Combined BS/MD programs?

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NRAI2001

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Hi

My little brother will be applying to colleges this coming year and he said he is interested in combined BS/MD programs. I dont really know much about any of these programs but I was wondering if there is some sort of list that has all the programs listed?

Also I was wondering what these programs look for in Highschool students who are applying to them? High SATs? Research (dont know many HS kids doing research)? College level course work? Clinical experience?

Anyone in/completed one of these programs?

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NRAI2001 said:
Hi

My little brother will be applying to colleges this coming year and he said he is interested in combined BS/MD programs. I dont really know much about any of these programs but I was wondering if there is some sort of list that has all the programs listed?

Also I was wondering what these programs look for in Highschool students who are applying to them? High SATs? Research (dont know many HS kids doing research)? College level course work? Clinical experience?

Anyone in/completed one of these programs?

MSAR has section with BS/MD programs. I think AAMC web site has some info as well.
 
I know UCSD has a program, but my validvictorian from my high school didn't get into it and he had almost near perfect stats. I think you go in for an interview after applying, and they accept maybe 5-10 per year? I know theres a list of schools that offer this program, but I think it was on the college list .
 
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thejonqproject said:
I know UCSD has a program, but my validvictorian from my high school didn't get into it and he had almost near perfect stats. I think you go in for an interview after applying, and they accept maybe 5-10 per year? I know theres a list of schools that offer this program, but I think it was on the college list .

Wow i never knew UCSD had such a program. I knew Riverside has one (does it still have one, i think someone was saying that they canceled the program). I knew back when I was in HS USC also had one, does that still exist?
 
Be wary of these programs.

I did a BA/MD program out of HS and it was so accellerated, to cram everything in they cut too much out of the core sciences. (crammed orgo into a single semester, no physics, biochem II was meshed into some other course, etc.) By the time I was supposed to hit the upper level stuff, I had such a weak foundation, I would have been screwed.

I wound up leaving, getting my BA and hitting a post-bac program just to be able to reapply. And trust me, this is a skeleton in the closet that has made this go-round very tough.

Basically, I jumped into the program b/c I was too eager to get into medicine and not patient enough to do it the right way. Don't make that mistake. Research your programs.
 
thejonqproject said:
I know UCSD has a program, but my validvictorian from my high school didn't get into it and he had almost near perfect stats. I think you go in for an interview after applying, and they accept maybe 5-10 per year? I know theres a list of schools that offer this program, but I think it was on the college list .


This goes to show that the admissions process is about more than just the stats, even for BS/MD programs. I used to work for the chair of admissions at UCSD, and he told stories of 17 and 18 year old kids that had 4.0GPAs and 1500+ SATs that were quickly rejected from the program when the showed that they were immature or werent really very interested. One kid even said in an interview that he didnt want to be a doctor, he was just applying to appease his parents :laugh:
 
Depakote said:
Be wary of these programs.

I did a BA/MD program out of HS and it was so accellerated, to cram everything in they cut too much out of the core sciences. (crammed orgo into a single semester, no physics, biochem II was meshed into some other course, etc.) By the time I was supposed to hit the upper level stuff, I had such a weak foundation, I would have been screwed.

I wound up leaving, getting my BA and hitting a post-bac program just to be able to reapply. And trust me, this is a skeleton in the closet that has made this go-round very tough.

Basically, I jumped into the program b/c I was too eager to get into medicine and not patient enough to do it the right way. Don't make that mistake. Research your programs.

I know it will be tough, we ll have to research the programs very carefully to see what each program specifically entails.

What program did you do? Are most of these programs on a sort of a pyramid system? Where they take in like 100people and only intend to accept 25 into the med school, fully aware that most of the 100 will drop out? Or do they accept around the number of people they intend to let into the med school?
 
Albany Medical College/Union College (8 years)
Baylor College of Medicine/Rice University (8 years)
Boston University (7 years)
Brown University PLME (8 years)
Drexel University (7 years)
George Washington University (7-8 years)
Howard University (6 years)
University of Southern California (8 years)
Northwestern University HPME (7 years)
Temple University (8 years)
University of Cincinnati (9 years)
University of Miami HPME (6 years)
University of Rochester (8 years)
Virginia Commonwealth University (8 years)

One of my friends in high school was accepted at several of these programs, including USC, BU and Drexel. He had a 4.0 GPA, 2350 SAT, clinical experience, leadership positions in my high school, and no research experience. Another student with a 3.9, 2150 SAT, but with research also was accepted to USC. The third student had a 3.6, took all AP science courses offered, volunteered and was accepted at Howard and Drexel.
 
Everyone I interviewed with for the Penn State / Jefferson Med program had high SAT's and GPA's... I had a 1600 with 800's in SAT II's, but that was pretty common among the group there, along with research projects, volunteering, shadowing, school leadership, etc. I got in, but chose ivy undergrad and the med schools I got into / I'm going to = a whole lot higher ranked (not that rankings are everything). I only knew about the Penn State and Albany programs when I was in high school. If I could do it over again, I would apply to the Rice/Baylor or Vanderbilt/Vanderbilt programs.
 
I know people at UMKC take 24 or 26 credits a semester yearlong for three years. By the time they finish they are burned out, and UMKC does not even have a particularly excellent match list. The sister of one of the debaters on my team entered the Brown program, but she eventually decided not to enroll in Brown's medical school, and instead took time off, reapplied, and currently goes to Pritzker.
 
Lifehouse said:
Albany Medical College/Union College (8 years)
Baylor College of Medicine/Rice University (8 years)
Boston University (7 years)
Brown University PLME (8 years)
Drexel University (7 years)
George Washington University (7-8 years)
Howard University (6 years)
University of Southern California (8 years)
Northwestern University HPME (7 years)
Temple University (8 years)
University of Cincinnati (9 years)
University of Miami HPME (6 years)
University of Rochester (8 years)
Virginia Commonwealth University (8 years)
If you are bright enough to get into one of these competitive, accelerated BA/MD programs, you are bright enough to probably get into a better med school that the ones offering any BA/MD of less than 8 years.

Even if someone is certain they are going to be a doctor (and at 18, odds are very good that plans will change), to get roped into a med school at that age is ridiculous IMHO. If someone is that driven, they can plan out their coursework at a University and apply after their junior year and avoid the glide year altogether, so there advantage of the combined program is minimal.

And again, if they're competivie to get into one of these accelerated programs, they can probably get into a better med school. And have a wide variety of choices that match their lifestyle for when they're going to med school, not what they thought they wanted at 18. Avoid.
 
I was in the IIT/CMS program, but that got closed. I also was accepted to Union/Albany.
 
I had friends at University of Miami in their program. It is supposed to be 6 years but many chose to take longer (and the shortest anyone I knew did 7) so they are not as stressed and don't need to take classes in the summer, etc. It is a nice program in that you don't have to go through all the application process and only need to score a 27 on the MCAT, but it has distinct disadvantages. The caliber of students they accept is high and the students I know could have easily got into better schools and not had to pay UM's high tuition for Med School. I think it is a great program from the school's perspective in that it holds down great students by playing on their fears that they cannot get in. Another is I think it is important to have fun and grow in college without already being pinned down. You will have a better idea of what you want from a school (location, style, specialties, etc) than coming from high school.

I know UM has a 7 year program that you apply into at the end of your freshman year so you can see if you like it more.
 
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prazmatic said:
I was in the IIT/CMS program, but that got closed. I also was accepted to Union/Albany.

word

me and praz were blood brothers

but I would recommend applying to the Northwestern HPME program (7 years).
Guaranteed admission to NU med school at the end of 3 years of undergrad...you can't beat that

But they also admit only around 45 kids from an applicant pool of students from all over the nation so it is tough as sh1t to get in. There are plenty of guaranteed programs all over the country. The list that the above poster posted is by no means comprehensive at all.

Google it.
 
MahlerROCKS said:
I know people at UMKC take 24 or 26 credits a semester yearlong for three years. By the time they finish they are burned out, and UMKC does not even have a particularly excellent match list.

I did this one.

BTW. So true about the matching. I would have been class of 2006. A number of my friends had to scramble-match and some completly failed to match so they have to do research and try again in 2007. These weren't dumb people either.
 
Depakote said:
I did this one.

BTW. So true about the matching. I would have been class of 2006. A number of my friends had to scramble-match and some completly failed to match so they have to do research and try again in 2007. These weren't dumb people either.


Do you have a link to their match list?
 
NRAI2001 said:
Hi

My little brother will be applying to colleges this coming year and he said he is interested in combined BS/MD programs. I dont really know much about any of these programs but I was wondering if there is some sort of list that has all the programs listed?

Also I was wondering what these programs look for in Highschool students who are applying to them? High SATs? Research (dont know many HS kids doing research)? College level course work? Clinical experience?

Anyone in/completed one of these programs?

I was accepted to one in Ohio (Northeastern Universities College of Medicine- NEOUCOM) as a senior in high school. however looking at the statistics for percentages completing the program. I withdrew. So many people in these programs do get too burnt out in the 2 years it takes to complete the BS. And who ever said they scrinp on the basics is correct. Besides, there is still a minimum score you have to get on the MCAT to continue with your education for most of these programs. Please make sure you take a good look at stats and passing rates. It's better to go to a school and get a good basic education and then apply to medical school than waste your time getting a half-a$$ed education.
 
NRAI2001 said:
Hi

My little brother will be applying to colleges this coming year and he said he is interested in combined BS/MD programs. I dont really know much about any of these programs but I was wondering if there is some sort of list that has all the programs listed?

Also I was wondering what these programs look for in Highschool students who are applying to them? High SATs? Research (dont know many HS kids doing research)? College level course work? Clinical experience?

Anyone in/completed one of these programs?

Well im in the Medical Scholars Program at the University of Miami (GOt in last week)...I think its great. I just finished my sophomore year and will be starting med school in 2007. I have to take the MCAT but dont need a minimum score and just need to maintain a 3.4 overall and 3.2 science. I want to do well and get a high mcat and gpa but its just less pressure...I would reccomend it.
 
I was in the 8 year program at USC (for the record it is private, not a UC school) and was recently accepted off the waitlist at Johns Hopkins and Yale. I could not be more happy about the 8 year program at USC. I would not recommend any advanced programs (6 or 7 years) and I can only speak to my experience and not all programs generally, but the 8year program at SC is absolutely amazing. For undergrad we are encouraged to study whatever we want, study abroad, have fun etc., not to mention we are hooked up with the best research profs, shadowing opportunities, volunteer organizations etc. They truly take care of us if you put in even the slightest effort, and there is very little external stress in the program. (plenty of people were stressed out constantly but it's only because we are highly motivated and highly self-critical people, not because of our involvement in the program).

The benefits are many and the downsides few. We have to take certain classes, and a couple of the requirements are more than the minimum for applying to some med schools, but it is basically the core sciences you would be taking anyways. For the first two years we also took a one unit class which for one semester was lectures by awesome docs and for 3 semesters was self-directed extracurriculars: volunteer, education, and research. Everyone had to do research -- some chose to really get into it and got published, others did humanities research i.e. made up their own book list for the semester and wrote a paper about what they read.

The transition to med school: if people wanted to go to USC then they filled out the AMCAS and that was it... no letters, no essays, no interview, no fee. Beautiful. Only a couple people took that route. We were allowed to apply out to other medical schools, and about half the people are leaving SC to go to other schools (NYU, WashU, Yale, UCLA, UMich to name a few) and about half got into other schools and decided they wanted to stay at USC.

About getting into the program: I interviewed incoming students (high school seniors) so I can tell you a bit about the process. Someone screens applicants, I don't who does this or what they look for, but I can say that everyone I interviewed had pretty impressive resumes and pretty good scores. However, that only gets your foot in the door. Some interviewers took the time to read the application, read the letters, read the transcripts, etc.... others didn't. So the interview is vitally important, and we can quickly tell if you will fit or not. There is not one single thing we look for... we want quality people, and that is measured in many different ways. Look elsewhere for advice.

The bottom line is, if you can get into an 8 year program that gives you the option to apply out I would DEFINITELY do it. Getting into med school is freakin hard and having the assurance that you are in somewhere is a big life saver while going through the terrible times of applications, interviews, and especially waitlists. Just make sure you like the school, because 8 years is a long time.
 
NRAI2001 said:
Hi

My little brother will be applying to colleges this coming year and he said he is interested in combined BS/MD programs. I dont really know much about any of these programs but I was wondering if there is some sort of list that has all the programs listed?

Also I was wondering what these programs look for in Highschool students who are applying to them? High SATs? Research (dont know many HS kids doing research)? College level course work? Clinical experience?

Anyone in/completed one of these programs?

I'm not in one, but I briefly looked at the one at UMKC (so I know there is one there). I have heard through the grapevine that unless you don't have any desire to have an undergraduate experience, combined programs are not for you since you don't get summers off and are essentially a medical student for 6 years. Personally, I wanted to have some time to enjoy myself and take classes that interest me outside of the sciences before submitting myself to medical school, and I'm really happy I made the choice to go undergrad.
 
BrianUM said:
Well im in the Medical Scholars Program at the University of Miami (GOt in last week)...I think its great. I just finished my sophomore year and will be starting med school in 2007. I have to take the MCAT but dont need a minimum score and just need to maintain a 3.4 overall and 3.2 science. I want to do well and get a high mcat and gpa but its just less pressure...I would reccomend it.

I am also in the Medical Scholars Program @ UM and I couldn't be more satisfied with my educational experience thus far. As the product of a dual degree program, I feel obliged to speak up in their defense. First of all, I don't think it's fair or accurate to characterize accelerated programs as exploitative, as an earlier post suggested. Although I'm confident that my application would have been competitive had I applied in the regular cycle (3.9+ GPA, 35+ MCAT, ECs that include research, leadership in premed organizations, and extensive clinical experience), having a guaranteed acceptance to medical school saved me countless hours of stress and aggravation. Nor am I convinced that any perceived lack of school prestige will doom my chances of establishing a thriving medical career. I also take exception to the assumption that BS/MD programs detrimentally curtail the scope of one's undergraduate education. Combined degree students at UM are free to pursue non-science majors, so long as the standard premedical requirements are fulfilled (I have a friend in the HPME who opted to major in Broadcast Journalism). For personal reasons (I'm a south FL native and the only child of older parents who are not in perfect health; it was always my hope to attend medical school in close proximity to the family, friends, and mentors who have been so instrumental in my academic and personal successes), the MSP was an ideal option for me.

One minor exception to BrianUM's post: Unless the program has been radically revamped since I was admitted, I'm fairly certain that minimum GPA and MCAT score requirements are in place for the MSP. According to the UMMSOM website, "To be promoted to the Miller School of Medicine, MSP students must have a cumulative GPA of at least 3.7, a science GPA of at least 3.7, and an MCAT composite score of at least 26." 'Hope that clears things up!

PS-I've been perusing the SDN forums for months, but this is my first official post. It's nice to finally emerge from the seedy underbelly of the lurker community ;o)
 
BuckyBallMD said:
I am also in the Medical Scholars Program @ UM and I couldn't be more satisfied with my educational experience thus far. As the product of a dual degree program, I feel obliged to speak up in their defense. First of all, I don't think it's fair or accurate to characterize accelerated programs as exploitative, as an earlier post suggested. Although I'm confident that my application would have been competitive had I applied in the regular cycle (3.9+ GPA, 35+ MCAT, ECs that include research, leadership in premed organizations, and extensive clinical experience), having a guaranteed acceptance to medical school saved me countless hours of stress and aggravation. Nor am I convinced that any perceived lack of school prestige will doom my chances of establishing a thriving medical career. I also take exception to the assumption that BS/MD programs detrimentally curtail the scope of one's undergraduate education. Combined degree students at UM are free to pursue non-science majors, so long as the standard premedical requirements are fulfilled (I have a friend in the HPME who opted to major in Broadcast Journalism). For personal reasons (I'm a south FL native and the only child of older parents who are not in perfect health; it was always my hope to attend medical school in close proximity to the family, friends, and mentors who have been so instrumental in my academic and personal successes), the MSP was an ideal option for me.

One minor exception to BrianUM's post: Unless the program has been radically revamped since I was admitted, I'm fairly certain that minimum GPA and MCAT score requirements are in place for the MSP. According to the UMMSOM website, "To be promoted to the Miller School of Medicine, MSP students must have a cumulative GPA of at least 3.7, a science GPA of at least 3.7, and an MCAT composite score of at least 26." 'Hope that clears things up!

PS-I've been perusing the SDN forums for months, but this is my first official post. It's nice to finally emerge from the seedy underbelly of the lurker community ;o)

Wow, I didn't know someone else from the MSP was here...were you just accepted?

I understand the website says you need to maintain a 3.7 overall and science plus a 26, but my acceptance letter stated that the requirements changed after I enrolled. I enrolled in 2004 and according to the letter the requirements I need to abide by are a 3.4 overall and 3.2 science, and I found out that I don't need a minimum MCAT score. I think if someone entered the school in 2006, the 3.7 min and 26 MCAT would apply.

Also, if you're in the Medical Scholars Program, feel free to join the MSP group on facebook, if you have one. I just started this group recently.

Cheers :)
 
BuckyBallMD said:
I am also in the Medical Scholars Program @ UM and I couldn't be more satisfied with my educational experience thus far. As the product of a dual degree program, I feel obliged to speak up in their defense. First of all, I don't think it's fair or accurate to characterize accelerated programs as exploitative, as an earlier post suggested. Although I'm confident that my application would have been competitive had I applied in the regular cycle (3.9+ GPA, 35+ MCAT, ECs that include research, leadership in premed organizations, and extensive clinical experience), having a guaranteed acceptance to medical school saved me countless hours of stress and aggravation. Nor am I convinced that any perceived lack of school prestige will doom my chances of establishing a thriving medical career. I also take exception to the assumption that BS/MD programs detrimentally curtail the scope of one's undergraduate education. Combined degree students at UM are free to pursue non-science majors, so long as the standard premedical requirements are fulfilled (I have a friend in the HPME who opted to major in Broadcast Journalism). For personal reasons (I'm a south FL native and the only child of older parents who are not in perfect health; it was always my hope to attend medical school in close proximity to the family, friends, and mentors who have been so instrumental in my academic and personal successes), the MSP was an ideal option for me.

One minor exception to BrianUM's post: Unless the program has been radically revamped since I was admitted, I'm fairly certain that minimum GPA and MCAT score requirements are in place for the MSP. According to the UMMSOM website, "To be promoted to the Miller School of Medicine, MSP students must have a cumulative GPA of at least 3.7, a science GPA of at least 3.7, and an MCAT composite score of at least 26." 'Hope that clears things up!

PS-I've been perusing the SDN forums for months, but this is my first official post. It's nice to finally emerge from the seedy underbelly of the lurker community ;o)

Another thing, Buckyball MD:

Right now I have only taken the pre-med pre-requisites: orgo, physics, bio, etc. Are there any courses at UM that you would reccomend so that when i get to med school I won't be lost. Should I take cell molec, physiology, biochem, etc? I'm also really confused as to how many credits I need to get in order to get my bachelors. Right now I have 88 credits but I don't know if I actually need to achieve 120 credits in 3 years to get the degree.

Thanks a lot!
 
If you want to get a REALLY early start, Baylor College of Medicine also has the Houston Premedical Academy. The first step is to attend the DeBakey High School for Health Professions, the top school in the Houston Independent School District in Texas. Up to ten students from the graduating class are chosen for the program. Students get full tuition scholarships to both the University of Houston and BCM. I just finished my third year in the eight year program. Since I had enough APs going in, I have had plenty of time to take electives and have a great college experience. Although accepted to both, I chose this program over the Rice/Baylor program mainly for the free med school. Granted, Rice University ranks much higher than the University of Houston, I feel my education is more than adequate.
 
"DeBakey High School for Health Professions"??? Oh god. So now instead of assuming Junior has a good handle on his life and how he is going to live it at age 18, he's going to do so at 14? So sad.
 
U. of Illinois (chicago campus) has one...their GPPA program...its not just for medicine though. i believe they have ones for Occupational therapy/nursing/pharmacy and other health fields.

their's isnt quite so structured as the 6 yr programs. I was in it briefly, but I wasnt focused and didnt maintain the minimum gpa they required (dah well, im' reapplying to the school again this cycle...).

they dont require you finish undergrad in a two years...they actually give you 3-5 yrs (when i was in it anyway) depending on how quickly or leisurely you want to go through undergrad. and then the standard 4 for medical school. there is a gpa minimum that must be maintained...and i heard they were instituting MCAT minimums...but you'd have to research to find out.
there were quite a few of us that were in it freshman year, but not many people made it all the way into the med school part.

i concur with what someone said earlier about some not being mature enough to make a decision like that...i know i wasnt...but i think for those students that are very focused and sure about their path there are a number of excellent programs to choose from. and with the mcat/gpa minimums many schools have, your brother should be able to apply competitively to other schools if he chooses that he doesnt want to attend med school at his undergraduate institution.
 
notdeadyet said:
"DeBakey High School for Health Professions"??? Oh god. So now instead of assuming Junior has a good handle on his life and how he is going to live it at age 18, he's going to do so at 14? So sad.

I didn't even know about the program when I entered the school, but after taking health science classes and doing preceptorships in the Texas Medical Center, I knew that I wanted to be a doctor. So whether or not I wanted to be a doctor, I would have to option to do so.
 
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