like to remain anonymous), so you can either trust me or not. Being a pre-med post-bacc is not the time to "try out" an Ivy. You likely haven't had many science courses in undergrad so your science GPA, which is crucial for med school, will be composed almost entirely of your pre-reqs. Go to a place where you know you can be successful. More dreams have been quashed by a middling GPA at an Ivy than a good GPA at an easier school; for med school it's definitely better to go to an easier school and get better grades.

I would definitely recommend applying to Hunter, unless you have some extraordinary source of money.

Hoped this helps. Feel free to PM me if you want further info.

Edited for spelling.

Thank you very much for the in-depth advice. I feel like I have much better perspective now, and I will definitely be applying to Hunter. I really appreciate it.

 

[jamcat]

Glad to help. I was hesitant about posting because I'm generally a positive person and hate being so critical, particularly in a public forum, but I wanted you to have the best basis for making your decision. I want to add the disclaimer that I have absolutely zero familiarity with the NYU and Hunter programs so can't offer any comparison. Good luck in selecting your post-bacc! Like I said, feel free to PM me if you have any more questions about Columbia.

 

[cheree cheree]

I'm currently in my second year at NYU's post-bacc. I was in your shoes and there was very little info on the NYU program so I'd like to help. BTW, I've heard it's impossible to get a seat in Hunter's science classes and they don't reserve spots for accepted post-baccs. I think this is even published on their website now. But in the meantime, look into Fordham! They have postbacc-only classes at NIGHT -- you're not with undergrads and you can work during the day.

Basically, at the point I'm in now, I can't say I've loved NYU but I can't say it's been all bad, either. NYU is more supportive than Columbia. While the advising hasn't been STELLAR, the post-bacc cohort is smaller than the swarms at Columbia. You're still with all the undergrads though, in huge lectures. Doing a post-bacc is a painful ordeal anywhere, but I'm hoping the committee letter from NYU will be worth it. NYU gives every post-bacc student a committee letter, while I hear that Columbia does not.

Unfortunately, grades are the most important part. You will start to think of yourself as a constantly shifting number. Here's what I wish I knew going into NYU. Each course's grading scheme is different. The biology sequence here, while taught by several professors at once, is difficult. Having multiple professors for each exam is an annoying complication. But the A is achievable. (This is coming from a former literature major.) Because of that, you get to enjoy the one class that's actually really interesting to a future doctor 🙂

General chemistry is "straightforward," meaning the exams aren't dramatically more difficult than the homework and quizzes. The professor, Halpin, is really generous with grading. There's no curve and he drops your lowest exam. He's a bit cranky but in a loveable way. As a REALLY non-sciencey person I got through this course with an amazing tutor.

Organic chemistry is the worst part of the whole experience. It is horrible. The program is designed so that post-baccs take orgo IN THE SUMMER. Both orgo I and II are done in two intensive 6-week sessions. Most people make it through, but it's a GPA shredder and an entirely soul-crushing experience. I wish I had trusted my instincts and never, ever attempted this sequence in the summer. Basically, if you're great at science and have an unusually high threshold for stress, and are not an anxious person, go for it. They curve the average to a B-/C+. PM me if you want to know more because the other options for taking orgo deserve a lot of consideration, too.

Physics is very much like general chemistry in that the professor is a sweetheart and there's no curve. You basically get what you put into it. However, for some reason (probably budget-related) the physics department is short on TAs, so there is no recitation. The worst part is that the professor doesn't have enough staff to grade long-answer exams, so he has to make his exams multiple choice. This is weird for a quantitative class but once you figure out what the exams are going for, you're okay. PM me for more detail.

I hope this helps and feel free to ask me any further questions!

 

[panda monium]

hey, i did a DIY post-bac at a different CUNY (not hunter). i applied as a 2nd degree student, so i got to register first for classes (since as a 2nd degree stuent, you re considered like, a super senior). i got into multiple DO schools and one MD program. i highly suggest considering a DIY at any 4 year CUNY.

a friend of mine also did the same thing, and got multiple MD interview invites and at least one acceptance (we were both worried about the non "name brand"-ness of the school, and the fact that it wasn't a formal post-bac, but it was a non-issue. feel free to PM me for more info

 

[jamcat]

This is actually exactly what I would do if I were going through the same process. All the "formal" part of the post-bacc does is get you a committee letter, and as a non-trad you're not really expected to have one unless you are in a formal program.

Make sure, though, that you apply to the CUNY as a second degree student in order to be able to get into the classes you need.

 

[Felzor]

These are fantastic insights. Thanks. It sounds like Hunter, Fordham, NYU, and CUNY are all worth considering. While we're on the topic of NYC programs, does anyone know about LIU (Long Island University)? The health sciences campus is in Brooklyn and there also appears to be a post-bacc program listed on their website, but there's almost no information about it on SDN or the interwebs.

 

[adoctoralawyer]

As someone currently looking into the NYC post-baccs, I thought I would add my $.02. From what I hear, CUNY-Hunter allows the post-baccs to register for science classes BEFORE other students, so there shouldn't be a problem getting needed classes there. It's at City College that post-baccs have to register AFTER the other students and might have a real problem getting the classes they need, as City College specifically notes on its post-bacc website in a couple of places. Looking at some of the back-posts on this forum it seems like City College post-baccs do indeed have a hard time getting the classes they need.

Also, re Fordham, from what I have seen it seems like a good program even though it's new, and they do have convenient evening classes like one of the posters above noted. However, one thing to be aware of is that they require you to take more classes than some of the other post-bacc programs, for example psychology and sociology are required courses in order to graduate Fordham's program whereas most other post-bacc programs don't make those classes required.

 

[Bru]

Hunter post-baccs have a degree of priority registration. This largely mitigated the issues of class registration but there is still competition for popular time slots/sections of some classes as well as the upper level electives. Basically you start to compete against other people who have the same registration priority.

 

[MrSamrtGuy]

Hunter post-baccs have a degree of priority registration. This largely mitigated the issues of class registration but there is still competition for popular time slots/sections of some classes as well as the upper level electives. Basically you start to compete against other people who have the same registration priority.

When you say Hunter postbaccs-do you mean only those in the formal program, or also second degree students?

 

[Bru]

When you say Hunter postbaccs-do you mean only those in the formal program, or also second degree students?

Those in the program. 2nd degree students do not have any priority registration at all.