- Joined
- Mar 11, 2002
- Messages
- 117
- Reaction score
- 0
Its unfortunate that one man can decide the med school fate of so many...
Columbia Waitlist News?
- Thread starter kafka79
- Start date
Hey everyone... just read of another waitlist acceptance on the "OFFICIAL WAITLIST MOVEMENT THREAD."
Apparently, this person didn't receive any handwritten notes on letters returned by Dean Frantz. Food for thought, I guess!
Apparently, this person didn't receive any handwritten notes on letters returned by Dean Frantz. Food for thought, I guess!
Perhaps it is a little pointless to post this up since we have all been giving Columbia our love, but this was written in another thread by a current First Year student at Columbia. It basically talks about how he's happy he chose P&S and what a great place it is (again, sentiments we share already!) It just makes me LOVE P&S more...
po' boy
Senior Member
Member # 4728
posted May 12, 2002 02:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CD4,
As a student who faced a similar decision last May, and with a year of hindsight, I can empathize with your dilemma and offer a few thoughts.
I'm currently finishing my first year at Columbia, which I chose over acceptances at Stanford and the University of Michigan. It was kind of a funny situation in that I heard back from all three schools right around the May deadline -- Columbia I interviewed at a second time in April to try and get off the waitlist; Stanford had offered me an interview in late April, long after I thought I was done flying around; and Michigan came up with additional funds that would have made it possible to go there as an out-of-stater.
I'm from Tennessee, but I had a sister in SF, so weather and family were on Stanford's side. But at the time, I was kind of turned off by the idea of spending 5 years in med school (and I was kind of scared of the research-heavy environment, having not had much research experience). Michigan had an outstanding curriculum, with lots of online resources and weekly quizzes to hone skills, but I was kind of turned off by the idea of being isolated in blizzards in Ann Arbor (a great town, but a cultural oasis, with Detroit being the closest major city). Columbia was in New York, a place I was attracted to and wanted to spend my early twenties living in. I was told the basic sciences were taught well there, the students said they were extemely happy, and among medical personnel I spoke with it seemed to have the highest reputation. Finances were not ultimately an issue in my decision because my need-based aid made the cost roughly comparable between schools.
The thing you need to take a good hard look at is yourself, not the schools. Ask yourself -- am I a city person, or do I like the peace (and perhaps boredom) of a suburb? Is good weather important to my emotional well-being? Is proximity to family something I would miss?
These are the things you will be kicking yourself over later if you don't consider them now. They are SO much more crucial to your day-to-day happiness (and consequently, your success as a med student) than the ins-and-outs of curriculae, especially the first two years, during which time YOU WILL LEARN THE SAME STUFF EVERYWHERE. Most of your learning will not be done in the classroom then, because learning in med school is not passive like it was in college. You have to find the books, resources, websites etc. that WORK FOR YOU, and many of those will not be offered by your school. Most of us around the country actually use the same stuff -- ask the second-years on the Allopathic board what review books they're using to study for boards, and they'll mention pretty much the same things. Same goes for class materials. Even if you have the best teachers in the world, only you will be able to put all this information into your head, so don't let "innovative curricula" be the deciding factor in where you spend the next four years of your life.
For me, Michigan had the most solid curriculum by far, with new iMacs at each Anatomy table and weekly tests every monday morning at 8am. And I'm sure all that class time and quizzing would've made me more adept at giving answers to pimping on command come third year. But if also would've had a big effect on me personally, and the grind would've absolutely killed me. You don't think it will now, but you don't know how draining med school can be until you're there. Kind of like being an idealistic 18-year-old sent off to war.
New York seemed like it would be an amazing place to spend four years, and sometimes it is. When I go out, the restaurants are amazing, and there's entertainment everywhere you look. I've met an amazing 2nd-year here who I'm hoping I'll be together with for a long time, and I'm going to Japan this summer for a funded summer research internship I only could've gotten through Columbia. I've learned a ton this year (despite my poor memory), and so I have a lot to be thankful for in coming to P&S.
But I don't get out that much. Perhaps it's the fact that Columbia is located so far uptown in a kind-of-crappy neighborhood, or perhaps it's the emotional/physical activation energy required to put down the books. Maybe it's because I live in a dorm instead of an apartment, with no real kitchen. Or maybe I'm just realizing that the crowds and noise, while fun, are not my personality. On the curriculum front, Columbia is pretty strong at teaching some things (Neural Science, Neuroanatomy, Anatomy, Embryology) and worse at others (Physiology, and the touchy-feely Clinical Practice course, which may just be useless everywhere in first year). Also, I've found Columbia to be resistant to change regarding curriculum and international opportunities, due in large part to overwhelming bureaucracy. But I'm working to change these things here, and I know the new med school Dean has big plans for Columbia's future (after I'm gone, of course).
I know how run-down parts of Stanford felt, and I was deeply concerned about how the facilities would impact my education too. But in all seriousness, this is probably a non-issue. Most of the research you'll do in journals can be done on-line at Stanford, which emphasizes e-learning to a far greater extent than most other schools. All of their lectures are digitized and put online (same at Penn), and they use interactive web-based learning materials for most of their courses. You can study at any of the undergraduate libraries, which are fantastic. (At either Stanford or Penn, the fact that an undergrad campus is attached is huge, for both social and administrative reasons.)
But most of all, the programs in place at Stanford for research (basic, clinical, international medical, social, and humanistic) are unparalleled among any other medical school I've seen. You'll have to research Penn's website to compare the two -- I'm unfamiliar with Penn's opportunities. Although I was originally turned off my the idea of spending five years in med school (and I still kind of am), the flexibility that you could have in tailoring your own medical education at Stanford is something that I sorely miss at Columbia. We only recently convinced the administration here that international summer research is worth funding, whereas the Traveling Scholars program has been in place at Stanford for years (and is much better funded -- students get paid a small fortune for the summer, over $13,000). This kind of flexibility is really important in helping you find out the kind of physician you want to become. Penn has it too -- you finish basic science in 1.5 years there, so you have additional time to pursue electives/research in whatever you like.
This post is long enough already, so I'll wrap it up. I'll tell you what everyone told me last year, which is that you can't really make a wrong decision either way (not a helpful statement at all, and not entirely true either). I can tell you that I totally underestimated the importance of weather and family in my decision. In Columbia's defense, I have a feeling that 2nd year wil be better than first (due to a different exam schedule and more interesting material) and that 3rd/4th years will be really great here (busy city hospital, lots of exposure to underserved patients).
But that's a ways away.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 62 | From: NYC | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged
po' boy
Senior Member
Member # 4728
posted May 12, 2002 02:10 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CD4,
As a student who faced a similar decision last May, and with a year of hindsight, I can empathize with your dilemma and offer a few thoughts.
I'm currently finishing my first year at Columbia, which I chose over acceptances at Stanford and the University of Michigan. It was kind of a funny situation in that I heard back from all three schools right around the May deadline -- Columbia I interviewed at a second time in April to try and get off the waitlist; Stanford had offered me an interview in late April, long after I thought I was done flying around; and Michigan came up with additional funds that would have made it possible to go there as an out-of-stater.
I'm from Tennessee, but I had a sister in SF, so weather and family were on Stanford's side. But at the time, I was kind of turned off by the idea of spending 5 years in med school (and I was kind of scared of the research-heavy environment, having not had much research experience). Michigan had an outstanding curriculum, with lots of online resources and weekly quizzes to hone skills, but I was kind of turned off by the idea of being isolated in blizzards in Ann Arbor (a great town, but a cultural oasis, with Detroit being the closest major city). Columbia was in New York, a place I was attracted to and wanted to spend my early twenties living in. I was told the basic sciences were taught well there, the students said they were extemely happy, and among medical personnel I spoke with it seemed to have the highest reputation. Finances were not ultimately an issue in my decision because my need-based aid made the cost roughly comparable between schools.
The thing you need to take a good hard look at is yourself, not the schools. Ask yourself -- am I a city person, or do I like the peace (and perhaps boredom) of a suburb? Is good weather important to my emotional well-being? Is proximity to family something I would miss?
These are the things you will be kicking yourself over later if you don't consider them now. They are SO much more crucial to your day-to-day happiness (and consequently, your success as a med student) than the ins-and-outs of curriculae, especially the first two years, during which time YOU WILL LEARN THE SAME STUFF EVERYWHERE. Most of your learning will not be done in the classroom then, because learning in med school is not passive like it was in college. You have to find the books, resources, websites etc. that WORK FOR YOU, and many of those will not be offered by your school. Most of us around the country actually use the same stuff -- ask the second-years on the Allopathic board what review books they're using to study for boards, and they'll mention pretty much the same things. Same goes for class materials. Even if you have the best teachers in the world, only you will be able to put all this information into your head, so don't let "innovative curricula" be the deciding factor in where you spend the next four years of your life.
For me, Michigan had the most solid curriculum by far, with new iMacs at each Anatomy table and weekly tests every monday morning at 8am. And I'm sure all that class time and quizzing would've made me more adept at giving answers to pimping on command come third year. But if also would've had a big effect on me personally, and the grind would've absolutely killed me. You don't think it will now, but you don't know how draining med school can be until you're there. Kind of like being an idealistic 18-year-old sent off to war.
New York seemed like it would be an amazing place to spend four years, and sometimes it is. When I go out, the restaurants are amazing, and there's entertainment everywhere you look. I've met an amazing 2nd-year here who I'm hoping I'll be together with for a long time, and I'm going to Japan this summer for a funded summer research internship I only could've gotten through Columbia. I've learned a ton this year (despite my poor memory), and so I have a lot to be thankful for in coming to P&S.
But I don't get out that much. Perhaps it's the fact that Columbia is located so far uptown in a kind-of-crappy neighborhood, or perhaps it's the emotional/physical activation energy required to put down the books. Maybe it's because I live in a dorm instead of an apartment, with no real kitchen. Or maybe I'm just realizing that the crowds and noise, while fun, are not my personality. On the curriculum front, Columbia is pretty strong at teaching some things (Neural Science, Neuroanatomy, Anatomy, Embryology) and worse at others (Physiology, and the touchy-feely Clinical Practice course, which may just be useless everywhere in first year). Also, I've found Columbia to be resistant to change regarding curriculum and international opportunities, due in large part to overwhelming bureaucracy. But I'm working to change these things here, and I know the new med school Dean has big plans for Columbia's future (after I'm gone, of course).
I know how run-down parts of Stanford felt, and I was deeply concerned about how the facilities would impact my education too. But in all seriousness, this is probably a non-issue. Most of the research you'll do in journals can be done on-line at Stanford, which emphasizes e-learning to a far greater extent than most other schools. All of their lectures are digitized and put online (same at Penn), and they use interactive web-based learning materials for most of their courses. You can study at any of the undergraduate libraries, which are fantastic. (At either Stanford or Penn, the fact that an undergrad campus is attached is huge, for both social and administrative reasons.)
But most of all, the programs in place at Stanford for research (basic, clinical, international medical, social, and humanistic) are unparalleled among any other medical school I've seen. You'll have to research Penn's website to compare the two -- I'm unfamiliar with Penn's opportunities. Although I was originally turned off my the idea of spending five years in med school (and I still kind of am), the flexibility that you could have in tailoring your own medical education at Stanford is something that I sorely miss at Columbia. We only recently convinced the administration here that international summer research is worth funding, whereas the Traveling Scholars program has been in place at Stanford for years (and is much better funded -- students get paid a small fortune for the summer, over $13,000). This kind of flexibility is really important in helping you find out the kind of physician you want to become. Penn has it too -- you finish basic science in 1.5 years there, so you have additional time to pursue electives/research in whatever you like.
This post is long enough already, so I'll wrap it up. I'll tell you what everyone told me last year, which is that you can't really make a wrong decision either way (not a helpful statement at all, and not entirely true either). I can tell you that I totally underestimated the importance of weather and family in my decision. In Columbia's defense, I have a feeling that 2nd year wil be better than first (due to a different exam schedule and more interesting material) and that 3rd/4th years will be really great here (busy city hospital, lots of exposure to underserved patients).
But that's a ways away.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 62 | From: NYC | Registered: Jan 2001 | IP: Logged
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2002
- Messages
- 189
- Reaction score
- 9
Anymore good news from folks out there? Especially post-May 15?
Frantz has replied to my emails, and wrote something about me being "particularly highly ranked," but I haven't gotten a magic phone call from him.
Frantz has replied to my emails, and wrote something about me being "particularly highly ranked," but I haven't gotten a magic phone call from him.
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 1,114
- Reaction score
- 0
Hi all you columbia people
Congrats for those of you who have gotten acceptances and, for those who havent, I'll keep my fingers crossed!
I definitely want to apply to Columbia and I was just wondering how realistic this is. What kind of stats did you guys have?
Thanks!
Congrats for those of you who have gotten acceptances and, for those who havent, I'll keep my fingers crossed!
I definitely want to apply to Columbia and I was just wondering how realistic this is. What kind of stats did you guys have?
Thanks!
- Joined
- May 18, 2002
- Messages
- 31
- Reaction score
- 0
I got in off the waitlist last Monday (May 20), Dr. Frantz called me. The only letters I had received from him previously were in response to letters I had sent and were not handwritten. However, the one prior to my acceptance said that he thought my chances for admissions were "quite good". I too had gotten frustrated with telling him Columbia was my first choice, but eventually it pays off. And they're (adcoms) definitely conspiring against us, because Gaye Sheffler called me the next day. I love Columbia and I'd love to see some of you there in August. Hope this is helpful.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2001
- Messages
- 735
- Reaction score
- 0
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Capitan:
•Goldie, when did you hear that he is in Turkey? It seems like an awfully inopportune time for him to go, doesn't it? Especially with all of the waitlistees patiently waiting away.•••••Okay. . . he IS allowed to go on vacation -- c'mon, give the guy a break -- it's never a good time because the application process is in high gear from the time interviews begin (late august) through June. This certainly doesn't give you a big window for travel, and I am sure there are others whose schedules matter as well (e.g. significant other...).
•Goldie, when did you hear that he is in Turkey? It seems like an awfully inopportune time for him to go, doesn't it? Especially with all of the waitlistees patiently waiting away.•••••Okay. . . he IS allowed to go on vacation -- c'mon, give the guy a break -- it's never a good time because the application process is in high gear from the time interviews begin (late august) through June. This certainly doesn't give you a big window for travel, and I am sure there are others whose schedules matter as well (e.g. significant other...).
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2003
- Messages
- 46
- Reaction score
- 0
He's not on vacation - I called today and spoke to him. He was very nice but told me nothing - just that there has been less movement, they will keep me very much in mind. I guess other people have been getting in or getting more feedback so I am probably not high up on the list :-( The secretary told me that they expect people to respond by may 15 but not everyone does so just wait til they get more responses in...it's still early...blah blah...SO discouraged! I had my first interview with Dr Frantz, so I guess he doesn't give second interviews to people he's already met, but the fact that he won't tell me anything more than the generic answer makes me pretty upset...
