Combined PharmD/MD program

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fewaopi

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So Rutgers just started a new PharmD/MD dual degree program. Sounds kinda funny to me. Anyone have an opinion on this? Is this going to make someone a better pharmacist or doctor? Is it even practical?
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That sounds like it would be needlessly stressful. Would it just be your standard MD program with extra focus on pharmacology? Would the students have to suffer through dispensing courses, pharmacy law, and all of the other regulatory stuff that most of us hated which will have no practical use in their career as a physician?
 
gwarm01 said:
That sounds like it would be needlessly stressful. Would it just be your standard MD program with extra focus on pharmacology? Would the students have to suffer through dispensing courses, pharmacy law, and all of the other regulatory stuff that most of us hated which will have no practical use in their career as a physician?
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I would think that most of it could overlap. MDs should know the laws regarding prescriptions, as they are the ones writing them. Sure you see oxy with refills or written for a 2 month supply on occasion, but they are familiar with the laws. I really can't think of any class I took that would not benefit a physician. Even the classes everyone dreaded (healthcare economics, communications, practice management) would be useful if tailored to the audience.
 
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I don't see any reason for a standard doctor or pharmacist to go through a dual program. I would think people doing this program would be aspiring to a unique career (maybe industry?)
 
Ackj said:
I would think that most of it could overlap. MDs should know the laws regarding prescriptions, as they are the ones writing them. Sure you see oxy with refills or written for a 2 month supply on occasion, but they are familiar with the laws. I really can't think of any class I took that would not benefit a physician. Even the classes everyone dreaded (healthcare economics, communications, practice management) would be useful if tailored to the audience.
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Maybe you have a state law against that? I am not aware of any law against this.
 
if i were MD i would just delegate the part i didn't have as much knowledge on to the pharmacist...why do extra work? You won't get paid more if you have pharmD and MD...
 
gwarm01 said:
That sounds like it would be needlessly stressful. Would it just be your standard MD program with extra focus on pharmacology? Would the students have to suffer through dispensing courses, pharmacy law, and all of the other regulatory stuff that most of us hated which will have no practical use in their career as a physician?
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It's a 10 year program, the 6 year pharmacy program followed by 4 years of med school. So going to both schools and taking the full curriculums. They will have to go through all the courses. It's definitely a very long path. The news article seems to imply interdisciplinary healthcare policy as one potential field and integrating perspectives to have a more complete understanding of patient care. Also specifically states policy, research, and clinical settings in that order.
 
gwarm01 said:
Sounds like this enterprising school has thought of a unique way to fleece their students of even more money.
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I would think this too, but I don't think the class sizes of both pharmacy and medicine would be enlarged to accomodate the dual degree students. Rutgers would get 2 years of extra tuition compared if someone got a bachelors then an MD at rutgers (4+4). But I think it's more just for students who don't want to do pharmacy and are already too deep into the program they would lose too much if they withdraw. So an MD provides an escape route for those students who midway realize they don't want to do pharmacy. On the plus side, it means slightly less competition in an already saturated, impossible, job market so I guess no difference. That and there are many PharmDs who already obtained MDs separately, not sure what the advantage of this new program is, accept for a bit more cash and less application fees for the dual degree student.
 
Rutgers pharmacy is a 0-6 program, meaning that students are admitted largely based upon their SAT scores and high school GPA.

Is this new program essentially a 0-10 program for a medical degree, with students directly admitted from high school? Because we all know the mark of a good physician is his/her grades in physical education class and their verbal SAT score. 😕
 
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I won't hate on it, I think the more education the better. Although from a job standpoint I don't see how it would be practical, if you are practicing as an MD it would be unethical to prescribe and then dispense your own medications or compound them as a PharmD. A benefit may be that you may be more qualified to receive a director position of some kind if that's what you want since you are both an MD and a PharmD.
 
297point1 said:
Rutgers pharmacy is a 0-6 program, meaning that students are admitted largely based upon their SAT scores and high school GPA.

Is this new program essentially a 0-10 program for a medical degree, with students directly admitted from high school? Because we all know the mark of a good physician is his/her grades in physical education class and their verbal SAT score. 😕
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the pharmacy program is 0-6 and then you apply at the end of your 4th or 5th year to the medical school - there is no guarantee for admission so its not 0-10, more like 6+4 i guess

it isn't a terrible program honestly .. like someone had mentioned before, its for people who are late into their pharmd program and realized they would rather be an md. also you come into medical school with an incredibly strong background
 
The only benefit I see to this program is that you can work as a pharmacist part-time during the 4 years of the med school part of the program.

Argentium said:
the pharmacy program is 0-6 and then you apply at the end of your 4th or 5th year to the medical school - there is no guarantee for admission so its not 0-10, more like 6+4 i guess

it isn't a terrible program honestly .. like someone had mentioned before, its for people who are late into their pharmd program and realized they would rather be an md. also you come into medical school with an incredibly strong background
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In terms of physiology and pharmacology yes. But I know if I went to med school today, I'd probably struggle like crazy with anatomy and histology.
 
Sparda29 said:
The only benefit I see to this program is that you can work as a pharmacist part-time during the 4 years of the med school part of the program.

In terms of physiology and pharmacology yes. But I know if I went to med school today, I'd probably struggle like crazy with anatomy and histology.
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compared to what an undergrad who's taken bio, chem, physics, and orgo?

pharmacology, physiology, guidelines, protocols, evaluating literature, stats, counseling, working up a patient ... idk about you but i didnt know any of that as an undergrad
 
owlegrad said:
Maybe you have a state law against that? I am not aware of any law against this.
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Oh damn this isn't a federal law...? I guess just California? and maybe other states? Schedule 2 substances are not allowed to have refills here.
 
Now I'm just a student and havent had pharmacy law class yet but I thought scheduled 2 substances were only allowed to be prescribed for max 30 days...? in california?
 
pharmasaur said:
Now I'm just a student and havent had pharmacy law class yet but I thought scheduled 2 substances were only allowed to be prescribed for max 30 days...? in california?
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90d
 
Probably so they can serve their students. If no job as PharmD become an MD. PharmDs will also be better prepared, theoretically. School also get more money from the extra years of course
 
This is an interesting program but as someone pointed out, it doesn't add anything to your earning potential as a physician. With that being said, having gone through pharmacy school and part of medical school, having extra background doesn't hurt. It actually has allowed me to understand pharmacology much better and make connections that others don't see having a more comprehensive background. Worth the extra +$100k in debt? The jury is still out on that.

:laugh:
 
"Historically, there has been a precedent for the pharmacy school’s alumni opting to continue their training at medical school, including Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Barone notes."
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Sounds like a way to romanticize the fact that they accept high school kids with no clue about the profession.
 
Would the individual practice pharmacy with knowledge of medicine? In order to practice medicine they would need to complete a residency. I would assume it would be as general practioner.
 
are you sure this is a real thing? this sounds unnecessary. A PharmD and MD have totally different roles, it's not like getting a masters or PHD where you can simultaneously use both degrees.
 
This doesn't make sense... if I had both PharmD and MD, I'd probably still work as an MD. I don't see how I'd get paid more if I had a few more letters at the end of my name.

Although I guess I could pick up part time shifts at WAGs. I bet my wife would find that interesting that I work where she works.
 
pinipig523 said:
This doesn't make sense... if I had both PharmD and MD, I'd probably still work as an MD. I don't see how I'd get paid more if I had a few more letters at the end of my name.

Although I guess I could pick up part time shifts at WAGs. I bet my wife would find that interesting that I work where she works.
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I agree. You could just pick some random shifts at a wags where you would be working alone most of the time with no tech, ringing customers and doing drive thru. Just kidding. I don't see the scenario where that would happen.
 
pinipig523 said:
This doesn't make sense... if I had both PharmD and MD, I'd probably still work as an MD. I don't see how I'd get paid more if I had a few more letters at the end of my name.

Although I guess I could pick up part time shifts at WAGs. I bet my wife would find that interesting that I work where she works.
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ancienbon said:
I agree. You could just pick some random shifts at a wags where you would be working alone most of the time with no tech, ringing customers and doing drive thru. Just kidding. I don't see the scenario where that would happen.
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But moonlighting as a doctor (MD/DO) pays more than picking up random shifts at a retail pharmacy. The going rate for moonlighters around my area is $100-$150/hr, and that's with malpractice + tail already included. And that's if you moonlight as a W2 employee. A friend of mine is a 1099 employee and gets paid $175-$200/hr for 12 hrs shifts as a hospitalist when he moonlights. Some of my radiology friends moonlight at an outpatient radiology office, where they get paid $60/hr to be physically in the building in case something happens to a patient. They just sit there for 4hrs in the evening studying, surfing the internet, or watching TV. Not sure what the going rate for moonlighting in the ER would be (for an ABEM certified physician) but my guess would be more than what a pharmacist would make (for same amount of hours)
 
BidingMyTime said:
I don't see any reason for a standard doctor or pharmacist to go through a dual program. I would think people doing this program would be aspiring to a unique career (maybe industry?)
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Seems like industry would be the way to go. It's definitely a setting where you want as many letters behind your name as possible.
 
Kind of fascinating that more than one school is offering this program-the way I see it, there is really no point. a PharmD implies a parcticing pharmacist which you cannot do whilst being a medical doctor. If it is for the drug information and knowledge, I can't imagine why not a BS in pharmacy sciences/MD combined program, unless research, but even then, an MD/PhD program in pharmacology or something would seem to make greater sense. It almost seems like they're preparing the doctor for a role in answering his own drug info questions which would throw a pharmacist's in the dumps lol. I can *kinda* see the PA/PharmD thing bc some people probably want a greater clinical role in pharmacy and I think a PA degree could maybe accomplish that.

I was wondering why there aren't more PharmD/nutrition programs. I would personally consider this route as I see treatment and prevention to be holistic involving both food, exercise, and diet considerations.
 
samisab786 said:
Kind of fascinating that more than one school is offering this program-the way I see it, there is really no point. a PharmD implies a parcticing pharmacist which you cannot do whilst being a medical doctor. If it is for the drug information and knowledge, I can't imagine why not a BS in pharmacy sciences/MD combined program, unless research, but even then, an MD/PhD program in pharmacology or something would seem to make greater sense. It almost seems like they're preparing the doctor for a role in answering his own drug info questions which would throw a pharmacist's in the dumps lol. I can *kinda* see the PA/PharmD thing bc some people probably want a greater clinical role in pharmacy and I think a PA degree could maybe accomplish that.

I was wondering why there aren't more PharmD/nutrition programs. I would personally consider this route as I see treatment and prevention to be holistic involving both food, exercise, and diet considerations.
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I think the U.W. program is intended to allow for better health care access in rural/poor communities, as well.
 
A lot of what's being said about this combined program is EXACTLY what I imagine was said about MD/PhD and MD/JD programs back in the day.

Besides a gig in Pharma, this dual degree is probably VERY appealing to an agency like the FDA.
 
Just another way to get more tuition dollars from students...

But this duality seems like it has great utility in FDA and pharma. What does this mean for PharmD's trying to get into pharma? Start building backup plans so you aren't disappointed!! :wideyed:
 
Rockinacoustic said:
Sounds like a way to romanticize the fact that they accept high school kids with no clue about the profession.
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Totally agree. This should be a sign that they need to completely re-evaluate how they accept students (and in my opinion DITCH the 0-6, that ship needs to sail and asap) so that they aren't accepting students who don't want to be pharmacists.
 
pharmD/PA kinda make sense to me. However, pharmD/MD? you will spend at least 10+ years in schools but no extra wages. why would you do that?
 
kaidou1412 said:
pharmD/PA kinda make sense to me. However, pharmD/MD? you will spend at least 10+ years in schools but no extra wages. why would you do that?
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Not sure that PharmD/PA makes much sense to me. Maybe it would help a clinical pharmacist to be more "clinical-y," Or perhaps one could teach pharmacy classes at a PA program. But it seems like moonlighting is the only real advantage IMO.
 
Maybe PharmD/PA is a way to shoot for a solid RPh salary while working in a clinic with NP/PA staff.
 
"What does this mean for PharmD's trying to get into pharma? Start building backup plans so you aren't disappointed!! "

Or complete a PharmD/PhD? Having worked in Pharma, I'm certain this educational goal would be appealing.

Dual degrees seem to be the wave of the future for folks who want to have that extra career edge. These days anyone that isn't thinking with career flexibility in mind may be sorely disappointed.
 
You don't need a MD/PharmD to work in Pharma. Most of the reps do not have a professional degree. You can work as a medical liaison for Pharma answering clinical questions.

Career flexibility is certainly something that one has to consider in this more competitive environment.
 
You guys are all idiots. This dual program is not meant for you people. It's meant for someone who obviously wants the flexibility and training from both curriculum. I'm sure most people won't even get into this program and those that apply, probably only a handful are accepted.
 
Given what I'm learning about the Pharmacy profession everyday, I think EVERY PharmD student should give this program some serious thought.
 
Lnsean said:
You guys are all idiots. This dual program is not meant for you people. It's meant for someone who obviously wants the flexibility and training from both curriculum. I'm sure most people won't even get into this program and those that apply, probably only a handful are accepted.
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That flexibility and training isn't need to be successful in either field. It's extra training for extra tuition. Why would any MD moonlight as a pharmacist for half the salary? It doesn't make sense.
 
Does anyone know a PharmD/MD looking for a job?

"Nuff said.😉
 
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